MikeWatson1

Only "throw it out" if you are trying to offer it to God to be accepted by God.
For example..
"God, i'll promise to stop sinning............will you save me now'"" ?????
See that?
"God says"  =  NO I WONT, as that is not my GRACE. and you are "saved by Grace", or you are not saved at all.
 

What you wrote does not even make sense as a sentence, so, it certainly can't be found as sound theology.
So, God requires that we give to Him, our faith in Christ.  As that is to repent from Unbelief, and that is the TRUE Repentance that God accepts.
Remember..
'Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS"......... and you qualified......same as us all.
Just stay here...
A.) God became a man to die for all your sin, so that He can then give you HIS Righteousness.

And that is what happens when you go to God with Faith in Christ.

God takes the Blood and Death of Jesus and makes you sinless, as "Jesus is the ONE TIME... Eternal SACRIFICE for SIN"

AND then, once your SIN is dealt with by the BLOOD and DEATH of Jesus........as He has now died for them all..... God then gives you "the Gift of Righteousness" that is "The Gift of Salvation".

See that?

That is to become BORN AGAIN... as a "new Creation".. "in Christ". AS = "ONE with GOD".

The arguments given here against Calvinism are profound, and scripturally true. But I am a simple man and to me it all boils down to a very simple argument and verse.
If Calvinism is true, then God deliberately creates THIS person for Heaven and then He deliberately creates THAT person for hell. 1 John 4:8 tells us that God is love. I'm sure that person that the Calvinistic god deliberately created for hell sure sees the Calvinistic god as love.
I just cannot cross over that very simple hurdle. And no Calvinistic argument can change my mind. God is love. And He wants to share that love with whosever will. My loving God has NEVER created anyone for hell. If that is where you end up it was entirely your choice. 

Salvation being 100% of God doesn’t negate man’s response - and that’s where they get it wrong. The Holy Spirit enlightens us to the truth; convicts us of our sin, our unrighteousness, and our need for the Saviour, enables us to understand the truth of who Jesus is and what He has done to save us, and shows us that salvation is not something that can be earned through anything we can do. Man responds either positively or negatively to this. If we receive the truth by receiving the Saviour and His free gift of salvation, the Holy Spirit then regenerates and indwells us, we are adopted into the family of God, given an inheritance in Christ and a future home in Heaven. That’s all by His grace - but we need to receive it, and God doesn’t force man to believe or be saved. That is up to us - and yes, He even calls and compels us - but we still need to receive the Gospel to be saved.

Fellowship Baptist College in E. Peoria, IL
Maranatha Baptist Bible College Watertown, Wisconsin
Twin Oaks Missionary Baptist College, E. .Peoria, IL

True, I’ll like to add baptisms of the new believers for membership. Some might say it’s not important.

Many churches calling themselves non denominational I've seen are very very similar to charismatic Anglicans or Methodists. They say they are non denom yet have almost exactly the same statement of faith as a denomination.
Their non denominational idea is not to go back to scripture,  but to do things their own way.
But then also you can get the rare non-denominational church that just goes by the bible and matches very closely or the same as an IFB church.  That's because they have the same stance of letting the bible govern their beliefs.
 
 

Many churches calling themselves non denominational I've seen are very very similar to charismatic Anglicans or Methodists. They say they are non denom yet have almost exactly the same statement of faith as a denomination.
Their non denominational idea is not to go back to scripture,  but to do things their own way.
But then also you can get the rare non-denominational church that just goes by the bible and matches very closely or the same as an IFB church.  That's because they have the same stance of letting the bible govern their beliefs.
 
 

Reader, 
 
There is this Teaching that the more hyper Calvinists seem to employ.
This.. = "You must be born again, before you can believe, before you can give God your faith".
Now, any Believer who is born again for 12 seconds, can see that this is exactly backwards, and is an impossible situation to EXIST.
That teaching is teaching that God would join Himself to a sinner, as "one with God" "in Christ"...=  before God has received their faith to then forgive their sin.
So that teaching is... "you are born again, before you have heard the Gospel, and before you have BELIEVED IT">
That is,=  "Salvation comes to you.... before the hearing of faith..... and before you trusted in Christ..."
 
That teaching is...."you are born again to then be able to have faith in Christ".
Now, see how CRAZY Calvinism that is??
That teaching is Theological insanity, and is one of the best examples of... Hebrews 13:9,  = "doctrines of Devils".
That Teaching is a rejection of "All that believe in Jesus, shall be saved".
That Teaching is : Galatians 1:8

Where does the Bible say "give your whole life over to Jesus" at the time of salvation? Of course, ultimately that's what is supposed to happening but at the time of accepting Jesus as Savior I don't see that in scripture. 
Again, I find it ironic the Lordship Salvation ultimately becomes Full Gospel Salvation just like Calvinism becomes Arminianism.

Well, only a Christian can have "dead faith".. and only a Christian can "fall from Grace".. and only a Christian can "backslide" and only a Christian can have a "shipwrecked" faith.
The fact is.... a believer can become very deceived in their head... especially if Calvinism becomes their mind, as in that case, they will begin to blame God for what the devil does to them and to their life.   
See : Calvinism blames God for it all, as if the Devil does not exist to cause evil..
It can also be that something that really matters to you, such as your child.. .they can die.  and then you say...>"why did YOU let that happen, GOD".
And you then Hate God....
And then the newbie believers who have no ministry experience, have never won a soul... want to come and blurb.... "well, if they were really born again they would not be like that'..
But yes they would... .as you can't stop being a HUMAN, no matter how long you are saved.
So, the fact is... REAL LIFE can harm and its possible for you to blame God and never go back .
And THAT has nothing to do with your Salvation, as Salvaiton is Christ on the Cross, and not how you think later, or behave later.

The thing is, giving your whole life.  Is that salvation coming from Jesus...or you? 
Sometimes it is just semantics.. but making Jesus Lord of your life.. in every area takes alot of time. 
Old sin doesn't always straight away stop after salvation.  Because the Holy Spirit is there indwelling.. means you'll be pushed to not go back...but doesn't mean you can't or won't go back. 
Usually the Lordship salvationist will say you can't or won't go back to old sin. It 'back loads' works in to salvation so you still must be doing good works. 

Reader...

Lets get real... Lets keep it real....

The reason that Lordship Salvation is denial of the Cross....Its because the Salvation of God, is..

You were a dirty lost sinner, and you never did anything for God. 
You loved sin.
You never cared about Law, or Commandments, and you thought that "Christ is a crutch for the weak".
If you went to church at all it was "Easter" or some Christmas service, and you sat there bored, looking at the "chicks'.
Yeah YOU.

So, THAT stinking mess of humanity, heard the Gospel, and had a REVELATION that you needed Jesus.
So, you came forward, or you kneeled and prayed, and gave God your faith in Christ.
You, a hell bound sinning dog.....

And now, later, you are trying to teach, prove... that you came to Jesus and knew anything AT THAT TIME, about JESUS being THE LORD?

You knew nothing about this.. at THAT TIME.
All you knew is that something was happening inside you, and you obeyed it from the heart and God took you, filthy you, and made you clean with the BLOOD of Jesus., by HIS GRACE.

And now you "lordship" cult people, want to pretend that AT THAT TIME you had your "Lordship Theology", all lined up.

"If Christ is not LORD OF YOUR LIFE< He's not LORD AT ALL".... or "If Jesus is not Lord of all then He's not Lord at all".....

So, i know some carnal words that i acquired before i was born again, that tend to "pop up in my thinking"...... and they fit this "lordship" nonsense perfectly.

I"ll refrain.

But you get the message, fakirs.

-pathetic.

I will clarify, it is hyperdispensationalists doing what you said (not dispensationalists overall). Being a dispensationalist is Biblical - this is an acknowledgement that God had different rules and ways of working in different periods of man's history. That is literally what dispensations are - the word means house laws. In the Garden of Eden (what is often referred to as the age of innocence), the only command they had was not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then was what is often referred to as the age of conscience. Later, Noah built and ark and the new inhabitants were under human government now (not directly governed by God), later there was the period of the patriarchs and the promises of God, then the period of the Law, now we are in the church age/grace - one salvation, but different commands on how we are to live, different levels of knowledge, next will be the Day of the Lord (including the tribulation period and the Millennium/the kingdom age), then eternity. Don't worry about the names, they are just for clarification and identification. The takeawy is that there are seven or eight distinct clear ages or period in man's history where God dealt with them differently - all failed or will fail, except eternity, where only true regenerated and immortal (ie. no longer mortal, sinful bodes) believers dwell in the presence of God.
Ephesians gets into the dispensations or ages - so it is a Biblical concept. The problem comes when hyperdispensationalist come to divide the history of man in ways the Bible does not (ie. different salvation, this or that part of the Bible ONLY for that time period - not taking into account certain things being types which were later fulfilled or ceremonial things, etc. Also, some may differ on exact time periods or details of some aspect of a dispensation (such as what you mentioned above about the exact start of the church), but that is why we need to rightly divide the Word of God and not throw out or reject Biblical concepts because some have gone overboard on something.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Dispensation is: "oikonomía, (which is literal laws of the house - nomia laws, oikos house)
from G3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":—dispensation, stewardship.
This exact form of the word is used seven times in the NT (1 listed above and 6 below - I don't know if there are more right now as I am just giving a quick reply - but there are other passages and terms used to teach this principle):
Luke 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.

Luke 16:3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.

Luke 16:4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
If necessary, we can start a thread to give further info/discussion on this.

This is my opinion and my personal experience talking with others - but for all my experience and all that others have expressed to me, a backslider is ashamed or embarassed to talk about Jesus, etc. because they are not doing right. They typically do not renounce God, the Bible, Christianity, reject the doctrines they previously embraced. To reject what you once professed is what is referred to as apostasy. A backslider is not an apostate, and an apostate was never saved in the first place - despite how fervent and religious they might have seemed to others at some point in the past.

Reader,

Jesus died on the CROSS, which is the only WAY you'll get to go to heaven,. John 14:6

Now let me show you this verse as Matt 7.

Matthew 7

The Broad WAY... vs.. the NARROW WAY.

1.) BROAD is the WAY, (the means and the method and the path) = to DESTRUCTION...

The BROAD WAY.. .is any WAY, any means, any RELIGION or SELF EFFORT to try to go to heaven, or to to be accepted by GOD>.
This is.."there is a WAY that seems right to a person"..... 
This is all the "" BROAD WAY that leads to "DESTRUCTION">.= and that is HELL........as HELL is the ""2nd DEATH, or outer darkness"", and that is to be eternally separated from GOD, who "exists in LIGHT"< and Jesus is the LIGHT of the WORLD.. and all the born again, are "children OF THE LIGHT."


2.) the Narrow WAY......, see that? What is that WAY, = that is NARROW, as compared to the BROAD WAY ??

See that?

Narrow, vs BROAD.

The Narrow WAY, is the CROSS of CHRIST, because Jesus said that its the ONLY WAY.. John 14:6. the single way... which makes it NARROW, vs BROAD.

See it?

So, the GATE, is JESUS,  The GATE is the CROSS OF CHRIST.. The GATE is to be "Justified by FAITH".... because Jesus is the only DOOR who leads the SHEEP to God.. He is SALVATION, that is Narrow, because JESUS is the ONLY WAY (Gate) TO THE FATHER.. = "but by ME">. He told us.

That's  a Narrow gate, as that is the only ONE that God offers so that By the Blood Atonement, All who Believe can be restored into Eternal Relationship with God.... as "One with God" "in Christ".

Calvin simply redefined "God's foreknowledge" as "Predestined", and from that starting point, created a Theology that is both Theological and Spiritual poison.
 
Paul says that the born again, who are fallen from Grace, are "Bewitched" and "WHO has deceived you".
 
A.) John Calvin is one of the worst as his Theology, can take your mind and put it in a dark place so that the Gospel becomes obscure and the Cross become Hidden.
 
John Calvinism is a cancer on the Body of Christ.
 
That's a fact.

Every Calvinst I've listened to ended up teaching Arminianism.
"If you didn't persevere until the end you never were saved to begin with."
"If Jesus isn't Lord of all he isn't Lord at all."
All smacks of good works.

Yeah, Calvinists are supposed to believe once saved always saved but turn around and say if you don't endure to the end in your faith it's never saved to begin with.  So really it's not osas

I think a lot of this is an attention seeking fad. 
It's ironic that many Calvinsts end up sounding like Arminians.

The youth here took hold of Charismatic and Pentecostal so called churches. Not sure if covid did that much to them.
The Vineyard movement has several what they call campuses here. My cousin is a pastor of one of them. My other cousin is the admin guy for another of them. Their Sunday morning service you don't see much tongue speaking etc..but go to their youth group and there is where it's pretty rife.
We also have C3 so called churches that are big here. And New Life ones. The New Life ones seem the most focussed on primarily tongues for the gifts.
They may have got knocked back a bit with COVID..but are resurging and I think will keep getting more popular with youth to set the stage for the false Messiah.

There are doctrines that have been developed systamitized and refined over time that are now considered core baptist beliefs (or of your particular group as it is today). But you can't apply those as they are today to all of those generally identified as independent in the past. You can even take the refined distinct doctrines of the catholics today, look back into history and you see catholics weren't really catholics by today's standard of a catholic!

Rather you have to look at the distinction that history required, that of baptizing Adults and independence from the state/universal church. Those distinctions included doctrinally correct and incorrect churches, all independent of each other. Therefore you cannot use the doctrines of a few churches to claim the whole to be heretical. We know the true churches were among them though they each had diverse beliefs.

Thank you, I'll have a look at those.
It seems to be the key thing with this history...that a whole group is characterised as heretical and some may have some strange beliefs in there, but within these groups were genuine churches who upheld the Word of God.
There is the accusation from reformers and RCC of denying the Trinity and gnosticism. So that is what I am wondering about. But it seems from the books that show the history..is there were groups among these that were mostly pure.
 
Also..like you say..the NT churches counted as Gods churches had their own strange teachings also. Eg.. paganism with the Corinthians... gnosticism with other churches and Judaizers in the Galatian churches .

One need only look to the N.T. churches from those in the bible, and man so called baptist today and ask the same thing. Hence why each it to be independent. Its also easy to look from without a group and make overly generalised comments about the whole while overlooking the fact that independent churches grouped among them were better adherence to the doctrines of scripter than were others within that same general grouping. Much of what made them "part of that group" were not necessarily their perfection as a people but rather their independent nature from the state and universal churches. Books like "Trail of Blood' are less about groups with "perfect Baptist doctrine" and more about allegiance to Christ and the local church as the pervar of that doctrine. Its from that vein and not from the state beast that baptic come from is the point of these books.