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About 360watt

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  1. 360watt

    The Trail of Blood

    The trail of blood book is generally accurate but not very detailed. There are other books that expand on its history like The Battle for Baptist History by I.k.cross or My Church by J.M.Moody
  2. 360watt


    You've also got missionary baptist churches that are pentecostal with mainly African American people. I go to independent missionary baptist but they believe all gifts have ceased aside from faith hope and love. So yeah best to see what a church actually believes rather than its designated label
  3. 360watt

    Christ Consciousness

    Not so much music as 'guided meditation'. Given a tape to listen to that is meant to assist you in being 'one' with the universe or a animal or object. Although there was atmospheric music in the background - similar to the alpha brain wave sleep music you can get on you tube. We didn't call what we were doing 'New Age' or 'Mystic' either, we called it 'mutli-level healing' We used to go out into a village near a ski field and meditate among the rocks and forest in the area. Felt good... but the foundation? Shifting sands! It is the bible that never shifts and stands firm.. the Word of God.
  4. 360watt

    Christ Consciousness

    About 15 years ago I was into New Age/Mystic beliefs. I believe I was saved before getting into them. You may say.. how can that be? But you gotta understand that 1) I didn't know my bible very well then-- I was about 21 and 2 )had been going to so called churches that teach vague doctrine. The other thing though.. is that when you are in these circles.. a lot of people will actually say 'we INCLUDE christians..we accept all religions' The group I was in would actually talk about putting on the 'Christ consciousness' This is not treating Christ as God though.. it's being like a gnostic and absorbing all knowledge about Jesus and trying to be Jesus. It's not 'putting on the mind of Christ' but treating Jesus as just another spiritual force to be drawn from. Anyway.. what experience have you all had with mystic/new age religion? (I know this covers a huge area of beliefs)
  5. 360watt

    Early church eternal security

    I think this line of reasoning also applies to gifts of the Holy Spirit. I imagine the early churches accepted faith hope and love as remaining gifts without needing to declare for a long time. Then with Pentecostalism and Charismatic influence later you see the reasoning of the cessation of spiritual gifts aside from faith hope and love being written about.
  6. 360watt

    Baptists that came out of the Reformation

    I agree with you that real baptist churches have been around since the first NT churches. Look at a book that records these churches in the Valleys of Piedemont in the Alps and Valleys I think of France that ran from persecution and lived in the mountains and valleys-- separate from Roman Catholics and before the Reformation. There pattern of doctrine is after the NT churches pattern and true baptist churches now adhere to very much the same pattern. Another book regarding this is the Battle for Baptist History by I.K.Cross There is also the Trail of Blood-- although I know this book kinda needs other books with it to tease it out more. It's credible history... but put in a way that is easily misunderstood. What I am curious about is the UK have their Baptist Union.. and that is where the NZ Baptist churches came out of. The NZ Baptist churches website has a pentecostal type of statement of faith. The UK baptist union.. looks like another reformation line -- the same kind of teaching and liberalisation of scriptures. But maybe like you say.. it used to have biblically straight baptist churches and then over time took on heresies.
  7. 360watt

    Opposing Theistic Evolutionism

    Another way of blowing theistic evolution out of the water is talking about Jesus' payment for sin and resurrection. The whole reason why Jesus did this does not compute with theistic evolution. It's the same issue.. what brings death in to the world. If it's just death before men came in.. natural.. what's the need for Jesus' sacrifice.
  8. 1 Corinthians 12: What is this a picture of ? A body of every believer? Or the church at Corinth and every other local church God calls His own? If you are going to call this entity every believer.. it does not fit with any kind of notion of being 'framed together, united, assembled, gathered..' or any of those kinds of words. But those kinds of words are what is associated with the body of Christ. It's like there is this automatic switch that goes on where as soon as 'body of Christ' is mentioned.. everyone just without thinking goes straight to 'every believer' or 'all regenerated' So anyway-- 1 Corinthians 12: (1Co 12:12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. one body.. with a member being an individual believer... this does not mean though that there are no other bodies.. the body in question is at Corinth. (1Co 12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Paul was baptised by full immersion in reference to a local body.. not Corinth. The other members of the church at Corinth were baptised in reference to that body at Corinth. No violation of scripture. It is also with the concept of the royal 'we'... a speaker could come to a church and say 'we' in reference to a topic.. but he is really meaning the church he is talking to. Or meaning His own church.. and there church.. as examples. (1Co 12:14) For the body is not one member, but many. many individuals in a local church body.. making the one body. (1Co 12:15) If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? (1Co 12:16) And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? (1Co 12:17) If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? (1Co 12:18) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. (1Co 12:19) And if they were all one member, where were the body? (1Co 12:20) But now are they many members, yet but one body. (1Co 12:21) And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. (1Co 12:22) Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: (1Co 12:23) And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. (1Co 12:24) For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: (1Co 12:25) That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. (1Co 12:26) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Look at this language.. these terms.. this is of something visible and united and assembled.. not 'universal, invisible' (1Co 12:27) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And here is the clincher! ye are the body of Christ--- who is the 'ye'? It is not every believer...! 'ye' is the church body at Corinth. And also--- using the word 'local' in front of church. This is a bit silly. Same with using 'local' in front of body. They are local by their definition! Church = ecclessia-- called out assembly, gathering, public meeting. Body- by definition is framed together, knit together, united, visible, assembled, gathered etc.. So the use of the word 'local' is a misnomer. It is local every time without needing the word added to church or body. Again.. there will be a church of every believer in heaven.. but that is still.. 'visible, local' and is 'yet, future' The state of all christians now is being part of the Family of God. That is not a body of Christ though.
  9. Yes, this is probably where I get a lack of response or non-plussed-ness from those I have discussed it with. A primary one that really shows the difference is 1 Corinthians 12:13. As Swathdriver has shown.. it's not a picture of a universal body of every believer. But this is a primary scripture universalists will hang their hat on.
  10. Yeah.. reminds of Jesus, in Matthew 18, telling the disciples to 'tell it to the church'.. Are they gonna be seriously talking about resolving a sin issue with a brother to a 'universal, invisible' church? Poppy coddle!
  11. Okay so I have many times tried to reason with universalists (those that believe the church or the body of Christ is every believer) ... to explain how 'the church' is every time of a particular assembly.. not a universal entity of every believer. I know every believer will one day be a church in heaven.. but that is not 'universal, invisible' .. it is still 'local, visible'. On earth now.. what we have is local bodies of believers.. not one entity of every believer that is somehow 'the church'. Anyway.. How do you teach this to universalists? I was one myself.. but no matter what I reason with in scripture.. pretty much nobody gets it! Any advice on how to explain this local only church to universalists?
  12. 360watt

    What is 'baptism of the Holy Spirit'?

    Thanks for this Swathdriver.. this is exactly what I believe but needed some re-assurance. 1 Corinthians 12:13.. gets mangled and twisted to mean just about anything.. but as these great preachers have shown..it's about water baptism after eternal salvation being given, that by full immersion, that is a pre-requisite to join a local New Testament church. 'Body' in 'the body of Christ'.. is a knit together, united, visible, assembly of saved baptised believers.. covenanted together to carry out the Great Commission and Commandment with Jesus as the Head.
  13. Okay, so nowadays.. this seems to have been twisted and turned to mean all sorts of things: Some think it is for an individual alone and is actually eternal salvation being given. The most common scripture quoted I think is 1 Corinthians 12:13. They are interpreting 'body' in this sense to mean 'every believer'.. so baptism of the Holy Spirit becomes the same thing as salvation. Some say it is not about eternal salvation.. but happens to the individual at water baptism.. so they get baptised by teh Holy Spirit aswell. Some say it is not about eternal salvation.. but is the Holy Spirit empowering an individual. I have learned it is not about eternal salvation.. but is the Holy Spirit empowering a local church.. coming to be with them 'in the midst'.. basing this off calling the 'body of Christ'.. each time referring to a local body.. or an example for all local bodies plural. So 1 Corinthians 12:13 becomes about people having joined the Corinth local church body.. since the surrounding passage can only be about the church at Corinth. Here it is talking about full immersion water baptism. So .. penny for your thoughts.
  14. 360watt

    What is a "Landmark" Baptist church

    No worries I have been under the impression that if you want to find a church God would call His own.. then you go to key doctrines that haven't changed thru the centuries since the first New Testament churches. So.. landmark baptists.. would call for 'not removing the ancient landmarks'.. referring to the the key doctrines of the early churches that should be kept in churches now if they are to be called one of Jesus' churches. I only have experience though of these churches being mainly non-calvinist.. and also non-armenian.. knowing mainly of churches in the Baptist Missionary Alliance and the American Baptist Association..plus a few here in New Zealand. But really.. as far as teaching goes.. my church would have the same teaching as a whole lot of bible Baptists churches as well as independent missionary baptists.. and there will be many many churches with no denomination but actually have the same teaching. There are also Southern Baptist churches that hadn't changed their teaching from the past and have the same teaching. Anyway.. I would need to look at what the bride of Christ is referred to in Revelation compared to the Family of God to give a definite answer.
  15. 360watt

    What is a "Landmark" Baptist church

    I am part of a missionary landmark baptist church.. independent missionary baptist. A key teaching.. which is not just limited to 'landmark' baptists.. is that the body of Christ is a local body and not every believer. I would disagree with No Nicolaitans that it is only landmark baptist churches that are the churches Jesus calls His own. There are many many many other churches that don't carry that name but have the same or very similar beliefs that would also be considered a church Jesus would call His. The teaching that the body of Christ is a local body only.. comes from looking at what the meaning of 'church' is originally. Jesus said 'on this rock I will build my church' .. is this talking about every believer.. or a reference to the local church -New Testament assembly that He would be building and continuing thru other churches? Church = ecclessia. Ecclessia- generally meant an assembly.. congregation.. And according to one scholar .. if it ever lost the idea of assembling and congregating it would cease to be a one. If it doesn't assemble or congregate.. it isn't a 'church' Every believer.. doesn't assemble, congregrate.. how can that be 'the church'? Landmark baptists I think would believe there will one day be a gathering of all christians together as one body in heaven.. but it is still a visible, local assembly. On earth.. now.. what we have is churches plural.. but not one church of every believer yet. The only thing I will add is that IFB is sometimes the same thing as Landmark Baptist. A Landmark Baptist church would generally be.. independent, fundamental, baptist.