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Posts posted by Disciple.Luke

  1. 16 hours ago, SureWord said:

    It seems to me that the overemphasis on the love of God and the meekness of Christ in preaching and theology over the last 60 years has contributed to the mess we are in now.

    Well said and I could not agree with you more! I've noticed this problem in probably 95% of the churches I've ever been in. This is exactly what I was emphasizing in a different thread a few days back when I mentioned that Christians should be cautious of trying to be MORE forgiving than Jesus on issues related to sins. I've have become increasingly frustrated with people taking verses out of context like Matthew 7:1 implying that Christians can never make any kind of moral judgement or stand.

  2. 7 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

    I agree that security should be beefed up there. The only problem is that most of these missionary run schools don't have the funds to pay private securtiy. It seems to me that knowing the risks, they would make more of an effort to make sure that some kind of security is there and strengthened past the minimums.

    Good point. I wasn't really looking at it from the view of the missionaries themselves as much as I was the Nigerian government.  I had to look up the Nigerian President on Wikipedia and he sounds as worthless as most elected officials in Africa. He apparently supports sharia  law in Northern Nigeria but went to war with Boko Haram (Probably only because they were a threat to him). I always believed Nigeria was well balanced with Muslims and Christian relations compared to most of Africa but it seems I was mistaking.

  3. 22 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

    Praise the Lord! 28 Baptist school students who had been abducted in Nigeria have been freed!


    I was reading this same story on the Christianity Today website and they mentioned that Nigeria is the 9th most dangerous country for Christians.

    It's unbelievable that they can't find ways to prevent many of these incidents when it comes to children.

    I suppose no security is fool proof but I cant even get into my son's Private Baptist school without pressing a button for them to see who is at the door and get let inside. 

    If any children are under threat there they need to at least provide security that is armed better than the kidnappers. 🤔

  4. 6 hours ago, Salyan said:

    Okay, very off topic! No mark discussions... back to the OP!

    The question was much easier with the focus on COVID, because the larger vaccination question is so much more complicated.

    I can tell you for sure that you will never see me post anything on here attempting to identify the "mark" like Hal Lindsey and Van Impe.(That comment isn't a jab at you SureWord...I'm talking about people who play "pin the tail" on the antichrist and the mark and are always wrong)

    I suppose  my answer would be similar as my view of the covid vaccine - that you could make a case either way on which position to take. 

    I personally would fall somewhere in middle. As a father I know how many vaccines my kids have had to have to just attend school and for the most part I see them as a positive thing. On the other hand if mysterious viruses continue to seemingly come out of nowhere and I continue to see ads on TV and YouTube practically begging the unvaccinated to join the others like a marketing scheme I will become suspicious and hesitant to just do what "most" people are doing.

    The issue for me is a very grey area and my reaction to the government forcing vaccines on the public would vary depending on the situation and what it's for. I would do what I felt was right and biblical over a man made government any day.

  5. 1 minute ago, BrotherTony said:

    And as I tell everyone else,brother, if you feel you need the vaccination, go ahead and get it. I don't want anyone who feels they need it to NOT get it. I've not got any problem with people in my family who have gotten the vaccines, but they have problems with our decision to decline. It's shameful how many people have swallowed the government Kool-Aid and are still living in fear. They haven't done heir due-diligence and looked at the true numbers of recovery, deaths, and alleged deaths with covid as a possibiity...and that's just what most of the reported deaths w/covid  are...possibilities. There's been an abuse by the medical establishment in reporting deaths with covid as a secondary or tertiary issue. We have had experience with that in our family...a death having covid listed as a contributing factor when it couldn't have been, as the person had just had covid and had just been released as clear of the virus.


    There is an older couple at church who have been going around telling other members or emailing saying NOT to get the vaccine. That is going a little too far in my opinion. If someone asks their advice about why they have chosen to not get it then by all means explain.

    I haven't been vaccinated but I almost never bring up my decision unless it's in context of discussion because it's such a personal decision.

    I am friends with a Muslim girl in Sudan and even there many people are refusing to take the vaccine because they're just as suspicious of the vaccine as we are. 

  6. I have never posted about anything political on here but this is such a huge topic and I've seen personally how the Body is dividing over it. 

    I personally have not chosen to get vaccinated yet because something about it makes me feel very uncomfortable.

    If the government demanded it I would probably do as they asked but I would also support those who would refuse. I just don't feel like it's the governments place to force things like this even if it involves our lives. I don't see it as much difference as telling the Snake Handlers Christians that why can't do something dangerous as an act of faith. I also don't believe the government should make Jehovah's witnesses get blood transfusions even if their lives depended on it (except for maybe when it comes to a minor) and also for Christians who refuse to join the military and participate in war.

  7. I started out using Mark Cahills tracts. They are rather lengthy and well made but they are meant to really help break down the Gospel. They are more like small booklets.

    I've talked to Mark through email and he told me he was IFB and always uses the KJV. He gives a lot of talks on soulwinning and has written books on the importance of it. My favorite book of his is "The One Thing You Can't Do In Heaven" which is save the lost so making it a priority during our lifetimes.

    Mark is probably most famous because of his friendship with Charles Barkley who he played college basketball with and his attempts to share the gospel with people like Micheal Jordan (who rejected it)and whoever crosses his path. Mark tells a story in the book I mentioned above about how Charles Barkley's brother flatlined  and during the time he was dead he says his body went to a place that could only be described as hell before he was brought back to life. Mark tried to use that experience to try to get him saved but even then he refused Jesus.


  8. 5 minutes ago, SureWord said:

    Copeland cracks me up. I know I should be upset by how he's a deceiver but he's so bonkers I feel anyone who is deceived by him wants to be. The Copeland "mashups" on YouTube are hilarious. I know, I guess I'm carnal in these matters but sometimes you just have to sit back and laugh at these nut cases.

    Oh I completely agree. I occasionally watch YouTube videos of these guys for entertainment purposes. The compilations they've done on Jim Bakker and his guest's are beyond normal and hilarious watching him trying to sell those food buckets for thousands of dollars. 

    Copeland and hIs crew are on a different level. Between him, his wife, and Billy Bryne (spelling?)...I can't stand to watch them for more than ten minutes.

  9. It seems like most church growth here is mostly from people switching churches. I see people go up to get prayed for after the sermon but it doesn't seem like many get saved that way. 

    We do have a lot of baptisms and people getting saved because of K-12 school that is a ministry of the church and literally attached to it. The teachers must have academic credentials and be a member in good standing at the church. The salvation of the kids that attend there is just as high of a priority as the education, and the church is used for many school activities to show the kids the relationship between the two. Sometimes the parents will get saved as well as a result of the child's decision.

  10. 2 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

    We have several in our family that listen to Osteen and his wife. They are saved, but they're not very active in church or in anything that has to do with spreading the Word. I appreciate that they like to have some "motivational" messages, but to just totally disregard the whole counsel of God for expediencies sake is detrimental to the Kingdom. Churches are disappearing or turning aside at alarming rates, and people like the Osteens are part of the reason. Christians today are doing just as the Bible said, looking for someone to "tickle their ears" with pleasant messsages and worldly music. It's time for a revival.

    We have a Disciples of Christ congregation here whose Pastor is a openly gay and married homosexual but when I their "advertisements" they come off as very traditional in belief. That congregation is growing and has influence with the city officials and the "elite" business people. 

    Where I live was the headquarters for the Wesleyan Holiness denomination Church of God and where their main university is. They started out very conservative but have shift mostly to progressive or social gospel.

    The church of Gods most prominent members are the Gaithers and Sandy Patty. I know they are not pastors or teachers but they still have influence...Bill and Gloria Gaither and Sandy Patty.

    As far as televangelists Kenneth Copeland bothers me more than even Joel. It's no wonder people hate our faith so much when all they see are money diggers like Copeland, Duplantis, Dollar, and the rest of them.

  11. On 7/22/2021 at 10:36 AM, BrotherTony said:

    To be honest, many years back I used to listen to John Hagee, Steven Furtick, and a myriad of other preachers. But, the more I listened to several of them, the more I had to start drawing back from them, finally not listening to them at all. Hagee made many a claim that was anti-scriptural, one of them right in the above clip. Joel Osteen, whom I have never been fond of, is listened to by several in my family. I've pointed out time and again the heretical statements and his lack of a true witness for the Lord Jesus Christ, and I have been rebuffed several times. Uff dah! 

    Yes Joel Osteen is very misleading to biblically illiterate people. 

    The mindset he uses by insisting that it's better to talk about good instead sin is absurd, and one of the main reasons many local churches are losing members rapidly. If church is just a weekly feel good seminar than there's no reason you can't just stay home and watch Joel.

    Several years ago there was church here that was very popular with people my age. One friend invited me to attend describing it as a "feel good seminar for the week with rock music". Of course I declined the invitation because that's not what I would consider a biblical church.

    Never talking about sin is dangerous. Why would anyone feel the need to get saved if they keep hearing that God loves them just who they are? I think Pastors need to be cautious about be MORE forgiving than Jesus was. If people in the pews aren't feeling even slightly uncomfortable for serious sins because you don't want to offend anyone...then you are in the wrong profession. Every liberal "Christian" wants to try to overlook sin by claiming we are the type of people who would throw the first stone at the woman caught in adultery, but even after Jesus forgave her....they like to ignore that he told her to "go and sin no more".

  12. Thanks for posting this!

    Justin Peters has several videos exposing these frauds for what they really are.

    My aunts and uncles were raised believing they are Baptist, but don't have a clue what it means to be one. They don't attend church or read their bibles but are always sharing some "inspirational"  quote on Facebook by one of those false teachers.

    It is very disheartening to know so many claiming to be Christian can support any of these people. 

  13. i honestly never felt like street preaching where I live would be effective in my area.

    I have a!ways preferred conversations over presentations when witnessing to someone, but I would use tracts mostly to give them towards the end of the conversation hoping maybe they would give it some thought later on.

    Ive encountered many people who will willingly engage in a spiritual conversation but refuse to take the tract for some reason. 

    Then there have been a few times that I would just hand people tracts with less discussion which at times I would just find them thrown on the ground or in the trash nearby.

    When our previous Pastor was shepherding our congregation we had access to  The Exchange tracts by Jeff Musgrave (from BJU) and along with the tracts we had all the study book series available for us to use if we found someone who got saved. This equiped us to be able to immediately do discipleship lessons with the new believer.

    Our new Pastor recently made it a priority to have our own tracts with our specific information on them. I haven't had a chance to look at many of them to see who authored or printed the new ones but I will definitely look Sunday and see.


  14. On 7/15/2021 at 9:40 AM, BrotherTony said:

    I have witnessed to my birth father and stepmother several times over the years, but they have asked me to NOT present the Gospel to them again unless they bring the subject up. This is an uncomfortable situation for me, as I still try to present the Gospel to them in the way I live my life in front of them anyhow. I don't discuss the Lord with them unless one of them brings the subject up. So, how would YOU handle this situation? 

    I will be visiting my birth father and stepmother for a few hours on Friday, and I plan to once again ask my father about his belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. He has brought the subject up several times over the past few months, and this past Sunday morning he called me because he believes he is very close to death. The doctos say he could go at any time. Am I doing the right thing? I feel that the Lord is leading me to speak to him again, as this may be the last time I get to see him and speak to him face to face. 

    Thank you in advance for your answers.

    Brother Tony like probably most people on here I can certainly relate to your situation.

    My father and younger brother both seem to have no interest in salvation whatsoever. When my mother and laws brother died to my surprise my father called me. This is a man who isn't good  at showing emotion or expressing feelings but on this night he was hurt and looking for a reason these terrible things happen.

    That was the only chance I've ever had to talk about Jesus with him and his mind was open hoping my faith could make sense of a tragic death. I embraced the moment and shared the Gospel without holding anything back. His heart was being pricked for answers and I tried my best to answer them biblically.

    I don't know if that night had any spiritual effect on my father because like I said he just doesn't discuss things like that. He's getting up there in age and pray with all my heart that at some point he has surrendered his life to our Lord and Savior.

    While my father would probably fall into the agnostic category my brother and his wife consider themselves Pagan followers of the Norse God Odin. My brothers Facebook profile picture says "I'd rather be a wolf of Odin than a Lamb of God". Despite my brothers beliefs he has never been hostile towards mine but his wife made it very clear to me once that "my Christian God" wasn't welcome in their home. My brother and I hardly see each just from being busy with life but it makes it nearly impossible to talk about the Lord when his wife is there to counteract. My brother has always been my best friend and we were closer than most siblings could imagine so it breaks my heart to not be able to reach him with the Gospel.

    My mother used to attend church many years ago but it was a Church of God (Anderson, IN.) congregation that is Wesley- Arminian in theology and do a poor job at presenting the Gospel because their beliefs have slowly allowed progressive and social theology drastically change the message they started out with. I have never seen my mother pray or even read the Bible...not once. She doesn't talk about her faith but when she does her beliefs are not biblical or severely distorted. The problem with talking about the Gospel with her is that she thinks she already knows everything and as long as she's a "good person" heaven awaits.

    I wish I could help by giving you advice about talking to your family but I unfortunately have the same problem myself. It's easier for me to walk up to complete stranger and start a conversation to purposely be a able share the Gospel, but my family just refuses to talk about or in mom's case has made up her own view of the bible and not open to other interpretation.

  15. 2 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

    If any posted opinion is wrong, like bbs now for long time,  should it not be stated ?  (so others don't believe it)

    I did not post any reply as if to argue with you about anything, nor to debate,  in this thread .

    In several threads I've noticed your posts come across as argumentative, and that's the impression I've got just from interacting with you here. It certainly felt like a debate after you suggested that I am spreading false information that needed to be confronted.

  16. 37 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

    If any posted opinion is wrong, like bbs now for long time,  should it not be stated ?  (so others don't believe it)

    I did not post any reply as if to argue with you about anything, nor to debate,  in this thread .

    Every thread on this board is full of people's opinions and in most cases good points can be argued for differing views so there's no point of debating. Unless the person opinion is complete blasphemy and without merit the one person's opinion of another is just that - a personal opinion.

    53 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

    Good.  It doesn't matter even what your opinion is - it holds no weight.  Same with my opinion too.

    Only Scripture.

    Even if a group does not deny the resurrection of Jesus,  they could and many are still part of the largest false gospel in the world.  Billions claim to be "Christian",  but never were, and never will be, and they may not find out until judgment day, as the Bible says clearly.

    You specifically targetted jws,  which is in fact and in truth a well known false gospel / cult/ deceiving many.

    Since so many other groups do likewise,  I was just inquiring if there was a reason why jws were the object of your post so 'emphatically' (if that is the right word).

    You are aware,  I thought and still think, that the largest false gospel perpetrators ever is the one started by and with constantine around or alittle after 300 a.d., right ?   Compared to that monster/beast,  nothing is near as dangerous to us today, or to souls for the last 1700 years.


    I am not a fan of Constitatine either but I know many Christians who believe he was a sincere believer. And I don't disagree that Roman Catholicism has been a disgrace to the name of Christ and Pope Francis still continues down that path.

    There are too many false teachings and groups to mention in a single post and I chose to specifically speak on JWs because in the original post that you took issue with I was replying specifically to SureWords post where he mentioned both JWs and LDS. 

  17. 3 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:


    Note that refusing blood transfusions is not necessarily a sin at all.   

    Among pagans/ the world/  it is nothing since they reject the one who died for them - compared to that ,  nothing matters.

    As for as suicide,  if they get saved, and immersed in Jesus' Name  they won't commit suicide,  though their family and church will kick them out.  This is true of practially all groups, catholic, protestant and secular.

    The endless allegations?    Why specific jws?    The Bible says ALL society is death dealing.  Not just jws.

    Specifically?  Why specifically ?   Generally,  every group not in Christ Jesus is a false Gospel - anti-Christ,  "instead of " Christ.

    Like I said in my previous post I have no desire to argue or debate over a post where I explained my own opinion and why.

    You keep bringing up things that having nothing to do with the comment in my post. I was talking specifically about groups that impose works and deny the bodily resurrection of Christ but claim to be "Christian".

    And I asked specifically who were talking about just so I could understand your position better. 

  18. 26 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

    They are strongly disciplined and apparently believe a lot of error,  and avoid the truth as much as possible ,  though they end in destruction.

    However,  (I haven't checked),  did they slaughter millions of souls like the roman catholic groups did ?

    Even the protestants warred and fought and killed "in the name of Christ",  without God directing them (the devil did it).

    The jws aren't any more saved if they did not kill others,  but what I noticed was you choice of words "more than" - if as it happens and happened, so many other groups slaughtered millions because of the false Gospel those groups were part of,  would you still think the jws are "more" teaching and believing a false Gospel .

    Admittedly,  one by one, or more, as we discover the enormity of the practices and errors and adherence and faith in and to the false Gospel(s), 

    each and every time we are more distressed,  full of sorrow and acquainted with grief as our Savior Jesus is,   seeing thousands on our right hand and tens of thousands on our left hand falling,  without hope for their souls ,  billions worldwide beyond our ken.

    The Jehovah's witnesses may not be violent killers but they still have blood on their hands. An unknown amount members and their children have died from rejecting blood transfusions to please the "Watchtower". Who knows how many JWs have committed suicide because their family disfellowshiped them. Also the endless allegations of child abuse and rape keep coming out.

    When I said "more than" I was referring to their rejecting the basics of a false gospel by emphasizing endless works on members AND complete denial of the literal bodily resurrection of Christ.

    I suppose the "ecumenical world church" could have a just a dangerous false gospel as the JWs but I still have no idea who you are specifically referring to.

    Also in that post I was just giving my personal opinion NOT making a definitive claim. I wasn't looking to debate or argue anything. 

  19. 4 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

    I did an internet search decades ago of ecumenical world church.  There's a lot that publically joined the roman abomination in its quest for worldwide control.

    I will Google "ecumenical world church" because I'm still not sure what groups you are referring to.

    My opinion about the Jehovah's witnesses was based on the false gospel qualifiers that SureWord correctly mentioned in his post.


    On 7/12/2021 at 9:36 AM, SureWord said:

    "Another gospel" in the context Paul used it was the Judaizers adding working to salvation and trying to bring believers back under the law. This could apply to the papacy also.

    In Corinthians the "other gospel" was that Jesus didn't bodily rise from the dead so that would "not God but a good teacher" scenario you hear in liberal churches.

    The LDS church checks both boxes though they have Jesus rising from the dead he is an angel in their teachings.

    Also, false gospels can be brought by an angel according to Paul. That would check another box with the Mormons as they have an angel bringing "another gospel" to Joe Smith.




  20. 1 hour ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

    The ecumenical world church stands out vastly more numerous than the jws,  and immensely more dangerous as the ecu world church has power over billions of people.

    By ecumenical work church are you referring to mainline protestants?

  21. I must admit that I am not familiar with the other 37 versions of the Quran, but if they exist I would love to be able to understand what exactly is different. I wonder if they are clerical punctuation errors or if they include contradictory "revelations" compared to the common text of today. If there are major theological implications I am surprised that Islamic sects like the Ahmadiyyas, Shia, Sufis, and even the Baha'i scholars have not searched these others versions out looking for differences that would support the validity of their beliefs over Sunni Islam.

    As far as an apologetic issue I personally wouldn't put too much weight behind these various versions to discredit the Quran and convert Muslims. The current accepted text of the Quran is already as false as any other version in my opinion and Muslims still largely believe it is divinely inspired. I feel like the average Muslim would completely dismiss the idea of there being other versions or would just see them as a fabrication produced by anti Muslims. If these other versions exist then I have no doubt that the Sunni Islamic scholars are aware of their existence and so it would appear they are ignoring and unconcerned about the differences. 

    Im not sure I buy into the idea that Muhammad never actually existed although I am open to be proven wrong. Just based on the biographies I've read about him and the many historical events and places that are linked to his direct descendants it's hard to imagine how the Pagan Arabians could fabricate an entire bloodline and religious influence based on someone who didn't exist. Maybe if his influence was isolated to the Mecca and Medina areas I might be able to fathom it, but knowing that his nephews impacted the world as far away as Iraq with all of the historical burial sites there around Karbala it seems unlikely. 

    I have always believed he existed and was a founder of a false religion that he helped expand and change the entire society of the Arabian country. There is one thing I have always wondered about him though...his motive. For years I have debated in my head if he completely made the Quran with his own mind and knowledge or if a demon transmitted the Quran to him disguised as an Angel. The claims of Joseph Smith and Muhammad are so so similar that I can't help to wonder if Mormonism and Islam came from men or messengers from Hell?


  22. On 7/12/2021 at 9:36 AM, SureWord said:

    "Another gospel" in the context Paul used it was the Judaizers adding working to salvation and trying to bring believers back under the law. This could apply to the papacy also.

    In Corinthians the "other gospel" was that Jesus didn't bodily rise from the dead so that would "not God but a good teacher" scenario you hear in liberal churches.

    The LDS church checks both boxes though they have Jesus rising from the dead he is an angel in their teachings.

    Also, false gospels can be brought by an angel according to Paul. That would check another box with the Mormons as they have an angel bringing "another gospel" to Joe Smith.

    Among all the different groups claiming they are Christian it's hard for me to think of any group who teaches and believes a false Gospel more than the Jehovah's witnesses. They burden the rank and file with hours of meetings, door to door ministry, and publications to study for the Sunday meetings. They also  lead the way in denying Jesus bodily resurrection by teaching that his earthly body was "dissolved" in the tomb and was recreated into the "spirit creature"  and Angel Micheal. Ive attended their form of Easter celebration simply called the memorial a few times. During the memorial the bread and glass of wine is passed around but only the 144,000 are supposed to partake. Since those anointed 144,000 have mostly died off the emblems get passed from one person to another and no one partakes. I can not think of any religious observance that I would classify more readily as a "black mass"  than the JW memorial. The millions of people who participate and just pass the bread and wine on are symbolically rejecting Christ and his command to remember him.

    I also wanted to respond to where you mentioned that the LDS believe Jesus was resurrected as an angel. I don't believe that is accurate. In LDS theology Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament and God of this Earth, and after his ressurection he resides on plant Kolob in glorified human body ruling with Heavenly Father called Elohim by LDS. Actual Adam was said to be the Archangel Micheal before "Elohim" sent him to earth to populate the world with Eve. I can only assume they believe Adam became Micheal again after his earthly death.

  23. I always get lost in  theological thought when I hear Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus. Not because I believe it contains bad doctrine, but because I feel like it could give the impression to a non believer that Jesus shed blood is the single focal point for salvation.  

    While Jesus blood was precious and necessary to the plan of redemption the shed blood was only a part of the overall atonement for our sins. I have always understood that when Jesus blood is mentioned in the bible in a redeeming manner it is pointing ultimately to the death of Jesus physical body. 

    When I hear "Nothing But the blood" my mind goes to Old Testament sacrifices where the animals cause of death was blood loss. When Jesus paid the final sacrifice his blood was shed but his death wasn't from bleeding out since Jesus apparently voluntary ended his life by commiting his Spirit to the Father. It is also my understanding that the cause of death from crucifixion was a result of asphyxiation not bleeding to death.

    But like I said...I don't believe the hymn contains false doctrine because it's true the blood of Jesus saved us. In the same way when someone says we are saved by "the cross". That is also true that the crucified Lord is our savior, but we arent saved by the actual wood beams that formed the cross which held the Godman. The cross was only an instrument used to try to make his death come at the hands of  Pharisees, Sadducees, and Rome but they failed and  voluntarily gave up his physical life to atone for the sin of Adam. 

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