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  1. So, is scripture that the gifts ceased, but not forever? Fulfilled purpose for a time?
  2. I've been convinced that the spiritual gifts of sign gifts and ministry gifts have completed their purpose and are now ceased. And that it was the completion of the canon with the death of the apostles that completed its purpose. I have though heard from others about in Revelation with the reemergence of I think it was prophets, and signs and wonders. I'm just wondering how this harmonises with cessationism? I'm thinking maybe it's not the work of God using spiritual gifts but demonstrations of His power.
  3. Yeah, 'church fathers' ..I realise is too broad. There the thing of Catholicism and their main teachers. And also reformed church teachers. Early on there was already false teachers, pagan practices, idol worship and bishops taking power over multiple congregations. I guess I get to feeling a bit alone in my beliefs at times. Going back to the bible is the thing
  4. Someone in another site posted to me that the church fathers believed 1 Corinthians 13 to be about Christs second coming and not the completed word of God.. Is this true?
  5. I hear a lot about baptism of the Holy Spirit being pretty much the same as receiving eternal life. I have looked at the occurence of Holy Spirit baptism in scripture and haven't seen the connection. Jesus said He would baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire speaking to the disciples, but they were surely eternally saved before the Acts occurence. 1 Corinthians 12:13 is a main verse used to show HS baptism connection to receiving eternal life, but the 'body' is this verse is surely the local church at Corinth and therefore the baptism is surely water baptism. Paul being baptized by immersion in reference to Gods churches.. and the Corinthians also. There is also the Holy Spirit coming upon groups of believers in Acts.. but they are already believers and so where is the connection to eternal salvation? Your thoughts are most welcome.
  6. Yeah, that is a key comparison with latter days too.
  7. Reading through Jeremiah, I got a renewed perspective on the judgment God was giving Israel. Before I was thinking worldly, looking at the judgment as too harsh and to much punishment being repeated.. Then I realised first.. since God is doing something about Israel's idolatry, He is showing He cares for Israel. Second, God was forewarning what would happen to Israel/Judah. He didn't just wipe them out, do the judgment. Even though they were doing evil God gave them many chances to turn to Him. Third, the forewarning can be read as God crying out to Israel with a broken heart... as Jeremiah was in that state of broken hearted ness. So Jeremiah, despite the judgment and warnings can be read as a love letter
  8. If the perfect is not the completed revelation of Gods Word, then these gifts should surely be more obviously apparent among Christian churches. Most of what I hear is charismatic or Pentecostal emotionalism, with little reliance on the Word. But in regards to seeing 'face to face' .. The bible is like a mirror to us. It shows who we truly are by its teachings, inspired by God. Also the 1 corinthians 13 context is about incomplete to complete , partial to whole, progressing to finishing. So whatever is perfect , was incomplete, partial, progressing when Paul was writing to the church at Corinth. Jesus doesn't really fit here.
  9. Yeah, a church is the baptized believers that are members. The unsaved that go to be with that church aren't members of it until they they are converted , baptized and voted in to join.
  10. Widest circle = Kingdom of God Circle within that= Family of God- the triune God, His angels and His redeemed children past present and future Circle within that= Local body of Christ- an assembly of saved, baptised believers covenanted together to carry out the great commandment and commission with Jesus as the Head. Local and visible. A believer could have membership to the Kingdom and Family.. but not the body. If they join a local body- they have membership to all 3. When all believers are gathered in the Heavenly Jerusalem.. it will be a local body of all believers in heaven, still gathered, still visible. I think the majority of believers mix the Family of God up with the body of Christ.
  11. Through the bible their is two kinds of church.. The local body of Christ. .. which is a community of saved baptized believers.. does not include all redeemed. Then their is the all redeemed body. What we have at the moment is only the local body. All believers are not yet assembled in the heavenly Jerusalem. That is yet future
  12. Paul being baptized by immersion in reference to the local body he joined as well as the Corinthians who were baptized by immersion into the body at Corinth. So 'we were all baptized into one body..' Paul to the body he joined.. the Corinthians to the body they joined. Body as in assembly/congregation.
  13. We have had a lot of immigration. Especially pre-covid. Not really illegal though as I far as I know, because we dont have as large a place for people to get in unawares. Yeah that is the main reason. But itll be different when the covid 19 is less of a factor. Pro abortion.. legalise cannabis and supporting euthanasia are the next things being pushed
  14. Hi all.. at a similar time to the US we've had our election. We got a re election of the same Labour party, but it won even more convincingly. So labour here is middle left leaning .. but because we have multiple parties in govt.. they could invite in a more far left party. .. the green party So pray for us here.. its getting bit rough for the conservative leaning types. NZ is becoming VERY pc.
  15. You guys should see the NZ baptist church teachings. Mainly charismatic or Pentecostal, often teach eternal salvation is undoable, most often the sermons are topical rather than scriptural. There is a big congregation in a church in my city that used to be Spreydon Baptist church, we called them 'Sprayed on' baptist church. They may as well just be vineyard or new life churches, there isn't much distinctively Baptist about them
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