Jump to content

Saved41199

Members
  • Posts

    118
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    2

Posts posted by Saved41199

  1. 1 hour ago, Brother Stafford said:

    P.S. It is my personal opinion that churches should use caution when allowing visitors to attend.  I believe that the majority of the soul-winning of the lost should be done outside of church.  I feel strongly that members should only invite guests that they have spoken with and who have shown at least some sort of interest in the things of God.  There are plenty of things that believers can hear preached and can understand, but that would confuse or put off the still lost.  There have been instances where visitors from other churches or even other denominations have caused discord among existing members.  These are a few examples why I believe we should use caution with visitors, and, as I said, it is only my opinion.

    So you have to show your membership card and secret decoder ring to get in the door? 

  2. 15 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    Sin by character is wicked.  Sin by definition is any transgression against the will or Word of God.

    nice try, not buying it. I specifically requested biblical support for your opinions on clothing and how a woman's "immodest dress" directly causes a man (any man) to sin. I requested citations, proper exegesis and looking at the cultural and historical context. You went off on a tangent. That doesn't work with me. Try it again. 

     

    15 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    Women of God are required by the Lord our God to adorn themselves in a modest manner. 

    Modest how? Outwardly, or with a gentle spirit? I can dress in the most "modest" way imaginable and yet be immodest by calling attention to how modest I am. 

    Also, in that quote, where's the idea that men would "stumble"? 

    15 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    Furthermore, the emphasis that our Lord provides is upon the HEART-behavior of the individual, not just upon the outward-behavior of the individual.  The specific HEART-behavior that our Lord confronts and condemns is that of lusting after a woman.  This sinful scenario begins with a look, that carries a purpose or result of lusting within after a woman.  No further action is necessary.  Our Lord clearly states that this internal lusting after the woman is in the sight of God a commission of ADULTERY with her ALREADY in his heart.  She does not have to agree.  She does not have to even know.  How she is attired does not matter.

    Hmm....there's that pesky idea of self-control again. 

    I'm currently wearing a scoop neck, short-sleeved top with appropriate underthings, and a skirt that goes to mid-calf. Some random guy might get turned on by the lumps on my chest that can't be hidden unless I wear a tent. Is it my problem he goes nuts? Nope. It's not. My physical attributes do not exist just to make some guy get hormonal. 

    Again, a man's reaction to my clothing is not my problem. HE needs to discover that my existence is not to blame for whatever thoughts go popping into his head. 

    But...men are convinced (by the church) that they're nothing more than meat sacks of uncontrollable hormones. If you're silly enough to buy that, you've just lowered yourself to being an animal. Animals can't control their lusts. Men can. 

    PS...I broke my sons of saying "I couldn't help it" very early in their lives. They were taught they were fully responsible for every word and action in their lives. I broke them of blaming someone or something else too. My response to "He/She made me...." was this: "Was someone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to do/say whatever it was? No? Then you did it because you wanted to do it." They take full responsibility for everything they do, even if it's something they shouldn't have done. 

  3. 29 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    Let us get this Biblically correct:

    1.  If a saved man lusts after a woman (that is not his wife), it is a wicked sin against the Lord his God and Savior.  It does not matter if the woman is dressed immodestly or modestly.  That man committed sin against the Lord, and HE is at fault before the Lord.  (This principle would be true in reverse for a saved woman who lusts as well.  However, the specific passage of Scripture in mind sets its focus upon men; therefore, I have done the same.)

    2.  If a saved woman dresses immodestly within a public arena (not in the privacy of her relationship with her husband), it is a wicked sin against the Lord her God and Savior.  It does not matter if a man lusts after her or not, or even if a man is actually present who might lust after her.  That woman committed sin against the Lord, and SHE is at fault before the Lord.  (This principle would also be true in reverse for a saved man who dresses immodestly.  However, the specific passage of Scripture in mind sets its focus upon women; therefore, I have done the same.)

    citations please. From the New Testament, with proper cultural and historical exegesis please. 

  4. 5 hours ago, Thief on the Cross said:

    So many times when a Christian man falls in adultery,   what I hear is more preaching about covering up directed toward women.  The man is talked about as a poor brother that fell.   I find it disturbing.     

    Yes! It seems that men are given a pass...they just can't help it. 

    I work in a male-dominated industry. Yes, I dress fairly modestly most of the time, yet...it is not my responsibility to keep some man from losing self-control. I see many men wearing things that I might consider inappropriate...like the guys who walk home from the pool in wet swim suits that leave nothing to the imagination. I may notice it, but it doesn't cause me to "lust" after them. There's only ONE man that I go completely ga-ga over...just one. I've been married to him for a long time.

    This whole thing over pornography, "modesty", etc. is just an excuse for not exercising self-control. Personally, I have NEVER had the urge to look at pornography. It's just not something I'm interested in. I don't watch "chick flicks", I don't read romance novels either. I find them a waste of my time. Now, if there's a good sci-fi movie or series on, or a good drama, or something with lots of explosions and car chases, I'm there. My reason for not being interested in those things is simple...sex is not a spectator sport. 

    I spoke with my husband about this last night and read him some of the posts. Poor guy's eyes rolled so far back into his head I think he saw his own brain. Something about needing to grow up, learning respect, and yes, developing self control were in his comments. We're talking about a retired 24 year sailor here. 

    So, for all you men who are so fragile that the glimpse of a shoulder or a curve can turn you into a boiling pot of lust, it's not the woman's fault, it's your own. Seeing women as human beings that are not property to control will go a long way to resolving your lust issues. 

  5. 17 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

    I don't know what else to say.  That attitude is unscriptural, ungodly and completely lacking in compassion.  I'm done here.

    "Unscriptural"...I quoted Galatians 5:22-23.

    "Ungodly"...saying that a Christian should exhibit the fruit of the Spirit as found in Galatians 5:22-23

    "Lacking in compassion"...saying a Christian should endeavor to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit as found in Galatians 5:22-23.

    What I see is a bunch of men refusing to take responsibility for their own thoughts and actions...kind of like when Adam blamed Eve. 

     

  6. 3 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

    While I admire your zeal for reaching the lost, what about the saved?  Men have to constantly guard their eyes and thoughts because of the carelessness of immodest women in the world. 

    Ummm....nope. Men need to learn SELF-CONTROL. Seriously. My husband can walk down the Strip and not have a single untoward reaction to any of the lovely ladies hanging out. Men can control their own thoughts. Now, do you think women aren't affected visually? I mean, I'm old, not dead. Yet, I can look at a nice-looking man and not think about anything other than..."gee, nice looking guy". 

    I'm sick and tired of men blaming women for their lack of self control. I would point you to Galatians 5:22-23 

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

    23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    You do know what "temperance" is, right? It's self-control. 

    3 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

    If a member is struggling with porn addiction, for example, allowing immodestly dressed people into the church would be incredibly cruel to that member.  Cannot they at least have the expectation of a sanctuary when gathering with others to worship God?

    Gee...there's that self-control thing again. It is entirely possible to go through life without being tempted by pornography, need some sort of blocking software or controls on your computer. My husband has done it for at least 21 years. 

     

    3 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

    Guests should also be able to experience an atmosphere where sexual temptations are eliminated as much as possible.  Immodestly dressed members, or other immodestly dressed guests, can provide a very strong distraction and interfere with them hearing the Gospel being presented. Requiring appropriate clothing from both guests and members is for the benefit of both the guests and members.

    No, Christians should be able to develop self-control. Get over it. Women have curves and bumps. Men have certain attributes. That's the way God made us. If it makes you get utterly hormonally irrational, then YOU have the problem. Not me. My husband traveled the world in the Navy. I'm sure he saw all sorts of sights...yet, know what makes him more of a man? SELF-CONTROL. Yes, he went to bars, topless bars...and didn't lose his marbles in them. He came home to me. There has been no pornography in my house for 20+ years. Why? Because he is not interested in other women. Why? SELF-CONTROL. 

    Don't blame women for your inability to control your own thoughts. You're not an animal, driven by hormonal lusts. 

  7. What disturbs me greatly here is the idea of "my church" or "your church". The church does not belong to men...It belongs to Christ. 

    A person can wear the "right" clothes, say the "right" things and still have a heart blacker than the night. Yet, that person would be welcomed and accepted in IFB-world over someone who isn't wearing the "right" clothes or saying the "right" things, yet DOES the things that Jesus tells us to do "love one another as I have loved you". 

    We, as people, cannot judge hearts. So what if someone shows up in a bikini or speedos? Shouldn't you just thank God that they came to church to hear the Gospel? 

    Give it a rest folks...clothing is the LEAST of things we should worry about...

  8. 15 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

    Just out of curiosity, since I;m assuming that you wouldn't allow someone to come in to your church wearing, to the extreme, as little as a bikini, where would you draw the line to where you would speak to them?  

    I live in Las Vegas...there are times when you're happy with the bare legal minimum (which ain't much in Sin City). 

    In terms of "allowing"...it ain't your church, it ain't my church, it's God's church. 

    Now...quit it. 

  9. 1 hour ago, Salyan said:

    She's explaining it from the point of view of the visitor, and she's right. To walk up to a first time, possibly unsaved visitor and tell them that they have to change their clothing to visit the building/service, no matter how 'kindly' meant, is just plain rude.  (And kind intentions are no excuse for rude behavior.) The visitor will feel humiliated and unwelcome.  

    Exactly. I know if I had been spoken to about my clothing the first time I set foot in a church, I'd have never returned. In my pre-IFB days, my primary wardrobe was jeans, concert t-shirts or tank tops and tennis shoes. If I had gone into a church and someone decided to pick on my wardrobe rather than being happy I was at least there, well...my mouth would have gotten the best of me and I'd have never returned. It would have also reinforced the idea I had that Christianity was some exclusive club that only took those who walked, talked, lived a certain way. Fortunately, we were blessed to find a church that did not look down on us because of our situation (pretty much dirt poor and on welfare). We were immediately surrounded by love...and that is what made the difference. 

    So, the next time someone shows up at church in raggedy clothing or revealing clothing, understand, they don't know any better and it's not YOUR job to point that out in their first visit. Love them, pray for and with them, and let GOD do what He's good at. Years ago there was a t-shirt that was very popular among the Christian crowd. It said "Fisher of men, I catch them, HE cleans them". There's a lot of profound wisdom in that short, pithy saying. 

  10. 2 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

    It's not my word, it's the words of God, and when you stand before God you won't be judged by the words of your Pastor or me, but the words of God. 

    and you have the audacity to speak for God? It's your word. 

    spend some time researching the historical and cultural context of what was written. It's a whole lot deeper than your interpretation. Spend some time doing it. Consult reference works. This is the sort of thing that will take you months to research. Trust me, I've done it. I think I spent upwards of 100 hours researching it. I wrote a paper on it in college (Liberty University class of 2013, Bachelor's of Biblical Studies). 

  11. On 8/24/2018 at 4:25 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

    Well, your statements sure do appeal to emotion. But what about God's word?

    I am sorry you had to go through that, and I am glad by the grace and mercy of God he has allowed you to be married to a man who loves the Lord. 

    However, just because God has been merciful and gracious to you does not mean he endorses remarriage or divorce. 

    I got saved because a guy did drugs with me and witnessed to me, God was gracious and merciful, but the fact that I got saved does not mean God approved of my friends behavior and the way he was living.

    Now...for a few questions...the marriage covenant is defined in Ephesians 5, correct? There's quite a few verses that define the husband's duty to the wife, right? Jesus also said "except for fornication", right? 

    So...husband is abusive...violates the marriage covenant in Ephesians 5, correct? Especially the part about loving his wife as he loves his own body, right? 

    Then there's the fornication aspect...someone who watched hard core porn while his wife and children were 800 miles away taking care of her parents. 

    Last, but not least, he was NOT a Christian and it is written that if the non-believing spouse wishes to leave, let them leave, right? 

    So...don't expend energy jumping to conclusions when you don't know the full story. 

    Have a great weekend. 

  12. I was married to a man who thought it was funny to beat my children, turn off the telephone, take my car keys, refuse to give me money for food. He finally snapped and threw me and the kids out of the house at the business end of his shotgun. He filed for divorce. I didn't want to even THINK about trying to reconcile with him. 

    Now I'm married (and have been for about 20 years) to a Jesus loving, praying, loving his wife man.

  13. Just get them to read the bible for themselves. That's what started me out of the RCC. So many things I had been taught and believed were nowhere in the bible...not even a Catholic version. 

  14. 15 hours ago, swathdiver said:

    I don't believe your statements about the female medics, firemen and police officers.  The women medics and firemen are just too physically weak (as God created them) to lift and move large men like men can do.  The police officer's ability to control men was no doubt assisted by her badge and gun.  History is replete with lady officers being overwhelmed and subdued by criminals who were not deterred by their guns and badges.  

    Are you calling me a liar? You think women are too "physically weak"? Sir, before I got hurt, I could bench press 225lbs, leg lift over 400lbs. I was a competitive swimmer. Athletically I could take on the boys and beat them in just about anything including wrestling. My father taught judo and taught me well. 

    It seems to me YOU have an issue with women. I invite you into the 21st century where women excel in many careers from firefighter to astronaut. I double dog dare you to walk up to a veteran like Senator Tammy Duckworth and tell HER that you think she was too weak to pilot that Apache. Go ahead. 

  15. 1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

    As for your last, a man is a visual creature, we see things differently then women and it does not matter how much we love our wives or that we hate seeing that which we ought not to see but our fallen society sees nothing wrong with.  Immodest and improper dress can be a stumbling block to men.  Without thought, our eyes go here and there automatically and I for one have to shield them and my brain lest I fall into sin myself!  Praise God that I am not like I used to be!

    If you claim you "can't help" looking then I think you need to develop some SERIOUS self-control. 

    And, if you think a woman in pants looks like a man, then you've obviously not understood part of this conversation. Women's pants are cut MUCH differently than men's pants. 

    1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

    adies should not be medics or firemen, they lack the physical strength to do the job

    That's funny! I know a few female medics, firemen and police officers who could take down a man in a minute. A friend of mine is a retired officer from my hometown. She's 5'-nothing and 110lbs on a good day. She had NO problems taking down men twice her size. 

    But, I get it...you want to control women...because YOU can't control YOUR OWN thoughts...Ok...my advice on that is grow up and get you some of that fruit of the spirit...that self-control fruit. I have a husband and two sons who don't turn into slobbering fountains of testosterone around women. 

  16. On 5/25/2018 at 8:27 AM, swathdiver said:

    For example?  

    Construction sites, certain workplaces like warehouses, EMT, Firefighter, Police officer. Working on a car. Up on a ladder. Nurses. Doctors. 

    Or do you believe that women also should not work? 

    I don't need to worry about what my husband is looking at. I can tell you he only has eyes for one woman...ME. 

     

  17. On 5/15/2018 at 2:01 PM, RayTX said:

    ...and then what about necklines or form-fitting tops on women.  I believe modest apparel and appropriate apparel is quite Biblical.  A woman working with Preschoolers may best be serving in clothing that keeps areas covered when bending or turning.

    The way I'm built, they're ALL form-fitting. If I want to try to hide what's in front, I might as well wear a tent. I don't wear low cut but there's absolutely NO question I am a woman.

     

    On 5/21/2018 at 8:57 AM, swathdiver said:

    Not addressed in this post is that to dress like a man is an abomination.  Men wear pants.  It was the leftists, the God-haters, who began the unisex movement.  Why would a Christian want to follow after them?

    Yes, men wear pants...however, in certain situations, it's a safety matter. And, if I AM wearing pants, it's still pretty obvious I am a woman. Women's pants are cut quite differently from men's pants. I cannot wear pants that are cut for men. They just do not fit right. I'm short, on the chubby side, and it isn't hard to figure out I'm female from the back or the front. 

    For the record, I wear dresses/skirts and tops most of the time. I will not swim in a public pool or a beach. Any time I'm wearing shorts/tank tops, I'm inside my home. I get dressed for church. I don't normally wear make up or jewelry other than my wedding rings. My hair is to my waist. However, in the days when I was walking around construction sites, I wore the appropriate personal protective equipment including jeans, workboots, reflective vest, hard hat, etc 

  18. 7 hours ago, Alan said:

    President Trump has done more good for the United States of America than President Clinton and  Obama put together.

    How? Increasing racial crimes, a president who paid off hookers, who lies every time he opens his mouth, the "tax bill" that funnels money to the 1%, the flagrant waste of our money on his endless golfing trips. 

    Under Clinton and Obama, the economy was strong, the deficit was reduced, the ACA saved many lives (including mine and my husband's). 

    Trump is a disaster for the USA 

  19. As a woman, I don't think it's a sin...there are times when wearing pants/jeans is appropriate. I had to wear them for years for safety reasons...construction sites are NOT set up for someone in a dress or skirt. I think modesty is more a state of mind rather than what's on your body. Its an attitude that doesn't call attention to self. That said, since I no longer have to deal with construction sites, I wear skirts/dresses much more often now. 

    I think the idea is that women should look like women and men should look like men. I think each woman should pray about what the Lord would have her do when it comes to wardrobe. 

  • Member Statistics

    6,088
    Total Members
    2,124
    Most Online
    shlomo
    Newest Member
    shlomo
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...