...

.

.

Well to be fair, saying "my church" doesn't necessarily imply the idea of ownership it actually also contains the idea of belonging to something or associations with something. for example, if I say "my school" it doesn't mean I own it, it means I belong to it, that I have membership. Consider similar phrase "my country" or "my nation" "my tribe" etc. 
Yes the church belongs to Jesus Christ, but honestly how many people who say "my church" actually mean that they think it belongs to them. 

.

.

Well, let's see. We have a country where it's been fashionable to "come out of the closet" and proudly proclaim that you're "gay" for a few decades now.  But just 5 decades ago, when I was learning to read,  Janet, Mark and Spot had a "gay" old time and it meant they were "happy". Now, Girls are going out, hunting bears with bows and arrows, fighting in combat and boys are now dainty little sissies. We DISHONOUR and emasculate our men, deeming them worthless buffoons, take away the things associated with manhood and give them to the women. How did we get here? Little baby steps. For one thing, we gave them our clothes. Women began dressing like men a loooong time ago and now the men have relented, we have little left.  Bruce Jenner, the once mighty athlete is now "Kaitlin Jenner" wearing a dress..  Y'all do what you want, as for me and my house, my wife and daughter wear dresses and and are not the least bit interested in deer hunting. 

Modesty is the key to clothing and both Men and Women fail in this area far too often, even in church. I am amazed at the clothes Christians wear. The short shorts, the low necklines, tight clothes, etc.  

Interesting that a Holy Spirit inspired command is considered "an old diversion."  Yet the Holy Spirit Himself DID indeed INSPIRE the command of Deuteronomy 22:5, which would move me to conclude that the Holy Spirit Himself DOES care about this matter and that this matter IS a part of the Holy Spirit's working in our hearts.
Yet this matter is NOT about the unsaved visitors or the brand new converts, but is about the obedience and spiritual growth of believers.
Yet this matter is NOT about following the leadership of a pastor, but is about faithful submission and obedience unto the Lord our God Himself.  The command of Deuteronomy 22:5 is in GOD'S WORD.  it is not the word of a pastor.  it is the WORD OF GOD.  It supersedes the authority of ANY pastoral leadership. 
Indeed, we DO have a clear goal; for the greatest command of all, as per the estimation of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself is -- "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." (See Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:30)  So then, if you really feel the need to narrow all of the doctrine and instruction within God's Holy Word unto one responsibility, then THIS should be that one responsibility.  Even so, how shall we demonstrate this "all-heart," "all-soul," "all-mind" love unto the Lord our God?  Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself gave answer in John 14:21, "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."  
Furthermore, how can a believer be empowered to be an effective witness unto the lost world?  Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself gave answer in John 15:4-5, "Abide in me, and I in you.  As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.  I am the vine, ye are the branches.  He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."  So then, how can a believer abide in Christ?  Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself gave answer in John 15:10, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."  
It appears to me that understanding and obeying all of the commandments that the Lord our God has given us in His Holy Word (including the command of Deuteronomy 22:5) is SIGNIFICANTLY and SPIRITUALLY IMPORTANT, not "an old diversion" that "side-tracks" us.

Jim,
I liked your study on Acts 15 and felt it was noteworthy to copy and paste in its entirety on this study. I changed only one thing; the spelling of Barnabas.
Acts 15
Country Baptist Church
May 23, 2012
By James Foley
 
Paul and Barnabas have returned from their first missionary journey. At this point in time they had been at Antioch fellowshipping with the church there a long time. This short time of relative ease is about to come to an end. Paul had, in the past, no small disputation with some of the church members at the Jerusalem Church who had been holding on to their Jewish customs. This situation is going to become a point of contention, as well it should be; keeping the law has no place in regard to salvation or in the teaching of the Lord’s church in regard to salvation. Romans 10:4 “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
 
Ver.1 These men were members of the church at Jerusalem. There can be no doubt that these were pretenders. Paul had dealt with this problem in the Jerusalem Church before. Galatians 2:1-6
 
These men were not even good at being pretenders. This church at Antioch was a sound church; to hear from members of a sister church that they believed that salvation was of the law would cause quite a stir.
 
Ver.2 This is a very good example of an incident that never should have happened. The very fact that they came down to Antioch and taught, tells us that they were teachers in the church at Jerusalem.
 
We need to be very careful about who we put in a place of instruction in our churches. Teachers need to be well grounded in the faith and very spiritually minded; Godly men.
 
We have ample instruction for just such situations. 2Thess. 3:6 “Now we command you,
brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.”
 
The church at Antioch could have decided this matter themselves, why didn’t they, why go to the church at Jerusalem?
 
Situations like this create doubt, not doubt about what is right, but doubt about what a sister church might believe or teach. This would be of utmost importance to the church at Antioch because this church was started by the church at Jerusalem. Now to hear that the church that sponsored them might believe something contrary to what they had been taught was very troubling. It could even be cause for them to break fellowship with the sister church if what these men were saying was actually what the church at Jerusalem believed.
 
The church at Antioch was spiritual enough to decide this issue for themselves, this is why there was such a sharp contention regarding what these men were teaching; the church knew it was wrong. They sent men up to Jerusalem on a fact finding mission, it was imperative
that they determine what their sister church believed, the law or grace? So they send Paul and Barnabas to find out.
 
Ver.3-5 Notice in Ver.3 Paul and Barnabas are brought on their way by the church. This speaks volumes regarding church authority; these men did not go up to Jerusalem on their own, the church sent them. This is also not a question of one church having any authority over another. Each New Testament church is autonomous. This is solely a matter of fellowship between churches and their members.
 
In Ver.5 we see that there were men within the Jerusalem church that believed that the law must be kept to be saved. It says they were of the sect of the Pharisees, it also says that they “believed”. This is not to be understood as being saved. They believed, but it was a head knowledge not a heart knowledge. They believed Christ had come to save, but they also believed that once you were saved, you had to keep the law by being circumcised as Moses commanded.
 
This flies in the face of scripture: Romans 10:4 “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” The Son of God is the only man that ever kept the law in its entirety. It is only through Him, understanding that He kept the law for us, that we can be eternally saved.
 
In Christ we keep the law that we could not keep on our own. Rom. 3:21 “But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
 
Ver.6-12 After much dispute among the Church members at Jerusalem, Peter rose to speak and put the whole matter in perspective. In doing so, he made the beliefs of this church clear to all, including those who thought that the law had to be kept also.
 
Peter puts the pretenders in this church in their place by firmly showing that salvation was wholly by Grace, without any works of the law mixed in. Ver.10 He puts it in perspective by telling these pretenders that they are tempting God, and putting a Yoke on the neck of disciples by their Jewish teaching concerning the law. The yoke he speaks of is the law.
 
In Ver.11 He goes on to show all, including the representatives of the church at Antioch, Paul and Barnabas, that this church believed in salvation by Grace and faith in Christ. God has one Gospel for all and makes no distinction between men,whether they are Jew or Gentile.
 
There are those that say they are Christians today that believe that Baptism saves. This teaching is just another way of saying you have to keep the law to be saved. If Baptism saves, then there is something you must do to be saved…be Baptized. “This is another gospel.” Which Paul spoke of in Gal. 1:6 “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
 
Ver.13-21 Now the Apostle James has his say in the matter. He would put nothing on the new converts other than that they be Holy. Ver.19-20 He tells them that the Jews have many that preach the law, but this is not the job of a New Testament Church.
 
It should be noted here that this is not a “convention” as some teach, it is simply a meeting of two sister church’s to determine a point of doctrine. Conventions are foreign to the Word of God. Conventions are the product of associations and are strictly a modern invention brought about by those of no spiritual understanding. God’s Word teaches that churches are to be independent of each other and local in nature, rather than “universal.”
 
Ver.22-25 Now the church at Jerusalem has a business meeting and determines to send men to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas carrying news in a church letter that will clarify this churches doctrinal position.
 
We need to note in Ver.24 that although the pretenders went out from the Jerusalem church, they were not authorized to teach what they did. The church gave them no such instruction.
 
The words, “went out from us,” could have a quite different meaning than that they were officially sent out by the church at Jerusalem. It could very well mean that they went out from the fellowship of the Jerusalem church because of doctrinal differences and were no longer members of that body.
1John 2:19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
 
Ver.30-35 There is always cause to rejoice over preserved fellowship that centers around God’s truth.
 
John Young,
If you would like to upload your study on Acts 15 please do so as you feel led.
Brethren,
I was planning to upload a study on Acts 14:21-23. I do want to reserve the right to upload that study at my discretion.
Alan
 

Brethren,
It is my contention that Paul the Apostle, as he preached the gospel, and folks were saved, he then had these saints assembled together in a local assembly: a church in a local area.
This thread is to follow Paul, by giving examples, as he, and the other apostles, obeyed the Great Commission in seeing souls saved and churches established.
Alan
 

The Local Church
I Timothy 3:15, “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”
The “house of God” that Paul is referring to the local assembly of the believers. The Apostle Paul is admonishing Timothy to behave himself in the local assembly of believers; the church. The local church was an assembly in an area of a community. It was the visible assembly of the saints in the New Testament. The church may be in a house, a rented building, or a building that was bought for the purpose of the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
In 1 and 2 Timothy Paul the Apostle give Timothy, and every saint in the New Testament, instructions “how” to behave himself in the local assembly of believers in the church.
This behavior includes the following two offices in the local church:
 
1. The qualifications of the pastor, or bishop, in 1 Timothy 3:1-7, and called an elder in 1 Timothy 5:17. These qualifications are for the pastor of the local church.
2. The qualifications of the deacon and his wife, 1 Timothy 3:8-13. These qualifications are for the deacon(s) of the local church.
The local churches were Independent in Authority and Fellowship
Colossians 4:15 and 16, “Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house. And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.”
Nymphas had a church in his house. This assembly was local in scope, visible, and limited in authority,
There was another church, or another visible assembly of believers, in Laodicea. Paul admonished the two assemblies to share in the reading of the Epistle of
Colossians. There were no "bishops," or denominational headquarters, over the two assemblies.
Denominations & the so-called “Universal” Church
There are no denominations in the New Testament. All of the denominations, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, etc… have a starting
point in history, a leader, and a religious hierarchy that is unknown in the New Testament scriptures.
There is no “universal church” in the New Testament. There is a “General Assembly,” in heaven of all the saints, “But ye come unto mount Sion, and unto the city
of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in
heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.” Hebrews 12:22 and 23
 
All of the assemblies mentioned in the New Testament are visible, local and independent. The Apostle Paul gave detailed instructions for the qualifications of the
pastor and the deacon as the visible head of the local church. 
 

I live in Las Vegas...there are times when you're happy with the bare legal minimum (which ain't much in Sin City). 
In terms of "allowing"...it ain't your church, it ain't my church, it's God's church. 
Now...quit it. 

.

That's right, they worship the creation more than the Creator!

OK I see Swath. Same old animal rights nonsense. It has always amazed me that almost without fail these people are for saving everything except human babies. They will quickly advocate for and crusade to save animals, while just as quickly advocate and vote for abortion of the unborn human babies.

How long would "leadership conferences" last if no one attended them? This speaks more to the "mindset" of some church pastors today.
If a man is truly called of God to lead a flock, he already has a leader.  Johh 6:45  It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Inevitably leadership conferences produce little clones of supposedly "successful" leaders. The attendees take on not only the methods taught, but also the personal preaching habits, speech patterns and peculiarities of speakers at the conference. So,, ironically the attendees of the leadership conference become "followers" rather than leaders.

.

.

Some food for thought for those who think ladies wearing trousers is ok.  Who started this?  Who started the trend of women dressing in pants and men's clothing being tailored for ladies?  Why the liberals in Hollywood did beginning in the 1920s in America.  So why would Christians adopt the lifestyle of Hollywood, allowing them to move the ancient landmarks that had been in place since the creation?

.

Interesting thought........... ?

Somehow we went from wearing culottes to shorts for sports activities.  At least the culottes were modest and identified one as a girl from a distance.
As to the earlier discussion, when folks in my local church tried to school an unbeliever about their immodest dress, without ears to hear with, they were offended and never came back.  Hard lesson.  When I pulled into the parking lot for the first time at our local church, my wife refused to get out of the car, saying it was a cult, all these ladies wearing dresses and long skirts!  We left but I prayed and persisted and we came back and the Lord wrought his Work on my dear wife's heart.  In the pew on a Wednesday night she leaned over and said we're home.  We did not live around women who dressed modestly.  Everything tight and or hanging out is the norm.
I had a job delivering to convenience stores once, it was tough being a child of God and going into those places with the ladies everywhere biblically naked.  I had to keep my thoughts on the Lord continually.  I loved the work but not that aspect, it was terribly stressful and soon after I was injured and could not do it anymore.
When these young ladies dress up, their dresses end barely below their belly buttons and barely the other way too!  Not a whole lot is left to the imagination.  But that is business attire, clubbing attire, its what they wear to weddings and funerals.  When not in dresses they're wearing those active wear skin tight clothes or even less.  Their momma's did too and they know no better. 
 
Only under conviction of the Holy Spirit will they begin to get curious and ask questions and have ears to hear with, then we can help win them for the Lord and get them to dress proper.

.

.

My biggest issue with this sort of thing is that it is soooooooo easy to wash the outside and impress people watching, but leave the heart completely unaddressed. 
I think that this one area where a church has liberty (keeping in mind the baseline modesty), and that anyone who wants to honour the Lord will submit to that church's standard.
But someone who is genuinely saved will come to what is considered God honoring dress BECAUSE of the change of their natural man to a new creature.
It may take some people longer than others because we all grow at different rates.
But any organisation has a right to demand basic good manners and basic modesty.