weary warrior

I think there are things that most church members just dont really know or understand about pastoring and preaching. And we ourselves often cant clarify it for them.
For instance, I am completely exhausted after preaching. Body, soul and spirit, I am completely pored out. I am not a screamer or a "windsucker" kind of preacher, but I am passionate, focused and "all in" when I preach. I usually feel like I just finished digging ditches for 8 hours, except digging ditches doesnt drain me spiritualy and emotionally. Add to that 1 1/2 hours of picking up kids before church from the surrounding farm communities, rushing in at the last minute to lead the singing, preaching, then fellowshiping and looking out for visitors during the meal after the service, and then the 1 1/2 hours taking kids home, I'm whipped. 
I know sometimes I probably seem a bit unsociable or remote after about 3:00pm on Sunday. But I can only hope people understand. Im never unkind or discourteous, just...wore out. I dont think thats something we can define for those who havent experienced it.

I think there are things that most church members just dont really know or understand about pastoring and preaching. And we ourselves often cant clarify it for them.
For instance, I am completely exhausted after preaching. Body, soul and spirit, I am completely pored out. I am not a screamer or a "windsucker" kind of preacher, but I am passionate, focused and "all in" when I preach. I usually feel like I just finished digging ditches for 8 hours, except digging ditches doesnt drain me spiritualy and emotionally. Add to that 1 1/2 hours of picking up kids before church from the surrounding farm communities, rushing in at the last minute to lead the singing, preaching, then fellowshiping and looking out for visitors during the meal after the service, and then the 1 1/2 hours taking kids home, I'm whipped. 
I know sometimes I probably seem a bit unsociable or remote after about 3:00pm on Sunday. But I can only hope people understand. Im never unkind or discourteous, just...wore out. I dont think thats something we can define for those who havent experienced it.

The name or title "reverend" only appears 1 time in all of scripture.
Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend ishis name.
The only time it is used is as a name for God. He is the "revered one" if you will. So I can't help but wonder how we, the humble servants of God, can have the temerity to refer to ourselves, or let others refer to us, as "Reverend". We are not ever to be "revered ones", but humble servants who lead the church in grace and humility and truth by our example.

I see what you are saying, and in that case, I am entirely in the wrong. I do apologize completely for my post. I am sorry.

I see what you are saying, and in that case, I am entirely in the wrong. I do apologize completely for my post. I am sorry.

Dave, if Cloud is talking breaking fellowship with brethren over the issue of pre-trib / post-trib rapture, it is inappropriate. That's Mike's bottom line point, and its a fair point.
The indignation being displayed here is disproportionate to the thought communicated. 

And again, you are misrepresenting what I said. I merely said that David Cloud holds the Pre-trib rapture to be a fundamental of the faith, and that, according to MY understanding as a Fundamentalist, (AT LEAST IN THE EYES OF SOME FUNDAMENTALISTS), a fundamental is a matter of salvation. I further clarified that David Cloud has said that it is a subject worthy of separation, BUT NEVER SAID HE BELIEVES IT TO BE A MATTER OF SALVATION. If I seemed to imply that, I apologize, I didn't mean to.
WHETHER or not he holds to Fundamentals as salvations issues, I don't know-I suspect NOT because he, like myself, holds to many more things as fundamentals than the basic five that many believe to be the fundamentals of the faith, being:
"1. The Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:1; John 20:28; Hebrews 1:8-9).  2. The Virgin Birth (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23; Luke 1:27). 3. The Blood Atonement (Acts 20:28; Romans 3:25, 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; Hebrews 9:12-14). 4. The Bodily Resurrection (Luke 24:36-46; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 15:14-15). 5. The inerrancy of the scriptures themselves (Psalms 12:6-7; Romans 15:4; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20)."
In no way have I misrepresented David Cloud-I do not know if he holds that all fundamentals are salvation issues, but I DO know that he believes the pre-trib rapture IS a fundamental and it is worthy of separation. If you disagree with that, you can read it yourself:  https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/another_church_enters_post-tributional_wilderness.php     Here is a small quote from the article:     "I am sad to report that Pastor Charlie Haddad and Joshua Koura of Grace Bible Baptist Church of New Castle, NSW, have abandoned the fundamental doctrine of the Pre-tribulational Rapture and are wandering in the aforementioned wilderness. Though they admit that they haven’t come to a settled position (and therefore should be keeping their mouths shut as learners instead of teachers), they have become sowers of doubt and confusion.

I have a personal stake in this, because last October I preached a Bible conference at Grace and assisted in the ordination of Joshua. Now I must withdraw my participation in that ordination and my support of that church. "
My main point I sought to make, is that the Bible does not clearly teach any specific timing for the rapture, though it DOES clearly teach a literal pre-millennial return of Jesus Christ-but please, show me clearly where we see Him returning before the tribulation period. I was raised pre-trib, grew up pre-trib, and after a considerable study, I changed my position because I found it wanting.  But that's just the problem, ALL the timing positions are wanting, all are full of assumptions, and every one of them lacks anything specific, EXCEPT, as clearly seen in Rev 14:14-17. This is the only passage that clearly shows Jesus in the clouds reaping the earth, the ripe harvest, just prior to the outpouring of the vials of wrath. THAT is the beginning of wrath, not Rev 6, THAT is tribulation-there is a clear separation between them, as seen in the trumpets and the vials. Trumpets are judgments, vials are wrath. Those with the Spirit of God are protected from the judgments through being marked by the Holy Spirit, which means we could potentially be living then, but protected from God's judgment. 
And again, I do not declare this as an absolute doctrime, because again, I am making assumptions, as well, but the bottom line is, while I greatly respect Dr. Cloud in , as I said, 99.5% of his teachings, I disagree here. I am not angry at him, and I don't take his stance personally, I merely state what we has made clear in association with the OP. I do not hold that anyone who disagree with me is my enemy, and I don't even see it as a reason to separate, UNLESS, as some I know on all sides of the aisle, it becomes such a  matter of contention, that the contention, itself, becomes reason for separation. 
By the way, for what it matters, I use quite a bit of Dr. Cloud's material-currently I have a class going using his 1 year discipleship course, and am awaiting his Digital Baptist Library. I have greatly appreciated and benefitted from his work and material, I just happen to disagree with him in this. 
 
Edited to include: From this article, https://www.wayoflife.org/database/is_fundamentalism_merely_five_fundamentals.html  David Cloud makes it clear that he does NOT hold to the idea of the fundamentals only being "the Five" and all salvation issues.  So I do, indeed, recognize that fact, and again, if I seemed to imply otherwise, I did not and I apologize. 
 

While I myself am firmly pre-trib, I know personally some IFB preachers who have recently moved to the post-trib side. It's odd, because I also know that these fellows are in agreement with me on the difference between the church and Israel, and they do not hold the reformed theology of the church taking Israel's covenant. As has been correctly pointed out on here, bad covenant theology is often the culprit. But not with these guys.
Honestly? I think for some it partly stems from guilt and grief over the carnality of the church today, and a belief that for us to get caught out early is to get off easy. I can see where they're coming from, but I cant hold the doctrine in light of everything in scripture.

I think there are things that most church members just dont really know or understand about pastoring and preaching. And we ourselves often cant clarify it for them.
For instance, I am completely exhausted after preaching. Body, soul and spirit, I am completely pored out. I am not a screamer or a "windsucker" kind of preacher, but I am passionate, focused and "all in" when I preach. I usually feel like I just finished digging ditches for 8 hours, except digging ditches doesnt drain me spiritualy and emotionally. Add to that 1 1/2 hours of picking up kids before church from the surrounding farm communities, rushing in at the last minute to lead the singing, preaching, then fellowshiping and looking out for visitors during the meal after the service, and then the 1 1/2 hours taking kids home, I'm whipped. 
I know sometimes I probably seem a bit unsociable or remote after about 3:00pm on Sunday. But I can only hope people understand. Im never unkind or discourteous, just...wore out. I dont think thats something we can define for those who havent experienced it.

I think there are things that most church members just dont really know or understand about pastoring and preaching. And we ourselves often cant clarify it for them.
For instance, I am completely exhausted after preaching. Body, soul and spirit, I am completely pored out. I am not a screamer or a "windsucker" kind of preacher, but I am passionate, focused and "all in" when I preach. I usually feel like I just finished digging ditches for 8 hours, except digging ditches doesnt drain me spiritualy and emotionally. Add to that 1 1/2 hours of picking up kids before church from the surrounding farm communities, rushing in at the last minute to lead the singing, preaching, then fellowshiping and looking out for visitors during the meal after the service, and then the 1 1/2 hours taking kids home, I'm whipped. 
I know sometimes I probably seem a bit unsociable or remote after about 3:00pm on Sunday. But I can only hope people understand. Im never unkind or discourteous, just...wore out. I dont think thats something we can define for those who havent experienced it.

I think there are things that most church members just dont really know or understand about pastoring and preaching. And we ourselves often cant clarify it for them.
For instance, I am completely exhausted after preaching. Body, soul and spirit, I am completely pored out. I am not a screamer or a "windsucker" kind of preacher, but I am passionate, focused and "all in" when I preach. I usually feel like I just finished digging ditches for 8 hours, except digging ditches doesnt drain me spiritualy and emotionally. Add to that 1 1/2 hours of picking up kids before church from the surrounding farm communities, rushing in at the last minute to lead the singing, preaching, then fellowshiping and looking out for visitors during the meal after the service, and then the 1 1/2 hours taking kids home, I'm whipped. 
I know sometimes I probably seem a bit unsociable or remote after about 3:00pm on Sunday. But I can only hope people understand. Im never unkind or discourteous, just...wore out. I dont think thats something we can define for those who havent experienced it.

I appreciate all of the sugestions. I am still leading the singing, as there is no one else. We're still singing sans music in whatever key I can handle, but its doing better. Our numbers are increasing, which helps. But more importantly, singing without a piano to cover up the vocals has actualy helped, as I keep encouraging them to sing stronger and livelier. They can hear the weaknesses, and are working to improve it themselves. I am pretty pleased with how things are progressing.

I think there are things that most church members just dont really know or understand about pastoring and preaching. And we ourselves often cant clarify it for them.
For instance, I am completely exhausted after preaching. Body, soul and spirit, I am completely pored out. I am not a screamer or a "windsucker" kind of preacher, but I am passionate, focused and "all in" when I preach. I usually feel like I just finished digging ditches for 8 hours, except digging ditches doesnt drain me spiritualy and emotionally. Add to that 1 1/2 hours of picking up kids before church from the surrounding farm communities, rushing in at the last minute to lead the singing, preaching, then fellowshiping and looking out for visitors during the meal after the service, and then the 1 1/2 hours taking kids home, I'm whipped. 
I know sometimes I probably seem a bit unsociable or remote after about 3:00pm on Sunday. But I can only hope people understand. Im never unkind or discourteous, just...wore out. I dont think thats something we can define for those who havent experienced it.

I think there are things that most church members just dont really know or understand about pastoring and preaching. And we ourselves often cant clarify it for them.
For instance, I am completely exhausted after preaching. Body, soul and spirit, I am completely pored out. I am not a screamer or a "windsucker" kind of preacher, but I am passionate, focused and "all in" when I preach. I usually feel like I just finished digging ditches for 8 hours, except digging ditches doesnt drain me spiritualy and emotionally. Add to that 1 1/2 hours of picking up kids before church from the surrounding farm communities, rushing in at the last minute to lead the singing, preaching, then fellowshiping and looking out for visitors during the meal after the service, and then the 1 1/2 hours taking kids home, I'm whipped. 
I know sometimes I probably seem a bit unsociable or remote after about 3:00pm on Sunday. But I can only hope people understand. Im never unkind or discourteous, just...wore out. I dont think thats something we can define for those who havent experienced it.

I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement. We had 28 present again yesterday. I chose "O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing" because of its very short verses and modest range. And with 6 verses, there was opportunity for them to kind of learn it by the time we were done. It went much better...no one's ears were bleeding by the time we finished. ?
It all actually is a blessing in a way. We sing the one song, I rattle through 1/2 dozen announcements and then go straight into the preaching.
As you might imagine from reading my posts on here over the years, my preaching is not what one might call  fluffy and light. It's not harsh or mean, and I'm definitely not a screaming wind-sucker, but it is very direct and to the point, so a 30 minute message is usually enough. We then dismiss and go downstairs for a church family Sunday dinner every week. So the timing is working out well.
The weekly meal after church? It's our version of "breaking bread" together, and Im finding that the benefits of this to the people individually, and to the cohesion of the church as a whole, are so much more than I ever imagined. Have you ever noticed how many important things in scripture Christ did with the disciples were done over a meal?

You are not alone. We have not had a Christmas tree in our house in over 20 years. As the new pastor of this church, I arrived here the first week of December, and they were getting ready to decorate the building. They had 3 new artificial christmas trees the church had purchased last season and were getting ready to put up. I was not hateful or ugly about it, but I would not allow them to put up the trees. I gave them the scripture in Jeremiah that you refer to and a bit of a history lesson. They accepted it readily, having never been even introduced to the concept or idea the the tree was pagan in origin and unscriptural. They had never seen those verses.
For many, though not all, therein lies the answer. They've simply never been taught. For the rest...they do not see that it applies. And maybe it actually doesnt apply. I don't know. I leave that between them and God, and I don't get bent about it. I simply don't have one, nor allow one in a place I am responsible for. And it's enough.

I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement. We had 28 present again yesterday. I chose "O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing" because of its very short verses and modest range. And with 6 verses, there was opportunity for them to kind of learn it by the time we were done. It went much better...no one's ears were bleeding by the time we finished. ?
It all actually is a blessing in a way. We sing the one song, I rattle through 1/2 dozen announcements and then go straight into the preaching.
As you might imagine from reading my posts on here over the years, my preaching is not what one might call  fluffy and light. It's not harsh or mean, and I'm definitely not a screaming wind-sucker, but it is very direct and to the point, so a 30 minute message is usually enough. We then dismiss and go downstairs for a church family Sunday dinner every week. So the timing is working out well.
The weekly meal after church? It's our version of "breaking bread" together, and Im finding that the benefits of this to the people individually, and to the cohesion of the church as a whole, are so much more than I ever imagined. Have you ever noticed how many important things in scripture Christ did with the disciples were done over a meal?

I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement. We had 28 present again yesterday. I chose "O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing" because of its very short verses and modest range. And with 6 verses, there was opportunity for them to kind of learn it by the time we were done. It went much better...no one's ears were bleeding by the time we finished. ?
It all actually is a blessing in a way. We sing the one song, I rattle through 1/2 dozen announcements and then go straight into the preaching.
As you might imagine from reading my posts on here over the years, my preaching is not what one might call  fluffy and light. It's not harsh or mean, and I'm definitely not a screaming wind-sucker, but it is very direct and to the point, so a 30 minute message is usually enough. We then dismiss and go downstairs for a church family Sunday dinner every week. So the timing is working out well.
The weekly meal after church? It's our version of "breaking bread" together, and Im finding that the benefits of this to the people individually, and to the cohesion of the church as a whole, are so much more than I ever imagined. Have you ever noticed how many important things in scripture Christ did with the disciples were done over a meal?

Yep. I welcome all through the doors, and all are welcome to sit and hear the truth. "They that are whole need not a physician, but they that are sick". However, it's takes a clear testimony of salvation, Biblical baptism and 3 months of faithful attendance to apply for a voting church membership. And public service in the church (music, teacher, deacon, secretary/treasurer etc.) are much more restricted. I consider church ministers of any kind to be much like a wife or a mule. A good one is priceless, but anything less is a $3.00 nightmare, and I'm better off without 'em. ?

I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement. We had 28 present again yesterday. I chose "O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing" because of its very short verses and modest range. And with 6 verses, there was opportunity for them to kind of learn it by the time we were done. It went much better...no one's ears were bleeding by the time we finished. ?
It all actually is a blessing in a way. We sing the one song, I rattle through 1/2 dozen announcements and then go straight into the preaching.
As you might imagine from reading my posts on here over the years, my preaching is not what one might call  fluffy and light. It's not harsh or mean, and I'm definitely not a screaming wind-sucker, but it is very direct and to the point, so a 30 minute message is usually enough. We then dismiss and go downstairs for a church family Sunday dinner every week. So the timing is working out well.
The weekly meal after church? It's our version of "breaking bread" together, and Im finding that the benefits of this to the people individually, and to the cohesion of the church as a whole, are so much more than I ever imagined. Have you ever noticed how many important things in scripture Christ did with the disciples were done over a meal?

Before I even ask this question, let me set up a little background. I am the new pastor of a little Baptist church in the North West. When I say "little", there were 6 active members when we arrived. We have a piano, and a piano player, but we are not using them at this time, simply because I have to lead singing and I have a deep voice with very limited range. The hymns are written too high, and the piano player can not transpose. So we sing out of the hymnal with no music. And it's pretty bad. I can't sing.
Within 6 weeks, we've grown surprisingly. There were almost 30 here last Sunday. Today promises to be good too, if everyone shows up. The issue is, 75% of those coming have little or no background in church, and certainly not in old hymns. The words and phrases in these old hymns are a foreign language to them, and the musical arrangements are often complex, although very beautiful, in the extreme. A 17 year old raised on Justin Bieber is lost.
I will not have CCM in church. So settle down, some of you, and put your self-righteous sword away. That is not my question. I will not use canned music (cassette tapes / CD's) either. I believe that singing and worship needs to be organic and from the heart to be real. So is there an alternative? Are there music choices that are Biblical, conservative and lovely while still being fairly simple and accessible to those not musically inclined?
And the first pharisee that gets on here and tries to accuse me somehow of compromise is gonna really stir me up.

Before I even ask this question, let me set up a little background. I am the new pastor of a little Baptist church in the North West. When I say "little", there were 6 active members when we arrived. We have a piano, and a piano player, but we are not using them at this time, simply because I have to lead singing and I have a deep voice with very limited range. The hymns are written too high, and the piano player can not transpose. So we sing out of the hymnal with no music. And it's pretty bad. I can't sing.
Within 6 weeks, we've grown surprisingly. There were almost 30 here last Sunday. Today promises to be good too, if everyone shows up. The issue is, 75% of those coming have little or no background in church, and certainly not in old hymns. The words and phrases in these old hymns are a foreign language to them, and the musical arrangements are often complex, although very beautiful, in the extreme. A 17 year old raised on Justin Bieber is lost.
I will not have CCM in church. So settle down, some of you, and put your self-righteous sword away. That is not my question. I will not use canned music (cassette tapes / CD's) either. I believe that singing and worship needs to be organic and from the heart to be real. So is there an alternative? Are there music choices that are Biblical, conservative and lovely while still being fairly simple and accessible to those not musically inclined?
And the first pharisee that gets on here and tries to accuse me somehow of compromise is gonna really stir me up.

We had a NY's fellowship last night here at the church, with games and finger food planned. Well, instead of just the core 10 church members showing up, 34 people arrived. People I had never met before. Including about 10 teenagers from town who are totally unchurched and unsaved. I spent the entire evening policing. Don't get me wrong, everyone had a great time, although the carpet in the fellowship hall may never recover. ?
When everything was done, and all were gone, I found myself upstairs in my office at about 12:30am this morning praying. There had been no preaching, no evangelism, no "church". I had no plan or desire to provide a teen shelter, I'm not interested in intertainment or compromising for numbers. This was soooo outside of my comfort zone and realm of experience.
As I prayed, trembling at my desk before God, fearful that I had somehow, unwittingly begun a path that would ultimately weaken and cheapen the church and the gospel, I was compelled  to randomly flip open my Bible that was laying there in front of me. It fell open to Hosea 6:6, "I will have mercy and not sacrifice..." The Spirit gave me great comfort as I sat there in that chair, assuring me that these lost, cussing, promiscuous kids (and adults) need to be loved too, and that it's not their job to come to where we are,  it's our job to go into the gutter and meet them where they are. With mercy.
So yeah, the carpet downstairs may never recover. Words were said in the church building that ought not be said anywhere (yes, they were gently corrected). Public displays of affection were ended with a word and a look by me, teens were run back inside from the dark parkinglot and I ended the night a nervous wreck. A joyful, amazed, exhausted nervous wreck. (Kids are not my thing)
A number of people have said they will difinitely be in church Sunday because of last night, a service which is held upstairs, which does produce the truth and gospel without reserve, without compromise. So, in the end, I left my study fully at peace, went to bed and slept like an exhausted baby.
 

We had a NY's fellowship last night here at the church, with games and finger food planned. Well, instead of just the core 10 church members showing up, 34 people arrived. People I had never met before. Including about 10 teenagers from town who are totally unchurched and unsaved. I spent the entire evening policing. Don't get me wrong, everyone had a great time, although the carpet in the fellowship hall may never recover. ?
When everything was done, and all were gone, I found myself upstairs in my office at about 12:30am this morning praying. There had been no preaching, no evangelism, no "church". I had no plan or desire to provide a teen shelter, I'm not interested in intertainment or compromising for numbers. This was soooo outside of my comfort zone and realm of experience.
As I prayed, trembling at my desk before God, fearful that I had somehow, unwittingly begun a path that would ultimately weaken and cheapen the church and the gospel, I was compelled  to randomly flip open my Bible that was laying there in front of me. It fell open to Hosea 6:6, "I will have mercy and not sacrifice..." The Spirit gave me great comfort as I sat there in that chair, assuring me that these lost, cussing, promiscuous kids (and adults) need to be loved too, and that it's not their job to come to where we are,  it's our job to go into the gutter and meet them where they are. With mercy.
So yeah, the carpet downstairs may never recover. Words were said in the church building that ought not be said anywhere (yes, they were gently corrected). Public displays of affection were ended with a word and a look by me, teens were run back inside from the dark parkinglot and I ended the night a nervous wreck. A joyful, amazed, exhausted nervous wreck. (Kids are not my thing)
A number of people have said they will difinitely be in church Sunday because of last night, a service which is held upstairs, which does produce the truth and gospel without reserve, without compromise. So, in the end, I left my study fully at peace, went to bed and slept like an exhausted baby.
 

Well, after 10 years since the last one, we've accepted a request to take a pastorate of a little church in Washington State 40 miles south of Spokane. They've been looking for a pastor with "callused hands and muddy boots" who can relate to the farmers, ranchers and working men of the area.
When they first contacted me back in June, we turned down the offer, not feeling we were up to it. But they never found a pastor they were looking for, and we never found the ministry we were looking for. So when they came back around again last month, we accepted after much prayer.
I'm taking off with a truck and u-haul here in about 3 days for the 2500 mile trip out there. I have no support, no job and no salary waiting. (The church has shrunk to a congregation of...6). We are not worried at all, but are excited to see what God does.
Our plan? To simply preach straight truth, pray much prayers and love unlovable people. Beyond that, it's in God's hands.