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Alan

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  1. Like
    Alan got a reaction from Jim_Alaska in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Yes, besides being simple enough for the average person to understand it, simple enough for the common child, man or woman, simple enough that the "archaic"words can be found in almost any modern dictionary, far more accurate and true to the biblical texts than any other translation, the King James Version is, "beloved."
  2. Like
    Alan got a reaction from WellWithMySoul in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    WellWithMySoul,
    Thank you for your observation and thoughts. 
    You are correct. The KJV is just fine, accurate, simple, loyal to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, and adequate to use in translating into foreign languages. 
    Alan 
  3. Thanks
    Alan got a reaction from busdrvrlinda54 in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    WellWithMySoul,
    Thank you for your observation and thoughts. 
    You are correct. The KJV is just fine, accurate, simple, loyal to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, and adequate to use in translating into foreign languages. 
    Alan 
  4. Like
    Alan reacted to WellWithMySoul in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    I was responding to the OP, but it still stands for me that though I am not a linguist, I would still use a KJV (not "updated") to translate to the foreign language.
  5. Like
    Alan reacted to Jim_Alaska in Ballot Fraud and Detection   
    Salyan, thank you for the strong dose of reality.
    Acts 5:29 (KJV) Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
  6. Like
    Alan reacted to Salyan in Ballot Fraud and Detection   
    BB, don't set up straw men. Socialism isn't human beings helping their neighbors, it's the government taking your money to feed those who won't work for themselves (mostly the head honchos) in the vain attempt to end poverty.
     
    For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 2 Thess. 3:10
    But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. 1 Thess. 5:8
    For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good... Mark 14:7 (Individual choice, not the government.)

    Socialist-style REQUIRED alms ends you up where my country is now - it is REQUIRED that we 'protect' others by masking, and not visiting, and not traveling, and just to make sure "for your protection"  the government will fine you $1000 if they catch you meeting up with your elderly parents for Christmas (those are thankfully being thrown out in court), and detain you at your own cost ($1500 USD) for 3 nights in a hotel to get testing once you return from traveling, and if you test positive, you are removed for quarantine in a government facility.  But it's all to protect you and others. Oh, and no level of enforcement - health services, AB, CAD, border patrol, RCMP - will take responsibility for what's going on, even while they assist. Apparently no one's in charge.  (Where's that little angry guy emoticon when you need him?)
    Sorry for jumping there but I am so DONE with anyone supporting socialism/communism nowadays - 100% of history shows where it ends up - Russia, Cuba, China, Venezuela - and maybe Canada down the drain too. And freedom of religion is the first to go - so don't try to tell me it's more Christian to support a system that suppresses Christianity. In our country, Manitoba has forbidden church services and is actively fining those that go anyways - Ontario is developing underground churches - Alberta 'allows' it at 15% capacity, with masking and no singing, so there are some churches openly defying it and others surreptitiously ignoring the limits - BC has banned in-person services. Hospitality (a direct command of Scripture) is banned, as you are not permitted to have other people in your own home. 
    It's real easy to support socialism when you are sitting comfortably in your own home, ignoring the lessons of history. It's a lot harder to ignore those lessons when you are counting cars in the church parking lot, installing blinds on the windows so motorists can't see how many people are in the church foyer, parking at a neighboring property and running over before the next car comes along to see you, live-streaming only the sermon so unfriendlies can't try to guess how many people are present by the volume of singing (yes, that happened to us), and having to convince your 71-year old mother that it's okay for us to drive to my brothers' place for Christmas - we can do it without the police pulling us over and giving us $1000 fines each for the audacity of Christmas with our small family in a small town.
  7. Like
    Alan reacted to Pastor Scott Markle in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Since an answer does not seem forthcoming, allow me to provide the grammatical facts concerning the meaning and significance of the "archaic" pronouns "thee," "thou," and "ye."
     
    Concerning PERSONAL PRONOUNS in English
    1st person personal pronouns are those referring to one's self.
    2nd person personal pronouns are those referring to another or others spoken to directly.
    3rd person personal pronouns are those referring to another or others spoken about indirectly.
    Personal pronouns contain both singular and plural forms for the sake of accuracy, EXCEPT in the case of the 2nd person personal pronouns for present-day English:
                                                               Singular                                                                       Plural
    1st person --               I (nominative case), me (objective case)               we (nominative case), us (objective case)
    2nd person --            you (nominative case), you (objective case)         you (nominative case), you (objective case)
    3rd person --              he, she (nominative), him, her (objective)        they (nominative case), them (objective case)
    (Note: For present-day English usage, the pronoun "you" serves both for the singular and plural, as well as both for the nominative and objective cases in both the singular and plural.  As such, some element of confusion is possible; and since both the Hebrew and Greek possess distinct forms for the singular and plural 2nd person personal pronouns, some aspect of accuracy would be lost.)
    However, personal pronouns contain both singular and plural forms for the sake of accuracy WITHOUT exception if we use the more "archaic" English forms:
                                                                 Singular                                                                       Plural
    1st person --               I (nominative case), me (objective case)               we (nominative case), us (objective case)
    2nd person --            thou (nominative case), thee (objective case)         ye (nominative case), you (objective case)
    3rd person --              he, she (nominative), him, her (objective)        they (nominative case), them (objective case)
    (Note: When using the more "archaic" English personal pronoun forms, the pronouns "thou," "thee," "ye," and "you" each serve in a distinct manner to accurately distinguish the singular and plural, as well as to distinguish the nominative and objective cases in both the singular and plural.  As such, these more "archaic" English personal pronouns in the King James translation retain the precise accuracy of the Hebrew and Greek from which they are translated.) 
  8. Like
    Alan reacted to Pastor Scott Markle in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    And there it is -- Avoid the question of ACCURACY in order to push your agenda of updating.  You have again revealed your priorities.  
    By the way, concerning the matter of accuracy and the "archaic" pronouns, with God indeed all things are possible; and God has already provided an answer -- Bible teachers who teach others the importance and meaning of those pronouns for the sake of accuracy.  (Note: I myself did not know the grammatical significance of ANY pronouns, except that someone first taught me English grammar, so the need to be taught  is NOT an argument against this provision.)  This is the manner by which God made it possible for me to learn their importance and meaning.  This is the manner by which God has made it possible for me to teach others concerning their importance and meaning.
    You, on the other hand, do not seem to care, but only seem to want to avoid the subject of their accuracy.  (Note: At this point I remain very uncertain that you even know the grammatical significance/meaning of those pronouns.)
  9. Like
    Alan reacted to Pastor Scott Markle in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Yes, it IS "archaic" English, specifically for the sake of ACCURACY.  So, you have now revealed what many have suspected.  Removing that which you perceive as "archaic" is more important to you than retaining that which is important for ACCURACY.  I must contend that such an attitude/philosophy of "updating" is an error.  I will have nothing whatsoever at all to do with such an attitude/philosophy of "updating."
  10. Like
    Alan reacted to Pastor Scott Markle in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Brother "BibleBeliever,"
    Do you understand the grammatical significance of the pronouns "thee," "thou," and "ye"?  If so, what do you understand that grammatical significance to be?
    In your opening question for this thread discussion, you ask about "a simple, ACCURATE KJV update."  Understanding the grammatical significance for the pronouns "thee," "thou," and "ye," I would contend that they are included in the King James translation for precise accuracy.  Furthermore, I would contend that arguing for them to be removed is demonstrating an interest in "simplicity" AT THE EXPENSE of accuracy.  No King James translation supporter that I know would EVER support that, nor would they EVER use such a product.
  11. LOL
    Alan reacted to Salyan in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Quite right. They speak the Queen's English.

  12. Like
    Alan got a reaction from Jim_Alaska in After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'   
    Hugh_Flower,
    It would be my pleasure to answer any of your questions.
    With all of the different divergent interpretations of prophecy in the religious realm I can understand why it is a struggle sometimes to understand which interpretation is the true one. After I got saved (at 19 years old in the military), the only material I read was in the different chapels (I went to approximately 9 different bases in the Air Force), and the material that I had available on doctrine, versions of the Bible, Charismatic material, and prophecy, was confusing. At the time most of the material was Reformed, Catholic, and Charismatic. So, at the beginning, concerning prophecy, my thoughts on Matthew 24, and other portions of scripture, were from the a-millennial point of view.
    So, we  will try and go through one question at a time.
    God bless.
    Alan
     
  13. Like
    Alan reacted to Hugh_Flower in After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'   
    Brother Alan thank you so much for this study. This has always been something I struggled to know, I am slowly reading through this ( give me a couple days ) and I hope to have some questions at the end. 
     
    Thank you
     
  14. Like
    Alan reacted to DaveW in My daughter to PNG   
    Kunai health clinic is in the northern Highlands, although about 5 years ago she went to the southern highlands for a couple of weeks, so she has an idea of what she is getting into.
    The Clinic is under the administration of some US missionaries, and it is a ministry of Kotidanga Baptist Church, which is the local IB church, pastored by a PNG national.
    She has now landed in Port Moresby, and is currently en route to the hotel where she will have to quarantine for two weeks. After that, she will spend a little time with the missionaries, John and Lena, before heading up to her new home for the next 12 months at least.
     
  15. Like
    Alan reacted to SureWord in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    People can read the King's English. That's what counts. 
    Yes, the gospel. As I said previously the gospel is all that God has to say to the lost.
    I've read this is quite common these days to translate from the KJV itself..
    In China there also is a movement among Christians who only preach and teach from the KJV believing it is the pure words of God.
     
  16. Praying
    Alan reacted to DaveW in My daughter to PNG   
    My daughter, Hannah-Rose is a registered nurse. She has left Perth this afternoon to fly to Brisbane and then on to Port Morseby, Papua New Guinea. She will be serving at Kunai health clinic. 
    The clinic is an independent baptist missionary run clinic with the purpose of reaching the people of the Kotidanga region and beyond for the Lord.
    I would appreciate prayer for her travel and for her service for the Lord into the future.
    Regards,
    DaveW
  17. Thanks
    Alan got a reaction from Jim_Alaska in After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'   
    Brethren,
    I want to thank all of you for participating in the study on, "After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his  elect.' I appreciate your kind comments and take note of any other comment.
    Here is the link to the PDF, "After the Tribulation - They Shall Gather the Elect," PDF, free:https://preceptpublications.org/After the Tribulation 02.01.21.pdf
    The PDF file contains a lot more information than I put on this study here on Online Baptist. If you have a question, or a comment, on the material within the PDF study than please bring it to our attention. I would like to add that once we return to the United States on our next furlough, if God allows, we plan on putting the Matthew 24:29-31 study in book form. So, if you see any problem, or error, or I did not properly present a passage of scripture correctly, or if I need to clarify something that I said, in the book I will correct my error.
    I do request that you keep your question, or comment, presented one at a time, that they are sincere, and that the question or comment does not bring a harsh discussion or ill feeling. If I feel that the question or comment is not beneficial to this study, in any manner or fashion, I would like to retain the option of moderating the study and asking the individual to cease their questions or comments.
    It is my thought that the material provided in the free PDF file would be a blessing to all and a help in their understanding of the prophetic events surrounding the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31.
    May God richly bless all of you as you study the scriptures.
    Alan
      
  18. Like
    Alan reacted to Pastor Scott Markle in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Brother "SureWord,"
    That is a valuable point to consider why the original translators chose the word "besom" in that context, rather than the word "broom."  Whatever their reasoning may have been (if we are able to discern it) is worthy of consideration whether the word "besom" is more significant for the context than the word "broom."
  19. Like
    Alan reacted to John Young in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    I appreciate your comments and I think they show the right spirit in which most faithful King James Bible users approach the scriptures. 
  20. Like
    Alan got a reaction from John Young in After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'   
    Brethren,
    I want to thank all of you for participating in the study on, "After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his  elect.' I appreciate your kind comments and take note of any other comment.
    Here is the link to the PDF, "After the Tribulation - They Shall Gather the Elect," PDF, free:https://preceptpublications.org/After the Tribulation 02.01.21.pdf
    The PDF file contains a lot more information than I put on this study here on Online Baptist. If you have a question, or a comment, on the material within the PDF study than please bring it to our attention. I would like to add that once we return to the United States on our next furlough, if God allows, we plan on putting the Matthew 24:29-31 study in book form. So, if you see any problem, or error, or I did not properly present a passage of scripture correctly, or if I need to clarify something that I said, in the book I will correct my error.
    I do request that you keep your question, or comment, presented one at a time, that they are sincere, and that the question or comment does not bring a harsh discussion or ill feeling. If I feel that the question or comment is not beneficial to this study, in any manner or fashion, I would like to retain the option of moderating the study and asking the individual to cease their questions or comments.
    It is my thought that the material provided in the free PDF file would be a blessing to all and a help in their understanding of the prophetic events surrounding the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31.
    May God richly bless all of you as you study the scriptures.
    Alan
      
  21. Like
    Alan reacted to SureWord in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    I'm a high school drop out though I have gotten my GED. I never read much more than the Sunday comics before I was saved at 18. I've never had a problem with the so-called "archaic" language of the KJV. In fact, I always enjoy looking up words I've never heard before. 
    My friend who is the pastor of Amazing Grace Baptist Church in Oriskany Falls, NY grew up a farmer and dropped out of school in 7th grade and said he never read anything until he read the KJV. He credits the reading of the KJV for increasing his comprehension and cognitive abilities. He had graduated from his bible college as one of the top students among his peers.
    From my experience anyone who complains about the "archaic" KJV wouldn't read an updated edition even if they had one just like many still won't read one of the 300+ modern English translations (yes, I have a list of approx that many since 1900) put out in "for ease of reading in a modern, updated English". It's just an excuse for laziness. Along with that I really don't know of any KJV bible believers clamoring for an updated edition. It something nobody is really asking for.
    Anyone at church not understanding an "archaic" word during a sermon has four avenues.
    1) Wait for the pastor to define it which most likely would happen.
    2) Look it up on their smart phone or tablet which many bring to church with them (please make sure your ringer is off)
    3) Take a guess since the context and feel of the word usually will give you an idea of it's meaning.
    4) Jot it down and look it up when you get home a enjoy learning a new word.
    "Besom of destruction" (Isaiah 14:23)
    My take on this "archaic" word. According to etymonline .com the word broom was in use 300 years before the KJV translators chose the word "besom". As I see it the word "besom" (a type of broom) fits the passage better since a "besom" is traditional associated with the occult and witchcraft (even to this day among Wiccans) and the context of the passage has to do with Satan himself as well as probably the future beast of Revelation. God will destroy these people with their own satanic devices.
    Just my thoughts.
  22. Thanks
    Alan got a reaction from Jim_Alaska in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    Every word that John Young stated is correct.
    The main issue of this thread is "only their subjective opinion" of those who want to find fault with the Authorized Version; in this case the 1769 edition, in order to justify the translating of a new version.
    Therefore, as I stated in my first post, the reason why I would not not vote in this poll is that I feel this poll is an incorrect poll.
    The Authorized Version, in this case the 1769 edition, is already simple for the average user, can be understandable using a common dictionary if the person has a problem with a word, the context of the word usually gives its meaning, and is accurate and faithful to the most trustworthy manuscripts.
    There is absolutely no justifiable reason to have another translation of the Authorized Version, commonly called the KJV of 1611, of the Bible.
     
  23. Thanks
    Alan reacted to John Young in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    And that's the issue with updating based on archaism. Words and grammar fall in and out of common use. The fact that the King James has been the common bible for over 400 years and has been attributed  to being one of the major influence in stabilizing English, means that even if a section of the population feels that portions are out of date, that is only their subjective opinion.
    Because of its common status and continued influance and role in English psych, everything contained in it, other than spelling changed from 1611, is not archaic. Rather, as part of popular english christian litature (and the most sold and read bible version) is very much in common use (more than Shakespeare, and on par with news papers and magazines) even if one section of the population is not familiar with it's various aspects and unique traits.
  24. Like
    Alan reacted to Pastor Scott Markle in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    It appears that you have some substantial evidence for your claim that the preposition "unto" is "archaic."  I was simply responding based upon my personal experience.  Having received a more "classical" high school education in the 1980s, I was taught to understand "unto" as a preposition along with a whole list of other prepositions.  In my personal experience of reading, I have found "unto" to be a natural preposition without any confusion whatsoever.
  25. Like
    Alan got a reaction from John Young in Thoughts about an update to the KJV?   
    The American Heritage Dictionary, fifth Edition, Copyright 2012, is a dictionary that is in common use in in our age. The definition for 'unto' is: prep. To [ME]."
    The American Heritage Dictionary does not, repeat, does not, list the word "unto" as archaic.
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