2bLikeJesus

Update.  My dad came through his emergency surgery and is recovering well.  They transferred him from the hospital to a rehab facility last night.  After he is sufficiently on his feet again, then starts the decision on what to do about all the tumors on his liver.  The doctor stated that those types of tumors that result from a metastasized spread from a cancer in another part of the body, typically respond well to chemo.  That is where the real battle will come in that needs prayer;  my dad's willingness to go through extraordinary means to prolong his life when what he really wants is to go to his eternal home.  All that he has left on this dirt ball is me and my siblings, all his friends and both wives (my mom died young in her 30's of cancer) are already waiting for him.  Please continue to pray for the salvation of my brother and sister.  Because I live a separated lifestyle with standards based on bible principles, they think I am in some kind a weird cult and they are just waiting for me to drink the koolaid.

Update.  My dad came through his emergency surgery and is recovering well.  They transferred him from the hospital to a rehab facility last night.  After he is sufficiently on his feet again, then starts the decision on what to do about all the tumors on his liver.  The doctor stated that those types of tumors that result from a metastasized spread from a cancer in another part of the body, typically respond well to chemo.  That is where the real battle will come in that needs prayer;  my dad's willingness to go through extraordinary means to prolong his life when what he really wants is to go to his eternal home.  All that he has left on this dirt ball is me and my siblings, all his friends and both wives (my mom died young in her 30's of cancer) are already waiting for him.  Please continue to pray for the salvation of my brother and sister.  Because I live a separated lifestyle with standards based on bible principles, they think I am in some kind a weird cult and they are just waiting for me to drink the koolaid.

My father, who is 80 years old is dying.  He has stage 4 colon cancer that has metastasized as well to his liver causing as the doctor stated "more tumors than can be counted" on his liver.  Last night he went into emergency surgery because his colon ruptured.  Needless to say none of this is operable or curable and prognosis is less than 2 months tops if he survives what happened last night.  Now for the good news. My dad has a very solid testimony of salvation and obvious influences of the Holy Spirit in his life.  However, my brother Jeff is lost, knows it, and doesn't care.  My sister I am not sure about.  She says she is saved but her beliefs are modern neo-evangelical "works salvation" since she believes every time you drop a stitch you need to be re-saved.  Has never read the bible and has no desire to (which I don't understand if you are truly saved).  My prayer is more for my brother and sister than my dad who is at peace with finally going home.  Prayer for him would simply be that he passes as comfortably as possible.  
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

My father, who is 80 years old is dying.  He has stage 4 colon cancer that has metastasized as well to his liver causing as the doctor stated "more tumors than can be counted" on his liver.  Last night he went into emergency surgery because his colon ruptured.  Needless to say none of this is operable or curable and prognosis is less than 2 months tops if he survives what happened last night.  Now for the good news. My dad has a very solid testimony of salvation and obvious influences of the Holy Spirit in his life.  However, my brother Jeff is lost, knows it, and doesn't care.  My sister I am not sure about.  She says she is saved but her beliefs are modern neo-evangelical "works salvation" since she believes every time you drop a stitch you need to be re-saved.  Has never read the bible and has no desire to (which I don't understand if you are truly saved).  My prayer is more for my brother and sister than my dad who is at peace with finally going home.  Prayer for him would simply be that he passes as comfortably as possible.  
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

My father, who is 80 years old is dying.  He has stage 4 colon cancer that has metastasized as well to his liver causing as the doctor stated "more tumors than can be counted" on his liver.  Last night he went into emergency surgery because his colon ruptured.  Needless to say none of this is operable or curable and prognosis is less than 2 months tops if he survives what happened last night.  Now for the good news. My dad has a very solid testimony of salvation and obvious influences of the Holy Spirit in his life.  However, my brother Jeff is lost, knows it, and doesn't care.  My sister I am not sure about.  She says she is saved but her beliefs are modern neo-evangelical "works salvation" since she believes every time you drop a stitch you need to be re-saved.  Has never read the bible and has no desire to (which I don't understand if you are truly saved).  My prayer is more for my brother and sister than my dad who is at peace with finally going home.  Prayer for him would simply be that he passes as comfortably as possible.  
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

My father, who is 80 years old is dying.  He has stage 4 colon cancer that has metastasized as well to his liver causing as the doctor stated "more tumors than can be counted" on his liver.  Last night he went into emergency surgery because his colon ruptured.  Needless to say none of this is operable or curable and prognosis is less than 2 months tops if he survives what happened last night.  Now for the good news. My dad has a very solid testimony of salvation and obvious influences of the Holy Spirit in his life.  However, my brother Jeff is lost, knows it, and doesn't care.  My sister I am not sure about.  She says she is saved but her beliefs are modern neo-evangelical "works salvation" since she believes every time you drop a stitch you need to be re-saved.  Has never read the bible and has no desire to (which I don't understand if you are truly saved).  My prayer is more for my brother and sister than my dad who is at peace with finally going home.  Prayer for him would simply be that he passes as comfortably as possible.  
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

My father, who is 80 years old is dying.  He has stage 4 colon cancer that has metastasized as well to his liver causing as the doctor stated "more tumors than can be counted" on his liver.  Last night he went into emergency surgery because his colon ruptured.  Needless to say none of this is operable or curable and prognosis is less than 2 months tops if he survives what happened last night.  Now for the good news. My dad has a very solid testimony of salvation and obvious influences of the Holy Spirit in his life.  However, my brother Jeff is lost, knows it, and doesn't care.  My sister I am not sure about.  She says she is saved but her beliefs are modern neo-evangelical "works salvation" since she believes every time you drop a stitch you need to be re-saved.  Has never read the bible and has no desire to (which I don't understand if you are truly saved).  My prayer is more for my brother and sister than my dad who is at peace with finally going home.  Prayer for him would simply be that he passes as comfortably as possible.  
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

I store all my food fully processed just above my belt...

Nothing like quoting bible principle and immediately being excused from Jury Duty.  I simply told them that according to scriptures I can not and will not condemn anyone except by the testimony of two or more direct witnesses regardless of any circumstantial evidence.  They asked me to leave so fast it made my head spin.

Got into a discussion with my friend about sports.  Somehow it became a discussion/argument over what sport God likes.  I settled it when I said "you can't get past the very first verse in the bible without that being revealed".  It says, "In the Big Inning God created...

Got into a discussion with my friend about sports.  Somehow it became a discussion/argument over what sport God likes.  I settled it when I said "you can't get past the very first verse in the bible without that being revealed".  It says, "In the Big Inning God created...

I store all my food fully processed just above my belt...

Got into a discussion with my friend about sports.  Somehow it became a discussion/argument over what sport God likes.  I settled it when I said "you can't get past the very first verse in the bible without that being revealed".  It says, "In the Big Inning God created...

Unfortunately the ladies "Bible Study" at our church run by the Pastors wife which entails a study SHE does with notes and blanks to fill in.  Very little participation in a study by the ladies themselves, there or at home.  She is seeking something that will get everyone involved in looking up scriptures, and discussing what they found.  

You are exactly right.  That canned stuff is "mystery fish" because it sure doesn't taste like fresh caught tuna.  

I posted this before but in 2014, so I will post it again in response.
  I Posted June 24, 2014 I was out soul winning, door knocking in the area when someone who answered the door stated "I have heard of your church, you guys are the one's with all those rules."  I looked at him genuinely confused and said "we don't have ANY rules."   He said, "then why do you guys dress so different, and you don't drink, go dancing, go to movie theaters, or party like normal folks, and you go to church like several times a week?"  I told him it's because of a love for God and what he has done for us.  We find principles in His word that indicates what would be most pleasing to Him and out of love we do all we can to please Him.  You don't have to do ANY of those things to attend our church, that would make them rules that must be followed.  You don't need to follow any of those things to be saved either and on your way to heaven.  I then got the chance to explain a non-works salvation to him.
A person who needs rules, doesn't understand principles.
Galatians 5:18 (KJV) 
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.  If you are truly led of the Spirit, the Spirit will NEVER lead you to do anything that is contrary to God's will and Word, there is no need for the law. 
Rules are neccesary for a heart away from God.
Galatians 3:19a (KJV) 
19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions
1 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV) 
12  All things are lawful unto me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any [the Principle].
 1 Corinthians 10:23 (KJV) 
23  All things are lawful for me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not [the Principle]. 
The law makes nothing perfect.
 Hebrews 7:19 (KJV) 
19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 
The law was not made for righteous men.  1 Timothy 1:8-10 (KJV) 
8  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disOBedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 
Galatians 3:24 (KJV) 
24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 
So many people, especially IFB's who have been raised since children in an IFB church, have no idea WHY we have the standards we do.  Until they understand that a standard is simply a self-imposed boundary set to help us keep a conviction that was formed by understanding a principle from God's word.  You first find a principle in God's word, and from that principle you form a conviction, and then a standard is set by yourself to help you keep that conviction. Because of this, some standards are entirely yours alone.  For instance, I will not allow myself to own a boat.  There is absolutely nothing wrong or sinful about boat ownership, but for me, outdoor recreation is a huge draw and I am weak enough to it ( "I will not be brought under the power of any"), that my ministry for God is hurt by it. Until people have standards put IN them by understanding the principles behind them, instead of ON them because "that's just the way we do things" they will never have them for their own and it is easy for them to backslide as soon as they are out of the house.  
 
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

I posted this before but in 2014, so I will post it again in response.
  I Posted June 24, 2014 I was out soul winning, door knocking in the area when someone who answered the door stated "I have heard of your church, you guys are the one's with all those rules."  I looked at him genuinely confused and said "we don't have ANY rules."   He said, "then why do you guys dress so different, and you don't drink, go dancing, go to movie theaters, or party like normal folks, and you go to church like several times a week?"  I told him it's because of a love for God and what he has done for us.  We find principles in His word that indicates what would be most pleasing to Him and out of love we do all we can to please Him.  You don't have to do ANY of those things to attend our church, that would make them rules that must be followed.  You don't need to follow any of those things to be saved either and on your way to heaven.  I then got the chance to explain a non-works salvation to him.
A person who needs rules, doesn't understand principles.
Galatians 5:18 (KJV) 
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.  If you are truly led of the Spirit, the Spirit will NEVER lead you to do anything that is contrary to God's will and Word, there is no need for the law. 
Rules are neccesary for a heart away from God.
Galatians 3:19a (KJV) 
19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions
1 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV) 
12  All things are lawful unto me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any [the Principle].
 1 Corinthians 10:23 (KJV) 
23  All things are lawful for me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not [the Principle]. 
The law makes nothing perfect.
 Hebrews 7:19 (KJV) 
19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 
The law was not made for righteous men.  1 Timothy 1:8-10 (KJV) 
8  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disOBedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 
Galatians 3:24 (KJV) 
24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 
So many people, especially IFB's who have been raised since children in an IFB church, have no idea WHY we have the standards we do.  Until they understand that a standard is simply a self-imposed boundary set to help us keep a conviction that was formed by understanding a principle from God's word.  You first find a principle in God's word, and from that principle you form a conviction, and then a standard is set by yourself to help you keep that conviction. Because of this, some standards are entirely yours alone.  For instance, I will not allow myself to own a boat.  There is absolutely nothing wrong or sinful about boat ownership, but for me, outdoor recreation is a huge draw and I am weak enough to it ( "I will not be brought under the power of any"), that my ministry for God is hurt by it. Until people have standards put IN them by understanding the principles behind them, instead of ON them because "that's just the way we do things" they will never have them for their own and it is easy for them to backslide as soon as they are out of the house.  
 
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

I posted this before but in 2014, so I will post it again in response.
  I Posted June 24, 2014 I was out soul winning, door knocking in the area when someone who answered the door stated "I have heard of your church, you guys are the one's with all those rules."  I looked at him genuinely confused and said "we don't have ANY rules."   He said, "then why do you guys dress so different, and you don't drink, go dancing, go to movie theaters, or party like normal folks, and you go to church like several times a week?"  I told him it's because of a love for God and what he has done for us.  We find principles in His word that indicates what would be most pleasing to Him and out of love we do all we can to please Him.  You don't have to do ANY of those things to attend our church, that would make them rules that must be followed.  You don't need to follow any of those things to be saved either and on your way to heaven.  I then got the chance to explain a non-works salvation to him.
A person who needs rules, doesn't understand principles.
Galatians 5:18 (KJV) 
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.  If you are truly led of the Spirit, the Spirit will NEVER lead you to do anything that is contrary to God's will and Word, there is no need for the law. 
Rules are neccesary for a heart away from God.
Galatians 3:19a (KJV) 
19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions
1 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV) 
12  All things are lawful unto me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any [the Principle].
 1 Corinthians 10:23 (KJV) 
23  All things are lawful for me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not [the Principle]. 
The law makes nothing perfect.
 Hebrews 7:19 (KJV) 
19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 
The law was not made for righteous men.  1 Timothy 1:8-10 (KJV) 
8  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disOBedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 
Galatians 3:24 (KJV) 
24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 
So many people, especially IFB's who have been raised since children in an IFB church, have no idea WHY we have the standards we do.  Until they understand that a standard is simply a self-imposed boundary set to help us keep a conviction that was formed by understanding a principle from God's word.  You first find a principle in God's word, and from that principle you form a conviction, and then a standard is set by yourself to help you keep that conviction. Because of this, some standards are entirely yours alone.  For instance, I will not allow myself to own a boat.  There is absolutely nothing wrong or sinful about boat ownership, but for me, outdoor recreation is a huge draw and I am weak enough to it ( "I will not be brought under the power of any"), that my ministry for God is hurt by it. Until people have standards put IN them by understanding the principles behind them, instead of ON them because "that's just the way we do things" they will never have them for their own and it is easy for them to backslide as soon as they are out of the house.  
 
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

I posted this before but in 2014, so I will post it again in response.
  I Posted June 24, 2014 I was out soul winning, door knocking in the area when someone who answered the door stated "I have heard of your church, you guys are the one's with all those rules."  I looked at him genuinely confused and said "we don't have ANY rules."   He said, "then why do you guys dress so different, and you don't drink, go dancing, go to movie theaters, or party like normal folks, and you go to church like several times a week?"  I told him it's because of a love for God and what he has done for us.  We find principles in His word that indicates what would be most pleasing to Him and out of love we do all we can to please Him.  You don't have to do ANY of those things to attend our church, that would make them rules that must be followed.  You don't need to follow any of those things to be saved either and on your way to heaven.  I then got the chance to explain a non-works salvation to him.
A person who needs rules, doesn't understand principles.
Galatians 5:18 (KJV) 
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.  If you are truly led of the Spirit, the Spirit will NEVER lead you to do anything that is contrary to God's will and Word, there is no need for the law. 
Rules are neccesary for a heart away from God.
Galatians 3:19a (KJV) 
19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions
1 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV) 
12  All things are lawful unto me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any [the Principle].
 1 Corinthians 10:23 (KJV) 
23  All things are lawful for me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not [the Principle]. 
The law makes nothing perfect.
 Hebrews 7:19 (KJV) 
19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 
The law was not made for righteous men.  1 Timothy 1:8-10 (KJV) 
8  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disOBedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 
Galatians 3:24 (KJV) 
24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 
So many people, especially IFB's who have been raised since children in an IFB church, have no idea WHY we have the standards we do.  Until they understand that a standard is simply a self-imposed boundary set to help us keep a conviction that was formed by understanding a principle from God's word.  You first find a principle in God's word, and from that principle you form a conviction, and then a standard is set by yourself to help you keep that conviction. Because of this, some standards are entirely yours alone.  For instance, I will not allow myself to own a boat.  There is absolutely nothing wrong or sinful about boat ownership, but for me, outdoor recreation is a huge draw and I am weak enough to it ( "I will not be brought under the power of any"), that my ministry for God is hurt by it. Until people have standards put IN them by understanding the principles behind them, instead of ON them because "that's just the way we do things" they will never have them for their own and it is easy for them to backslide as soon as they are out of the house.  
 
Bro. Garry
In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

Apart from a scriptural argument, I would find it difficult to receive marriage, family, and child rearing counsel from my Pastor if he had never been married with children.  However, I find no problem with someone on the mission field being unmarried and starting churches to be turned over to a local person before moving on to start another church plant.  I keep the work of an evangelist completely separate and different from that of a Pastor.
Bro. Garry
In His will. By His power.  For His glory.

Victory Baptist Church, Roseburg OR.  Pastor Clint Caviness

Hi Thief on the Cross.
I will give you my view on it; others' views may differ.
 
 
First, I'm not sure how the area (that you're referring to) became known as "the altar". At one time, it was called things like "the mourner's bench". Charles Finney called it "the anxious bench".
Those latter two names will give you the significance of it. Basically, the idea and purpose for it is that it gives a person (who may be under conviction) the opportunity to respond to that conviction at the earliest possible moment after hearing the word of God preached. The idea being, that if a person possibly waits, they may (or may not) make a decision in response to God's word.
 
 
That's a good question. I personally believe that to call that area "the altar" isn't really in keeping with the biblical use of the term. The altar was the place (in the Old Testament) where animals were sacrificed and slain. There was also the altar of incense.
Various people also built altars in the Old Testament prior to the institution of the law. I don't recall if any of those altars were used for anything other than sacrificing animals. They may have been; I just don't recall right now.
In the New Testament (aside from the four gospels), the only altars that are mentioned which aren't for Israel's sacrificing of animals are...
1. An altar to false gods in Acts 17.
2. An altar mentioned in Hebrews 13 that belongs to "us". I think most people would say that this altar is the cross of Christ since that is where he was slain.
3. The altar of God in heaven in Revelation.
Now aside from that, is there a biblical reason for doing this? I would say that's up to the individual church...
My reasons in favor of it:
1. When the people heard the word of the Lord read in Nehemiah 8, they immediately acted upon it.
2. When the keeper of the prison asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, he was told and immediately acted upon it.
Now, it must be understood that in those two examples, there wasn't "an altar" (as we're referring to). They heard the word of God and immediately acted on it. So, people can still act on what they've heard from God's word without an "altar". My main reason for using those examples is that it (the altar call) gives people the opportunity to act immediately after hearing the word of God. However, the actual "acting on God's word" takes place in our daily lives.
My reasons against it...
There is nothing in the bible (that I know of) to describe what we know as today's altar call.
At the same time, there is nothing in God's word describing a Sunday School, Church Choirs, Assistant Pastors, etc. There are many things done today that fall under what I would call "Christian Liberty". There may not be anything expressly supporting them in scripture; however, there isn't anything expressly forbidding them either. So churches are at liberty to use them.
My concern (apart from the name itself) is that "the altar call" has become more than it was intended to be. Some use that time to pressure people. Some use it as a way of measuring a successful sermon. Some use it as a way to compare themselves with other churches. I want to stress "some"...not all!
Now keep in mind, these are my thoughts on it. Others may disagree. In fact, if anyone knows that I'm mistaken in any part of this, I would hope they would point that out to me so that I can make it right.

Sigh....I don't get to talk to JW's anymore.  The elders of their church have banned them from knocking on my door anymore after I led two of their own to the Lord. 
 

That's all that is on our sign (scripture). We've been blasted for some of the verses we've put up, too. Seems the lost don't want to read verses that aren't all sweetness and light.

Sometimes it is not the words themselves, but the attitude in which those words were administered.  We observe the words, but God the Holy Spirit is able to look upon the attitude.  Thus if God the Holy Spirit brought conviction against what was done, although you or I do not see the fault, then God the Holy Spirit should be heeded.  Although I also may not have recognized any fault in Brother Jim's responses, I do certainly honor his humility in publicly providing the above expression of humble repentance at the direction of God the Holy Spirit.