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Donald

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Everything posted by Donald

  1. Hello John81 You said....... The tithe aspect I mentioned because that's how I've heard IFB pastors raise the issue of prosperity for believers. They teach specifically that if a Christian tithes, and gives more afterward, then they will be blessed financially. Along with this is the teaching that if they don't tithe, God "will get His tithe" in some other way; at which point some IFB pastors start talking about God taking His tithe by causing non-tithing believers cars to break down, or to have a serious health problem, or lose their jobs. Thus far, I've never heard an IFB pastor preach on this aspect without using the tithe as their basis for why the congregation would be financially rewarded by God, or punished by God. Some pastors go so far as to accuse poorer members of their church of not tithing, even when they are giving a tenth each Sunday, saying that if they were truly tithing they would have more money. That's not right on many levels. I've heard IFB pastors give virtually the same sermon on this issue that is heard from some of the TV prosperity preachers. They tell believers to tithe and God will bless them a hundred fold. Then they tell them to keep tithing after they get more money and God will keep increasing their money a hundredfold. It sounds like you have visited my Church. This is exactly what my pastor says, almost every week. As expected; This must be a “regular teaching”, in most IFB Churches! (What a shame!) We have God’s Word and a life changing Gospel message, and we get sidetracked by a love of money!
  2. Hello Matt My pastor is not “computer savvy” so I strongly doubt that he will ever find this site or my thread. I hope that I would never publically criticize my pastor or Church, in a way that could hurt them in any way. As for being publically criticized myself; That is what I am here for. My hope and prayer, is that if I am WRONG in any area of my thinking or behavior, that I am informed about it, so that I can get right....... “For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.” (1 Corinthians 11:31)
  3. Normally I would not have started a thread in this part of this site, because the point of any thread is to minister to as many people as possible: Therefore I had questioned the wisdom of this site(and others like it), for even having parts of their site unavailable to everyone. But this morning I saw the light, when the Lord gave me “this subject” to post about. This is something that every IFB needs to hear, while those who are not IFB, don’t need to hear; Because it could to turn them away from IFB Churches. ------------------------ The subject of this thread is money. I having been an pastor for 25 years or so and an IFB pastor for c.20 years, but I had never sat(as a member), in an IFB Church. (If you want me to explain this I will later). But the Lord has seen fit, to place me as a “member” of a good IFB Church for the last year and a half or so. I don’t know exactly what the LORD is up to, by not opening a door for me to pastor my own Church during this time, but every day I keep reminding myself, that “The Lord knows what He is doing”! Anyway, it’s been a good year and a half for my wife and myself, because we are still in the center of God’s will and am still being wonderfully blessed by Him: And praise the Lord I am ministering more than ever through my job and daily visits to a local college. One of the areas in which we are being blessed, is in the good preaching we are hearing(for the most part) from the pulpit, and also “some” of the practical things we are learning, about the workings of an IFB Church. Now don’t get me wrong; For 20 years I had also been in God’s will, as I pastured IFB Churches, but they had not been a “carbon copy” of other IFB Churches because I had never sat under an IFB pastor. Now, I can get a little closer to the point of this thread. My pastor is a good man: And even though we are not on the same page in every area, I generally get a blessing from his messages. But.... he has a problem, in the area of money! I won’t go into every detail of “this problem”, because space would not allow it. But recently he completed a series of “talks” on Sunday night about the personal finances of the members of his Church; And during the 6 or 7 weeks of this series, the Lord has revealed a lot of things to my heart(none of which were the intent of his talks). His intent was made clear, from beginning to end. Basically he taught(and believes), that “gain is Godliness” and that if you are not “well to do” financially, than something is wrong in your life and in your walk with the Lord! He believes that every “good Christian” will drive a nice car and have a nice house and be out of debt and will always pay all of his bills on time etc. And he bases this belief upon God’s promise to bless us for our faithfulness..... “Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.” (Luke 6:38) Although this is one of his favorite verses to quote; he seems to be blind to others.... “Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?” (James 2:5) “Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.” (Matthew 19:21) “For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.” (Matthew 26:11) ....along with thousands of other Scriptures. ------------------------ Now although this is bad enough, it goes further. He regularly “tweaks” other Scripture passages, to make them apply to money, when they don’t really have anything to do with “filthy lucre” at all. Sure enough, during this series on “our personal finances”, I had come very close to leaving this Church, but the Lord would not give me permission. As I said before, I trust that “the Lord knows what He is doing”, and this morning, I realized that my son(who lives on the other side of the country), who also attends a solid IFB Church, might be being exposed to this same kind of error. As I began to consider the kind of warnings I might give to him, I thought about all the people that log on to this site and what I could say to warn you. One more thing; During my years as a pastor I had received a lot of literature from IFB Churches and pastors and had noticed a preoccupation with money with most of them. Also, during my time in this Church, we have had several guest speakers, who seem to have fallen into the same error as my pastor and seem to echo some of the same tripe that he preaches. Therefore it could be that this problem is so widespread, that I will get an avalanche criticism and maybe even be kicked off of this site. Please don’t do that. If you think I am wrong, lets talk about it in light of Scripture and see who God agrees with.
  4. Hello lefton You said....... “I went soulwinning with another woman last week who is much more experienced and definitely way more bold than I am. Anyway, I'm new with the door to door and prefer going with someone who is experienced instead of just sending a child with me to carry the gospel tracts, etc. Her tactic after inviting them to church is, whether they say "yes" or "no", to ask if they know for sure they're going to heaven when they die. If they say "no" she'll ask if they'd like to learn how they can know for sure, I have yet to witness anyone want to continue the conversation. Personally, I think it's very abrupt and intrusive to ask a perfect stranger their spiritual situation on the front steps to someone they've never met before. Also, these people have no idea who we are other than saying when they answer the door we say who we are and what church we're from. Most people have no clue about doctrinal differences from church to church to begin with.” Nice to see you out knocking on doors; And although I do have an opinion about the way it should be done, I am very careful not to bad-mouth it; Just because things may not be done exactly the way I would do them. But, your friends method of getting to the heart of the issue(question), when it comes to people’s eternity, seems “doctrinally sound” to me. Yes it could seem, “abrupt and intrusive”, but when you realize that people are dying and going to hell, a little intrusiveness may be called for. My only qualm with it, is are you being led by the Spirit of God, when you do it. Although soul winning like this, is perfectly legal and doctrinally sound, that doesn’t always mean that it should be done this way every time. I try to teach people to be more sensitive to the Holy Spirit’s leading, in the area of soul winning; Therefore if the Lord tells you to be abrupt and intrusive, than go for it, but if He isn’t than we should be more laid back. At this point, I started to type the following words..... “The bottom line is, any kind of soul winning is always good.....” But I felt like that would be a mistake. In “soul winning”, we are representing the Lord; Therefore it is important that we be respectful and kind and courteous, while telling people that they are going to go to hell, if they don’t get saved. No, I don’t tell everyone that I witness to, that they are going to go to hell; but I have told some people that, as I was following the Lord’s leadership. The true bottom line in all of this is; You can’t ever go wrong, if you are following the Lord’s instructions: Therefore, your top priority should be to learn to follow His leading more closely. Have a wonderful day.
  5. Good afternoon wretched You asked...... “Please expound unto this voice of the Lord you mentioned hearing (regularly I gather from your post).” Yes, I “regularly” hear the Lord’s “still small voice”. Your question reminds me of some trouble I got in to, at my first Church. The deacon board called me in and asked me to “stop mentioning” during my messages, about how the Lord told me this or that; They explained how it was upsetting to some people. I responded to them that “daily hearing from the Lord”, is a big part of the real Christian life.... “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:” (John 10:27)
  6. Hello Jerry You asked....... “Have you been baptized & become a member of a New Testament Church. The Christian needs a church family.” Of course. The fact is, if I had not followed the Lord in believers baptism and joined a Church, I would not be posting on this forum today(33 years later). Even though water baptism has NOTHING to do with a person’s salvation, it is our first act of obedience, after we are saved. Those who refuse to be baptized, are not going to follow any other of the Lord’s instructions. When it comes to “fruit judging”, obedience to Christ in this area should be higher on our radar. What I mean is, we may doubt a person’s salvation if their life is filled with sin, but I am becoming more and more doubtful of a person’s genuine relationship with Christ, if they continually refuse to be baptized.
  7. Hello wretched You asked....... “Can you go into detail of what you mean by this and some Scripture to prove it? Mainly the last part, thanks” Yes I can. What I have described here, is clearly taught in the Bible, but it must be searched out and the “dots” need to be connected. There are several doctrines and teachings that are clearly taught in God’s Word, that can not be seen unless a “believer” connects the dots. And this is one of them. (1) First dot: Pastors are to teach and warn their Churches about the dangers of sin... “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2 Timothy 4:2) This term, “be instant in season, out of season”, is not talking about “always being ready to preach”, but it is talking about being “willing” to preach the message God has given you, even it the people don’t want to hear it. (Even when God’s message is out of season!) (2) Second dot: Many pastors will not be willing to do this. We know this because of the “special reward” promised to those few men, who put God’s will above their own..... 1 Peter 5:2-4 V.2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; V.3 Neither as being lords over [God’s] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. V.4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. Unfortunately most pastors(especially today), are more concerned with keeping their job, than obeying the LORD! (3) Third dot: God’s response to Christians who refuse to repent, is clearly spelled out in Scripture.... 1 Corinthians 11:29-31 V.29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. V.30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. V.31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. God was warning these Christians to repent; First by conviction, then if they didn’t listen they would become weak; If they continued to not repent, they would get sick: And if they continued to refuse to repent, than they would be taken on home to heaven early(“and many sleep”)! In that case, if the pastor of that Church had not been warning them from the pulpit about their sin, than “their blood would be on his hands”! ------------------------ Now, these are just (3 dots about this subject), but there are many more! Therefore, when you come to Eze.3:16-ff, and you have been studying the rest of the Bible, the application is clear. Note: I can think of several things, that can ONLY BE SEEN IN THE BIBLE, by a “believer” that is studying and putting the “dots together”..... 1 Corinthians 2:14-15 V.14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. V.15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. ------------------------ For example; We all know about the “7 year tribulation period”! (But this teaching CAN NOT BE SEEN IN SCRIPTURE, unless a “believer” puts the dots together!)
  8. Hello lefton The scripture in question, is this..... Ezekiel 3:17-18 V.17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. V.18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. As we can see, this instruction is to warn “the house of Israel”(God’s people), about their backsliding from the LORD. And every Christian pastor is a watchman; Who the Lord has given the care of the Local Church. If a pastor is too cowardly to preach the truth to his Church and God’s chastening hand falls upon any of them, than their blood will be on his hands. But unfortunately many pastors today, misuse and twist this passage, in order to push their congregation into laboring in the flesh in the area of soul winning. (Their motives may be pure, but the result is unproductive, because it is being accomplished by man’s power alone.)
  9. Hello Salyan You asked......... “By 'has a problem with', do you mean they agree with the idea or disagree with it?” What I mean is, the practices of God’s Church; “Worshiping the LORD” & “preaching the Gospel”, has worked for 2000 years now; Therefore just because it may seem “old fashioned” to some people, does not mean that it needs to be “energized”(by us), in any way. And what I meant by my post, was that my Church, seems to always be “busy”, trying to come up with some new program or gimmick, to try and get “more people into Church”! (In a mistaken effort to be more relevant to today’s society.) Once again, I do not try to tell them they are wrong! For all I know the Lord is leading the pastor in this direction(and he needs to follow the Lord’s instructions); Because this(in itself), is not sinful at all. I just feel as though it is “unwise”! I once tried to voice my concern at a staff meeting(I had been invited to), but was shot down by the answer; (This works, so it must be right!) After pointing out that that was “pragmatism” and that it shouldn’t shape our decisions, I decided not to attend any more staff meetings. (Maybe I am wrong!) I praise the Lord for the fine Church, that He is allowing me and my family to attend at this time and I am going to continue to be a help to the pastor in any way that I can.
  10. Hello lefton I can’t seem to find this new thread. Could you please post a link here for it. Thanks.
  11. The other day after my first post here, someone asked me if I could share my salvation testimony. Here it is. Back in the fall of 1981, I was working as a machinist in a machine shop, with no background at all, with any kind of Christian Church(being raised out of Church). And one afternoon, I was in my pickup during lunch and found a preacher on the radio (Oliver B. Green), who shared the Gospel with me and announced that if anyone that was listening wanted to get saved, they could right then; And he led me in a sinners prayer(right their in my truck), and I was born again. When I raised my head after saying “Amen”, I did not feel any different at all, but all I knew was that I had “asked Jesus to save me”! Well that after noon, it quickly became clear to me that something had changed(although at that moment I didn’t understand); My life as a machinist at that shop, was identical to the lives of everyone else that worked there: What I mean is, I cussed like a sailor(or a machinist), using the “S” word in almost every sentence I spoke; And from that first day, I noticed that every time I spoke a dirty word, that I felt very bad about it; (God’s conviction). Therefore, I quickly STOPPED CUSSING! I will never forget two or three days later, I was approached by a fellow worker at the shop, with a question; “Hey, everybody is wondering why, you stopped cussing all of a sudden?” I responded with, “Because I got saved!” I had truly been born again and God had truly started to change my life! Also I found an old Gideon Bible in the glove box of that old truck and stared reading it during lunch and break times at work: I also acquired another Bible that I hid in the bathroom of my home, where I would go and hide from my wife to read at home. (God had blessed me with a “sincere desire for the milk of the Word”!) And another testimony for another time, could be how that over the next few months, the LORD started putting “real pressure” upon me, to witness to my wife; So much pressure, that I gave in to and she soon trusted Christ herself. One more thing: I distinctly remember “seeing” this change in “myself” a few months after I had gotten saved, with my desire to be obedient to the Lord and my great desire to read and study His word; And I clearly remember telling myself, ... That “If this was real, than this new lifestyle would never change”. In other words, if my relationship with God was real, than it should be the most important thing in my life. One more thing(& I promise this is the last). I also clearly remember coming to an impasse after a few months; I was having such a GREAT TIME in my study of God’s Word, but I was missing out on all the good preaching that I could have been listing to on the radio. (I honestly do not know how I learned this, but I “stopped and prayed about it” and asked the Lord which one I should do! And “He answered me” and told me to study my Bible!!!) The reason I am so surprised that I “knew to do this” and that I “knew the Lord’s voice”, at such a young Spiritual age; Is because it wasn’t until several years later, I decided to make “knowing the Lord’s voice”, the top priority in my Christian life. Yet, I was listening to His instructions as a baby Christian. I praise the Lord for His wonderful blessings upon my life.
  12. I have personally felt the way this speaker talked about(“being pushed to the breaking point”), but praise the Lord, He always reminds me that ... “I am just in this world and not of it!” All the wicked and corrupt people that seem to be running this world and this country(the USA), can have it; My home is in heaven!
  13. Hello irishman You said..... “Welcome Donald, I hope this forum helps you sort things out.” I wanted to quickly share with you the sideways/blessing I got from your response. At first I was slightly offended, thinking.... “I don’t have anything to sort out”; But the LORD quickly reminded me, that I have not yet arrived, so therefore I will always have “something” to sort out. And I do think this forum will be used by the Lord, to help me;(Just as others have!) Have a good morning
  14. Hello swathdiver Thanks for the welcome, and yes I will talk about my salvation experience, but it’s past 2am right now and it will take several paragraphs, so I will save it for later: (But it’s a good one, that I have retold countless times, when explaining to prospective converts how real salvation changes a person.) And your right, the real function of a Church is to feed the flock; and that does include teaching and encouraging soul-winning. Therefore today, while I was out and about, I started thinking about my OP, and realized that it needed some work. There is nothing really wrong with stressing soul winning; But “maybe” it’s the way soul winning is talked about in this particular Church, that bothers me. (I will tell you exactly what is wrong with it!) It is repeated all the time, “if we don’t tell them about Jesus they will go to hell and their blood will be on our hands”! Well as we all know, this is a reference to Eze.3:16, but it is a misinterpretation of it. (But more about that, if anyone needs it.) Oh, by the way; Even though I disagree with this(and a few other points in this Church), I am very careful to always respect and support the pastor(just as all of us should). (Unless of course a pastor goes off the deep end; then just leave that Church!) -------------------------------------------------- You also said........ “In today's rock-n-roll churches they seem to have it backward. They appeal to the goats with concerts and worldliness in the hopes that they will come in and get saved (only that they've forgotten the gospel themselves!) but doing such draws them further and further away from Christ and those that are truly saved have a hard time growing because of the shallowness and heresies in the preaching.” This Church(my Church), is traditional in it’s music and is KJB, but I feel, it’s leadership has a problem with the idea that somehow the Church needs to “always be try something new”, in order to be relevant. Also I keep having to remind myself, God hasn’t called be to “build a big Church” but to simply be obedient to Him, in my leadership of His Church. (Although it has been a few months since I had my own Church, I know that in God’s timing, He will open the door for anther pulpit. And when He does, I don’t want to fall into the traps I am seeing in this Church.) See you later
  15. For a while now, I have been attending a Church(IFB), while I am waiting for the Lord to open a door for my next pastorate; And although(for the most part), I very much enjoy the opportunity to be “preached to”, I am not on the “exact same page” as my pastor. This can be somewhat expected, because I have never found “two Baptist” that totally agree 100%. Anyway, recently the LORD reminded me, not to loose sight of “the main thrust of ministry”; This reminder was needed because all I have been hearing, is “soul winning, soul winning, soul winning”. Now, although I do tell people about Jesus and about their need for a Born Again experience and “sometimes” people respond affirmatively and trust Christ as their Savior, this is not, the main thrust of ministry! Oh, by the way, the main thrust of ministry(as I see it in the Scriptures), is to minister to professing Christians, in helping them to draw closer to the LORD! Ephesians 4:11-12 V.11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; V.12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: I see this theme repeated throughout the entire Bible. ------------------------ I am an IFB pastor, but the Lord has not led me down the same path that most IFB pastors, seem to be taking.

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