1Timothy115

I am as sure as I can possibly be this side of glory that I will have a new glorified 'spirit' body when I am in glory. I have answers to both of my original proposed questions. This thread could be closed as far as I'm concerned.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. The scripture references I quoted are the Word of God without the need for exterior or added definition. I believe Jesus Christ is God and is my Savior. Jerry, if you have questions or doubts about it then, continue to read the verses of scripture in full context.

I understand Jim. I just don't want to argue or debate. I have this settled for myself. I will reiterate my previous thoughts and since Christ’s appearance to the disciples was brought up, I’ll add a little more. When looking at Psalms 19, it is best to read it slowly. 25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: 27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. “he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth” is there any debate about this, NO, most of us know the O.T. saints by faith looked forward to Christ’s incarnation, and hope for Christ's Kingdom eternal. “after my skin worms destroy this body” after when? (after NOW) while I’m (Job is speaking) “yet in my flesh shall I see God” before the worms eat my physical body. “I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold” with the eyes I have in my body, before the worms eat them. After the above verses are read, then we cannot leave out when Job saw God or, most likely, the glory of God (a theophany), with His eyes in his body before it was eaten by worms… Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Christ’s appearance to the disciples in the flesh was to prevent them from having a lingering doubt or, “Thomas” event. I believe, so skepticism would not be raised in debate between them. I may be wrong on the reason but, I know my Savior could have appeared however He desired. Christ chose a form they could see, hear, and touch (all their senses) to remove all doubt. It is settled for me. I have no problem with having a spirit body or whatever it is like as long as I can sit (however a spirit sits) at the Saviors feet, and in my right mind. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. No harm - no foul...right?

I won't argue with you, I provided my extensive evidence and my reasons why I will not have a body of flesh.

Read the verse you quote slowly then read the verse from later in Job I mentioned. He did see some representation of God before the worms ate his flesh.

Thanks Jerry.

Yes, he did.

I believe Job is referring to while he still has his body, that is before the worms eat his flesh. "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." ~ Job 42:5

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: ~ Galatians 1:15-16 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. ~ 1 John 3:2 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. ~ John 4:24

I did some follow-up research and have made a decision for myself. The following scriptures have provided me with an answer I can live with until Christ tells me differently. 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. ~1 Corinthians 15:35-54 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. ~ John 4:24 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. ~ 1 John 3:2 There are many Scriptural reasons for believing that we will be raised with the same body that died. First, Christ was raised in the same body He had before He died. We know this because the tomb was empty (Luke 24:1-6) and because His resurrected body retained scars from the crucifixion (John 20:25, 27). Since Christ's resurrection is the pattern that our resurrection will follow (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Cor. 15:49), then we will also be raised with the same body. 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. ~ Philippians 3:20-21 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. ~ John 20:26-27 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: ~ Galatians 1:16 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them. ~ Luke 24:39-43 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. ~ John 4:24 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. ~ 1 John 3:2 I will be like Him and He is God and God is a Spirit, so I'll have a Spirit body

Continuing to pray for both of you.

I can't see Dr. Bell allowing a Calvinist to preach from the pulpit...just wouldn't happen. Bell was firm on evangelism and soul winning outreach. "Paisley’s claim, therefore, to be a ‘Calvinist’ and a ‘Presbyterian’ are open to serious question. His Calvinist claims are open to question because of the evangelistic methods he employed. His mental and sometimes physical force conversions—getting people to ‘stand for Jesus’—have more in common with the Arminianism and ‘Revivalism’ of Charles Finney than with the theology of John Calvin." History Ireland However, Paisley may have been in a similar mold to Spurgeon, a Calvinist. Some 'Old school' Calvinists did preach Ephesians 2:8-9 for salvation.

There was no Calvinism in the sermons preached by Dr. Paisley when he preached at Tabernacle.

Hmmm... CIA... CIA!

Yes, he was a Free Presbyterian. I was privileged to hear him in person on two separate occasions. As far as Calvinist, I will not agree with you. The Free Presbyterian Church is a fundamentalist, evangelical church, requiring strict separation from "any church which has departed from the fundamental doctrines of the Word of God." My pastor at the time, Rodney Bell, Tabernacle Baptist Church, Va, Bch,, Va., and President of the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship, would not risk an association with someone who was not a fundamentalist. It was there, my home church, TBC in Va, Bch., where I heard Dr. Paisley preach. He preached salvation by grace through faith, and yes, against the RCC as well.

There is also the Samaritan's Purse, if you're considering a donation or to volunteer. Link Samaritin's Purse

I can think of one, now in glory, Ian Paisley, great orator and defender of the faith in Northern Ireland.

Salvation Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Work as a result of salvation 1 Corinthians 3: 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Recently at my local church too.

Just drifting through some scriptures and far more shallow than they deserve. I'll look into the days reference you provided. I didn't examine the gender of the word "perfect" but wouldn't want to argue over it, I'll take your word for that at present. Probably applies to knowledge and understanding.

I didn't know David Cloud had an encyclopedia. I may get one of these for my bookshelf. Yes, I may make a separate study of this but first I want to look through references I presently have. Sometimes the ISBE is good for questions like this.

Completely agree with the meaning of perfect being complete. Jesus Christ is the perfect to come. The second clause of that verse is where the thought came from. Will we have had our reconstituted physical body combined with our spirit and soul at judgement before Christ. It was just a passing thought; the context of that verse is about future knowledge and perfection after the Lord comes not about physical or corporeal reconnection with our spirit. Not in those verses anyway. Which brings me to another verse which may shed further light on what we shall be. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Timing between rapture/death and Christian judgement doesn't seem knowable. So, the second question of what we will consist of (in part or creature trinity) I was leaning toward Hugh's thought of spirit & soul. After the judgement, now I wonder if 1 Corinthians 13:10 can be extended to a new body.

If the Lord has determined a man or woman will die, His will be done, that person's physical body will die. I personally, can't imagine having a pig's heart in my body. I know of folks whose lives were possibly comforted after receiving pig's heart valve replacement. The one I know well, just passed away last year. I can't be so sure that the valve replacement wasn't just a "pain reliever" and that the person's later demise had already been determined by God. I know God has predetermined my physical expiration date and no pigs heart or valve will change that.

I can agree with part, I believe we Christians would have to have been judged by the time we get to the "great white throne" judgement because as saints I understand we will have a part, that is, if only as bystanders. 1 Corinthians 6:2-3.