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John Young

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Posts posted by John Young


  1. 17 minutes ago, SAB76 said:

    it is also extremely disheartening to learn that there is such Pharisieism....Phariseical push back that I have received...

    Wow. It is not Pharisaical to give God our best and to be Qualified. To say that it is Pharisaical to hold men to the NT qualifications of a church office is certainly not right. No one ever said they could not serve or be very valuable to God. Nor that "we are better than they" or that they have no forgiveness. Only that they should not hold on to an office to which they are not qualified.


  2. In regards to Brother Anderson, I am neither a supporter or a detractor. I consider him a Christian Brother who holds to errant doctrine. I do not recommend him, his church, or his errant Covenant doctrines to anyone and I think he and his followers should be corrected when they try to promote those doctrines. (My attitude toward recommending him and his camp is the same that I have for Ruckmanites or contemporary Baptist groups). However, I also am not interested in promoting lies about him (or any fellow Christian) and these lies should also be confronted as well.

    To be sure, many people on either side of this want me to go further than his doctrine and take a stronger stand on him as a person. They want me to either say he is an "unsaved false prophet" and partake in condemning him, beyond what I believe there is actual evidence for, so they can label me friend or foe as well but I'm not really interested in being an enemy to any Christian but instead to correct and help them and if I can, give them the benefit of the doubt.


  3. 3 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

    However less discerning believers who might be reading this may be caused to stumble because they may view you as defending Steven Anderson. I mean you did post Steven Anderson's video defense of himself and offered no qualifying statements.

    Mainly because both men's video's speak for themselves and the people who frequent "online baptist" are capable men who have already decided the matter for themselves one way or the other. Additionally I have made my feelings on the matter clear in previews post. So I don't feel the need to qualify my statements other than to say the accused has a right to be heard and give an account of himself. Whether people accept his defense or the accusations is up to them.


  4. It is precisely because I follow Christ that that I'm speaking out against misrepresentation and false narratives regarding Anderson. If you see this as my defending him, then that is what you chose to see. But if you look closer, and consider what I have been saying all along, then you will see that I have been trying to defend my brothers from getting caught up in believing and sharing lies to "defeat" a errant/false teacher. We should not and cannot overcome lies with lies but rather only with truth.


  5. My problem isn't so much with wanting to defend Brother Anderson and his errant doctrine so much as it is with, supposed Good people trying to discredit him with equally false lies and misrepresentation. If people must spend their time speaking out against him beyond the basic warning, they should at least try to do do it with with verifiable and factual information and address his errant covenant theology rather than, Straw men menial arguments, assumptions about his motives and character and the promotion of equally bad teachers (from their pulpit), simply because those people they speak against him, etc.


  6. Basic details of the Four Returns of Christ in Revelation (Part 4 of 4)

    The Return For His Kingdom (Chapters 15-22)

    When: At the marriage Supper

    Where: Earth, Babylon

    How soon: An hour and a day after Christ's return to Mt. Sion (An hour to judge and destroy the city of Babylon and then a day to finish the marriage supper Battle at Armageddon)

    Who is included: Anyone who is with Babylon and gathered to the battle against Christ will be judged and destroyed.

    Preparation: "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

    Timeline: Hereafter, After New Israel is gathered to Mt. Sion.

    Notable Persons Places and Things: Seven angels with seven vials, sea of glass mingled with fire, harps of God, the song of Moses, the song of the Lamb, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven (no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled), angel of the waters, Angel of the Alter, the kings of the east, unclean spirits like frogs, Armageddon, Babylon (the great whore), scarlet coloured beast, sins reaching unto heaven, the merchants of the earth, a stone like a great millstone, a voice coming out of the throne, the marriage of the Lamb, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, heaven opened, white horses, Faithful and True, the Word of God, the armies which were in heaven, a sharp sword, an angel standing in the sun, the supper of the great God, the beat and false prophet, a lake of fire, remnant were slain with the sword, angel with a key and chain, Satan bound a thousand years, thrones, the first resurrection, Gog and Magog, tormented day and night for ever, a great white throne, the book of life, death and hell, a new heaven and a new earth, new Jerusalem, the water of life, the second death, a golden reed to measure the city, the glory of God, the nations of them which are saved, the Lamb’s book of life, the tree of life, the Spirit and the bride, The grace of our Lord. Amen.


  7. 4 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

    Steven Anderson brought out a straw man....he does have a lot of false teaching. His Covenant Theology is in error

    In my opinion both men are and most "Evil Anderson" videos play too much with straw men and most are made by men who hold to worse errors than he. That's why he is able to correct them so easily. However, as you pointed out, most of his errors stem form his Covenant Theology, which the majority of these hit videos don't address very well, so he doesn't have to actually defined, or correct his core doctrines that caused him to error in the first place.


  8. Basic details of the Four Returns of Christ in Revelation (Part 3 of 4)

    The Return For His Nation, Israel (Chapters 8-14)

    When: At the Gathering of the First fruits of Israel to Jerusalem (at the harvest/Reaping of the Earth by the angels)

    Where: At Mount Sion (As the Lamb, and Son of Man)

    How soon: Forty-two months after the Sealing of the 144,000 and three days after the two witnesses of God are killed in Jerusalem.

    Who is included: The 144,000 and believers of Christ (those who endured through unto the end).   

    Preparation: Don't worship or take the mark of the Beast. Believe on Christ, expect to be be martyred or endure unto the harvest. Don't persecute the Saints or retribution will be given in like measure.

    Timeline: Hereafter, At the Harvest of the Earth, Forty-Two moths after the sealing of New Israel (The Woman with Sun Moon and twelve Stars, picturing the 144,000 who received Christ)

    Notable Persons Places and Things: Half hour in Heaven, Seven angels with seven trumpets, Angel with golden censer, Prayers of the saints, the golden altar, fire of the altar, Wormwood, The angel crying woe to the earth, the three woes, the star with the key, the bottomless pit, the locust of the pit, Five months of torture, Abaddon, the four horns of the golden altar, the Four angels in Euphrates, an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, the army of horsemen, another mighty angel with a little book, seven thunders, time no longer, the seventh angel, the mystery of God, the voice from heaven, the continuing prophesy Of John, the reed like unto a rod, the Gentiles, Forty-two moths, the holy city, the beast of the pit, the remnant, The last Trump (the seventh angel sounded), the temple of God opened in heaven, the ark of his testament, a great wonder in heaven, The woman with child (New Israel), the red dragon, a man child caught up to heaven, the wilderness, a place prepared of God, the war in heaven, Michael and his angels, a flood and the earth, the remnant of the woman's seed (the 144,000), the beast from the sea, the wounded head, the mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, names not written in the book of life, another beast coming up out of the earth, the image to the beast, the number of the beast (666), a Lamb standing on mount Sion, his Father’s name, the new song of the 144,000, the firstfruits, another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel, another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, the third angel with a warning against worshiping the beast, a voice from heaven comforting the dead in Christ, a white cloud with one Like the Son of man, another angel coming out of the (earthly) temple, the harvest of the earth,  another angel coming out of the (heavenly) temple, the great winepress, a thousand and six hundred furlongs.


  9. Basic details of the Four Returns of Christ in Revelation (Part 2 of 4)

    The Return For His House (Chapters 5-7)

    When: At the Abomination of Desolation (on the great day of his wrath)

    Where: In the Temple (By His Glory)

    How soon: When the Temple is dedicated (to the anti-Christ religion at the placement of the image of jealousy) 

    Who is included: All of Jerusalem will be judged of God's Glory and then retribution by the Anti-Christ will affect the whole world (Mark of the beast will be implemented after this act which will include wide spread Martyrdom of those to trust in Christ because of this event)   

    Preparation: Cry and sigh for the abominations done therein. Sanctify yourself. Read and Understand.

    Timeline: Hereafter , Mid Week

    Notable Persons Places and Things: Seven Sealed Book, Strong Angel, Christ (Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David/Lamb as it had been slain), The Four horsemen, The souls under the throne and their fellowservants/brethren, The Four Angels of the earth, Angel with the seal of God, The 144,000 Israelites, The great multitude that "came out of great tribulation", His temple.


  10. 3 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

    if perhaps instead of the word "returns", you may have meant "happenings" when He returns?

    It can also be thought of as "Four Stages of Christ's Return" but I wanted to  emphasize the fact that in His return to establish His millennial kingdom, the bible does not actually teach that there will only be one "touch down" for restitution of all things but rather in His return He organizes and sets in place and motion and then "comes for" each of these groups in separate events before finally finally coming to earth in Revelation 19 with the armies of heaven.

    In the First stage He comes in His Spirit for His Body (Revelation 1 and 4), In the second Stage He comes In God's Glory to cleans the Temple at the abomination of Desolation (Ezekiel 9, Revelation 7) , In the Third Stage He Comes as the Lamb and the Son of Man to save His Sealed Saints, and to make war with the Beast (Revelation 14), Then in the fourth stage he comes as the Word of God and In Power to judge and take over the world (Revelation 19).


  11. The Law and the National covenant of Israel was never about giving salvation but about teaching us Sanctification and creating an environment in which it would be harder for sin to take root. Within the Law and the national covenant, sin's evil and destructive influence would be greatly reduced and Holy and helpful influences would increase. Within  that environment the goal was preservation of righteousness on earth and the lifting up of and drawing of men to the light of Christ.

    Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


  12. The reason the Bishop cannot have two wives is because Christ does not have two wives. Nor does he have "one church at a time". He hated it when the Priest of the OT made excuses for their infidelity, so what makes us NT priest think we are any better or that he now thinks it is okay?!! 

    "Abandonment" is also not an excuse as the Hardness of the man's heart toward his wife is why most wives "abandon" their husbands and disqualifies regardless of fault. It is a disqualifier from the office but not from service. If a man can not accept that, then it reveals his hard heart and desire to hold on to power of some-sort. A humble Bishop who has been disqualified has sorrow that he no longer is a symbol and example of Chris's marital relationship and will step down in hopes a better qualified example can fill that role. In particular so that the spirit and power of the office and the Lord's church be not hindered as shown by the rebellious priest in Malachi 2.

    I personally believe one of the big reasons the modern church is struggling today, and lacks power is because Bishops and churches (even in the IFB types) refuse to disqualify pastors but instead make excuses for their sin and why they are minumily qualified and keep ordaining men of lower and lower caliber in stead of seeking men who are at the strictest example of the qualifications. 

    Ephesians 5:31-33 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

    1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

    Malachi 2 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the Lord of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. 3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it. 4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the Lord of hosts. 5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. 6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity. 7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

    10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? 11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the Lord which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god. 12 The Lord will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the Lord of hosts. 13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

    14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. 15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. 16 For the Lord, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the Lord of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

    17 Ye have wearied the Lord with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?


  13. 1 hour ago, Invicta said:

    Not sure I quite agree with you.  Peter wae an elder and I understand that elders are bishops.

    • 1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

    Never said that Peter wasn't a bishop of a church. Just that Paul wasn't. As far as we know Peter meets the qualifications (in the strictest sense of them) and in my opinion, I believe he was the pastor of the church in Babylon. Paul on the other and was a missionary Apostle and started many churches but was never ordained a Bishop/pastor/elder of any of them. When they organized he always set a bishop over them that met the strictest sense of the qualifications. Paul never did things that were "passable" but that were beyond reproach so that t the church could not be blamed in any way because of his leadership. 2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:


  14. 4 hours ago, SAB76 said:

    you err by making it an office of the "church", and that the pastor is subject to the church. It is an office that God gifted to the church, and the pastor is subject to Christ and him alone.

    Every church member is subject to the church, including the office of bishop (1 Corinthians 12).The church is Christ's body and for a member to act as if it is greater than the body that it is a part of, by virtue of the office that they hold within it, that would be the error.

    Romans 12:3-5 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

    4 hours ago, SAB76 said:

    If Paul was not a bishop, please explain the last part of 2 Cor. 11:28.

    2 Corinthians 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

    A bishop is over one church Apostles shepherded all of the churches and the guided the elders in doctrine. In particular Paul was commissioned oversight of the gentile churches.

    Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

    Acts 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. Acts 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

    Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 2 Timothy 1:11 whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

    Galatians 2:7-9 but contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (for he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.


  15. 20 minutes ago, SAB76 said:

    then Paul was not "qualified"

    Paul was never a bishop. He was an Apostle, which has different qualifications and requirements.

    Also being a Bishop of a church is not a position that God calls to a lifetime position. The office is subject to the church as it is a church office and not a post they can claim by virtue of their calling of God. Additionally a person can fulfill the callings of God without having to be the Bishop of a church.


  16. Basic details of the Four Returns of Christ in Revelation (Part 1 of 4)

    The Return For His Body (Chapters 1-4)

    When: On the Lord's Day

    Where: In the Spirit (In the Air)

    How soon: The time is at hand, when the voice like a Trumpet sounds

    Who is included: Anyone who Hears what the Spirit says

    Preparation: Angels need to guide their churches and keep them strong, Churches need to listen to the Spirit and fix their problems so they can be proper witnesses, The 7 churches have a special role to get the Book of Revelation out to the other churches.

    Timeline: The things which are (before the Lord's Day)

    Notable Persons Places and Things: Angel of Christ, Apostle John, The Spirit, 7 Angels (7 Stars), 7 Churches (7 Candlesticks), Christ (one like unto the Son of man), 24 Elders, 7 Spirits of God (7 lamps of fire), 4 beasts (cherub), The throne room of God.


  17. Ezekiel shows us that the 144,000 are sealed in Jerusalem at the abomination of desolation and that tribal affiliation will be based on what district of Israel they are living in. So not symbolic but literal people living in a literal Israel, in the actual land, sealed by a literal Angel (Ezekiel 9). Additionally Israel is a covenant relationship, not a racial, genetic, or cultural. The only saved Israelites will be part of the "Spiritual Israel". The false Jew will be cut off from the nation and those gentile believers who wish to enter the Israeli covenant must enter by the terms of that covenant, not by mere virtue of believing on Christ alone but must also be circumcised and keep the Passover every year, etc or be cut off from it. (Exodus 12:47-49, Numbers 19:13).


  18. Basic Revelation Outline:
    The Four Returns of Christ.
    1-4 For His Body (Rapture of the Church, 7 Candlesticks)
    5-7 For His House (Cleansing the Temple, 7 Seals)
    8-14 For His Nation (Saving Sealed Israel, 7 Trumpets)
    15-22 For His Kingdom (Judging The World, 7 Vials)

    Chronology of Revelation is progressive and accumulative in nature.


  19. 1 hour ago, DaveW said:

    I thought this would be an interesting subject, but I guess not.

    Its a good topic and one I would probably follow but not one that I would be dogmatic about or really contribute a lot to as being commanded or not commanded or necessary or not necessary. As the command to take the oversight and to "feed the flock" are exceedingly broad and general but direct and encompassing a lot of things that would not necessarily be covered in detail but would make something not mentioned directly necessary as needed for the well-being of that particular flock.

    Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    1 Peter 5:1-4 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


  20. 11 hours ago, Alan said:

    For those on this board who know me personally, they understand that I was a firm follower of Kent Hovind before he lied, deceived, started to speak against the United States, and changed his doctrinal beliefs concerning prophetic doctrine.

    Hovind can talk and spin his case to the point of people disregarding the evidence as frivolous: of his Federal conviction The evidence of his infidelity to both wives, the great struggle of his wife and sons trying to help him get right. I defended him as well in his federal convictions because I believed him but when I looked into the events surrounding his wife and Son Eric in trying to help him I realized he was being manipulative to his and other Christians own hurt. 
     

    1 hour ago, Shoostie said:

    You have no understanding of anything.

    Shoostie, you are only hurting yourself and showing your ignorance by believing the spin that Kent Hovind has spoon fed you. I still like Kent but he needs help.


  21. 4 minutes ago, Shoostie said:

    Next time you post, I expect you to claim something else is the Olive Tree in Romans 11.  So far in this thread, instead of the correct answer of Israel, we have the Promise itself, Jesus, David, and now the Tree of Life have all been offered as the Olive Tree in Romans 11.  

    Who are the natural branches of the Tree of Life? 

    As I stated before...In regard to the context of Romans 11....

    4 hours ago, John Young said:

    The Natural Branches are those that were born into the physical covenant nation of God to whom "were committed the oracles of God" they had the most opportunity to believe before being cut off by sin, unlike the Non covenanted nations who were "wild" by NATURE. 

    The Wild Branches in the context of Romans 11 are those who in spite of being born in other nations that had no covenant of service with God (Bands), going their own ways, and therefor no oil flowing to them, they heard the words of Life and were graphed in to the Tree Of Life (Beauty).

    In Paul's day only the Jews were teaching the precepts of God and were therefor the natural Branches that led to the tree of life. Today the natural branches are those born to Godly Families of all nations that attend Godly churches that "flow the oil" by teaching Christ. These are the churches that are lead by the seven angels to which flow the light of Christ. They were present in the synagogues of the Jews and they are present today in the churches of Christ.

    Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

    1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

    Zechariah 4:2-3 and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold [the churches synagogues], with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: 3 and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.....11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side  thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches [bands and beauty, Moses and Elijah, law and grace,] which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

    Revelation 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength....20 the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches....Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent....Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

    Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

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