John Young

On 10/16/2015 at 5:13 PM, Alan said:

In order to know the book of Revelation the student of scripture must have a thorough knowledge of the Old Testament Law, Ordinances, Statutes, the Covenants given to the Patriarch’s and the prophesies of the prophets.

I think this is the main reason a lot of theologies get the events of Revelation wrong. Instead of searching the scriptures for specific answers to a difficult passage or term, they appeal to "logic", allegory, some event of history or current event that "seems to fit", or some other arbitrary idea or application. I'm convinced that every term and event presented in Revelation can be found in the OT scriptures and that we do not need to go outside of them in order to discern what is meant in Revelation.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 19:10d for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

50 minutes ago, Alan said:

I noticed that you 'liked' numerous subjects in the study on the, "Clarence Larkin - Revelation, study." I would like to thank you. I appreciate you reading the study.

I also noticed, after reviewing this study, and unless I missed something, you were not a member of OnLineBaptist when the study was active.

I joined in January 13, 2015 but had problems longing in at the time of the study so I was a member but hadn't been able to participate or read it. While I was familiar with Larken's teaching and charts, I left off studying Revelation commentaries until after I was confident of the general order of things from my own study. Particularly when it comes to Revelation, everyone and their dog seems to have an interpretation and news paper in hand and early on in my study it just seemed to confuse the topic. For that reason I didn't even take the Revelation class in college as I didn't want to get caught up in anything that might be wrong. So in looking over the review of his book and charts its nice to see that we are generally on the same track and that it confirms what I have studied on my own. I'm about halfway done reading the study and will let you know if I have any questions.

It can be described well enough to be understood what it is and that it is sinful and why and how the character got involved in it but it not to do so in order to give pleasure or delight from its description. Remember also, even the law of God is pure and holy but to condemn sin it needed to give examples of sin. It is not wrong and it is even helpful sometimes to describe it. Sadly many will take the warning and use it to teach them how to sin. Yet that is not the fault of the Law but the evil manifestation of the Law breaker.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

22 hours ago, Alan said:

Progressively in order, with some intermingling.

That makes sense. I see the events starting in progressive order with the the results of each continuing into the next. The Basic order of events being in four sections, at the end of which is a return for and a judgement. The 7 Churches he admonishes Holy Ghost Filled Saints and prepares them for His inseminate return for them and Judgement in Chapter 4. The 7 Seals is the events preparing the way for His Glory to return and cleanse the Israelite Temple and seal the 144,000 in chapter 7. The 7 Trumpet events are there to prepare the World for the return of the Lamb in Chapter 14 to set up his Earthly Kingdom. Then the 7 vials judging the Wore and preparing for the return of the Word of God and Jerusalem in Chapter 19/21.

Some of the best Fundamental Baptist Bible study material that I know of can be gotten from www.baptistpublications.org . It is a ministry out of Bible Baptist Church of Oak Harbor Washington Pastored by Brother Robert Sargent. They do not have an "online course" but they do have material showing local churches how to start their own Bible Institutes (http://www.baptistpublications.org/INST.html). Their source material is also set up for new believers to be mentored by an older believer in the faith. They have their teaching material organised in three groups "Basic Discipleship" (The ABC's of Christian GROWTH), "Advanced discipleship" (The ABC's of Christian MATURITY) and "Institute curriculum". In all the cost for materials is around $500, which can be bought a little at a time and is well worth the price and will provide many years worth of productive study. The main course descriptions I've posted below form their site shows what is taught and for how much each book is:

The ABC's of Christian GROWTH  $11.00 (PRODUCT DETAILS: by: Robert J. Sargent. Proven doctrinal and practical lessons to help disciple new Christians and refresh older saints. Suitable for personal study, one-on-one discipleship, group study, all-church series, family devotions, high school devotions, jail ministries, radio ministries -- you name it! It works! Requires students to search the scriptures (AV1611) to find Bible answers. Suitable for adults and youth. Lessons are based on the letters of the alphabet, with two introductory lessons (making 28 lessons in all). A - Assurance; B - Bible; C - Church; D - Daily Walk; E - Enemy (Satan); F - Family; G - God; H - Holy Spirit; I - Immersion; J - Jesus Christ; K - Kinship (Baptist heritage); L - Lord's Supper; M - Missions; N - New Birth; O - Obedience; P - Prayer; Q - Questions often Asked; R - Return of Christ; S - Separation; T - Tithing & Stewardship; U - Unity; V - Victory; W - Witnessing; X - X-Rated for Baptists; Y - Your Church; Z - Zion. THIRD EDITION: Revised 2004.  187 pages. 8½" x 11" spiral bound.

The ABC's of Christian MATURITY, Volume 1, $16.00 (PRODUCT DETAILS: by: Robert J. Sargent This Bible-study manual follows the format of the popular ""The ABC's of Christian  growth,"" and presents in-depth studies on a wide range of thought-provoking, sometimes controversial, subjects. It is designed to challenge Baptists to get into the Word of God. Suitable for adults and older teens -- a great resource for busy pastors. Two volume set. VOLUME I... A - Apostasy. B - The Bride of Christ. C - The Crucified Life. D - Divorce. E - Education. F - Financial Freedom. G - The Gifts of the Spirit. H - Hell. I - Israel. J - Judging & Discerning. K - The Kingdom of God. L - Liberty, Legalism, & License. M - The Mysteries of God. 204 pages. 8½" x 11" spiral bound.

The ABC's of Christian MATURITY, Volume 2, $16.00 (PRODUCT DETAILS by: Robert J. Sargent. This Bible-study manual follows the format of the popular ""The ABC's of Christian Growth,"" and presents in-depth studies on a wide range of thought-provoking, sometimes controversial, subjects. It is designed to challenge Baptists to get into the Word of God. Suitable for adults and older teens - a great resource for busy pastors. Two volume set. VOLUME II ... N - Numerology; O - Offenses & Forgiveness; P - Precepts, Principles, Preferences; Q - Qualifications of Officers; R - Repentance; S - Sin, Suffering, & Sickness; T - The Tabernacle; U - Unseen World; V - Preacher's Vocation; W - Role of Women in Churches; X - Xcuses; Y - Youth; Z - Zeal. 204 pages. 8½" x 11" spiral bound.

ENGLISH Bible Institute curriculum. 

Baptist Doctrine (In 4 volumes, $16 per book) $64.00 ( PRODUCT DETAILS by: Robert J. Sargent. A FOUR volume set of Systematic Theology, arranged under the following sections: 1. An Introduction to Theology. 2. The Doctrine of the Bible (Bibliology). 3. The Doctrine of God (Theology Proper). 4. The Doctrine of Christ (Christology). 5. The Doctrine of the Holy Spirit (Pneumatology). 6. The Doctrine of Man (Anthropology). 7. The Doctrine of Sin (Harmartiology). 8. The Doctrine of Salvation (Soteriology). 9. The Doctrine of the Church (Ecclesiology). 10. The Doctrine of the Unseen World(Angelology). 11. The Doctrine of Last Things (Eschatology). Four volumes, 848 pages. [Revised 2006] 8½" X 11" spiral bound. Based on the Authorized, King James Version and thoroughly Baptist. Because of the amount of material, our recommendation is that the first two books be covered in the student's first year, and the last two books in the second year. THE LECTURE HEADINGS ARE AS FOLLOWS: VOLUME ONE AN INTRODUCTION TO BAPTIST DOCTRINE An Introduction to Baptist Doctrine THE DOCTRINE OF THE SCRIPTURES (BIBLIOLOGY) The Nature of the Bible Revelation and the Bible The Inspiration of the Bible Defined The Inspiration of the Bible Demonstrated The Inspiration of the Bible Defended The Canonization of the Bible The Credibility of the Bible The Authority of the Bible The Preservation of the Bible The Translation of the Bible The Versions of the Bible The Student of the Bible THE DOCTRINE OF GOD (THEOLOGY PROPER) The Concept of God The Existence of God The Essence of God The Nature of God - His Natural Attributes The Nature of God - His Moral Attributes The Sovereignty of God The Names and Title of God VOLUME TWO THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST (CHRISTOLOGY) Introduction to the Doctrine of Christ The Pre-Incarnation of Christ The Incarnation of Christ The Nature of Christ - His Humanity The Nature of Christ - His Deity The Person of Christ The Offices of Christ The Atonement of Christ - Defined The Atonement of Christ - Explained The Atonement of Christ - Applied The Resurrection of Christ The Present Work of Christ The Future Work of Christ THE DOCTRINE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (PNEUMATOLOGY) The Personality of the Holy Spirit The Deity of the Holy Spirit The Works of the Holy Spirit Holy Spirit Baptism The Gifts of the Holy Spirit The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit VOLUME THREE THE DOCTRINE OF MAN (ANTHROPOLOGY) The Creation of Man The Nature of Man The Fall of Man THE DOCTRINE OF SIN (HARMARTIOLOGY) The Fact of Sin The Nature of Sin The Effects of Sin THE DOCTRINE OF SALVATION (SOTERIOLOGY) Introduction Law and Grace Repentance and Faith  Regeneration Justification Adoption Election and Predestination Sanctification Eternal Security Prayer and Fasting VOLUME FOUR THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH (ECCLESIOLOGY) The Biblical Definition of a Church The Church and the Kingdom of God The First New Testament Church The Relationship of Jesus Christ to His Churches The Government of a New Testament Church The Officers of a Church Scriptural Baptism - its Subjects Scriptural Baptism - its Modes Scriptural Baptism - its Symbolism Scriptural Baptism - its Administrator The Lord’s Supper Tithing and Stewardship The Discipline of a Church The Purpose of a Church THE DOCTRINE OF THE UNSEEN WORLD (ANGELOLOGY) The Existence and Nature of Angels The Ministry of Angels The Person and Nature of Satan The Works of Satan Devils or Demons THE DOCTRINE OF LAST THINGS (ESCHATOLOGY) The Course of this Age  The Seven Judgments The Two Resurrections The Millennial Kingdom of Christ The Eternal State

Old Testament History, $16 (by: the late Dr. Gary S. Prisk. Lecture notes covering the Old Testament in a chronological way from Genesis to Esther (Creation to the Captivity). 255 pages. 8½" × 11" spiral bound.

Personal Evangelism, $20, ( Robert J. Sargent. This manual provides an excellent tool for training men for the Baptist ministry. It is a comprehensive study in the theology and methodology of soul winning, emphasizing three important areas of personal evangelism: the message, the motivation, and the mastery of winning precious souls to Jesus Christ. The lectures are: 1. The CALL to Personal Evangelism 2. The REASON for Personal Evangelism 3. The MESSAGE of Personal Evangelism 4. The PROCESS in Personal Evangelism 5. The EXAMPLES of Personal Evangelism 6. The POWER for Personal Evangelism 7. The TECHNIQUES of Personal Evangelism 8. The CHALLENGES in Personal Evangelism 9. The SEQUEL to Personal Evangelism As with all Bible Baptist Church Publications materials, this publication holds the Authorized, King James Version to be the pure, preserved Word of God in the English language, and is Baptist in its doctrinal content. The book includes a Resource CD containing evangelistic Bible studies, and suggested student book reviews and assignments. 216 pages 8½" x 11" spiral bound

The Life of Christ, $10 (by: the late Dr. Gary S. Prisk. Lecture notes surveying the four Gospels, designed to give the student a working knowledge of the life and ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. 127 pages.  8½" x 11" spiral bound. A recommended adjunct and resource for this course of study is “An Historic Harmony of the Gospels.”)

Harmony of the Gospels, $20, (by: Robert J. Sargent. A four-column chronological harmony of the four Gospel accounts of the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ, accompanied by maps, chronological notes, and a detailed chart of the “passion week.” Unlike most other harmonies, this volume does not correct the Word of God and it presents a Wednesday crucifixion in accordance with Matthew 12:40. Fully indexed. Great library and study tool. Recommended for use with The Life of Christ course. 220 pages. 8½" × 11" spiral bound.)

Life & Labors of Paul the Apostle, $25, (by: Robert J. Sargent. This manual presents a comprehensive study in the life and ministry of the Apostle Paul, including a presentation of the geographical and political background of his day, the chronological and historical account of his life and ministry, and an examination of his sufferings and prayer life. Significant emphasis is placed upon Paul's "missionary methods," comparing and contrasting them which the methods of the 21ST century. This manual was written to help prepare men for the Baptist ministry. As with all Bible Baptist Church Publications materials, it holds the Authorized, King James Version to be the pure, preserved Word of God in the English language, and is Baptist in its doctrinal content. This publication makes good use of charts and maps to help understand the story of Paul's life — including a chronological chart covering the years of Paul's life. The volume comes complete with study questions and an assignment. The lectures are as follows: 1. The World of Paul 2. The Chronology of Paul 3. The Upbringing of Paul 4. The Conversion of Paul 5. The Sending Church of Paul 6. The First Evangelistic Expedition of Paul 7. The Jerusalem Conference 8. The Second Evangelistic Expedition of Paul 9. The Third Evangelistic Expedition of Paul 10. The First Roman Imprisonment of Paul 11. The Second Roman Imprisonment of Paul 12. The Sufferings of Paul 13. The Prayer Life of Paul 14. The Epistles of Paul 15. A Time Line of the Life and Labors of Paul 272 pages 8½" x 11" spiral bound)

The New Testament Epistles, Volume 1, $24.00 (by: Robert J. Sargent A New Testament Introduction (The Pauline Epistles) A thorough study of each of the 13 epistles penned by the apostle Paul, under the following heads: Author Writer Addressee Place of Writing Date of Writing Occasion forWriting Canonicity Theme Key Verse Style of the Book Outline of the Book Homiletic & Doctrinal Appeal Problem Texts Exercises Review Questions Includes a thorough Introductory lecture and a Background lecture. Designed for classroom lectures, but also eminently suitable for personal study and as a valuable reference tool. 240 pages, 8½" x 11", spiral bound.)

The New Testament Epistles, Volume 2, $24.00 (by: Robert J. Sargent. A New Testament Introduction (Hebrews & the General Epistles) A thorough study of each of last eight epistles contained in the New Testament, under the following heads: Author Writer Addressee Place of Writing Date of Writing Occasion for Writing  Canonicity Theme Key Verse Style of the Book Outline of the Book Homiletic & Doctrinal Appeal Problem Texts Exercises Review Questions Designed for classroom lectures, but also eminently suitable for personal study and as a valuable reference tool. 136 pages, 8½" x 11", spiral bound.

Expository Bible Teaching, $25 (by: Robert J. Sargent. A comprehensive study in the doctrine of the Scriptures, hermeneutics, synthetic, analytic, and auxiliary Bible study methods, coupled with the history of interpretation, a section on applied teaching and public speaking techniques. 332 pages. 8½" x 11" spiral bound.)

Church History, Book 1, $25 (by: Robert J. Sargent. A detailed study of the history of the Baptists from the time of Christ and the apostles to the present day — set against the backdrop of a general ecclesiastical history. Newly revised, with additional information. VOLUME ONE: From the days of the apostles to the end of the Dark Ages • An Introduction to Church History • Christianity in the First Century • Christianity in the Second Century • Christianity in the Third Century • Christianity in the Fourth Century • Christianity in the Fifth Century • Christianity in the Sixth Century • The Growth of the Papacy • Light in the Gloom: The Paulicians • The Golden Years of the Papacy • Medieval Baptist Churches and Groups • The Decline of the Papacy • The Anabaptists, 2014 revised edition 246 pages 8½" x 11" spiral bound)

Church History, Book 2, $28 (by: Robert J. Sargent. A detailed study of the history of the Baptists from the time of Christ and the apostles to the present day — set against the backdrop of a general ecclesiastical history. Revised, with additional information and updating into the early-21st century. VOLUME TWO: From the Protestant Reformation to the Present Day • The Protestant Reformation (Part One) — in Europe • The Protestant Reformation (Part Two) — in Great Britain • The Counter-Reformation • The Development of Protestantism • Roman Catholicism in the 17th & 19th Centuries • A General Church History in North America • Baptist History in North America • The Baptist Union in Great Britain • The Ecumenical Movement • Baptists in the 21st Century • National Church Histories (Australasia) 2014 revised edition 325 pages 8½" x 11" spiral bound)

Homiletics, $12, (by: the late Dr. Gary S. Prisk. A study in the preparation and delivery of sermons. Instructs the student in expository, topical, and textual sermons.125 pages. 8½" × 11" spiral bound.)

Bible Preaching, $15, (By: Robert J. Sargent. A training manual designed to be used by pastors and evangelists to train their men in the science and art of effectual Bible preaching. The book has two main divisions — the Preparation of Sermons (Homiletics) and the Preaching of Sermons (Oratory). The lecture chapters are: · Introduction to Homiletics · Sermon Basics · Sermon Types · Sermon Construction · Sermon Illustrations · The Invitation · Preaching Basics: The Setting · Preaching Basics: The Speaker · Preaching Basics: The Style. Each lecture includes study questions. There is also a preaching evaluation form, and two assignments. 192 pages 8½" X 11" spiral bound)

English Bible: Manuscript Evidence, $34, (by: Robert J. Sargent. A comprehensive study in Bible Introduction, tracing the history of the Bible from GOD to MAN — from God's revelation of His eternal Word to the Authorized, King James Version we hold in our hands. This manual was written to help prepare men for the Baptist ministry. It demonstrates why the Authorized, King James Version is the pure, preserved Word of God in the English language from a doctrinal, historical, and textual standpoint. This publication makes good use of charts to help simplify complex facts. It comes complete with study questions and assignments. Three valuable appendices list details of papyrus, uncial, and minuscule manuscripts; the translators of the Authorized, King James Version "Preface to the Readers;" and a list of English translations, versions, and paraphrases, etc. published since 1611. All are placed in .pdf format on a CD-ROM insert to the manual. The 14 lectures are as follows: 1. Revelation. 2. Inspiration. 3. Communication. 4. Canonization. 5. Preservation. 6. Desecration. 7. Emancipation I. 8. Emancipation II. 9. Translation. 10. Coronation. 11. Publication. 12. Discrimination. 13. Proliferation. 14. Altercation. 397 pages + appendix CD. 8½" x 11" spiral bound.)

Pastoral Theology, $40 (by: Robert J. Sargent. This manual presents a comprehensive guide to preparing God-called men for the Baptist pastorate. The volume comes complete with study questions and an assignment. It also includes a resource CD-ROM that serves as a companion to the lecture notes. As with all Bible Baptist Church Publications materials, it holds the Authorized, King James Version to be the pure, preserved Word of God in the English language, and is Baptist in its doctrinal content. The lectures are as follows: PART I What a Pastor Is His Mandate His Making His Marks His Manners His Mutualities PART II What a Pastor Does The Pastor as a Messenger The Pastor as a Master The Pastor as a Minister The Pastor as a Militant The Pastor as a Mentor PART III What a Pastor Grapples With His Money His Menaces His Moving 386 pages + Resource CD 8½" x 11" spiral bound)

Baptist Polity, $35, (by: Robert J. Sargent. A course of study in applied ecclesiology, presenting principles and practices for 21st-century Baptist churches. Topics include: 1. Baptist Distinctives. 2. The Doctrine of the Church. 3. Baptist Baptism 4. Church Membership. 5. Church Discipline. 6. Church Offices. 7. Ordination. 8. Evangelists. 9. Church Government. 10. Church Autonomy. 11. Comparative Ecclesiastical Government. 12. Church Ordinances. 13. Alien Immersion. 14. The Lord′s Supper. 15. Church Meetings. 16. Church Music. 17. Worship. 18. Church Finances. 19. The Role of Women. 20. Evangelism. 21. Organizing a Church. 466 pages. 8½" × 11" spiral bound. Includes a comprehensive resource appendix on a CD-ROM (adding another 265 pages). Appendix includes a sample set of By-Laws.)

Women in Ministry, $20, (By: Vicki L. Sargent. A complete training course, specifically structured to help train and prepare godly women to work alongside their husbands as pastors? wives and/or evangelists? wives. This course has seven chapters: The Role of Women in Baptist Churches. Your Perceived Life. Your Personal Life. Your Family Life. Your Church Life. Your Ministry Life. Your Approved Life. 216 pages. 8½" × 11" spiral bound.)

29 minutes ago, Alan said:

In the book of Revelation we can clearly see that the 7 Seals, the 7 Trumpets, the 3 Woes, the 7 Thunders, and the 7 vials run concurrently.

By "concurrently", Do you mean progressively in order, all at once, or like the first seal happening with the first trumpet, and first vial, etc?

1 hour ago, DaveW said:

What's so hard that people can't simply accept they were wrong and apologise?

I was clearly wrong above and just apologised for my mistake, but you have now given three different stories to try to get out of your mistake.....

I'm not sure why you keep thinking I'm making excuses. My replies are not excuses or "different stories" but my attempts to explain to you what I wrote. It is not hard to see what I meant. Even if its not to your likening. Obviously we Gentiles never have kept "the Passover" or are we to keep any OT or Jewish tradition. However, to ignore Passover events, and what they were called in the Bible and how they relate to our Easter events, how the Jewish Christians integrated them, especially in this conversation and particularity as to the details of Acts 12 where the only KJV mention of Easter is, is to be a bit thick headed. I've tired to explain what I meant several times but if you want to call my replies excuses or demand that I apologies for some wrong or error on my part, then I can't help you, because what you accuse me of saying I'm clearly not. If I confused or frustrated you in the way I worded my reply to Invicta as they relate to that week then I'm sorry.
 

1 hour ago, DaveW said:

Bit I find it interesting that you quote Scriptures regarding the practice of the Passover and the Feast of unleavened bread, but conveniently leave out the command for them. Thats because I'm only addressing one point as it relates to the verses. There is no need to explain every aspect of a verse or passage. 

The practice was not always right, but the command is unchangeable. Its what they did is the point, whither or not we agree with what NT Jewish Christians did doesn't matter in relation to the events of that week.

And there certainly has been harvest feasts of Pagan origin dating back to well before Christ, and at least one of them was involving the false God Ishatar which SOME say is where we get Easter from. And they would be wrong as linking Easter of Acts 12:4 and of Christian traditions to a Pagan day has very clearly shown to be wrong by every reputable study done on the matter. 

I don't know who it was nor when Easter was associated with Passover, but to totally disregard the pagan association is just not really very genuine. Its genuine to ignore it because its not a reputable association. Alexander Hilsop made it up for his book "the two Babylons". I provided a good link above. Feel fee to investigate it if you like.

And such feasts are known to be associated with this time of year for in the northern hemisphere that time is the beginning of harvest (generally). Intersting also that such feasts are times according to the moon phases.

Passover is a specific date in the Jewish calendar. Yes its a specific date that falls within the week of unleavened bread every year.

I just don't particularly like it when people make statements that are incorrect and basically try to bully people into accepting them. I can't help what you think is incorrect or not, or with what you decided to take issue, or what anyone does or doesn't accept. I'm just having a conversation and not trying force anyone to believe what I say or to bully anyone. 

I was referring to the events in Jerusalem in Acts 12 where "Easter" refers to Jews vs. the Jewish Christian's events. I did not mean to imply that it was a world wide Christian tradition to keep the week of unleavened bread. Only that the OT Passover was held in the days of unleavened bread and that the Christians hold the Lords supper in place of the ceder or with the supper and then the Easter celebration just after that week, the following Sunday. 

56 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Christians don't have a "passover week of unleavened bread". It is not accurate. It is not a true statement. It is a confusing statement. It in no way relates anything official in Christianity. Christians and nowhere commanded to keep Passover nor the feast of unleavened bread. They are not Christian memorials, they are Jewish memorials.

We Gentiles don't but the Early Christian JEWS of Jerusalem did in Acts 12. They kept the Passover week as part of their National traditions and celebrated Easter (Resurrection Morning) at the end of those events. Remember Christian Jews were still doing all their national events and traditions, including Paul who kept many feast in Jerusalem and even took a Nazareit vow the whole of his third missionary journey then went to the temple, under the instruction of James and the Church to the temple, with Four other Christian Jewish men to offer up his hair. We Gentile Christians on the other hand only observe the lord's supper in place of the OT Passover and then Easter the following Sunday Morning.

Because we are factoring in dates and times in this discussion, the days of unleavened bread do factor into our conversation as relating to the Passover/Lord's supper, Lamb Temple Sacrifice/Christ Sacrifice, then Easter as being Resurrection Morning. For the JEWS it is traditionally all Passover/Pesach week but for the Gentile Christian it is traditionally Easter Week. That is why the Translators translated the Greek "pascha" as Easter in Acts 12:4 because they were telling English speaking Christians that Herod was waiting until after Resurrection Morning and not just the Jewish Passover supper that had already past earlier that week.

Acts 18:18 And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.

Acts 18:21 but bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Acts 21:20-27 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,

Acts 24:17-18 Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings. 18 Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.

Easter E'ASTER, noun A festival of the christian church observed in commemoration of our Savior's resurrection. It answers to the pascha or passover of the Hebrews, and most nations still give it this name, pascha, pask, paque. ~ Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Online Edition

We also have to know what is Testament, which rules over all mankind and what is a personal or group covenant which rules over only a select group of people. While we can learn what God likes and wants by looking at an individual or group covenant, but we are not obligated to keep a covenant we are not in. The National covenant of Israel also standardized what they were to do in regard to Testament obligations so there is some overlap in laws so their covenant is a good good tool to see what was required of God for the Old Testament as well. Many Nations, though not under the National covenant of Israel, have been blessed by aliening with the laws and structures of Israel so though something bay not be an obligation for us to keep it can make for good practices for society and health as a whole.  Today we live in the New Testament because Christ took over Old Testament Melchizedek priesthood, and sacrifices for intersession for mankind, so we do not do any of the Levitical sacrifices, or holy days, or cleansings for physical righteousness (though they are sill good for basic hygiene!).

5 hours ago, Invicta said:

The resurection was in the evening as the Sabbath was approaching. 

Are you saying that Jesus' resurrection was on Friday before dark? The Jewish sabbath starts on our Friday night at dusk. 

2 hours ago, DaveW said:

And by the way, Christians do not have a "Passover week of unleavened bread".

We don't but that's what the Passover week is called in scripture.

Luke 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

2 Chronicles 35:17 And the children of Israel that were present kept the passover at that time, and the feast of unleavened bread seven days.

Ezekiel 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

Matthew 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

Mark 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

Mark 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

2 hours ago, DaveW said:

John, I am no friend to invicta, but you cannot accuse him of a misquote when he has not done so.

In the quote his words are in black and mine are in red. Scripture that I reposted is in green. I didn't accuse him of anything.

1 hour ago, Invicta said:

Easter is still not passover.  The resurection was in the evening as the Sabbath was approaching. Its the last event in the Christian's Passover week of unleavened bread. The Passover (Lord's Supper) is eaten near the beginning of the week, Christ is crucified as our Passover lamb, and then three days later on the first day of the next week we celebrate Easter Morning. 

• Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The women got to the tomb when it was dark. okay, so?

• John 20:1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

So your resurrection morning quote is not correct. It says "as it began to dawn"

Israel means "God's Prince" which meant that God gave him power and authority and protection, both in heaven and in Earth, to rule over God's nation of Covenanted people. When Jacob ruled in faith the Bible would call him Israel but when he was fearful or in doubt of God's promises and protection he would be called Jacob in the Bible. Many times His name would alternate from Jacob to Israel in joining chapters. The "Nation of Israel" is more properly called "the Children of Israel" and is in reference to all of those who exited Egypt with Moses (including the mixed multitude that did not come physically from Jacob) and partook of the Israelite Covenant at Mount Sinai. Often when God promises to do something for the the nation of Israel, even when they do not have faith in His promises, then He will refer to the nation as Jacob. The "Israel of God" is in reference to those in the covenant of Israel and are also believers in Christ. The "Israel of God" does not include all believers but only the believers who are also in the "covenant of Israel". Those who do not believe in Christ but were born in the covenant of Israel will be "cut off in Righteousness" when Christ returns to set up the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. I can give a verse study later that shows these things, when I have more time. 

15 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Easter is not passover, it is a papal invention to get the church to celebrate the pagan spring festival. 

Easter is not pagan. It simply means "to rise in the East" and is a early Christian reference to the resurrection morning, which they memorialized at the end of their Passover week. Her is a good link from Brother Will Kinney's website that ducuments the proper meaning of the work and why the pagan myth is in error: https://brandplucked.webs.com/easter.htm?fbclid=IwAR3vdsm5pUf08BLNz8IEoA-pwQDxnsyiZc7tG9M_1FFFFRQb3DAuKoPNxf0

To be clear, I believe Anderson and those in or friendly to the NIFB need to be called out on their errors in doctrine and practices but that it should not be mixed with unprovable rumors, assumptions about their motives, questioning their salvation, or personal ad hominem attacks to their person. Their error will not go away with sharp rebuke either as it is a doctrinal thing that is causing their errors and not mere disobedience to things they already know to do. The only thing that will work is clear and patient biblical teaching to their questions, regardless of how we are treated in response.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

26 minutes ago, DaveW said:

John you don't seem to understand the depths of this matter. I absolutely do. I also know that Anderson isn't the only one spreading errant doctrine among the churches.

He absolutely does teach his "soulwinners" a 123 repeat after me, get em to pray and mark it down as a win. First hand remember.

And you say that these attacks go on both ways??????? I do. There are many who are telling verifiable false rumors about Anderson who don't care that they are lies. While these serve to rile up the accuser's base they also alinate many who are on the fence about Anderson.

Not really - people like David Cloud present evidence and talk about bad methods and wrong doctrine, not defaming a person's character like Anderson does. I appreciate much of what David Cloud has to say but even with his booklet on Anderson there are clear problems but I won't get in to them here.

And there are the various false doctrines that he holds and expresses -such as a hatred of Israel - have you read and heard some of the thing s that he says about Israel? I have.

And what about the foul language -plenty of times he has used questionable language - terms that some would consider foul but others might not (we all need to be careful of such borderline matters), but he is on record using language that should not pass any Christian's lips let alone be used in preaching. Agreed.

If you think all of these clearly demonstrable matters are small issues, then you need to reassess a few things. I don't think they are small matters but they also need to be kept in the right perspective.

If even some of them are true - and I have good confidence in all of them - but even if only some of them are true this man is not qualified to be a pastor. Whither or not he is qualified is up to his local church, of course how his church is set up, I doubt they will be disqualifying him any time soon...

20 minutes ago, Alan said:

In my estimation, Anderson is a worse  wolf in sheep's clothing than any cult, modernist, or liberal church in the neighbourhood. In my estimation, Anderson, and his followers, are deliberately infiltrating IFB churches in an effort to destroy them.

I understand where you are coming from. In my estimation though I see it not as salvation problem but a Doctrinal one. Most of those pastors who are flocking to his group (I believe Anderson himself as well) are saved but had doctrinal questions that they were not getting answered or were given wrong answers by their dispensationalist/IFB teachers. Not getting those answers from main IFB teaching they ended up getting them from other places that had a fundamentally wrong but "simple to understand from the bible" view that skews how they see the scriptures in regards to Israel. Regardless, Whatever opinion one has about the motives of Anderson and company, the only way it will be resolved is to have clear and loving refutation of His errant doctrine. Anything else will just serve to justify what they now believe and are doing to other churches.

1 hour ago, DaveW said:

Have you been directly involved with Steven Anderson? I've followed his ministry over the years and have talked to him occasionally online. The few times we talked were cordial discussions even when we disagreed over points of doctrine or procedure. However, I've no personal relationship with him or ever been to his church.

We had a young man who went to the US for the specific reason of joining himself to the ministry "because no one else cares about serving the Lord like they do". (This young man left a great, God serving, soulwinning church by the way. He came back to Australia and came to our church for some months before moving to NSW.) They have definitely taped in to that persona at FWBC, as they have a solid plan in place for soulwinning. They have soul winning groups that go out every day door knocking locally, monthly trips to small towns and Indian reservations, and yearly missions trips to countries around the world. That is supplemented with the online promotion of these things as well as helping other local churches get people involved in soulwinning through their "Soulwinning Marathons" format.

He was with Steven Anderson for 18 months before he left. They ABSOLUTELY 100% do teach them to door to door soulwinning by the 123 method - this is first hand from one who was taught, trained, and participated in their soulwinning program. They can say they don't but this is first hand info brother. They also don't really follow up on them after telling them they should be in church on Sunday. I didn't say they don't use a 123 method as most if not all IFB soul winning programs do. What I meant is they are taught to look for understanding, agree meant with the points of the presentation and faith in Christ, and not just to get them to say a prayer. I can't speak to every person but that is what the leaders say to whom I've spoken to online and with whom I've gone soulwinning with.

By the way this fits perfectly with their claim to have seen many many thousands saved and yet they have a church which varies between as low as 60 and as high as a couple of hundred. In the 18 months this young man was there they were up and down in numbers like a toy. Partly because Anderson kicks out anyone who challenges him in any way. They are up to about 400 now at FWBC. As with any fast influx of people going into a ministry like his you will have people their who have major doctrine that is not compatible with the church (not just opinions) and so either they conform to church doctrine or leave. Every church I've been to had a standard of doctrine.

Again, this is first hand account, not hearsay.

And they openly state that homosexuals can't get saved. They may "accidentally witness to mor e homosexuals", but what does that matter, for they are taught that these people are beyond redemption. This is public information. I agree. I was just answering to the fact that they do witness to them at the door. Not that they believe they could be saved.

And Anderson and his followers falsely accuse good, hardworking Pastors. I know of a guy in Qjeensland! QUEENSLAND! Half a world away, who was subjected to Anderson attacks. I agree. That's not right and I don't support it. However these "attacks" are going both ways and are common among various opposing "camps" in the IFB world and much of it is over secondary issues, talking past each other, and saying the same things but in different ways, believing lies and amusing things without verification, etc. Sadly its not unique to Anderson.

My goodness, this guy is a false teacher, an Israel hater, an attacker of the brethren, and poor testimony of Christ, a user of crass and sometimes foul language, and one who is leading many on a path of at least bad testimony if not false salvation. I'm really not trying to defend what he teaches on or how he acts. Just that on salvation the "NIFB" is preaching a correct gospel and is at least trying to do it right. They are basically like Ruckmanites in that regard.

One day I might even express my real feelings on the matter.... Don't we all want to? hahaha

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

How do they have a right heart for soulwinning when they have the wrong doctrine on who can be saved? They don’t witness to homosexuals, they just flat out condemn them and tell them they are going to hell (which they and every other lost person is going to IF they don’t repent and trust the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of salvation). Also, they deny the need for repentance - when the Bible teaches repentance AND faith. Repentance is changing your mind about your sin (ie. now believing what God’s Word says about it) and turning your heart from those sins, which will result in a change of conduct if they truly turn to Christ to save them (ie. it’s not reform or turning over a new leaf, it’s hating the sin you once loved and trusting in the Saviour to forgive and cleanse you of those sins).

I think you've been mis-informed on what they teach about repentance. Also, as a rule, most do present the Gospel to everyone at the door who is willing to listen, as they believe everyone has the right to hear the gospel even if they won't believe it. They don't believe in making instant judgement call about a person they just met, unless of course that person is in their face about it. Which at that point that person probably isn't interested in hearing gospel anyway. And many of those in the NIFB do realize some are confused victims of that lifestyle indoctrination and not full fledged sodomites. In fact they often say they witness to more homosexuals door to door on accident then most do on purpose.

In regards to Repentance, they are opposed to the term "Repent of Sins for salvation" or any variant, as when it is used by Armenians and other protestants, including many reformed Baptist and some independents, does mean stop sinning for salvation (which as we know means to tun back to the law before Christ will save you and  to stay obedient to stay saved). They are opposed to any term that makes it seem as if the sinner stoping sin has any part in their salvation, as opposed to placing 100% trust in Christ alone to save and keep them saved. They do realize that the person needs to understand that they are a sinner and needs to turn to Christ in full faith for redemption of their sins (not just say a 123prayer as some claim).

44 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

I know you don't agree with the cult narrative...but I do.  

I may explain later why I think the "cult" narrative is flawed and not correct but rather we should focus on the core errors of their doctrine instead.

I don't agree with the "cult" narrative, as that's a too arbitrary and subjective term. While I believe them to be a legitimate branch/camp of IFBs who have a right heart for soul winning, I do agree they are severely mistaken on key bible doctrines because if their inability to discern the differences in similar term and the covenants and testaments. Part three of this series is better than part 2. 
 

I know a lot of people who look saved for one reason or another but aren't. Some grew up as Christians and knew the actions and even liked the culture and had it in the head as a nice way to live life and even perceived it as intellectually viable, or even believed in Christianity on some level but it was never in their heart. God was never their authority and when something better to them came along, they took it. Parable of the four soils as an example.

Atheism is just another religion, and like another, attempts to convert to their cause and sow seeds of doubt. If he merely became a secularist and naturalist then he would not care about Christians, as its all over when we die anyway. Much less come on a Baptist forum. He would just think to live and let live. His appeal to the fallacy of the "no true Scotsman" is plain silly considering he is an apologist for atheism. If he is to claim that fallacy then he would have to reasonably prove his conversion by providing at least his salvation and baptism testimonial, his local church contact information so we can verify his Christian service. Then, if he held up to the outward signs of being a true born again Christian and then we who examined him removed or modified the scriptural qualifications, only then could he claim the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. As it stands he could just be some white dude in a kilt claiming to be a Scotsman.

Do you know what the cause of it is yet?