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JimR

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About JimR

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  1. hey calling me stupid is a bit much. But I can see I am too dumb for this group. Sorry to have bothered y'all.
  2. Salyan, i understand. The consensus is clear and the reasons for it. But somehow I doubt Cornelius and the folks in other house churches had big water tanks or even a bathtub big enough to lie down in. Something is going to stick up out of the water, which violates your full-immersion requirement.
  3. DaveW, You wrote: There is ABSOLUTELY no biblical instruction nor example of this. How does this show the death of Christ? On the other hand, the procedure of laying people backwards one time into water is tradition. The NT does not specifically state how it should be done. I think it symbolizes the death of Christ if you have to hold your breath to avoid getting a lung-full. The NT says we should baptize/dip/immerse in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Acts 10:48 says "in the name of the Lord"). The specifics of the procedure are based on tradition and might be influenced by the situation. When you are baptizing 3000 people and a river is nearby, then go for it. Notice in Acts 10:47-48 Cornelius et al were baptized with water in his house. Full-body immersion backwards in a large container is not specified. 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
  4. Some weeds end up mixed with the wheat. That cannot be helped. If i was going to baptize/dip/immerse someone, i would want them to get down on their knees in front of tub filled with water, Their heads would be submerged three times, once in each name. When that was over, they would definitely feel like they had died and rose again. Maybe folks who were less sincere would not be willing to submit to a triple dunk. My German Dunker forbears did it three times forward,
  5. Scott, i am glad i am not the person who is responsible for discerning when someone is truly ready for baptism. Regarding average age, i realize many of those baptized when they are older still drift away, concluding their conversion was just a delusion. Maybe everyone who expresses faith and the desire to be baptized should be dunked asap. Jesus will sort them out at the appropriate time. If he says he never knew them, then that’s that.
  6. Sorry, Scott. I gave you the wrong impression. I agree with you that evidence of a changed life is not necessary for baptism. I only asked you about it because this week i listened to an IFB sermon that said that. I did not say exceptional kids who have true faith should not be baptized. I just noted the average age is declining and pointed out that some who were baptized young later decided it was not valid because they did not understand and were going along due to peer pressure. This makes me worry that the trend is not good. The difference between baptists and others is shrinking. Romans 10:9 works for me: that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Philip baptized the Ethiopian straightaway after he believed. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward change. I hope those scriptures are sufficient foundation for my position.
  7. A history of anti-pedobaptism : from the rise of pepdobaptism to A.D. 1609 / Title: A history of anti-pedobaptism : from the rise of pepdobaptism to A.D. 1609 / Author: Newman, Albert Henry, 1852-1933 Note: Philadelphia : American Baptist Publication Society, 1902, c1896 Link: page images at HathiTrust http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupid?key=ha100109721 A free version of This baptist history book is available on google play. It seemed pretty interesting to me when i read it several years ago. From the title I suspect the author, if he was alive today, might say that if the person baptized is still seeing a pediatrician, its pedobaptism.
  8. Scott, do you baptize solely on profession of faith? Or do you insist on some education first and evidence of a changed life?
  9. Scott, I am not questioning any individual case, but instead the declining average age. If a person is not old enough to get married, serve in the military or vote, they might not be old enough to choose Christ. Baptist church distinctives call for a membership limited to believers. Also, those members vote on church issues. Maybe I do not understand how this stuff works. No doubt i am stepping on some toes with this issue. However, i am not trying to offend, just to reconcile the declining average age of baptism with what I thought was distinctive about baptists.
  10. An article found in the Gospel Coalition site reported that two hundred years ago no baptist church would baptize anyone younger than 18. Ages have declined steadily and now kids as young as eight or ten are being baptized. We have all heard stories about adults who said their childhood baptisms had more to do with peer pressure than actual conversion and they did not consider them to be valid. Yet the practice continues. Kids are not becoming emotionally mature at younger ages; just the opposite. Many are childish while in college. When ten-year-olds are baptized in baptist churches, we must conclude that the difference between catholic churches and baptist churches is only 10 (10 minus zero is 10). This is not much of a difference and while i understand that an exceptional child might be able to make a serious informed commitment at a young age, most cannot. This is disturbing. Presbyterians, like Baptists, do not believe baptism saves, but they go ahead and baptize babies anyway, then later they give the kids a confirmation class and have them standup in front of the church. They get the process done backwards but they get it done. Is this any worse than baptizing a ten year old? Some Grace dispensationalists say that Paul stopped baptizing after he stopped going to the Jews and the gentile church does not need to do that anymore. Honestly, I would be more comfortable in a church that does not baptize at all than in one that baptizes babies or small children. Sorry for the long post but I am curious as to what others will say about child baptisms and the declining age of baptism.
  11. Today i listened to a baptist sermon from Oak Creek WI. Pretty sure the preacher was saying that being born again is an experience that you should be able to remember. Perhaps not the exact day but likely the year and the place. If so, then that sounds like more than “scripture alone.” If becoming a saved Christian requires an experience, then this is “scripture +”. He also said a changed lifestyle is necessary to show the person really has converted. For that reason, he wants both a testimony and a delay as well as catechism prior to baptism and acceptance into church membership. I wonder how many Independent baptist pastors would agree. Can every saved Christian recall a conversion experience? And how long do you want to wait before you baptize?
  12. Ukelelmike, Another issue is declining literacy. I teach grad students online and can attest that degree inflation along with the digital culture has greatly reduced reading comprehension. People cannot read, understand or remember even one page of instructions. How then can they be expected to read and comprehend the bible? Attention spans, including my own, have shortened. People need preaching more than ever but preachers must learn to keep it short.
  13. Many of the first Christians would not have known about Christ from scripture. The average gentile would not have been intimately familiar with Hebrew scripture. They might have been illiterate. They learned about Christ from a preacher. Paul asked, how will they know if someone does not tell them? After hearing and believing, the indwelling Holy Spirit helped them understand. Maybe we should say the truth is found in scripture and accurate preaching is based on scripture but reading scripture is not the only way to reach truth. Scripture- based preaching is reinforced by the Spirit.
  14. JimR

    Amish?

    Are Amish and old order mennonites all rigidly living the same lifestyle? It might look that way from the outside but I don’t think so. Amish bicycles can be found hidden behind a bar. The young people have been known to leave home in proper clothes then change later. History books report that when starting a new farm, the Amish would quickly make a moonshine still. Amish weddings sometimes have a unofficial drinking location. And everyone has heard about bundling, i assume. Girls got pregnant. So, Amish are people like everyone else. But when they get in trouble they standup in church and confess. The community helps. Old Overholt rye whisky was started by a Mennonite. the first reason for primitive lifestyle is to avoid contamination by a fallen world. another reason back in Europe was persecution. Might as well make a virtue out of necessity. Now it is tradition and also separation from the world.
  15. Salyan, Sorry if i misquoted you. Regarding Poor Lazarus, i still sense some poetic license was used. Why do they have bodies? How can they talk to each other across a Chasm?

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