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1Timothy115

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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  1. Like
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from HappyChristian in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Folks could do what the Bible instructs wives to do if they have a question: 1 Corinthians 14:35   "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home:" So, if you're a husband or single, study and or ask your pastor. The age of the microwave 'can't wait for my soup to heat up,' has invaded Bible study. Don't we have time to spend on here debating over the need for changes to English? So, why can't folks devote more time to the things that are eternal and forsake some of the present, go study.
  2. Like
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from HappyChristian in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Just a suggestion: Folks could use their 'smart' phone to look up word meaning? Most people who wouldn't understand 1769 English have a 'smart' phone.
  3. Like
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from Pastor Scott Markle in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Did you use the microwave oven method of study? Add a few more seconds next time.
    The American Bible Society, which publishes the KJV, documented about 24,000 revisional changes from 1611 to 1769, mostly spelling but also additions and deletions of phrases, changes of word meanings, grammatical forms, tenses, gender, numbers and capitalizations!
    www.truth.sg/Which%20KJV,%201611%20Or%201769,%20Do%20You%20Use.pdf
  4. Like
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from Alan in After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'   
    Alan, Sorry I missed this before. I look forward to the PDF and sharing it with my wife.
  5. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Alan in After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'   
    The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the ‘After the Tribulation’ Gathering in Israel
    The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that “at one time” the Jews were God’s elect, or chosen, people, and that those who (Orthodox Jews or religionists in Christendom), teach that the Jews will be gathered back to the land of Israel are in error. Please take careful note. To the Jehovah's Witnesses, “Christendom” is completely apostate.
    First. The Jehovah’s Witnesses state at one time (not now), the Jews were God’s chosen people.
    “Bible prophecy proves beyond a question of doubt that the nation of Israel was at one time God’s chosen people. The Orthodox Jews and many religionists of “Christendom” believe that Bible prophecy foretells that the Jews will be regathered once more into their “Holy Land of Palestine.” They claim that that time is now here and that their effort in that direction is in fulfillment of these prophecies.”i
    Second. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the gathering of the Jews in fulfillment of Jeremiah 32:37 occurred after the Babylonian Captivity. This is a partial truth. They ignore Jeremiah 23:5-8 that clearly prophesy of a more permanent, complete, and different, gathering And, they believe, that the ‘Israel of God,’ or, ‘Jews inwardly,’ or, ‘spiritual Israelites’ have now become the ‘gathered’ people.
    “They [ apostate Christendom ] do not realize that the first or miniature fulfillment of that promise [ Jeremiah 32:37 ] applied to the Jewish remnant that returned from Babylon in 537 B.C. and that the major or complete fulfillment applied to the “Israel of God” made up of ‘Jews inwardly’ or spiritual Israelites who come out from captivity to this Babylonish world. ( Galatians 6:16 ) From and after A.D. 1919 these have been gathered into the earthly condition of Jehovah God’s favor as his witnesses and as ambassadors of his kingdom established in the hands of the Messiah.”ii
    Third. The Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the future restoration, or gathering, of the Jews in fulfillment to scripture.
    “If more Jews are in the future gathered to Palestine, it will only be a political, humanitarian gesture, and not of God’s provision according to prophecy. God’s promises concerning restoration are being fulfilled upon his spiritual Israelites, Jehovah’s witnesses, who are the remnant of faithful followers of His Messiah.”iii
    Fourth. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that it is a false hope in the mass conversion and regathering of the Jews to Israel.
    “The facts and prophecies prove that the natural Jews will never again be a chosen, regathered people. They have as a people flagrantly rejected the Messiah, his truth and his kingdom. It is a false hope that they must be regathered to Palestine and be converted in mass to Jesus Christ prior to his second coming and as a sign of the early establishment of his kingdom.”iv
    Please take careful note. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are careful to say, “Palestine,” and not the nation of Israel, or the land of the Jews, or Israel. Also, like Philip Mauro, Pastor Steven Anderson, and many other false teachers who teach Replacement theology, use terms, in a derogatory and sarcastic, manner, such as, ‘natural Jews’ or ‘Israel after the flesh,’ in an effort to discredit, humiliate, and to try to demean the sons of Jacob.
    The Jehovah’s Witnesses misuse Jeremiah 32:37 and Romans 11:1-2. They ignore Jeremiah 23:5-8, and dis-believe the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the prophecy of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:31
    Conclusion. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the events, ‘after the tribulation,’ that occur as written in Matthew 24:29-31, in their own way, are symbolic, or spiritual, in nature. They teach that there is no restoration of the Jews in the land of Israel and no mass conversion as a nation ‘after the tribulation.’
    Basically, the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses concerning Matthew 24:29-31 are similar, not exactly alike, to the beliefs of Preterism and Steven Anderson.
    i Let God Be True, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, (Brooklyn: NY), 1946, Page 198.
    ii Let God Be True, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, (Brooklyn: NY), 1946, Page 205-206.
    iii Let God Be True, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, (Brooklyn: NY), 1946, Page 207-208.
    iv Let God Be True, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, (Brooklyn: NY), 1946, Page 208-209.
  6. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Alan in After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'   
    The Mourning of the Nation of Israel
    Revelation 1:7, “Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindred's of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
    Revelation 1:7 is the fulfillment of the prophecy by the prophet Zechariah. Zechariah 12:9-14, “And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.”
    “… after the tribulation ...” the gathered remnant of the Jews, according to the prophet Zechariah will “mourn” as a nation. The prophet Zechariah goes into detail and lists the various houses, tribes, and the families of those houses and tribes that will mourn. These details are observable, literal, tangible, and are clearly of the restored nation of Israel.
    The Unbelief of Zechariah 12:9-14 and Matthew 24:30 by the Preterists
    In his comments on Acts 2:37 Philip Mauro states that that this is the “mourning” of the individuals at the day of Pentecost after Peter’s sermon. Mauro also states that the listing of the families by Zechariah is not literal as Zechariah states but “signifies” repentance. So, Mauro teaches that Zechariah 12:9-14 was fulfilled at the day of Pentecost and there will be no future fulfillment. Mauro states,
    “Moreover they also mourned for him, as the prophecy foretold. For it is recorded that “they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? That was indeed “a great mourning in Jerusalem”; for it resulted in the conversion of “about three thousand souls.”
    It should be observed further that, according to the prophecy, every family was to mourn apart, and their wives apart. Which signifies that “repentance unto life” and the “godly sorrow” that leads to it, were to be a personal and individual, and not a national affair, as the Jewish rabbis taught (and as some Christian teachers wrongly teach today).” Mauro, Philip, The Hope of Israel: What Is it? (Boston, MA: Hamilton Brothers,1929), p.100
    When the apostle Peter preached at the day of Pentecost there was a great result of 3,000 people being saved. Please take careful note that Peter does not state that the results were a fulfillment of Zechariah 12:9-14
    Philip Mauro is wrong in his interpretation of Zechariah12:9-14, Matthew 24:30 and Acts 2:36. The Lord Jesus prophesied “after the tribulation” there will be a gathering of the ‘elect,’ the nation of Israel, and they will ‘mourn’ exactly as the prophet Zechariah prophesied.
    Also, in an effort to malign those Bible teachers who believe in a national mourning, and salvation experience of the Jews ‘after the tribulation,’ Mauro states, “as the Jewish rabbis taught (and as some Christian teachers wrongly teach today).” Philip Mauro is the false teacher.
    The prophet Zechariah taught that there will be a national mourning for the children of Israel. The Lord Jesus plainly prophesied that this will be fulfilled ‘after the tribulation.’
    Philip Mauro does not believe that the prophecy of Zechariah will be fulfilled ‘after the tribulation’ as the Lord Jesus prophesied.
     
  7. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Alan in After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'   
    Matthew 24:29-31, After the tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'
    Matthew 24:29, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.”
    “… after the tribulation ...” these events will take place.
    Matthew 24:30, “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
    Revelation 1:7, “Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindred's of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
    Revelation 1:7 is the fulfillment of the prophecy by the prophet Zechariah. Zechariah 12:9-14, “And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.”
    Matthew 24:31 “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
    “...with a great sound of a trumpet ...” In Numbers 10:1-10 God commanded Moses to have two trumpets of silver made for eight (8) reasons:
    “For the calling of the assembly.”
    “For the journeying of the camps.”
    “For the princes to assemble at the tabernacle.”
    “For an alarm.”
    “For days of gladness.”
    “For the solemn days.”
    “For the beginning of the months.”
    “For the sacrifice of the peace offerings.”
    Two of the specific reasons was for the “calling of the assemblies and journeying of the camp.” Numbers 1:1 & 2, “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them, for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.”
    The context of the passage will tell us the reason for the blowing of the trumpet and who blows the trumpet. So, the trumpet in Matthew 24:31 was to call together, by angels, the Jews, the elect, from around the world to assemble the congregation in Israel. The 7 angels in Revelation 8:2 are given 7 trumpets to sound an alarm for war and for judgment and not for calling an assembly for any reason.
    Therefore, the angels sounding trumpets in Matthew 24:31 are not connected to the 7 angels given 7 trumpets in Revelation 8:2
    The root word of elect is to choose. Concerning the house of Israel being the elect, the Apostle Paul clearly states in Romans 11 that God has not cast away His people, His elect, His chosen, the Jews, and that, in every age, there is a remnant of the chosen Jews. Romans 11:1, “I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin… Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.” Therefore, the “elect' in Matthew 24:31 is the saved remnant of the house of Israel.
    The prophet Isaiah also prophesied the gathering of the Jews from the various nations of the world. “And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” Isaiah 11:11 & 12
    The prophet Ezekiel also prophesied of the gathering of the Jews from the various nations of the world. Ezekiel 28:24-26, “And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor any grieving thorn of all that are round about them, that despised them: and they shall know that I am the Lord GOD. Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob. And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God.”
    The Lord Jesus prophesied, “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” Matthew 24:31 The words of the Lord Jesus prophesying the gathering of the “elect,” or, as Jeremiah states, “the house of Israel,” or as Isaiah states, “the outcasts of Israel,” is in fulfillment of Jeremiah 23:7 & 8, Isaiah 11:11 & 12, and Ezekiel 28:24-26
    God said, “For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations.” Deuteronomy 7:6-9
    God, because of His mercy and His faithfulness, God will keep this, and all of the other, “oaths,” promises, and covenants that He made to the Jewish race. Every word, of every oath, promise, covenant, and prophecy given to the Jewish race will be fulfilled. The Lord Jesus said, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” Matthew 24:35 The Lord Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17-18
    The oaths, promises, covenants, and prophecies given by the Old Testament prophets, are literal and every word, every letter (or tittle), will be fulfilled as written to whom the prophecy was written to.
    In the context of Jeremiah 23:7-8, Isaiah 11:11-12, Matthew 23:37-39, and Matthew 24:31, the meaning of the word “gathering” is to bring the Jews, the elect, in a gradual process, from the four winds of the earth, from every nation, as Moses gathered the house of Israel together in Egypt, as a hen gathers her chicks, and the shepherd gathers his flocks, back to the nation of Israel.
    Therefore, the “elect” that the Lord Jesus refers to in Matthew 24:31 is the the saved remnant of the house of Israel that is gathered from the entire world and returned to the land of Israel during the 7 Year Tribulation period.
    Conclusion
    Therefore, in Matthew 24:29-31 we read of the gathering of the Jewish remnant from the nations of the world “after the tribulation.” This gathering is in fulfillment of the prophecies of the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea and Zechariah.
     
     
  8. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Alan in The KJV and the Usage of Non-KJV's   
    Brethren,
    One of the main reasons why I joined OnLineBaptist was its adherence to the  King James Version of the Bible as the only version in the English language to be used as a scripture reference.
    Most of the folks here on OnLineBaptist know my stand for the KJV and my revulsion (yes, you read that correctly: revulsion), for any of the new versions (including the NKJV).
    After a thorough study of the issue (privately and up to a PhD in education), of the different versions of the Bible, I have long ago came to the conclusion that since the Revised Version (RV), of 1881 until the New King James Version (NKJV), all of these versions are corrupt in manuscript evidence, scholarship, integrity, and honestly.
    The current trend of folks using the newer versions on OnLineBaptist without the common courtesy to even mention which version they used, in my eyes, is deceitful. When a person signs on onto OnLineBaptist they know the rules concerning quoting from any version other than the KJV. So, in my eyes, the non-mentioning of which version they used is deliberate.
    Furthermore, intellectual honesty, a prerequisite for any serious Bible discussion, demands that the user of another person's material that is copyrighted to make known the material that they use. In the case of Bible versions, the abbreviated letters are enough; NIV, RV, RSV, NKJV, etc... This practice is well known, so, the usage of a non-KJV scripture passage, and not mentioning the version, in my eyes, is intellectually dis-honest. 
    Forgive me for being so blunt. To me this is a cardinal issue of extreme importance.
    Lastly, when an author makes a mistake, he should go back and correct that mistake. In the current case in point, the individuals who used a non-King James Version, needs to go back to every time they used the non-King James Version and either delete the reference, strike out the offending passage, or delete the entire passage.
    Regards,
    Alan
  9. LOL
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from HappyChristian in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    I think "rant" should be removed from present use and substituted with "wild vehement action." Of course someone will come along and ruin it by making their own language changes. Then I'll have to declaim them violently. Couldn't resist 🤣.
  10. Like
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from Alan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Did you use the microwave oven method of study? Add a few more seconds next time.
    The American Bible Society, which publishes the KJV, documented about 24,000 revisional changes from 1611 to 1769, mostly spelling but also additions and deletions of phrases, changes of word meanings, grammatical forms, tenses, gender, numbers and capitalizations!
    www.truth.sg/Which%20KJV,%201611%20Or%201769,%20Do%20You%20Use.pdf
  11. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Salyan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    I'm sorry, but that's just not a good enough reason to mess with a Bible translation. And your reasoning is just so... modern. If a word seems odd to you because you don't hear it used regularly, then start using it regularly, and it'll soon stop sounding odd.  And if you want to remember words better, then you could write the definition in the margin for next time (it's probably not a great argument to suggest you're reading your Bible through so irregularly - not that I can judge!). All the objections above are easily remedied by people simply expanding their vocabulary - which is a perfectly reasonable thing to expect adults (and children) to do. 
    Wow - I had to look that one up! That doesn't happen very often! Now that I've looked it up, I know it so no need to change. (kidding.. kinda)

    The definition of that word is BRUIT, n. Report; rumor; fame. BRUIT, v.t. To report; to noise abroad
    Which specific word would you suggest changing it to? Let's see if there is a precise equivalent.
  12. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Salyan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    This. Soooooo much this. There are plenty of words still reasonably commonly used in the English language that any one given person may not know... but that doesn't mean it is archaic!  Cue rant on the dumbing down of modern society...
  13. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Salyan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    My experience from people who claim not to understand the KJV because it's too 'hard' or 'old-fashioned', is that they object to the thee's and thou's and to the (apparently) big words.  I would contend that removing all thee's and thou's for modern pronoun usage would reduce accuracy, and ditto for "simplifying" words.  I'd really love to have the OP respond to my query as to examples of the words he would update, and their replacement, to see if my experience holds true. 

    Also, I object to your (earlier) labelling of various of us (assumedly including me, from your indicators) of having a superstitious attachment to the words of the KJV. I support using good English, which includes many words that are considered archaic to young people due simply to their poor grasp of the English language.  I have said nothing to suggest I have an overattachment to the KJV words itself. I'm not KJV only - I'm Textus Receptus only. What I am is a big fan of good English and not changing things just for the sake of change. Who cares if something is old-fashioned - there's nothing wrong with that! (That last line not directed to anyone in particular; just a generic rant.)
  14. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to John Young in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    The best ways to solve an issue is often the simplest.

    Practically all modern versions were made to solve the problem of "archaism" yet many still want to make another and another. I'm beginning to think our problem is not a lack of updates but rather that too many people refuse to give up the KJV for updates, so they keep offering us more.

    They ask: "How much change will you accept to move from the archaic version?"

    Here is my answer: Until the conversation stops being about the "archaism" in scripture and returns to the "purity" of God's word, I won't even consider your new updates, much less collaborate with you to make a single change.

    If you came to me and asked if I would have an interest in purifying and helping to convey scripture to a people who did not have a pure, accurate and precise bible in their language then I would perhaps consider the project. But I have no interest in the fools errand of changing the scripture from a pure, accurate and precise language into something less in the name of ever changing "archaism".
  15. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to John Young in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    It really depends on who you talk to. Its a very subject specific concept. 
  16. Like
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from Alan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Folks could do what the Bible instructs wives to do if they have a question: 1 Corinthians 14:35   "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home:" So, if you're a husband or single, study and or ask your pastor. The age of the microwave 'can't wait for my soup to heat up,' has invaded Bible study. Don't we have time to spend on here debating over the need for changes to English? So, why can't folks devote more time to the things that are eternal and forsake some of the present, go study.
  17. Like
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from Alan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Just a suggestion: Folks could use their 'smart' phone to look up word meaning? Most people who wouldn't understand 1769 English have a 'smart' phone.
  18. Like
    1Timothy115 got a reaction from Alan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    You can go on line and compare them verse by verse for several of your favorite KJV passages. There were grammatical revisions, standardized punctuation, and changes in the presentation of letters 'v' for 'u' is just one example. Go check it out, I did some 30 or 40 years ago and have forgotten most of what was done. The new modern English of the 1769 is preferred by many (I say most) but some still like to see words like "Couenant" over the newer "Covenant" [Joshua 3:11] but not me.
  19. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Jim_Alaska in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    This is the excuse that has generated numerous modern perversions of God's word. You are certainly free to use any or all of them; or update the KJV as you see fit. 
    I am no Bible scholar, but I believe that God is perfectly able to not only preserve His word as He has promised, but use it as He has to save the souls of a lost and dying world.
  20. Like
  21. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Jim_Alaska in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    I am simply amazed that there are people that find it so incredibly difficult to add looking up a word to their Bible study habits. It should be a crucial part of good study habits.
    After all, if you come upon a word like the one posted below; "besom" and you look and see that it means "broom", is it still not understandable the next time you see it?
    No, it is still understandable; simply because you have studied correctly and actually learned something.  
  22. Strongly Disagree
    1Timothy115 reacted to Jordan Kurecki in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    This is based on the Flesch Kincaid evaluation which is really flawed. That method mainly focuses on syllable length and sentence length. 
    it does not take into account difficult/archaic grammatical structure nor does it take into account archaic word difficulty or archaic idioms. 
    As for perfectly understanding the KJV, you might think you perfectly understand it but I highly doubt that. Even if you perfectly understand it now, I highly doubt you always have. 
    I am constantly finding things in the KJV that I have misunderstood and have to had to refine in my own understanding. My Bible is full of synonyms  I have written in the margins and explanations of certain idioms and such as a fruit of my own studying of the word of God. 
    The first time I read Psalm 23:1 Years ago I had no idea “want” did not mean desire but instead meant “to lack”. I have heard some refer to words like these as “false friends”, meaning they are words that you think you know the meaning, but because you are unaware that it has an archaic meaning and has changed meaning you won’t be as likely to look the word up in a dictionary. The whole “look things up in a dictionary” is hard to do if you don’t even realize a word you are reading has changed meaning. 
    Jim, I sincerely doubt you have not had many occasions through your Christian life where you did not have similar things happen with words. 
    It’s one thing to have a more mature understanding of the KJV after having had years of reading, studying, and hearing it preached. It’s quite another to pick it up and read it not having gone through all that. Learning the King James English is almost like learning a new way of speaking and reading. 
    When I first started reading the KJV 10 years ago I was frequently frustrated with some of the archaic words and there were many times where I assumed a word or phrase meant one thing and then later learned it meant something else. I have a hard time believing that anyone else’s experience has not been the same. 
    Let’s not pretend like the KJV is just like the normal or even formal English that we use today. There is a huge learning curve to being able to read, understand, and handle the KJV skillfully. 
  23. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Hugh_Flower in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Personally I see no use. I was not raised KJV but am now convicted in its usage as the purist translation.  I enjoy the older english, it feels set apart from the modern way of thinking, of Acadamia never not changing. Which provides the text an etheral feel of being unaffected by time. Which should be true to God's words, unaffected by time. 
    Its translation is so much more perfect as an experience of God, and by simply downgrading it to just a text or just another rendition of the bible, really is a disgrace. Where all other bibles are fitted to this world, we are fitted to this One. 
     
     
  24. Thanks
    1Timothy115 reacted to Alan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    In my estimation the poll title is misleading and should not be used on this forum.
    The poll title is: "Would you use a simple accurate KJV update?
    The poll title insinuates that the KJV is not simple and is not accurate.
    And, the poll title insinuates that that those who disagree are not willing to use an accurate version of the Bible.
    Furthermore, since the poll is public on a KJV forum, the poll, due to its misleading title will be sending the wrong message to the reading public.
    Besides being an inaccurate poll title, those individuals, such as 115 Timothy, here on Online Baptist who are KJV, and will not vote due to the inaccurate poll title and its insinuations, will not reflect accurate results. By the way, as with 115 Timothy, I will not vote as no matter how I vote the poll will not reflect my thoughts as the title is misleading.
    The poll is a perfect tool for those who despise the KJV to openly discredit, on a KJV only forum nonetheless, those who believe that the KJV is the only, repeat only, accurate English translation available. If the majority votes that that will not probably not use a "simple and accurate KJV update?" they will be made to appear to be dunces and idiots.
    In my estimation, this poll does not glorify God, nor the written word of God, in any manner.
  25. Like
    1Timothy115 reacted to Salyan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Why would you need to update anything? The ‘old language’ is still perfectly good English.The fact that modern folks are too lazy to learn the meanings of words is no reason to change the Bible. Save your trouble and buy a dictionary. 😉
     
    You’ve hit a bone of contention for me - not so much in defense of the KJV, but in defense of good English.  You can’t really ‘simplify’ something without removing the depths of the meaning of the larger words. I think such an attempt, if made honestly to retain the true meaning, would result in unnecessary wordiness and a more confusing text.
    Also, modern English has lost nuances — such as the difference between me and thee — an important difference in meaning that would be lost if the text was updated. 
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