Old-Pilgrim

All fine and good, however, I didn't see a need and stepped up to fill it, I was at a meeting where the issue had not come up, but for the entire week it was on my mind, not letting me alone. No one had asked, no preacher had preached about it, but I could not get it off my mind and had never given it much thought before myself. BUt it was so heavy on me that I sought out a pastor for counseling on it during that week. I didn't want to be a preacher or a pastor-I am a singer a musician, and that was what I desired to use for the Lord, but I can tell you, at the last meeting of the week I went forward and gave myself into service. You know how people tell of when the Spirit got hold of them for salvation and they just could not but step up and fall down and seek salvation? That is what I went through. And over the next ten years, though I tried to 'reneg' on that, my life fell completely out of control, and everything I went through, y choice or not, (and there was a lot I went through that was not my choice) all led me to where I am now-the people I met, the places I lived. I had never as much as been asked to teach a class, now pastors were asking me to preach, to go into various leadership positions. The only time music fell into it was as the hymn leader in one small church, EVEN THOUGH music was what I planned to do for my ministry.
So please don't seek to tell me this was all just somehow MY idea, MY plan, because I can tell you with assuredness, if I had my druthers, I would not be a pastor. And if I didn't KNOW I was called to it, I certainly would not be continuing in it, because it breaks my heart on a regular basis. NO man in his right mind would, I suspect, do this, for no pay, for no earthly benefit, unless they were called to it, unless they are simply lovers of pain. You know how much easier my life would be if I wasn't a pastor? I could put more effort into advancement at my job and make more money and give my wife a more comfortable life, but my time goes toward the work, not the job, but I can't imagine NOT preaching.
But apparently in your opinion God nevber speaks to His people in any way anymore, I guess. The Spirit doesn't lead? Does speak to us about the Lord? No longer leads us into all truth? Wouldn't that include the truth of a call from the Lord into some work? God doesn't 'call' to us to be saved? I know we are not to be seeking outside revelation of things not in scripture, but, well, when we pray for guidance in certain situations, do we just NOT expect anything because that would be extra-biblical revelations? john 16:13 says "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." So if the Spirit speaks the things He is told to us, would that not include a call to ministry? Apparently God speaks to us through the Spirit. What does He say?  Not feeling; conviction.  

I'm the only one on site.
 
Psalms 32:2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

I'm the only one on site.
 
Psalms 32:2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Most animals I like fine, especially those I can fry!
I've read many comments online regarding the shooting of the gorilla to save a child and it really lets a person know just how warped of mind and degenerate many in this country have become. I couldn't even keep count of the numbers of people spouting their "wisdom" of why it would have been better for the child to die than the endangered gorilla. That doesn't even touch upon the many calls for the parent(s) to be tortured, executed, fed to gorillas for "allowing" the child to be with the gorilla.
So many of the liberal mindset actually believe we can make the world perfect if everyone would just follow their way. Whether openly or inside their heart, many believe the elimination of those who stand in the way of their utopia would be justified and beneficial.
The devil has done a masterful job blinding so many and imputing horrible ideologies into their minds.

The 'crux, as you put it, is "were born...of God" - there is no "God's will" in this verse.

Sorry, I don't know any church who has a sunrise service, I thought that was only Catholics that did that.

One of the most freeing things I have ever experienced was to forgive a family member for committing a crime against one of my children.  Only by God's grace, mercy, and workmanship could the act of truly forgiving take place.  Indeed we should love, pray for, and bless our "enemies" (including family members) out of obedience to the Word...and to be pleasing and glorifying to our Lord.  When the Lord Jesus worked forgiveness into my heart....He also filled me with His love to such depth for the one that had committed the crime...that it's nothing short of miraculously amazing!  Even though my relationship with that family member was never the same after that....because of that forgiveness, I was free to love that one without reservation.  A quote that I shared in my testimony is a good one to remember: "Forgiveness is not forgetting, forgiveness is remembering it forgiven."  I'm sooooo glad that the Lord is so wondrously forgiving, and I want to grow to become more and more like Him!

A bitter pill to swallow:
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
I just picked a few here... 
"Be ye angry and sin not".... He knows we WILL be angry, we will have righteous anger for things which are sinful whether done to ourselves or done to those we love.
BUT "sin not"... that's the hard part. 
Is it sinful to wish another person ill will? To imagine actually murdering another person? Even if the ANGER is righteous... the sinful thoughts of retribution and "repayment" are sinful.
We see in Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
This tells us thinking of an sinful action is like committing the sin itself.
Matthew 15:19-20 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man..."
Out of the heart... these thoughts come about before the action. Even if we wouldn't commit the sin (for instance, murder), we have thought about it. 
Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
20 "Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head."
21 "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."
These are not easy things to do. Forgiveness requires something so deep we cannot fully do it ourselves, we have to ask the Lord to help us. 
AND forgiveness doesn't mean allowing that person who hurt us (or hurt someone we love, or an innocent or helpless victim) to be close enough to do the act again.
But we do have to remember... God forgave us ALL sins when we accepted/believed upon Christ for salvation. We didn't do anything to deserve it. Grace is unmerited favor.
We are not perfect as the Lord is, we cannot truly offer others grace (unmerited)... often times we hold grudges even over petty things, and we could all do better there as well as in the "bigger" things where there was true injustice done by an evil/unrepentant sinner.
But the final 2 things to consider:
"Vengeance is mine; I will repay"... It's God's "job", it's not our "job" to repay, and we are told NOT to.
And the second thing to consider is this: 1 Tim 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
Jesus offers salvation to ALL... God wants ALL to come to Him. We know they won't, but we should never wish that another person will "rot in hell" or not be saved. That is going against God's very will!!!
Dangerous ground.
Can we always overcome our sin nature and forgive others as we should? I shamefully admit, I myself struggle with some horrors committed not just on myself but on loved ones (which are even harder to forgive).
We need to take these thoughts to the Lord right away when we have them... admit we are angry and HAVE sinned (thinking ill will towards others, especially when/if we think murderous thoughts or desire that they will go to hell for eternity IS sin). God is the one who metes out righteous judgment. We are not in His position, nor should we ever think we know better than He does.
 

Not sure what catagory this should be in.
Do you ever hope that someone doesn’t get saved, so they can go to hell and get punished for what they did?
I used to take comfort in knowing that justice will be dealt out by God on Judgement day and in hell.
And child rapists well get a just reward from the hand of the Lord, but then the thought came to me, if that child rapist gets saved, then they won’t get a just reward. I recently met a Christian from one town along, he was telling me all his relatives, and making excuse for the last one he mentioned when he said his name, it was the same name as a bloke who many years ago when drunk took a car that wasn’t his and hit my brother who was out cycling, my brother was in intensive care and suffers some long term trauma, on effect was that he never wanted to learn to drive in case he ever had an accident and killed or injured someone.
It was a little awkward when he mentioned that, how would it have went if he was the drunk driver who almost killed my brother?
Thanks for your prayers, always appreciated.
 

I have no doubt earlier in my walk with the Lord I would have had similar or worse thoughts.
In recent years I've faced some similar battles that took much prayer and time in the Word to get me to sincerely pray for their salvation. It's bad when someone seriously causes you harm, but it's so exponentially worse when someone causes harm to someone we love.
All can be saved, murderers, rapists, government leaders who have brought about mass rape and murder.
Apart from Christ we all deserve hell. Even our "smallest" sin condemns us to hell without Christ. As Jesus said, who loves more, the one forgiven the least or the one forgiven the most?
Even if a person commits a vile crime, and at some point are born again in Christ, that simply means they are spared the same hell we have been spared from. It doesn't mean there won't be other consequences. As we see with King David, who committed adultery and murder against a noble, trustworthy man. God spared King David's life but yet the consequences of his sin rippled throughout his family and caused much heartache, pain and death.
The Lord commands us to forgive. In some cases that can be relatively easy, yet in cases such as you mention that may be very difficult. We do have the assurance the Lord won't allow more to come upon us than we can handle. Commit yourself to prayer and time in the Word concerning these matters. Admit to the Lord (He already knows!) your frustration, your anger, your difficulty in forgiving, and ask the Lord for the help you need in this area. Be consistent in this and the Lord will bring you through.
I still marvel when I read of the response of Job when so much tragedy hit him in one day, including the death of all his children. While I don't think I've reached that level, I know I'm closer now than I once was and it's all by the grace of God, His instruction, His leading, His helping hand.
You, those involved and these matters are in my prayers. May the Lord hold you up, steady you, as you work your way through this dark valley.

I think the loss of rewards may apply primarily to the 1000 years when we reign with Christ-since this is before the time all tears will be wiped away. So our rulership will be greater or lessened according to our rewards, perhaps? But I agree with Mountain, above, that once we enter eternity fully, those things will be gone. I wonder if everything about our human lives may be gone completely, fully realizing being new creatures. I may be wrong, but interesting to think upon.

i think they do that in Gretna green at the Scottish/English border
No I'm Scottish, I live in Wales.

A person can have a Christian wedding before the Lord even if it's not recognized legally. If the couple also wants the legal recognition, and things that come with that, they can have a civil marriage service too.
We should recognize that in God's eyes a Christian wedding ceremony is "legal" in His eyes whether the government confers governmental acceptance and benefits or not. The Christian couple married by their pastor before God is just as bound to their marriage vows as they would be if there was a legal certificate involved.
If we choose to refuse to have a legal by government marriage we should accept the fact we are not entitled to the various benefits which come with such and not complain when we encounter obstacles because of such.

What? I must've been sold a bill of goods! I was told that thunder was from the devil beating his wife.

I copy a post before sending it.

I think it originates not in politics but in the religion of the secret sociates.

If a person denies Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, Saviour, then they are denying Christ.
 

fun is good, i just wasn't sure for I am a bit of a genius.

"old pilgrim": Yes, you likely HAVE heard people say  that before, that there is (supposedly) nowhere in the Bible which says that Christians go to heaven. "People" say all KINDS of things.. especially undiscerning/unsaved people. But what does GOD have to say about it? That's the only answer that truly matters!  God's answer is found in God's word!
Romans 3:3-4 "For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?"  "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." 
God's word tells us exactly where "Christians" (those who have accepted and believed upon Jesus alone for salvation in the age of grace) will go... I gave many examples in the last post. "People" can either choose of their own free will to believe God's word or to reject it. I can't make anyone believe His word, no-one can force another person to believe God's word. Sorry, I can't help you with what "people say", only tell you that the answers are found in multiple verses in the Bible. 
 

Good points to consider. Would the Apostles have voted if Rome decided to grant such a thing? Why or why not?
Are we (American Christians) living our lives as the Apostles were, devoting virtually all of our time to prayer, study of the Word, spreading the Gospel and preaching?
In a country which votes for leaders, should Christians not only pray for and obey those in authority but also engage in the selection of leaders through voting?
Along with asking if the NT might indicate if Christians should vote, shouldn't we also ask if anything in the NT might indicate we shouldn't?

AMEN!

First, I would respectfully say that God's word DOES tell us the location of where we will go with the Lord when He receives us unto Himself.
1. Jesus Himself said He is preparing a place for us in His Father's house
2. Jesus Himself said "if I go" well, we do know He DID go, and we do know where He went.. He is currently at the right hand of the Father in heavenly places (Eph 8:20) in heaven (Acts 7:55) and many other verses tell us where He went and where He now currently is.
    He said He will ascend to His Father (John 20:17)
3. So we have setlled where Jesus went and where Jesus is, this is the same place He is preparing a place for us at. 
We can surely deduce that Heaven (where Jesus and God are and where Jesus ascended to) is where His Father's house is!
It would make no sense at all to say His Father's house is anywhere other than heaven, since Jesus Himself said He was going there (and the Bible gives plenty of reference to that place being heaven), and that is where Jesus Himself is preparing a place for us in His Father's house.
Also He tells us to "seek those things which are above" (Col. 3:1) and in the same verse specifies this is where He is sitting on the right hand of God.
3. This is the same place Jesus was before He came the first time (John 3:13) and that place is heaven.
Just wondering how you can say "it doesn't say where his father's house will be located"???
If (and it IS true) Jesus ascended to heaven
and IF (and it IS true) that Jesus is currently at the right hand of the Father in heaven
and IF (and it IS true) Jesus Himself is currently preparing a place for us
HOW could He be making prepartations in His Father's house anywhere else than heaven? Since we have already deduced in fact that Jesus IS currently in heaven at the right hand of God!
And IF you believe He is preparing a place somewhere else.. why then does God's holy word say this in Colossians 3:1  "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."
I kinda maybe think I know where this argument may have been heading... But the fact of the matter is God's word is important and so important that we need to revere Him and His word literally. 
He said He was going to His Father, He said His Father is in heaven, He word says He is at the right hand of the Father IN HEAVEN.
So obviously He is preparing this place, and He is IN heaven as He is preparing it.

Another important thing to note, is Jesus said He will "receive" us "unto Himself"
That does NOT say he will physically come to earth... it says He will come again... but doesn't say come to the earth, it says the REASON for coming is to receive us unto Himself. 
It well fits with 1 Thes 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
We see there we shall be caught up together in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air!
This cannot be the same event as this:
Zech 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
In one event (the rapture/ the catching up) occurs in the clouds and in the air.
The other event (the actual second coming to earth) shows Jesus literally standing upon the earth on the mount of Olives.
Which one of those above (1 Thes. 4:17 OR Zech 14:4) sounds more like He is "receiving" us "unto Himself"? 
John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
John 6:62 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?"
John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God"
Romans 8:34 "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us."
Ephesians 8:20 "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places"
Colossians 3:1 "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."
 

There has been much online about that operation.
I had not heard of the Catholic story. You are absolutely correct that any other institution would have long ago been sued out of existence and shut down by government force. A Christian school in a nearby state had one worker accused of one time touching a student inappropriately and law enforcement and prosecution hit that school like it was a terrorist camp. The school was shut down. Even after the investigations showed it was one man who had committed one crime, the entire school was condemned and denied reopening.

In some parts of America the Masons are very connected, even in many churches. Some smaller towns are virtually run by the Masons. One town in Kentucky I'm familiar with the membership in the Masons lodge and Baptist church are almost identical. The main businesses in town are all owned by Masons. The local police is mostly Mason.
The conversations most Christians around here have are little different than those of the non-church goers. Superficial political talk, more about TV and sports which they can often go into detail about.
I've actually had Christians tell me I don't need to talk about things related to Jesus and the Bible so much. They tell me there is more to life than that. How sad.