Jump to content

Donald

Members
  • Posts

    197
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    3

Posts posted by Donald

  1. Hello Pastorj
    That is a good question.
    I have found myself gravitating to that word over the years(about 30 years), when I have encountered brothers or sister in Christ, who are “teaching” things, that are not found in the Bible.

    Also, the more I studied the Word of God, the more I became convinced, that this was more than just a “difference of opinion”, but indeed it was a big problem.

    Not only does it bring real harm to the legalist, but also hurts those he ministers to, by bringing them into a kind of bondage.
    ------------------------
    I used to have the “bad habit”, of asking different pastors or missionaries that I encountered, to “define legalism” for me?

    This ended, the day that a missionary responded to my question, with....
       “A legalist us someone, who has more standards than I do!”

    It seems that “majoring on standards”, can become dangerous also.

     


  2. This message, offers an answer, to “the problem of legalism”.

    ➀ First, before you stop reading, telling yourself, .....
      “I am not a legalist, I just have more standards than he does!”
    You had better make sure, that your “standards”, are based clearly on sound Doctrine.  Because if they are not, than you have a big problem.

    ➁ Two reasons, “legalism” is a problem, that needs to be fixed...

      (A) It effects your worship...
    “Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
    teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.” (Mark 7:7)

    If we find ourselves, teaching “Doctrines”, that are not spelled out in the Word of God,
    than Jesus says, that this will make our worship of Him “a waste of time”!
    He wants us to worship him, “in Spirit and in truth”!  And that requires that we minister “God’s Word” to others, not “our opinion”!

      (B) Also, legalism stunts our Spiritual growth....
    (Romans 14:1-6)
    V.1 ¶ Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
    V.2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    V.3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    V.4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
    V.5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    V.6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

    A familiar passage, that gives us two examples of “legalism”.  And in this passage, we see that the legalist is regarded as being “weak”.  This is a “weakness in the faith”.

    Notice, in the rest of this passage, we are not told to do anything to try and bring this brother to the error of his ways.  Because this might place a stumbling block before him.
    But, we are not dissuaded, from using God’s Word, to educate our brothers and sisters in the deeper areas of God’s Word.

    ➂ The answer to this problem....
    “But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” (Hebrews 5:14)


    Lets take a closer look at this verse...
    ------------------------
    “But strong meat”
     This is not talking about food.  This is talking about the deeper parts of the Bible.
                                                                                         
    There are some parts of almost every verse in the Bible, that have a “deeper meaning”, that is hidden from young Christians or the casual reader.  (Proverbs 25:2)
    ------------------------
     “belongeth”
    The LORD is the one, who determines how deeply we understand the Bible, at any given point in our walk with Him.  Here we learn that when He gives us this understanding, it “belongs” to us.
    This means(for one thing), that we should learn to keep things the Lord shows us, to ourselves, until He tells us when and how to share them.  (Proverbs 29:11)
    ------------------------
     “to them that are of full age,”
    Each of us have two ages.  Our actual age, from the day we were born.  
    And our Spiritual age, that is not determined by time, but by our commitment to the Lord and to His Word.
    At different points in our Spiritual lives, the Lord decides what He wants us to know.
    But, being “Spiritually mature”, doesn’t depend upon what you “know”, but upon what you “understand”.
    ------------------------
     [even] “those who by reason of use”
    This is an instruction, to “use” something!
    So now, we are talking about the subject of “receiving understanding” from the LORD.
    And the mysterious way, this is accomplished.  I said “mysterious”, because this was a complete mystery to me, until the day the Lord revealed it to me.

    For all the untold hundreds of times I had studied through Hebrews and never saw this truth, makes this mysterious, to me.
    ------------------------
     “have their senses exercised”
    So the other shoe drops.  What it is that we are to “use”, in order to gain understanding from the LORD.  Our “senses”.  All of them.

    As mature Christians, we are to be brave and not be afraid, of “exposing ourselves to things”, that we might be telling ourselves are “wrong”: Even though God’s Word has nothing to say about it.

    This is learning to be sensitive to the “leading of the Holy Spirit”, who will quickly let us know, if we are going in a direction He does not want us to go in.

    I am not talking about any form of lasciviousness.  What I am talking about is a quest, to learn God’s will for our lives.  So that He can reward us, with deeper understanding of His Word and His Will and Who He is.
    ------------------------
     “to discern both good and evil.”
    The Lord wants us to learn to “discern”, what is Good and Evil, not based upon what the latest hot preacher, has to say about it.  But what God has to say about it!

    Also, each of us having “different” weaknesses, will compile differing lists, of what are good and evil, for us.

     

  3. What the LORD asserts in Psalms 119 (as well as all over God's Word), is that He has "given us", His Word, so that we can know the TRUTH about Him and how to know Him better.

    THE "workings" of this marvellous interaction, between "a believer & God's Word", goes beyond the printed words on a page. Because "we have the actual author of the original autographs", in our hearts. And as we STUDY God's Word, the Holy Spirit reveals the TRUTH to us, at the Spiritual level that we are at.

    Therefore, as we STUDY God's Word DEEPER,
    (1)by Simply meditating on the words in our Bibles, or
    (2)going even deeper, by comparing what the original languages have to say, and revealing all the wrangling that has taken place, in order for is to have God's Word in our language...

    ....What is happening goes beyond, questioning God's ability to preserve his word for us.

     

  4. I heard someone say this years ago,
    and it is still just as truthful today, as it was then.
    "The Bible that I hold in my hand, is God's infallible word."

     

    Now, it is not hard to find scriptural support for this statement.
    Just choose any of the verses in Psalms 119.

     

  5. This thread is going to be about, “Growing in the faith”:
    And the ways the Bible describes this growth!

    One way “Spiritual Growth” is described in the Bible, is with food....
    Can you eat.... MILK or BREAD or STRONG MEAT!

    And with this in mind......  Notice what Hebrews 5:14 has to say....
    “But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
    ------------------------
    As you can see, “Growing in the faith”, can be done by “exercising our senses”!
    Those things you “see”, “hear”, “taste” or “touch”...... “to discern both good and evil.”

    In other words: Allow yourself to EXPERIENCE some questionable things:
    (And allow God’s Holy Spirit, to let you know what is good and what is evil:)
       -In stead of just following somebodies opinion!-
    --------------------------------------------------
    NOTE: One reason you don’t hear too much about this, is because of God’s warning in
    Romans 14:, about being careful not to.... “put a stumblingblock” in your brothers way.

    For instance: If a fellow Christian, thinks that....
                                                     “it is wrong to sleep on the left side of the bed:”
    Than we should be careful..... not to do this in front of them!
    (Because....  “if they think it is sin”..... “it is sin, to them”!)

    But.... any Christian who STUDIES Romans 14:... Can GROW out of this foolishness!
    --------------------------------------------------
    AND: A big reason this subject needs to be addressed........
        is because of the Lord’s warnings in Mark 7:7 ....  et.al.
    “Howbeit in vain do they worship me,
     teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.”

    ------------------------
    It is very dangerous, to make “an opinion someone has”, a DOCTRINE you teach!
      (It will make your worship of the LORD, an “empty practice of religion”!)
    And you won’t grow in the Faith!

     

  6. It has been a long time....

    But you asked a good question.
    The answer to this question, has to do with the “intent” of the person printing that Bible.

    What I mean is “a typo”, is a “mistake” that is not intentionally put their by the publisher.  Therefore, you can have small typos and large typos.

    Here is an example of a mid-sized typo........

    (Joshua 19:2)
    “And they had in their inheritance Beersheba, and Sheba, and Moladah,”

    Half of my King James Bibles say, “Beersheba, and Sheba, and Moladah,”
    and the other half say.... “Beersheba, or Sheba, and Moladah,”

    Now since Beersheba and Sheba are the same city, than the former is a “typo”.

    This is further established four verses later in.....
    (Joshua 19:6)
    “And Bethlebaoth, and Sharuhen; thirteen cities and their villages:”

    Counting the cities from verse 2 through verse 6, comes to 13, when verse 2 is printed right.
    ------------------------
    A little more, on what I mean by the “intent” of the publisher.

    Second Timothy chapter 3, is all about the “last days” and how wicked people are going to be.
    In the last 5 verses of this chapter, we have a wonderful example of an “evil intent” and how we can keep our "intent" right.
    The first of these 5 verses says.......
    (2 Timothy 3:13)
    “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”

    These evil men and seducers, will include men like “Westcot & Hort”, etc
    (Respected scholars, who hated any Bible, that allows regular people to study God’s Word and takes "scholars", out of the loop.)

    What is interesting about this passage, are the last two verses.........
    (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
    V.16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    V.17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    ------------------------
    It is almost as if, the LORD knew the kind of attacks that were going to be launched against the Bible, in these last days; And reminded all of us about “Verbal Inspiration”.

    Thanks for the question.

     

  7. Fake news in a blinded world:

    About 20 years ago(during my daily study), I found a verse that answered a question that I had about the future.........
    “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:”
    (2 Thessalonians 2:11)

    After thoroughly studying the context, realized that in this verse, God explains how the entire world is going to follow the anti-Christ during the tribulation.
    Every adult individual, that had rejected the Gospel at the moment of the rapture of the Church, will be given a “strong delusion”, to believe the anti-Christ and will follow him, in his war against Christ.
    ------------------------
    Well, the other day, the Lord gave me a deeper understanding of this truth(kind of like what happened to Daniel 9:1-ff).  This same truth applies to today, as we see the entire world “actually believing” the lies that has become today’s media.
    An explanation as to why the wicked of today, are so blinded to the truth, is because of their rejection of Christ and the Bible.

    For years I only saw this as pertaining to those people who were left behind at the rapture. But as I studied the context of this passage once again, I found this verse....
    “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
    (2 Thessalonians 2:3)

    What we see here, is a result of the "great falling away":
    The whole world being blinded, to all "truth".

     

  8. Hello, 1Timothy1 15

    Here are my 2 cents...

    Yes, I think you can apply it!

    I also apply what verse 20 has to say....
    “....when ye do well, and suffer [for it], ye take it patiently....”

    The way I see it, is in any circumstance under the sun, if you(we), are doing the right thing and suffering, but take that suffering patiently and keep doing right, than God will wonderfully bless us!  (He is me!)

    Have a great day

  9. But..... my hopes for a new English translation(that I can trust as much as I do the KJB), are dampened, when I am reminded of 2 Timothy 3:13
    "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."

    It would be nice, if I could see a hopeful future for my grandchildren in this world; But unless I am misinterpreting, this and other passages of Scripture, the Earthly future of the Church, does not look bright!

    Note: If anyone can correct this view, PLEASE do so.

     

  10. Hello again Jordan Kurecki

    You asked.....
     So you are saying that if a Christian has a translation that has mistranslations, is missing verses, etc that it's good that they believe that it is perfect and without any error?
    So are you saying it's good for someone to believe something even if it isn't true? How is that good?
    And what do you mean "less perfect" that's two adjectives that contradict each other, an oxymoron if you would.
     
    ------------------------
    You will notice, that I prefaced this with an acknowledgment that “this is not a perfect world”, so things won’t always be the way we want them to be.

    For instance, there are lots of languages that have no Bible at all and many other languages that may only have the book of John or Romans translated.  Therefore one of the things that I am saying, is that these people are better off having a single book, rather than no Bible at all.  

    As for those that may be reading a bad translation, like the NIV, etc
    The circumstance by which these Bibles are “good” for these people, is when these individuals, BELIEVE God’s Word to be PERFECT!  Believing that God preserved His Word, is GOOD.

    The rest of the story(with these people), is the “doctrine of light”: The Doctrine taught all over the Bible, that “if a person uses the light God gives them, than He will give them more light”!  I trust, that our Sovereign creator, is able to correct any wrong conclusions that these bad translations, may give a believer: If that believer is truly searching for the understanding.
    ------------------------
    Also you asked...
    “what do you mean less perfect"

    It’s kind of like the “mustered seed”: If a person has a Bible that is 75% accurate(like the NIV), than God can use the few verses that are correct in that version, to minister to that believer. Bringing them to the understanding, that the Bible is a Supernatural book, that no man is qualified to correct or update. Until they come to this understanding, they may continue to worship at their Pentecostal or their Methodist Church.

    See you later

     

  11. Good morning Jordan Kurecki

    I also appreciate your response.  I see the importance of doing a through study of God’s Word(in it’s original languages), and I frequently turn to my old Strong’s concordance to see the true definitions of the Words of Scripture.

    But..... I remember all the years I successfully studied the Bible, before I even knew about Strong’s concordance.  At which point, I am reminded of 1 John 2:27
    "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

    The LORD has seen fit, to make His Word totally accessible to every believer(by way of His indwelling Holy Spirit), Regardless of there higher education or knowledge of the original languages.  For sure, a better understanding of the words of the Bible in it’s original language, if helpful and useful; But it is not necessary.

    At this point, I am also reminded of 1 Corinthians 1:27.

    Have a great day

     

  12. Hello Jordan Kurecki

    You asked.....
    So when you say it’s vitally for every Christian. Do you mean English speakers? What about the foreign language speakers who’s only bibles are missing verses like 1 John 5:7?

    This is a good question, (Or set of questions).

    First of all, I don’t believe in “double inspiration”, therefore the KJB, is a perfect Bible for English speaking people.

    But what I am talking about is “what people believe” about their Bibles(of any language).  It is not a perfect world, so we can’t eliminate all those NIV’s etc. that are out there.  But any BELIEVER, who uses even one of these Bibles, is much better off if they BELIEVE their Bible to be perfect.

    The problem is, all of us are being taught, that “no Bible is perfect”!  Even though some Bibles are “less perfect” than others, a Christian is harmed, by being told that they can’t trust God’s Word.

    Have a good night.

     

  13. It is vitally important, that every Christian believes that the Bible that they hold in their hands is PERFECT.  But this is something that Satan just will not sit still for.

    Therefore, lets establish what makes a Bible IMPERFECT!

    I will start,
    First of all, “typos don’t count”!  Half of the KJBs I own, have typos, but they are still perfect, because they don’t stop me searching “that which is Spiritual”(1 Cor. 2:13), and finding the truth.

    What does count, in making a Bible imperfect, are those Bibles that have had verses or passages changed or removed, by some scholar: Who feels he has the authority to correct God’s Word.

    I am open, for more suggestions.

     

  14. A recent thread started here, reminded me of the fierce attacks that I have faced on other parts of the internet, over the subject of the infallibility of the KJB.  I choose the word “infallible”, because it means “incapable of error”; And that just about settles the whole issue of God's Word.

    I recently recalled one of these fierce arguments(discussions) that was taking place, between me and all the doubters that always came out of the woodwork, on such occasions where I had taken a stand for the preservation God’s Word; And they were using the argument that “they must be right”, because “ all the contemporary Biblical scholarship”, agreed with their position!  As if to say, that this settled it.

    Then I pointed out to them, that “these days, scholars can not be trusted”!  Because the Bible says....
    “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” (2 Timothy 3:13)
    Pointing out, that as time passes, everything that “man says or thinks", will become less and less dependable.

    But recently, I came back by this verse, and discovered that it pertained to this issue, more directly than I had realized, because if it’s context.  It is just 3 verses away from....
    (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
    V.16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    V.17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Sure enough, the Lord warns us about “evil men deceiving us”, in the same breath that He assures us, that His Word is PERFECT!

    We should all realize, that this is a subject, that is worthy of heated discussion.

     

  15. Good morning Brother Stafford

    This is the Spiritual Darkness that is crushing this world(even those who profess to know Christ).  When I read that “your heart sank”, I thought of the words....
    “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.” (John 14:1)

    This happens to all of us: It happened to me a few years ago on another site, while discussing 1John 5:7, with “John of Japan”(someone who claimed to be the grandson of John R Rice), who told me that he had personally spoken to someone who had actually seen the GK.  copies of 1John, that are being stored somewhere; And that he was convinced that the KJV's record of 1John 5:7, is wrong!!!

    This took all the wind out of my sails and I had to leave that site, once and for all.
    But praise the Lord, He restored my faith.

    As we find in 2 Peter 1:, it doesn’t matter if we hear “God’s Voice Himself, speaking from heaven, telling us that the Bible is wrong..” We have a more sure word of prophecy, in the Bible that we hold in our hands, than anywhere else.

    Keep on trusting God’s Word over ANYTHING!

     

  16. But this continues....
    “For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:” (Romans 7:22)

    This is what it means to be “born again”!
    We have been changed on the inside, to the point that WE DO NOT WANT TO SIN.

    Therefore, “IF” a Christian, asks the LORD to help him to “hate sin, as much as He does”, and if God answers that prayer, than..... That Christian can repent to the point, where he “has no unconfessed sin in his life”!

    This is not SINLESS PERFECTION!  As I said above, we are all sinners and will always be sinners, as long as we are in this body!
    But, “IF” we quickly repent of every sin, that God reveals to us, praise the Lord we can be 100% right with God!
    ------------------------
    OH, by the way, this big “IF”, is the same if that is in 2 Chronicles 7:14....
    “IF” my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”

     

  17. I tell people all the time, that “I am a dirt rotten sinner and I deserve to go to hell, but I am not going to hell, because Jesus has paid my sin dept!”

    But Jesus said...,
    “If thy whole body therefore [be] full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.” (Luke 11:36)

    When I talk about being “100% right with God”, I am talking about “having no unconfessed sin in my life”.
    For sure, the Bible says that none of us can ever be “sin free” in this life....
    “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8).
    But, the state of “having no unconfessed sin”, is one where we have repented of every “known sin” in our life and at that moment in time, we are “100% right with God”!  Even though we still have sin in our life, the LORD had not revealed it to us yet!

    Our mission, if we choose to accept it(and it is not impossible), is to keep dealing with our sin, day by day, as the Lord revels them to us, so that we can maintain a life filled with light.

    For sure, we will still have sin in our life(that we don’t know about), but when God reveals it to us, then we can deal with it!

    --------------------------------------------------

    With all that said, the point of my OP, is I know individuals who are saved, but appear to not be dealing with their sin!  YET THE LORD IS STILL BLESSING THEM WITH AN APPARENT CLOSE WALK WITH HIM!?!?
    Therefore my OP talks of my concern about my own closeness to the LORD:
    That is, “If the Lord is going to continue to speak to me and answer my prayers and bless me, even if I am in disobedience, than HOW CAN I BE AWARE OF MY OWN SIN?”  I would prefer, that the LORD drop a ton of bricks on my head, to get my attention!

    Then, I realized the answer!
    The answer lies in “GOD MERCY”!
    These other people, may know full well about the sin in their lives and choosing to overlook them: While our loving merciful heavenly Father, continues to bless them.

    I need to mind my own business and stop concerning myself with the sins, that other people seem to be getting away with.

     

  18. Right after posting this OP, I remembered about “grieving the Holy Spirit”: There are some sins, that will cause the Lord to stop speaking to you.....
    “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” (Ephesians 4:30)

    And there are some sins, that will stop the Lord from hearing your prayer....
    “If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:” (Psalms 66:18)

     

  19. I was reminded this morning, of how rare it is, to be totally right with God; Because as a committed Christian, the Lord may continue to “daily” speak to your heart, with instructions and directions, even if you have things wrong in your life.

    I realized this as I was praying for a fellow Christian, who is in clear disobedience to the Lord in some areas of their life; But at the same time, I am convinced they are receiving instructions and guidance from the LORD.

    This caused me to be very concerned, about my own walk with the LORD.  Because, maybe I have some clear disobedience in my life, but I am unaware of it, because I am so busy following God’s daily instructions in the ministry, that I have stopped examining myself.

    Then I must consider, that this person that I am talking about, is in almost constant pain from one ailment or another.  And as soon as one painful condition clears up, another one popes up.  For sure, this PAIN, could be the Lord, trying to get their attention.  While in my case, I live almost a “pain free” life(PRAISE THE LORD).  And the moments that I ever do experience pain, I QUICKLY go to the Lord and ask Him to deliver me from it and He seems to always quickly touch and heal my body.

    Note: This was originally a personal note I was leaving for myself, but after reading it over a few times, I realized that it should be shared here; Because maybe I am missing something.

     

  20. Thank you very much Bro. Garry, for reposting your old post.  For sure, I have not arrived yet and have a lot to learn. In the same way that although I have been preaching for about 32 years or so, but it has only been for the last 7 years or so, that I have been introduced to the concept of “principals”.
      For all these years, my understanding of “God’s instructions to me” has come in the form of “Bible Doctrine”; and about 25 years or so ago, when I discovered Mark 7:7 “Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.” and clearly saw the DANGER of man-made-doctrines, I became even more “set”, in the plan, of only allowing God’s Word, guide me.
    Now, this view may have come, because I was not raised in a Christian home; And never set foot into a Christian Church, until after I was saved and needed to follow the Lord in Believers baptism.
    For the last 7 years or so, I have been exposed to some new things in the Christian IFB Church, that I am attending; Including the stressing of “principals” and more “topical preaching”, than I have ever heard.  (I always found expository preaching best).  I may have to be weaned off of “Doctrine”, in the same way.

    Have a great day

    Donald

     

  21.  

    It is not hard to find the Bible repeatedly warning us about, “self deception”; And our flesh is so deceitful and desperately wicked, that we can and are often self deceived, even when we are “trying to do right”.  It happens all the time.  Our only hope for deliverance from self deception is Hebrews 4:12.

    Well one of the chief ways that this happens with IFB’s, is in the are of “standards”.  I once asked a missionary to define “legalism” for me.  His response was, “A legalist is someone who has more standards than I do.”  His answer demonstrates just how dangerous standards can be.

    Some of you, may not know the kinds of DANGERS, I am talking about.  But here is a big one.  “When a Christian starts lifting up standards, to guide his behavior, he stops listening to the Holy Spirit!”  In reality, the LORD wants us to be “led by the Spirit”, every waking moment of the day.  But when we start following standards(our own or someone elses), than we allow those STANDARDS, to overrule the Spirit’s leadership.

    It is also a waste of time, to try and nail someone down to using strictly “Biblical standards”; Because “all standards” are man-made, because they are all based upon our present interpretation of what the Bible says.  This is true, unless you want to call those things that we are dogmatic about, “standards”.  Things like "the infallibility of God’s Word", should not be called a “standard”, because man’s opinion, has NOTHING to do with it.

     

  22. Hello pastor Scott
    When I read the words...."Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.", I see the result of when a Christian’s sound Doctrinal view is defended using Scripture, his countenance is sharpened, like in Isaiah 50:7 “For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.”   As I faced other Christians, in defense of God’s Word, I came away with a sharpened countenance and set my chin like a flint, unaffected by the fact that the vast majority of Christendom holds an opposing opinion. Your interpretation of the word countenance may differ from mine, but we may be looking at two sides of the same coin.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Next you said,
    “Second, the verse does not speak about being sharpened by one's OPPONENT, but about sharpening the countenance of one's FRIEND.  As such, if the relationship of Biblical friendship does not actually exist between two individuals, then the principle of this verse does not actually apply in that case.”

    The people that I made it clear were talking to each other are fellow Christians; Among Christians, we should not have any OPPONENTS, even those who see things(Doctrine), from another point of view.  As for the fact that a “grinding wheel” in not mentioned in Pro.27:17, it doesn’t have to, because God’s Word is the stone that we all use to make our point.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Then you said.........
    Furthermore, God's Holy Word does present doctrinal principles concerning the matter of righteous friendship, such that we are to pursue after certain types of individuals as our friends and to separate from certain other types of individuals as our friends.

    As to the “friend” talked about in Proverbs, is referring to “righteous friendship”, I am not sure.  I have some friends in Church, that I would consider righteous friends, but there are other Brothers in Church, that I might just call them friends.  But a passage over in 2 Timothy, seems to be talking about the friends I am talking about.  "V.20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.  V.21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, [and] prepared unto every good work."
    The “great house” is the local Church, and in it are some Christians(within our local Church), that are less  honorable than others and we are told to “purge ourselves from them”.  The kind of plain pointed Biblical discussion, that I propose Proverbs 27:17 is talking about, could very well be used, to “purge” them.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Lastly you said.......
    “Indeed, I consider certain individuals on this forum as Biblical friends.  Even so, it would be possible, according to the principle of Proverbs 27:17, for me to sharpen their countenance and for them to sharpen my countenance.  However, in the past I was a member of a forum wherein I was in a doctrinal minority on various significant doctrines.  On that forum I had very few actual friends.  The rest were simply doctrinal opponents.  Although my doctrinal positioning was certainly "sharpened" through my "battles" on that sight, my COUNTENANCE most certainly was NOT sharpened, especially not by my doctrinal opponents.”

    With this paragraph, I better understand your point.  It comes down to “who’s countenance” we are talking about.  For instance, the very first time we find this word in the Bible, it was talking about the face of an unsaved killer Genesis 4:6.  When I read Proverbs 27:17, I picture a Christian, getting to the bottom Biblical truth, to the point that it makes them more sure of the Biblical ground they are standing on, like in Ezekiel 3:9 “As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.”
    --------------------------------------------------
    Sure enough, I may have gone a little too far in linking the art of sharpening an edge, with this verse in Proverbs.  But extending this example out, shows the truly bad results of only giving our ear to those who agree with us.  We already have our flesh, we don’t need any other “yes men”.  I come here for responses just like yours, so please if you find any “T” that I have not crossed or “I” that I have not dotted, than please let me know.

    Have a great day

     

  • Member Statistics

    6,088
    Total Members
    2,124
    Most Online
    shlomo
    Newest Member
    shlomo
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...