MikeWatson1

Yea .. they say a saved person WILL be faithful to the end and if not..then never saved. That is works for salvation...yet then say you can't decide to receive Jesus as Saviour and they call that a work.

No other way. Obedience to commands is works.. but when it's obeying the call to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus.. then obviously it's all scriptural

Obeying the call to believe on Jesus Christ?

Yeah, reminds me of when I was at work and mentioned going past a bar/restaurant that was designed for women and I called them ladies. The supervisor, a lady, said I'd have to be careful what I said around here and don't use the word 'lady'. Alot of women these days are offended by the term lady. I always thought it as a dignified term as alongside 'gentlemen'. A respectful term. And then it's been pushed further than that... with women identifying themselves as 'non binary' or actually a man. And we are supposed to be not allowed to say they are still a woman. Reality checks are often needed in today's subjective society.

Okay.. ah so you aren't linking works to salvation but the command to believe in Him?

Yeah.. but that can only be done AFTER conversion, right? Obedience isn't part of conversion

Here is the issue put forward here by Ono... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iytw4eHQEE

I guess it is the same issue of 'back loading ' works into salvation. People having to prove they are converted by their good deeds. Turning from sin and committing your life to Christ I believe are righteous and Godly things. But I think you gotta have your sins forgiven ..be converted..before doing life commitments and lessening sin in your life. It's right to want to serve Jesus of course..but mix service into salvation and salvation may not happen. The central thing of why I oppose turning from sin in tracts as part of salvation.. is it isn't self reformation at salvation but knowing you can't reform yourself without Jesus. Putting turning from sin as part of salvation..to me is the same as trying to make a lifelong commitment to Christ of good deeds. If someone fails in this commitment or fails in turning from sin after they think they are saved...then like you say...fears they weren't saved. But it is Jesus' forgiveness that gets them to heaven... not their behaviour. Of course there will be fruit from being saved... and someone who falls into old sin will be rebuked by God..so it's likely they will turn from sin. But the promise to turn from sin isn't receiving eternal life.

Okay, yes. It's common on other site forums to say a saved person IS going to do good works..be faithful to the end. And if they aren't...to say they were never converted. Doesn't matter if they have they have believed.

I kind of agree with you, but I'm not a fan of saying a saved person definitely WILL do good works. There definitely will be fruit from being converted... but that can be invisible to others looking from outside. It's a work on the persons soul...not an outward work of good deeds.

It is extremely popular these days to have in a salvation tract 'commiting your life to Christ ' and/or 'turning from sin'... for receiving eternal salvation. These are fine and noble things of course. But are they things someone can actually do before conversion? Is not 'turning from sin' ..a work? Is not 'commiting your life to Christ ' also a work? Salvation is all about believing on Jesus Christ... it isn't an effort on the part of the believer of behaviour. You gotta know you are a sinner at salvation of course... otherwise how would God convict you.. but repent doesn't mean 'turn from sin ' as a behaviour..but 'change of heart, mind' that happens at belief on Jesus. John 3:16, 5:24, 10:28..Romans 5:8

Oh .. I just saw about him dying in the forum now. My prayers go out to his family and I'll see him again in heaven. We were very much on the same page with Baptist teaching.

Just on easy believism... Since salvation isn't by works ..by grace thru faith in Jesus... Then shouldn't it be 'easy to believe ' ? Jesus is not willing that anyone should perish... So why would He make it difficult to get a place in heaven? So I'm not sure what the issue is with easy believism. I know it's not just 'repeat a prayer after me '...but it isn't hard to believe on Jesus Christ.

The Reformation connection is that they have a human founder from the Protestant reformation. Most of them don't seem Calvinist but Armenian with loss of salvation possible. I was going to the odd Baptist Union church service and that was all I knew of Baptists until the mid 2000s. Then I was introduced to my first indy bap church. Yea that is the case mostly with NZ Baptist Union churches here

Here in NZ the English Baptist Union is the predominant form of Baptist in NZ. They are mostly Pentecostal and are little different to other mainline denominations like Methodists and Anglicans that have gone charismatic. Independent Baptist churches here most people don't know much about. What is your experience of Baptist Union churches?

Seems to be a good excerpt on this topic from here: https://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-are-historical-and-scriptural-facts-about-fermented-drinks-bible

I remember being taught that wine in the bible is mostly grape juice.. with a little bit of alcohol to purify it. That it is very low alcohol content. Jesus turning water into wine.. it would make sense if it was pure grape juice without even the little bit of alcohol. But it would be good to know more on this.

The other thing is : King James avoided the scrupulousness of the Puritans by keeping the original ecclesiastical words out. Those being congregation and assembly. They were still used in some occasions.. but were mostly replaced with the word 'church'. If congregation and assembly are better terms than the word 'church'.. then how does that marry up with the KJV being the only rightly preserved bible? I think it is the context of when the word church is used.. that makes the meaning a congregation or assembly anyway.. but why not just use those words?

I only use the KJV, but think I could use an translation like the ASB and NKJV along side it to get the right meaning of a passage. The flaw in doing this is if the KJV is sound enough, why bother with the other ones I guess.

Yeah.. I didn't mean the original copies exactly.. but the fact that the mountains of manuscript copies remain that allow today's scholars etc to do an accurate bible. I guess my real question is why not the ASB or NKJV that come from the same source material? My initial feeling is that the effort gone into the KJV and accuracy and reliability of it means the ASB and NKJV aren't really going to improve on it. Anyway, thank you sir.

Thank you sir. I'll have a good look at it

I have understood the preservation of God's Word thru all generations to be the available access to translate the original copies. I have heard though the teaching that the KJV, and older Bibles before it are the only ones that have preserved it rightly. I am not sure about this and would like to know how someone arrived at this teaching. I believe the Bible is inerrant, infallible etc..but have understood that to be the original copies.. not later translations. The flaw in this is that God is preserving the Word in all generations..and so the original copies aren't that. I thought that that flaw in reasoning is mitigated by the fact of the original copies being preserved in all generations.

Okay, well the senior pastor is on deputation duties around the Southern States. I'll wait till he is back..but it's good to know it's not really an issue.

I am wanting to join a church . I've been attending for a couple of months now.. I want to get a membership transfer .. and be voted in..but don't know if it is going to happen. . The senior pastor said it won't be a problem to get a transfer..but nothing has happened.. What do I do?

Canterbury, New Zealand.. Best: close to sea, mountains, rivers and lakes .. strong sports teams (Canterbury Crusaders in rugby have one 7 titles in a row against NZ AUS and Pacific teams.) Gets a good amount of sun. Worst: it's a stronghold for liberal govt support. If it was America it would be a blue state. So there is a lot of political correctness and feminism.