20JC12

Well, let's see. We have a country where it's been fashionable to "come out of the closet" and proudly proclaim that you're "gay" for a few decades now.  But just 5 decades ago, when I was learning to read,  Janet, Mark and Spot had a "gay" old time and it meant they were "happy". Now, Girls are going out, hunting bears with bows and arrows, fighting in combat and boys are now dainty little sissies. We DISHONOUR and emasculate our men, deeming them worthless buffoons, take away the things associated with manhood and give them to the women. How did we get here? Little baby steps. For one thing, we gave them our clothes. Women began dressing like men a loooong time ago and now the men have relented, we have little left.  Bruce Jenner, the once mighty athlete is now "Kaitlin Jenner" wearing a dress..  Y'all do what you want, as for me and my house, my wife and daughter wear dresses and and are not the least bit interested in deer hunting. 

The accumulation of things or idols made with hands is surely the False religion of Today, or lets say the End Times.
For as in previous generations, the ungodly and even the seemingly godly have always been into the HERE and NOW rather than the ETERNAL possessions of spiritual values, as with humility, courage, wisdom, love etc etc...
The religion of the vast majority whether in the West or the East is MATERIALISM and they dedicate their lives to gathering it so they can either die with it or pass it on theoretically to their families. Sometimes they blatantly are cargo cults, sometimes just preaching ' prosperity is godliness doctrines', or sometimes just talking among themselves that 'they are so blessed for all their things and conditions.' And not like the poor and despised because obviously they say they must be sinners for being born in such wretched countries or being placed in such horrible conditions and poverty.
They align themselves with a religion that justifies their materialistic goals and align themselves with a nationality grouping that further allows them without limit to just accumulate wealth, via devious means such as *** or *** or *****. Hence they can do so without hesitation and with a zeal of supposed religious obediance.
 
Just my opinion from scriptures (including Revelation) and from real life and current events..
 
Or is godliness gain and a proof of godliness in all cases ?
 
IHS
 
David

​​As a Mormon I would agree with this. You'd do far better showing up at their door then you would showing up at their church. You won't get anywhere with it at the church. I've seen people try and trust me it goes nowhere.

i read a book once by a person who left the mormon church and converted to Baptist and got saved.. that person was threatened.. and ended up leaving the area... please don't go and talk your friend out of going... they have a way of sucking people in and not letting them go.. another friend who is a Christian had 2 mormon men come to her door and she let them in, listenede to what they had to say then said i listened to you now please listen to me. she took them thru the plan of salvation and the one called himself an elder and vowed to the mormon church and sat they and cried like a baby because he couldn't break his vow to that church.. i've often wondered if he ever got saved and left that church

​I felt led of God to share this with you, it's something I wrote a while back:
 
Does Jesus Know You?
Matthew 7:21-23  Not every one that saith unto me, [Jesus] Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name donemany wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
In this passage, there are people standing before Jesus, who claim to know him (Lord, Lord). They point to the religious good works they do, (prophesied, cast out devils, wonderful works), and claim the name of Christ (in thy name). But Jesus says to them “I NEVER KNEW YOU” and the people in this passage are then going to be cast away into eternal damnation. The point of this passage is to show that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian, is going to have eternal life. You might claim to know him, but the question is, does Jesus know you?
2 Corinthians 13:5  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith;
We should examine ourselves according to the bible, to make sure that we are in the faith and that Jesus knows us. Allow me to show you what the bible says about having eternal life:
The 1st thing you must know is that you are a sinner.
Romans 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Everyone has sinned before. For example some of the Ten Commandments will illustrate this: how many lies have you told in your life? How many times have you stolen things (even small things)? Hopefully you have never murdered anyone, but the bible says that God sees hatred in the heart as murder; how many times have you hated someone? Hopefully you’ve never committed adultery, but Jesus said if you look on someone and have lust in your heart, you commit adultery in your heart; how many times have you done that? These are only four of the ten, but the point is that you are a sinner and so am I.
The 2nd thing you must realize is the penalty for sin:
Romans 6:23a  For the wages of sin is death;
Ezekiel 18:4  Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Revelation 20:11-15  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We see here that the wages of sin is spiritual death, and the soul that sins will die spiritual death. Then we see what’s called the great white throne judgment where sinners will be judged according to the sins they have committed (“according to their works”).
The 3rd thing you must realize is that being religious or doing good works cannot take away your sin.
Ephesians 2:8-9  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Isaiah 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Good works like Baptism, Church Membership, keeping the commandments, etc. cannot save us and take away our sins, because our righteousness (our good works) are like filthy rags in God’s sight!
4th you must realize that Jesus paid the penalty for you sin:
John 4:9-10  In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
God loves us, so he sent Jesus to die on the cross and he became the propitiation (the satisfactory payment to appease God’s wrath) for our sins.
5th you must personally receive Jesus Christ as your savior:
John 1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Now, Let’s see what the Bible says is the way we receive Jesus:
John 6:40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
We must believe on Jesus. In today’s world, believing in God means believing he exists, but this is not what it means to believe on Jesus in the bible. To believe in someone means to trust their abilities or their character, For example, If I said I believe in you to pick me up from school, it would mean I have faith in your abilities. In the same way, we must depend on or have faith or believe in Jesus and his ability to save us; this is another reason why good works or being religious cannot save us—we must have faith in Jesus’ ability and not our own. If you are depending upon your own goodness to save you, then by definition you are not believing on Jesus!
Nahum 1:7  The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
John 3:16-18  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 
John 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. 
John 6:40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 
John 6:47  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 
John 10:7-9  Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.  All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture
John 11:25-26  Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 
 You must make a PERSONAL decision to trust in Christ today. The only way you will not be one of those who Jesus says he never knew, is if you make the personal, one-time decision to receive Christ. This is called “repentance unto life” in the bible. Have you done this? I am not asking if you were baptized, were confirmed, are a member of a church, have spoken in tongues, have had a religious experience, if you try to be good, or if you are a good Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witness, Baptist, Methodist, Buddhist, etc. I am asking if you have personally received Jesus Christ by repenting of your sin and depending upon Christ to save you. Will you receive Christ today?
Romans 10:9,10,13  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation....For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Today you can pray to God and ask Christ to save you from your sins, tell him you are sorry, ask him to cleanse you from your sins and give you eternal life. Then, and only then, will Jesus know you. 

​You don't have to understand it.  It is God's word, so you just need to believe it.

​Don't be sorry, it's a great, and important question. In short, they have always been the same person and "son" is descriptive of the relationship and essence rather than physical offspring. Consider John 1:1 
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
This one beautifully packaged verse boldly declares that Jesus (the Word) was God. In the Greek it's actually a little more emphatic and a woodenly literal translation would read, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and God was the Word."
Reading on to verse 3 - "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." If we go back to the original Creation account in Genesis 1:1, we see this:
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Every verse after that declares the acts of creation as an action taken specifically by God. Moving forward a little bit to Genesis 1:26 when God created man we find this:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:" So now we have a singular God referring to Himself in the plural, which shows the wonderful truth revealed in John 1.
There are many passages throughout the Bible I could reference for you to show that Jesus claimed to be God and His disciples believed Him to be God, but the above should give you a good starting point.
Regarding your question about Matthew 27:46, there are two things I want to point out. First, Jesus is directly quoting Psalm 22. The second thing is that even though Jesus is God, He is not the same person as the Father. God's three-in-oneness is a divinely complicated concept that we'll always have a little trouble finding the right words for; but the essential truth that the Bible teaches is the God the Father is God, God the Son (Jesus) is God, and God the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is God but the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. They are three distinct persons existing in a single entity. God is the perfectly complete being who has always had love and fellowship within Himself and we, being made in His image, are a reflection of that which is why we have the innate need to relate with others.
The critical thing to understand though, is that Jesus is God and that is the only reason He had any power to save us from our sin. Only an infinite God could pay for the infinite amount of sin of humanity. Only a sinless Jesus could have atoned for the sins of others, and only God is sinless.

The Turkey of today isn't the same Turkey which for a time leaned West. Turkey today has dropped their secular approach in favor of a pro-Islamic approach. Turkey sees herself as the destined nation to establish and lead an Islamic Caliphate.
The goal of Islam, has been and always will be, the complete Islamification of the world. In their view, Islam must over come Christians, Jews and all other religions. They must eradicate all non-Muslim governments and establish Islam as the only religion and Islamic law as the only acceptable form of rule.
Some have pointed out that the capital of Turkey is directly north of Jerusalem and believe Turkey (not Russia, as some think) will be the nation from the North which comes against Israel/Jerusalem.
While Western leaders have no common religion or worldview, and they discount the past as meaningless; Muslims have a clear and purposeful uniting religion and worldview and for them the past is as much a part of the present as today.

Something to consider is that in the beginnings of Christianity pretty much EVERY person who was saved was in your situation.
When a Jew got saved, they were totally forsaken by their family and their community, including often being turned out of their house, losing their job, and being rejected by their friends.
In Acts 2 we see the church there at Jerusalem helping each other in these ways.
But most of all:
Heb 4:15
He knows what we are going through, even when nobody else does.

​You will also find many more new friends in Jesus.

You many lose friends or family when you chose to follow the real Jesus of the Bible, but you will gain salvation for eternity. Now that you've heard the true gospel you're responsible for your actions to hearing it. I'm praying for you. Call and have the pastor visit or you visit him soon. The devil is pulling you towards Mormonism but the Holy Spirit is stirring your heart with the truth! Read the new testament, Mathew, Mark, Luke or John. 

It's not at all strange, and I truly do understand where you're coming from. I have a man in the Bible study class that I teach who is from a Mormon family. We talk about the challenges of witnessing to them often. Truly, it's a common theme I've notice about pretty much every other faith from Islam to Jehovah's Witness to Catholicism. A faith lived out intentionally defines a person's personal and social life, and completely changing that is incredibly difficult.
One thing you have to keep in mind about a life lived following the real Jesus Christ: it's going to be hard leaving the old life behind, but it's going to be worth it. Jesus knew that when people chose to follow Him it would cause anxiety among friends and family:
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against the mother in law." (Luke 12:-51-53)
But He also promised even greater reward:
"Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, house, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life." (Mark 10:28-30)
The truth is, following Jesus naturally sets you at odds with your previous faith. That doesn't mean you have to stop loving them or seeing them altogether; but it does mean you are set on two completely different paths: one toward heaven and the other toward hell. What should drive you is to lovingly win them over to the path leading to heaven.
Another thing to consider, is that God expects you to definitively leave the Mormon church:
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for hat fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." (2 Cor 6:14-17)
Here's the thing, you absolutely can't be a part of both faiths because they are set completely against one another and they cannot both be correct. You must make a choice, even though it feels like a hard one. When it really comes down to it, you have to decide whether you love Jesus or your old friends/church family more (Matt 10:37-40). Once you've decided on Jesus, you should embrace the love that you have for those in your former life and go win them to Christ.
 
edit: spelling errors
 

Not long ago I found an IBC online that was near my home which I wrote about it here before. I went to their church a few times and it was amazing. However it wasn't amazing enough to pull me out of my Mormon faith. It's easy for people to say just leave the church because it's complicated. It's hard because you are so tightly tied in to everything with the church. If you leave it's like you've lost your entire family. I suppose no one hear would completely understand and that's OK.
So they a anniversary celebration recently and he kept reaching out asking if I would commit to coming. I really did want to go but my I didn't. I have chronic physical pain and I didn't go. Now the pain wasn't that bad that I couldn't have sat through it all but I couldn't get myself to go. I felt terrible because they are the nicest people I know and I want to support them.
I listened to his preaching from that day and I felt like it was for me. Strange, really it was. Everything he was saying it was as if it was pointed to me. He spoke about how he asked someone to come and they said they would then at the last minute they say they can't. 
I love going to that church however breaking my ties to the Mormon church has proven harder then ever before. I'm riddled with guilt after hearing his sermon online. I feel like I've wronged a friend in the worst way. As if he's trying to do something nice and I just turned away. On the other hand when I see the missionaries or my Mormon friends I feel like I'm in my place... where I belong.
This all must sound all over the place but it was a rough weekend for me. I feel very torn between 2 churches both of which I feel deeply about.
Just wanted to share... 

May I suggest that it is not so much WHO you marry, but HOW you marry? Is there one man (woman) God has prepared to be your life & ministry companion? Marry a fellow believer & your positive approach to marriage will be blessed. In earlier (including Biblical) times marriages were often arranged by families & you found yourself with a life companion who you would then begin to get to know. Youngsters did not have the freedom for courting they have today. 
Marry a fellow believer and you will have your God-given life companion.
In the 50s, when we married, there were plenty of church-based youth groups where you could get to know the other sex in an open situation. At university, where Ann & I met, we were members of the Christian Union. She first noticed me at my baptism. It was about 6 months later, after exams, when we were visiting on behalf of a church, that we paired up. Marriage was 4 years later. Nearly 63 years ago. 

Bible believers have always existed, not Baptists. The mistake is made that Baptists have been around since Pentecost (or some say since John the Baptist) because Baptists generally make up the largest block of bible believing Christians. There may come a day where the Baptist label will not be used any more by bible believing Christians because of apostasy among Baptist churches.

Make sure you know the laws of your state and county. Join one of these homeschooling groups too if you can. There is strength in numbers and when the state comes after you for something usually it helps when you are part of one of the associations.

My brother and his wife homeschooled both their kids. They are now both cops in Roanoke, VA. The younger one did attend college and got his associates degree. It's a rough road to travel sometimes. Expect some people to give you a lot of grief about it at first. Especially any unsaved family members. Try to find some good tutors to help you with the studies that may be beyond your understanding. My brother and his wife did this by hiring a girl who lived across the street that was really good in math. They even got her to go to church with them and I think she eventually got saved.

I'm a little late getting to this thread. This is just a copy and paste of my post in the Questions tab:



Short answer... no. The Protestant movement took place when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Thesis's to the door of the Catholic church in his town in Germany. Thus began the Protestan movement.

Baptists, on the other hand, have been around since the time of the Apostles. They have been known throughout history as Donatists, Paulicians, Anabaptists, and a few others.

What makes the Baptists different from other Protestant churches and the Catholic church, is that they have strictly adhered to Biblical principles since the beginning. The Baptists, in the past, were mercilessly persecuted by both the Catholics and the Protestants because of their beliefs. Several state churches in history actually put death sentences on anyone who got re-baptized. The re-baptism of the person was only done by Baptists in order for the person to be Scripturally baptized.

I don't want to get into an extremely in-depth explanation here, primarily because I don't have my study notes with me! But also because I think I have sufficiently answered your question, if not given you more!

I hope you find this helpful, and please feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

¶ To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David. Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
Ps 5:2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.
Ps 5:3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.
Ps 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
Ps 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Ps 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
Ps 5:7 ¶ But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

And if we go a bit further, David tells us, “Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man,’ Thou being God, 'God will destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.’

Quite strong words. In that day the sinner, unrepented sinner, the lost soul, will not seem to be experiencing love from God, they had their opportunity, yet they rejected the love God offered, & even more so rejected His Son the Savior.

Yet at this time, or until they die, they can have the love of God, yet there is only one way for them to receive it, turn from their wayward ways, repent, & get saved.

Mt 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

By the same token, those that do not hunger and thirst after righteousness will not be blessed: they shall not be filled.

Yes, but how many of us practice loving our enemies?

Are we not in the day that even many Christians says, "Strike them before they strike us?"

Hi everyone. I'm new here so please bear with me.

I am a former Mormon. I was in the lds church for 30 years. Raised in it. I loved it! Leaving was very difficult because, like the missionaries you met, I sincerely believed.

What's important to understand is that there is a mental disconnect between your mouth and the Mormon's brain. I don't mean this to be insulting. But the LDS church uses Christian terms with LDS meanings attached.

Allow me to show you an example from Bruce McKonkies seminal work: MORMON DOCTRINE.

SALVATION BY GRACE
"Since all good things come by the grace of God (that is, by his love and mercay, and condescension), it follows that salvation itself-in all its forms and degrees- is bestowed because of this infinite goodness. However, one of the untrue doctrines found in modern Christendom is the concept that man can gain salvation (meaning in the kingdom of God) by grace alone and without obedience....

Immortality is afree gift and comes without works or righteousness of any sort; all men will come forth in the resurrection because of the atoning sacrifice of Christ....

Salvation in the celestial kingdom of God, however, is not salvation by grace alone. Rather, it is salvation by grace coupled with obedience to the laws and ordinances of the [mormon] gospel....

Immortality comes by grace alone, but those who gain it may find themselves damned in eternity."

(Bruce McKonkie, Mormon Doctrine, paperback copy, 1979 pp670-671)

In LDS theology it's believed men become gods and enter into the celestial kingdom. In this light, the above means people are "damned up" like a dam in a lake. There is no damnation to eternal hell. All people go to some level of heaven (except people like me- apostates).

its essential to understand the LDS understanding of terms when dialoging with LDS missionaries (or any other mormon).