I agree its traveling through and trying to discover whats going on in the Mystery of Iniquity.  Sin.  Its like trying how to figure out how how they manipulate people with television. When what it is in reality is a lot of sin.  Many people love TV.  TV is filled with sin.  We are to stay away from sin.  If people get involved with sin they are traveling through the mystery of iniquity and sin.  Which can lead to an unsound mind.  Which can lead to a sound beating if you are a Christian participating in sin.  So I stay away from sin  God is the author and finisher of my faith.  In God is life.  Sin is death.

Thats the problem some people have.  I'm not Mr perfect really I am not its a struggle if you will wrestling.  lol.  God's Word is very clear.  Some want to "rework" the Bible to fit modern day applications. Well ok.   Sodomites and harlot churches reworked Gods word to fit what they want.  Roman Catholics have reworked the Bible to to fit works salvation and Idolatry (we are only praying over and above the representation of the statue).  Also we must change the government.  Because we don't like what God has instituted and everyone  must serve the Pope.  Even heads of state. Government is a separate dispensation in the Bible.  They exist to keep order.  So that we can lead peaceful, honest lives.  It is for our good.  So we can raise Christian children.  Furthermore so we can preach the Gospel.  The good news. False doctrine says this is 2015 things have changed (that's the crux of it).  Gods word does not apply to this situation.  Gods word is eternal.  However not in this case.  False teaching.  Church's now in many cases are a political unit.  Not doing what was intended.  

One day many will discover we are a Holy Nation a people that are no people. Entirely separate from the world.  Can't have one foot in and one foot out (that's the other crux of it).

Well some people think the government are the oppressors.   When in fact they are there for your good.  What people are teaching today about government in contrast with what the Bible says to think about government in the New Testament.  Is false doctrine.  Gods word is eternal.   

This whole sodomite marriage thing is disgusting watching the news these people together.  Yuck.  I'm glad I don't watch TV at all.  I won't have to see any of this going on.  You see it on the streets but very very little.  Oh that television lol has taken real turn for the worse.  Thank goodness for some of the stuff on the internet.  I won't have to watch that thing (television) again. 

This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

I mean that verse gets me lol.   I watch all this going on.  Many are going to go at it tooth and nail over the next Presidential election lol.  I really like you folks.  If you followed a strict interpretation of the Bible.  You would pay attention to the Bible and forget all the other nonsense and really marvel at some of the stuff that's going on.  

I think what the Bible tells me to think in regards to government from the NT.  Of course there is more to it.  But God wants us to live peaceful, honest lives.  He also wants all men to be saved and come to know the truth.  So I pray for those in authority.  I can't help but think Paul was talking in Roman times.  Of course this was what God wanted for all times.  I mean ROME? lol that couldn't have been milk and cookies during that time for certain. God in the sum of it all seems to leave the Kings of the earth in honor and throws Satan out like a discarded branch.  For misleading the Nations.  I believe in a strict Bible interpretation of how to think about the government in the NT.  

I didn't even know that I simply assumed they felled the building for safety reasons.  You have to be aware there are agitators and anarchists that can put anything they want on the web.  People that simply don't like the US.  They could be communists,  socialists or just plain anarchists.  They used to distribute literature like that before the web.  I'd be careful who I listened to. 

Oh they can try.  Canada doesn't have freedom of speech in their constitution.   As far as I know.  From what I see on the web you can anything.   More than likely they will assail churches in some way other than that.  Like discrimination that would be my best guess.  If schools are accredited they might have to hire sodomite teachers etc. etc.  I'm sure there are plenty of political action groups you can join and fight back with.  Anyone fearmongering with freedom of speech I have to wonder what they want.  

Well I'm out there all the time.  I have never even brought up in my remembrance Sodomites when preaching.  I don't preach the government.  I preach the gospel.  Which really has not a lot to do with the government.  I will probably do that till the day I die (hopefully). Now some congregations are going to get in a big fight with sinners over sin.  There going to get into it with the government.  I don't see what a lot of congregations are doing now a days in the NT anywhere.  So I will stay out of it.  My comment addressing that possibly God lets and well this country is covered up in porn ( see my maps on how countries that have legal porn have legalized sodomite marriage ).  Preach the Gospel what God wants. 

I'm not worried about it.  I don't offend anyone.  I preach Salvation.  If they are offended by that.  Thats the way it is.  It's a constitutional right.  I don't represent any large or affiliated church.    

I wanted to put this up here.  Your good Christians. You didn't want this to happen of course. We have a  flood of porn.  Television filled with sin among other things.  Just remember God hands people over to a reprobate mind.  The floodgates are open now. I assume they are going to move to make this very acceptable to people I don't know. This could get really rough on a lot of people including the young people. What's good is we still have freedom of speech and we can preach the GOOD NEWS all day day long. The Gospel saves no other way.   Time to get to work.  

When I moved south from NY.  One thing I did find were boiled peanuts.  I really like them.  There is fried chicken in NY so that was nothing new.  Greens are ok to.  I like corn bread ok but it upsets me because it breaks apart easy lol.  So I take a roll instead.   You left out pecan pie which I really like.

The south is a friendly place to me much more friendly than hustle bustle NY.  Where you keep an eye out for strangers.  Then again I am not from NY originally.  I'm not a big fan of NY.

There are a lot of misunderstandings it seems Rural vs City I have noticed.  People that live in the rural areas afraid of the city because all the news is located in the big city.  Thats where they focus.  They think somethings going to happen if they go there.  On the other hand people in the city in a lot of cases feel the same way about rural areas.  Fear.  They aren't like me.  I get to observe both.  Its really funny to watch when they figure out that each other are Bible believing Christians.  lol.  More than interesting.  For instance Kenny Chesney concert   Lot of city people standing around.  I'm thinking watch this.  lol.  Not to many country western bands at the stadium in the city.   Handing tracts out left and right a lot of those concert goers saying bless you to me.  Those city boys standing there with their jaws dropped open lol.  I don't think liberal vs conservative.   City vs Rural really grasps whats going on if they get what they think from television and radio.  For example I think Deliverance a popular movie had a very prejudiced slant at the rural south. Among other things. Talk about not hitting target groups they just let it fly.  Unless of course they are trying to sell you something lol. 

You can be a Bible believing Christian,  saved by faith not by works.  Sealed until the day of redemption and vote Democrat.  Isn't going to affect your salvation.  I wouldn't make assumptions. If your poor your going to vote and think that way for your family. If you think the poor get robbed it becomes a cause.  It's a case of darn if you do darn if you don't.  You take care of your own.   I have been in that city for over 14 years.  Like hearstrings pointed out what was greater?  The salvation brought to the affected people that are now Christian or the war.  What brought more freedom?  What was more important. I learned that from Bible believing city Christians too.   Salvation is more important of course. 

Larry whats really scary you look more than a little bit like me lol.  I looked at your picture and thought it was me.

I just do what God wants or try to.  Jesus didn't seem to want to investigate the Roman government.  Neither did Paul or the Apostles.  Thats good enough for me.  I got friends that love this stuff you like. It's interesting.  Sometimes.  Some get a little upset if I don't agree.  I'm just not a conspiratorial minded person.  Like Alex Jones hes not the government has no investigative or arrest powers.  God gives someone arrest powers thats serious business.  All these guys like oh say Texe Marrs and the rest.  They have no official government standing none.  They don't keep order or have to put up with all the conspiracy theories.  That people use because they don't like the way things are or the way things are going.  So sometimes they use these to get done what they want to get done.  The US has to deal with all kinds of people from different backgrounds.  That aren't Christian in some cases.  Christians are supposed to preach the Gospel.  God wants all men to be saved.  When it operates well then we can live peaceful lives and some of us can preach the Gospel.  We are not supposed to harass them. 

There are all kinds of engineering explanations.  Deal is the governments not upset.  I mean the government did a thorough investigation.  These guy that have youtube channels and are engineers they don't have access and they aren't government investigators.  I just let the government do what does.  It establishes order and well I am pretty safe have never been robbed or attacked by strangers.  So I think they do a pretty good job. I did have one thing stolen in my life a vcr.  Thats it.  So they are doing what God wants them to do when he has us pray for them as far as I am concerned.  I have a peaceful life.  

I dunno.  People seem to do what they want in this country.  I'll do or try to do what the Bible says.  I don't care who likes it.  Prayer works way better than activism or trying to rally some like some special interest group.   Paul didn't give a rip about the Roman government.  Neither did Jesus.  Once again the Jews wanted the anarchist.  The insurrectionist released instead of Jesus.  The mission has always been the Gospel.  Not the government that included Rome.  Now many congregations feel that the mission or part of the mission is reforming the government. Using all kinds of fears to get people involved in it.  Some congregation wants me to organize, raising money also.  Like some activist group with all the anger stirred and go after the government no thanks.  God told me to supplication, intersession and pray.   I'll do or try to do what God told me to do.  I guess storming the capitals with signs, banners, bullhorns, building websites, saying all kinds of things in public.   That's what everyone else does.  Not in the Bible but hey. I want something I ask God.  I don't want to run the govenment.  I just want to evangelize and preach the Gospel.  

So whats going on now.  Many congregations are using the same tactics the Jews used against Jesus and Paul.  The Jews were under Roman authority. That didn't stop them.  They threatened disorder.  Stirring up all the people against Jesus, Paul and the apostles.  The Romans didn't want riots and anarchy.  Why many congregations are using the same tactics why I don't know.  Your a reasonable guy John81 some people aren't and get real batty over issues.   That by the way are still being used today Media (stirring up a crowd) does it all the time even against people they don't like until they get what they want.  Governments don't want disorder.  If there is disorder they will move to create order. Governments establish order that's what they do.

Well the Bible never said for me to have suspicions about the government.  The NT pretty much lays out how I am to think in regards to government.  Thats what i do.  Maybe you missed this part I don't know.

Romans 13  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The government does one basic thing in my opinion.  It keeps order in a time of Grace.  Thats what they do.  Its doesn't exist to establish Christianity or Christian ideal.  It exists in a fallen world with fallen men and all kinds of sin.  Establishing order with all people. Including a whole bunch of people that just might want at us. It also lets us be among them preaching the Gospel  We are a Holy Nation.  A people that are no people.  

So your saying John81.  All those countries that sent people to those wars. Based off of 9/11.  Including China and Russia.  All of congress.  The FBI, ATF  The CIA, Department of the Navy, Army, Air Force, Department of Justice the NSA.   The NYC police.  The State Patrol  NY, NY Transit authority and the FDNYC and NJ Police and Fire. All 50 governors. Those aren't 100 people in an auditorium.  They are people that have investigative and arrest powers.  Including a new opposing party Administration through 2 huge elections  are all just not saying a thing and satisfied with all the investigations conducted.  If we had a Dictator somewhere I guess but I don't know of any Dictator. The US has a worldwide reputation of being very open.  Even with scandals Nixon for instance    Investigations start with the government not the news or some anarchists with a youtube channel..  So you think 9/11 was a false flag operation is that what your saying John81?

LIst of countries that participated in invasion of Afghanistan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participants_in_Operation_Enduring_Freedom

List of countries that participated invasion of Iraq 2003

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_–_Iraq

I don't understand how 535 members of congress.  From 50 separate states.  With the authority they are given.  Could possibly all be on the same page in a conspiracy in a free country with freedom of speech.  I don't get it.  

Governments are another dispensation in the Bible.  My opinion.  

Romans 13  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Governments establish order in society and keep people from going after one another.  Without it their would be chaos  I actually like the government.  Doesn't matter who.  That really winds some people up LOL.  I don't do it to be part of a movement or popular.  Or for popular opinion.  Some acquaintances are every once in a while trying to get me to agree in some kind of low-down attitude towards the government.  I guess my attitude towards government isn't all that popular with some folks.  I don't care I am going to do or try to do what God said. 

I get in my big truck.  Go to the train station.  Into town.  Many crack deals going on around me.  People with guns.  I preach the gospel all day long stroll down the sidewalk.  Happy as can be greeting people.  Why Mr. Potato some have said to me I'm not going there without a machine gun. I don't have a gun, myself.  In that same area are dozens of police cars.  Police officers all armed with radios and dispatch.  I like them ok.  Because they keep me safe let me enjoy the city and evangelize.  If you look you can see Gods authority.  King David was an extraordinary in killing.  Where did that power come from?   You miss what God has does with authority.  Which I try to convey.  Your missing so much.  It's Gods power happening.  It actually makes teary eyed sometimes to see it. 

True there is Lucifer in the end he is a cast out branch the rest are honored the Kings.  This is one of the reasons we wrestle not against flesh and blood.  You have the Mystery of Iniquity  sin fallen world fallen man a lot of tragedy has happened more tragedy on the way.  He even calls the ruler a Minister of God to thee for good.  I believe its a calling.  So with that said.  That they are ordained of God.  Why should I listen to a guy that has a youtube account.  I don't care if he is a scientist or whatever that says 9/11 was a false flag.  Or some guy that writes books.  Or some Christian Identity guy promoting holocaust denial in place of what God has established or some conspiracy theorist.  They aren't government officials they are just speculators.  People listen to them some of its so absurd and defies gravity.  Some of its interesting no doubt.  I just don't look for things that aren't established or official its just wandering around in the dark to me. 

That would be more apt verse then. Acts !:8   But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

So that would mean to me don't sit around and speculate.  Because your not going to know.  You will have the Holy Ghost, Power of the Gospel  Preach the Gospel to everyone.  

Thanks Covenanter that helps a lot.  I'm was just looking at a consistency of the use of  the word TIMES in the Bible

But couldn't it also mean looking at whats going on in the world in the news?   Trying to extract and define what is taking place from a time in history or from a chain of events?  That would be my first assumption until I get stargazing.  Looking at the times we live in to me doesn't say stargazing.  Another words from what I can see in the Bible.  The word times is not used interchangeably with stargazing.  Not anywhere that I can see.  I mean could a false prophet or one that prophecies on his own.  Be an observer of times?  When those prophecies don't come true?  

Good morning John,  I don't know.  My problem is I see TIMES there and not stargazers   Isaiah 47:12-14 .  13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.

I am going to assume they inferred stargazing to the word times from something like that.  Times isn't stargazer as a word.  Maybe there is more to it.  I just don't get it.  Look in the Bible and Times is like Times time time and a half (Does TIMES mean stars there?) or what Mountain has there: It is not for you to know the times or the seasons. (Does TIMES mean stars there?)   I don't know I take it literally then go and read someones definition and get something else.  lol.   I don't know why. This of course has been going on for years.  I will look it up maybe twice a year.  Find stargazer as what Times means scratch my head drop it and wait till I revisit it again.   I have been stuck on that one for a long time to say the least.  I read the reasons and verses used to define times as stargazer by others.  Still doesn't get through to me.  I don't get it. If you or someone knows make it simple please.  lol.  I mean how to you get someone that looks at stars out of someone that observes times?   I just don't get it.    

Very interesting in fact I was just looking that up before I got to the forum lol about TIMES.   Now please take me with a grain of salt here.  Because I don't know.  I have visited and re-vistited this verse.  When I look this verse up on Google as a Bible verse it comes with a completely different definition of what this verse says plainly.  I don't understand it so I drop it.  I read it plain and think it means one thing.  I look it up and its something entirely out of context the definition by even people that have written concordances.

Deuteronomy 18:13-15King James Version (KJV)

13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.

14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Ok heres the problem with me.  I see this as TIMES.  Times in the dictionary means well like in the verse MountainChristian has there.  The verse I have just copied and pasted.  When looked up on google and some concordances says an Observer of Times is Stargazing?   Now I don't see anything there about stargazing.  Does times mean stargazing maybe I missed something.   You can see from the dictionary.  How the varying definitions confuse me to no end. 

Times                      from the dictionary

noun

That is very worldly, so wrong and unfounded. 'what is generally accepted as reality' by most in the west is what is portrayed on TV and Media, most of which is owned by about five companies, not Government. If you are serious about what you are saying here I would recommend to you a documentary by Chris Pinto called

Hi Pilgrim.  Delusion is in the Bible of course.  Like I say if every country on earth pretty much does not accuse the USA of a false flag for 9/11 with all the trouble that caused.  That pretty much says it for me.  That's an example.  The news media are not legislators or investigators or government officials.  So say for instance the Holocaust.  I am going to take the word of all of Europe, England and the US governments that it happened.  They had the investigators.  They were there.  They held a really big trial.  Another example.  The USA is pretty open government.  So.

I have read some of Mr Pinto's work he is an acquaintance with a  friend of mine.  He did some work on Freemasonry.  I don't believe  in the Freemason conspiracy as far as government goes.  However he did point out a lot of the founding Fathers were Mason.  The interesting part to me was the fact that.  All religions were included in Masonry and written in the Constitution that way.  It occured on me that is more deist than anything.  It was pretty good.  I liked that film ok it had some good points to it.  i'm just not a conspiratorial minded person.  The mystery of iniquity, sin, principalities and powers that's another matter. I try not to get to fascinated with conspiracies.  Although interesting.  I lived through Y2k some people were bouncing off the walls with that one.  lol.  I said forget it man.  Ain't gonna happen.  You have to take some things with a grain of salt I guess.   Governments establish order in their nations.  It's what they do.  It must be a real headache establishing order full time.  Riots break out.  They have to establish order.  Its what they do.  What was meant by New World order I can only guess.  Did different people mean different things.  In addition.  I am not challenging anyone but I would like citations from sources where they got the information where these people said "New World Order"  Also what they meant in context.  The end could happen in any number of ways.  I don't know how it happens   I'm an evangelist not a prophet.  Frankly if someones trying to sell me a book.  Believe me those kind of books sell really, really well.  I don't buy it.  A free you tube I will watch I like free.  Heck maybe worldwide famine or disease or even a nuclear war ushers in the Anti-Christ.  How would I know.  No one knows the day or the hour.