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prophet1

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Posts posted by prophet1

  1. Tribulation
    Act 14:22
    22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

    Jn 16:33
    33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    Mat 13:21
    21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

    Rom 5:3
    3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

    2Co 1:3-4
    3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
    4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

    1Th 3:4
    4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

    Rev 7:9
    9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white rOBes, and palms in their hands;
    Rev 7:14
    14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their rOBes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    Resurrection:
    Mat 24:29-31
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    1Th 4:16-17
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Rev 20:4-6
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Wrath
    1Th 5:9
    9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to OBtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Rev 6:12-17
    12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Rev 14:9-11
    9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

  2. prophet, my statement about being adult applies specifically to you. My education level is higher than yours, I can guarantee that.

    I said use resurrection. It is, because the dead will rise...but the LIVE people are not dead. Yes, it is the redemption of the body: being CAUGHT UP. Too bad you can't wrap your head around that fact. Now, you are being warned. Stop acting like a spoiled child that has to insult people in order to seem relevant.

    As to "arguing doctrine with men..." This isn't church. It's a discussion forum. If you don't like it, leave. Simple enough.

    The point isn't to 'appear relevant', no Christian should be motivated by that sort of vanity.

    The point is to limit the discussion to the words that can be cross-referenced in the KJV.


    I'll admit to being coarse on purpose, to make a point, that the meaning of non-Biblical terms is unimportant and a side-track to the actual study of God's Word.

    If it is too much, then I apologize and will tone down my responses.

  3. What is translated by the King James as "the most holy place" is the Hebrew "qodesh qodesh" (holy-holy).
    The King James adds the word "place", which is NOT in the original Hebrew.

    The construction "Holy of Holies" is a literal translation of a Hebrew idiom which is intended to express a superlative.

    Awesome!
    Except "holies" isn't a word, in English.
    Holy is an adjective, it isn't expressed as singular or plural, it is modifying a noun or pronoun that would express number.

    Ex: He is holy
    They are holy
    Holy Place
    The most Holy Place
    The Holy Lands
    See?

    In English, the part of speech being modified carries the burden of expressing number.
    The same adjective, neutral in number, modifies both singular and plural nouns/pronouns.

    If correcting English causes division, it is dividing those who care about being correct from those who don't.
  4. Actually, there are many hints toward a Pre-Trib Rapture.

    One such hint is

    1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to OBtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    God will not pour out His wrath on His own, but on the wicked. And that wrath will be throughout the Earth.

    No need looking for me when that period comes, because I won't be here... you won't find me.

    We are not appointed to wrath.
    So God will remove us from the Earth prior to pouring out His Wrath.

    This is where Dispensational Theory departs from Scripture.

    Mat 24:30-31
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Rev 6:12-17
    12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Rev 20:4-6
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Unlike Dispensational "teachers", God can count to two.

    The first resurrection preceeds the pouring out of Wrath, and occurs after the Tribulation Saints are Martyred.

    Only The Spirit of God can reveal this to you, through His Word.
  5. Use resurrection. I have no prOBlem with that...but those that are alive at the time we are "caught up" (scripture words...) aren't resurrected cuz they aren't dead. They are caught up...raptured.

    The specific term of rapture might not be in the KJB, but the meaning is. There is not one thing wrong with using the term.

    Ideas are nouns...and since God used men to pen the words "caught up" to describe the action of the event, the word rapture - which comes from an old french word meaning caught away - works well.

    Sorry I went over your education level here.

    1.Concrete nouns
    2.Abstract nouns

    1.Persons, places, things
    2.Ideas

    Maybe this simple chart will help.

    Rapture cant be a concrete noun, and anyone with an education can mock us for our use of it as one.
    We should care to be correct.

    The dead in Christ RISE first, so it is a resurrection.

    It is also the redemption of our bodies.

    It is not a feeling of euphoria.
  6. Cut out the pejoratives. Just because someone says something someone else doesn't like doesn't mean they don't read scripture themselves.

    Rapture. As in pre-trib. Can't wait to be caught away...which is a definition of rapture and as such an appropriate term.

    What's wrong with "resurrection"?

    It is a concrete noun.

    "Rapture" is an idea, like love, joy , peace, etc. It can't be used to mean an event, and God didn't use it to do so.

    Resurrection is an event, and God did use it.

    Stop me when I've said something wrong....
  7. Easy there. I surely don't agree with much of the charismatic nonsense, but does that mean they teach a false gospel? It may be a case of getting saved 'in spite of' the other church teachings, but let's not ascribe what us not earned.

    I'll use 'The Church of God' as an example:
    Those who teach that one cannot know that he is saved everlastingly, eternally, until death, are teaching a false gospel and are to be accursed.
  8. Holy is an adjective.

    There can be no such thing as "Holies".

    Try using the Scripture, instead of parroting men.

    The Scripture calls it the "Most Holy Place".

    The Scripture doesn't use the word "rapture", which in English is an abstract and not a concrete noun, so it couldn't possibly be the name of an event.
    In fact, by definition, rapture is imagined.

    Satan has more than one trick up his bejewelled sleeve, and extra-Biblical terms is one of them.

    You've dashed your foot against a stumbling stone, and fallen into Rome's mire, Brother.

    Of course, I'll be ridiculed and chided for this post, but, no matter.

    The children of Light are watching,
    His sheep hear His voice.



  9. I have said it before in these sames debates. there is little Scriptural evidence on a whole to support anything but a pre trib rapture. What don't you folks get about "no man knoweth" and thief in the night. 3.5 years into an OBvious reign of an antichrist is HARDLY no man knoweth.
    This aint rocket surgery Mike, come on.


    Oh, it seems you dont read the Scripture for yourself, or you would have seen this:

    1Th 5:4-5
    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day:we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    Apparently, you are just parroting others, and can't even read IThes 5- 2Thes 2, or you would know that only the lost will be surprised by this 'thief in the night'.
    Maybe many of the teachers, like Darby, weren't children of Light, who you parrot second hand.

    There is not one single hint towards a "Pre-Trib" Resurrection, in the Scripture.

    Try using the Biblical terms, first of all.
  10. not sure what exactly you are getting at?

    Not rocket science. The tools you're being taught to study Greek with are corrupt.
    Tomorrow, if you haven't already purchased it, go into the church bookstore and pick up the college textbook on exegesis, go to nearly the end of the intro, and read that the editor used the NIV on cd, to enlighten the exegesis of the Greek of the TR (which no one actually owns a copy of anyways).
  11. I completely understood Riplinger's point in Hazardous Materials, basically she says your stupid for using Greek and Hebrew because Satan is corrupting the bible through corrupt lexicons, all based on quotes that you can't even trust.

    Walk into your Church bookstore, pick up the college textbook on exegesis, read the intro where the editor thanks Zondervan for the use of the NIV on CD to aid in his study.

    Then get back to me on "corrupt".

  12. Those saved in the first half of the Tribulation are saved due to the "efforts" of the Jewish evangelists preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to the uttermost part of the earth.
    That is pretty clear from my post.
    BTW, the "evangelists" are the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation, and they have the "gifts" illustrated in the beginning of the book of Acts.

    I noticed that you gave no Scripture to suport your "Jewish evangelist" theory.

    Could you?
  13. Those saved in the first half of the Tribulation are saved due to the "efforts" of the Jewish evangelists preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to the uttermost part of the earth.
    That is pretty clear from my post.
    BTW, the "evangelists" are the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation, and they have the "gifts" illustrated in the beginning of the book of Acts.

    I noticed that you gave no Scripture to suport your "Jewish evangelist" theory.

    Could you?
  14. Are you referring to the Second Coming or the catching away of the Church (slang is Rapture)? Your Scriptural references apply only to the former and not the latter. You remember the Scriptures dealing with the catching away of the Church, don't you? You know the whole thief in the night; the hour no man knoweth, two in the field, one taken; etc etc etc.

    If you want to be here for the trib my friend, I recommend you collect and study every doomsday show on the discovery channel you can find. You will need it or just surrender your head without any attempt to evade and survive.

    It would be a shame if you are the only born again person prior to the Lord coming in the air not spared from this great tribulation. Who will you talk to about being left behind? It will be lonely for you. (I am poking fun-please forgive)

    Of course, if you are born again, you won't be here whether you have been deceived into mid or amil or not. Hey to each their own I suppose but it amazes me that folks can actually confuse the differences between the two events in Scripture.

    But hey, apparently there are diverse group of religious folks on this site supposedly being lead by the Spirit in their study of the Scriptures and almost none of them agree on much of anything, even repentance unto salvation.

    You mean this "two in the field"?

    Mat 24:40
    40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    Cuz, amazingly enough, it comesfrom the exact chapter I quoted, after the exact timing that Jesus gave to the Apostles of His Church.
  15. Mat 24:4
    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

    2Th 2:3
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means:for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    The word "imminent", concerning Christ's Return is, by default, heresy.
    We are warned not to be decieved by those who say it could be any minute.
    We have been given over 3 & 1/2 years worth of signs to "watch".

    If there was a "rapture"(non-scriptural word alert!) immimnent, what could we possibly watch? In a twinkling of an eye, the resurrection will take place.
    If it preceeds the Tribulation of those days, there would be nothing to watch, we would be whisked away before any signs began.

    IIThes is very clear, and OBviously referencing I Thes. 4&5, that some things have to appear first, and one is the Son of Perdition.

    So, carry on with your New Age doctrine, you will know the truth,
    when we are hunted like beasts, for not taking the Mark, or worshipping a false god.

  16. Absolutely not. The world has yet to see the fullness of God's wrath.

    The Jews have faced persecution many times throughout their history. But all of that will pale in comparison to the wrath of God unleashed on the world during the latter half of the Tribulation.

    That wrath will be uleashed on the Jews, first and foremost, because they will be the kingdom of the Man of Sin, who will reign from Jerusalem (for a very short time ;) )
  17. Knew it was going to be taken down sooner or later. I did get to watch it before it was taken down, telling me it isn't worth buying when it comes out on DVD

    Lahaye's books aren't worth buying, either.
    He took the philosophy of Plato(4 temperaments), a famous pedophile, and peddled it to Evangelicals.
    No great surprise then, that the movie is worthless. It is just greedy of gain.
  18. Just a consideration. JOB was pretty worn out in this section of his book, (which by the way verse 23 in chapter 19 did get fulfilled!)
    And as usual I like to reread a section to see the balance of what is being said compared to what is really being said.
    And I can sorta see what you are saying. Yet, I can also disagree with my bible notes in my gloss sometimes, too.
    The notes for verse 25 states -

    "Herein JOB declareth plainly that he had a full hope, that both the soul and body should enjoy the presence of God in the last resurrection."

    Which I agree, is a nice clarification on the subject of the resurrection, for 'pre-incarnate days'.
    But, I see a little something else in this. That JOB was stating the superior power of the Lord, that
    he was gonna be 'the last one standing' at the final moments of earths pre-destruction time.
    I think JOB was stating that he was going to 'recover' from this time of 'deep depression' that God was letting him go through.
    Verse 27 is the key, to me, that his reins were 'doing' something.

    Now, I am not as smart as I may 'put-on' sometimes, (which I am sure 'some' OBserve. :clapping:), but I heard an herbalist/preacher
    years ago explain 'reins' being the organ in our body that 'gives' us that conviction 'feeling'.
    [bro. Duane Cleghorn was his name, if any are curious.]
    He explained it quite in a biblical light.
    So in verse 27 JOB was speaking of that convictional emotion and feeling, and I see it as referring to JOB 'coming out' and gaining
    the victory in his 'future', yet not only at the resurrection, but after his final days with these so-called friends of his. For verse 26 says
    "yet in my flesh shall I see God", which goes on into 27 "Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold", speaking of his present body.

    But a note that I like says, for the end of verse 28, "For though his friends thought that he was but persecuted of God
    for his sins, yet he declareth that there was a deeper consideration: to wit, the trial of his faith and patience."

    He was to be an example of 'victory', out of 'failure of life', for others to behold and gain strength from, for their own 'trials'.

    IMO only.

    JOB 19:27
    27 Whom I shall see for myself,
    and mine eyes shall behold,
    and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

    "Though my reins be consumed within me" means:
    Though there is no sinew left on my bones.

    He's saying that though he has turned to dust and bones, somehow he will be in a body, standing face to face with his Redeemer, at the last day, on Earth.

    He gives the timing of this in chapter 14:


    JOB 14:12
    12 So man lieth down, and riseth not:
    till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake,
    nor be raised out of their sleep.

    JOB 14:14
    14 If a man die, shall he live again?
    all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
    till my change come.

    Which was reiterated here:

    1Co 15:51-54
    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


    Just a consideration. JOB was pretty worn out in this section of his book, (which by the way verse 23 in chapter 19 did get fulfilled!)
    And as usual I like to reread a section to see the balance of what is being said compared to what is really being said.
    And I can sorta see what you are saying. Yet, I can also disagree with my bible notes in my gloss sometimes, too.
    The notes for verse 25 states -

    "Herein JOB declareth plainly that he had a full hope, that both the soul and body should enjoy the presence of God in the last resurrection."

    Which I agree, is a nice clarification on the subject of the resurrection, for 'pre-incarnate days'.
    But, I see a little something else in this. That JOB was stating the superior power of the Lord, that
    he was gonna be 'the last one standing' at the final moments of earths pre-destruction time.
    I think JOB was stating that he was going to 'recover' from this time of 'deep depression' that God was letting him go through.
    Verse 27 is the key, to me, that his reins were 'doing' something.

    Now, I am not as smart as I may 'put-on' sometimes, (which I am sure 'some' OBserve. :clapping:), but I heard an herbalist/preacher
    years ago explain 'reins' being the organ in our body that 'gives' us that conviction 'feeling'.
    [bro. Duane Cleghorn was his name, if any are curious.]
    He explained it quite in a biblical light.
    So in verse 27 JOB was speaking of that convictional emotion and feeling, and I see it as referring to JOB 'coming out' and gaining
    the victory in his 'future', yet not only at the resurrection, but after his final days with these so-called friends of his. For verse 26 says
    "yet in my flesh shall I see God", which goes on into 27 "Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold", speaking of his present body.

    But a note that I like says, for the end of verse 28, "For though his friends thought that he was but persecuted of God
    for his sins, yet he declareth that there was a deeper consideration: to wit, the trial of his faith and patience."

    He was to be an example of 'victory', out of 'failure of life', for others to behold and gain strength from, for their own 'trials'.

    IMO only.

    JOB 19:27
    27 Whom I shall see for myself,
    and mine eyes shall behold,
    and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

    "Though my reins be consumed within me" means:
    Though there is no sinew left on my bones.

    He's saying that though he has turned to dust and bones, somehow he will be in a body, standing face to face with his Redeemer, at the last day, on Earth.

    He gives the timing of this in chapter 14:


  19. You reminded me of something, Bro. Mike.

    The calling of God is one calling, as well.

    There is no "call to preach", it is a command, etc.

    So it is with fruit of the Spirit.

    One fruit, yields much...
    You don't have some fruits, but not others.
    You have fruit, that remains.

    Yes, offspring is fruit.

    Good OBservation, Brother.

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