mkrishna
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Posts posted by mkrishna
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On 1/26/2011 8:18:22, John81 said:
Is what's put forth here fairly accurate?
We have several fairly large Christian Churches in our area. They are very popular churches.
Some of the things in the article I had not heard before while others didn't seem to fit with the Christian Church I'm most familiar with.
What do you know of the Christian Church, their beliefs and practices...or anything else?The disciples of Christ and Christian Church separated from each other years ago. The disciples of Christ are liberal, while the Christian church is conservative. The Christian church has doctrines similar to the church of Christ in regards to Baptism, salvation, etc. They believe water baptism is part of the salvation process. Both have their roots in the restoration movement.
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I remember when I was part of the international church of Christ cult in 1997, they kept track of how much each gave. I was a college student then working part-time in the campus library. One day, the one who mentored me came to me and said there was a complaint from the campus minister that I gave different amounts each week. I told him that is because I make different amounts each week. He said I need to be consistent in my giving.
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Also, there are many people who are unsaved who intellectually understand the Gospel. If we apply the Calvinistic logic of spiritually dead, can a dead person understand the Gospel intellectually?
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6 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:
While I'm thankful for Bro. Alan's testimony that he has never used Malachi 3:10 as a proof text for Christian tithing...and his testimony that he agrees that Christians aren't commanded to tithe...such a testimonial is few and far between. At least it is in my area.
In my area (and MANY other areas that I know of), pastors and teachers use any and every "tithing" passage to say that we are to tithe today. Not only that, they pull out God's command to Israel for "firstfruits" as proof that Christians are to tithe on their gross income. Their justification is that God wants your firstfruits. They haven't even studied enough to know that Israel's command for their firstfruits was completely seperate from the command(s) to tithe. God wanted Israel to offer their firstfruits AND their tithes.
Why do we get so upset when someone uses scripture to justify a false doctrine? Such as, Hagee's false doctrine about salvation for the Jews. We get upset about the false doctrine concerning losing salvation. We get upset about SDA's false doctrine about keeping the sabbath and other commands. We get upset about women pastors. We get upset about people who deny the Trinity. We get upset about the prosperity gospel. We get upset about people who promote hyper-grace. We get upset about people who put down the KJV. We get upset about every false doctrine out there (and rightly so)...but tithing gets a pass...even though it's a false doctrine for today's church.
If you want to see whether Christians are supposed to tithe today, it requires a little study...but it's very simple. Look for this...who, what, where, why, and when.
- Who was to tithe?
- What was to be tithed?
- Where were they to tithe?
- Why were they to tithe? (In other words, what were their tithes to be used for?)
- When were they to tithe?
You'll have to read more than just the verse where tithing is mentioned. Such as, Malachi 3:10...you'll need to read the entire book of Malachi to find out who God was saying was robbing him of tithes.
After you have discovered the answers to the who, what, where, why and when of tithing, look to see where God ever changed who, what, where, why, and when. I'll go ahead and give the answer. The who, what, where, why, and when has been changed...but not by God or his word.
Now look to see what the New Testament says about our giving...using the same who, what, where, why, and when. Also, don't be shocked when you realize the answers. Today's church has added a lot to what God's word says and "requires" about New Testament giving.
Now...with all of that said...I also believe that if a person desires to give 10% (or more) of their income, that's wonderful...as long as it comes from THEIR heart instead of a pastor or teacher saying we are supposed to, or God will send the Devourer to get his tithe anyway.
Which brings up another false doctrine often promoted about church members "tithing"...used to scare people into tithing.
God's gonna get his tithe one way or another!
Such as...
- You might end up in the hospital, and you'll have to pay your tithe then!
- Your car might break down, and you'll have to pay your tithe then!
- Your children might get sick, and you'll have to pay your tithe then!
It preaches really good! Except for the fact that God's not getting "your tithe" in such scenarios. The hospital is getting your money. The mechanic or parts store is getting your money. The doctor and pharmacy are getting your money...not God.
Surprisingly, those who make these threats about God will get the tithe don't believe that giving to the needy or missionaries counts as giving to God, they believe the tithe is only for the general fund of the church. In addition to giving to the church, I also give to the needy and missionaries. For the most part, I have NOT practiced the tithe but rather grace giving from my heart, and I have never had any financial problems, and none of these threats have happened to me. I am proof that these threats the Pastors make are not true.
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33 minutes ago, wretched said:
Interesting passages Invicta. Sadly though you pre-text them with this little quote that cannot be found in Scripture anywhere. This is the issue with all false teaching. It is based on a predisposed notion APART from Scripture and then Scripture is twisted around to conform to the predisposed false notion.
You have heard the term cart before the horse. Your adopted idea in this post places the horse in the cart, therefore the cart goes nowhere.
Sorry dude, you are false in this.
Amen. It is not talking about physical death. If we use the same false logic, we should not preach the gospel to the unsaved, since dead men cannot hear either. Dead men cannot sin either.
- No Nicolaitans and Alan
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I do think this is a bit on the extreme side. Not all preachers preach against gays. There are just so many other more important things to preach.
Like truth. If that entails preaching against gays, so be it, but most times when a preacher is street preaching or pulpit preaching they are preaching the scriptures and not only focusing on gays. Or they shouldn't be anyway. They have so much to preach before they should be preaching on particular individual sins.
Condemning lost people should not be our focus, we should be preaching Jesus Christ, and him crucified, to the lost.
God will take care of the sin once he gets into their hearts.
All the disciples died living for the Lord, without defending themselves.
The scriptures are very clear - in 1 Peter 4 -
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.I have seen street preaching often get out of hand and not done properly, that is why I don't prefer that method. Probably talking one on one individually to someone is more effective, by preaching the whole counsel of God but at the same time having the right demeanor.
- Invicta and Genevanpreacher
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It is true that one can put all their time and effort into fleshly pursuits and still be saved but hardly the same thing that is being discussed right now. Where your treasure is (whether time, money or effort) that is where your heart is but those passages are not discussing rejecting Jesus AFTER you got saved.
Even backslidden a Christian will still know who the real God is or they never were born again to begin with. That is the point folks. Some of you folks are interjecting an apple into an orange discussion.
For some reason some don't get it but let me clarify a little: I am not talking about sin. I am talking about repentance and believing the Gospel. If actually accomplished by the Spirit, no one repents from it back to a false religion. No matter how much we want to think so because they are confused or whatever, they are not confused folks, they are lost.
Now, nothing says they cannot be saved later so I recommend you get the matter settled for sure if you are in that boat.
I have known multiple 1000s of saved people (serving and backslidden) and have never run across this kind of silly discussion before.
I agree it is a very silly discussion. God changes those who become saved. Those who say a saved person can turn to a false religion is saying God is not powerful to keep a person in the faith, and are shortchanging God.
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It's not just evangelicals, I know of at least two IFB churches which speak well of the pope and the pastor quotes Mother Teresa in some of his sermons (in a positive way).
While there are some we should have a very good idea of whether they are saved or not, it's not our job to look at every professing Christian and declare our view as to whether we think they are saved or not. Too often we spend time on declaring those in this or that church are or aren't saved; that public figure must be or must not be saved; most in that church in the other country are ______________.....
All the while we spend far too little time tending to our own walk, our families, and those within our own church. If our churches were actual families, as Scripture calls us to be, we would know, for the most part, what's what and who's who. Then we would know who we may be able to help, who may be able to help us; and this in spiritual as well as other matters.
I've seen churches where the pastor and congregation spend most of their time condemning the other Baptist church in town all the while they themselves are falling away and falling apart due to lack of attention.
There are indeed exceedingly more secular Christians in American than born again Christians. The percentage of born again Christians is probably fairly low. Even using the best methods they could come up with to try and separate born again Christians from others, polling and survey groups have a very difficult time getting to the truth. Some still suggest as high as 35% of the population is born again. Unfortunately, many pastors and Christian authors prefer to accept that since about three-fourths of the population identifies as Christian that must mean somewhere near that percentage actually are. It's more likely around the 10% area. So, if Christ calls His people home today America won't suddenly experience massive population loss, there won't be dozens of planes falling from the skies, scores of trains and vehicles crashing. businesses and utilities failing due to massive numbers of workers suddenly missing.
We need to build up ourselves, our families, our churches. We need to take the Gospel to the lost and when someone is born again we need to take them under our wings and disciple them or get them to someone who can do so, we need to get them into our churches or another sound church.
We should spend time in distinguishing who may or may not be saved so we can see if we should focus on evangelizing the particular person or fellowshipping with the person. If someone is lost, I would not want to treat them as a brother.
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The neo evangelical influences are being thoroughly revealed in this thread. I recommend you folks burn those books and get away from their websites on the double quick.
30 years ago is when satan introduced competition among fundamentalists in the form of conversion numbers. Sadly, fundamental churches were exploding (and had been for 20 years) at the time with real conversions so satan used our fleshly need to win at all costs into the mix to stop the flood of revival; and we have been going down hill since.
This is when the partial gospel was introduced in these great Churches. It wasn't the Pastors who introduced the false, hellless gospel it was the good intentioned soulwinners who did once they realized their numbers will now count without bearing their fruit. The dilution has continued every since.
At the same time is when the neo evangelical movement got started and it was satan that invented it with the same watered down hellless gospel. "We invite you to begin your relationship with Jesus today" that is NOT the Gospel.
Fast forward to now when IFBs are so utterly confused over who is saved and who isn't that the isn't number is nonexistent basically.
We have forgotten what fruit that remains means and think anyone who says they are saved are saved. Your neo books say they are but the Bible says they are bastards and not sons. This country is running 1000:1 bastard to son ratio in my estimation thanks to satan and his hellless gospel.
Lets stop wondering if people who show zero interest in baptism, growth, warning their families of condemnation and feel absolutely no conviction over anything are saved. Witness to these folks because they never heard the real deal to begin with. These are not issues of growth, or discipleship or difference speeds and personalities, these are basic Bible doctrines. If the Spirit is present, the above things will follow and at a minimum the desire to grow will be present.
The old timers who refuse to pick up neo trash books are the only ones who still remember what the Bible says it appears.
Confusion on who is saved and not in the evangelical world today is seen in the fact that many so called evangelicals believe the Pope is saved. This wants me to vomit.
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Many people in the fundamentalist easy believism camp who are followers of cult leaders Jack Hyles and Steve Anderson have an agenda and don't like to be told that the so called "Professions" they have had are false. The fact is, they have led millions to hell, and I have a right to be righteously angry about that.
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Regardless whether I am in that asembly or not, I am a member of Christ's Body, the Ekklesia; the Body in which every joint supplieth. They don't want my ministry, that much is obvious. And, at this point, if they would rather walk in, and teach false doctrine, I really don't need theirs as well.
I will remain IFB, as the fundamentals of the Faith are embraced by the IFB more than any other Baptist Church or Protestant Church out there today, to the best of my knowledge. I will continue in my studies until such time that the Lord either opens doors for me to start another Church, (I have pastored two in the past) or He convicts the only IFB assembly in town of their error, or until HIs return for His Bride.
Tell me, Christian, if I were able to travel, and came to your town, knowing my stance on the Biblical tithe, would you want me as a member of your congregation?I am a member of a church where I disagree with their stand on tithe, but believe in giving from your heart, but do not make it a matter of contention. The general qualifications of the church I am a part of is being saved and scripturally baptized.
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Well, i have been IFB for more than two and a half decades, was put out of the only IFB Church (which also happens to be the only church in our town that teaches from the KJV) in our town for teaching truth after seven years of membership there. On disability due to my blindness, so travel is out of the question. Not every island is escapable.
And even if there were an escape from the island, it would only be a matter of time before the inevitable shipwreck. Churches don't like me anymore because of the truth I speak.
I don't know the whole story here, but maybe some people on this board can assist you in starting a church in your location or in helping you move. In the worst case scenario, a suggestion would be to contact a church out of your area, and see if you can be under their authority long distance, and communicate regularly with them by phone and email for accountability. Just my 2 cents.
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Will pray.
Bear in mind, if you weren't saved, you probably wouldn't be concerned about it. However, I have been at that point myself. Just remember back to when you were born again-was it biblical? Are you relying on Jesus and Him alone to save you, by grace through faith? Do you see fruit in your life? In your ministry? Remember, HE is faithful, He will keep that which you've committed unto Him against that day. Also, you might want to separate from the whole 'krishna' thing-no sense in even jokingly associating with a false god.
edited to add: Unless that's your actual name, of course. then no problem.
Thanks for the message. For 16 years in being a Christian, Jesus is the only one I have been trusting in to get me to heaven by grace alone. I have had great times evangelizing and being involved in several ministries. However, even though I have grown in many areas, there are certain besetting sins I can't get rid of. Sometimes, I struggle a lot with anger, on spur of the moment situations. Also, I have an addiction to self gratification, no matter what I have done, I can never seem to get rid of this besetting sin. The thing I am concerned about is not getting victory over certain sins, even though I do care about them, and definitely want to get rid of them.
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Will pray.
Bear in mind, if you weren't saved, you probably wouldn't be concerned about it. However, I have been at that point myself. Just remember back to when you were born again-was it biblical? Are you relying on Jesus and Him alone to save you, by grace through faith? Do you see fruit in your life? In your ministry? Remember, HE is faithful, He will keep that which you've committed unto Him against that day. Also, you might want to separate from the whole 'krishna' thing-no sense in even jokingly associating with a false god.
edited to add: Unless that's your actual name, of course. then no problem.
Yes, Krishna is my last name, simply an Indian name.
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Where in Chicago are you located?
On the north side. I work downtown.
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I usually don't start threads, but I need some serious prayer at this time. I am having a lot of spiritual issues in my life, and am seriously doubting my own salvation as a result, even though I have been a believer for several years. I am in the process of trying to seek proper Biblical counseling. I think I am rock bottom spiritually at this point in my life. Please pray I will get the proper help.
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I once witnessed to some Catholic students who were preparing to become priests, and they kept arguing that other religions can get to heaven, and what about those who have never heard. I kept telling them someone has to hear to become saved, and God will send someone to them if they are willing to receive the truth. They finally asked what if God sends someone, but the one whom God plans to send does not want to go to preach to those who never heard? I finally told them that is a stupid question, and for them to read the Bible for a change to find out the answser. Answer a fool according to his folly.
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what would you do if your church sent out this letter?
(you won't be able to read this on a phone.)
I would run from membership from such a church. No one should know what we give, and giving would be from my heart, not forced.
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One thing to remember about the Laodicean church, is that, their candlestick was still in its place. For all their problems and worldliness, and that Jesus was outside knocking to go it, it was STILL seen as Jesus' church. As such, we need to be very careful in how they are judged. Certainly we need to call out false teachers and false doctrines, but we need to be careful when we seek to call out what churches are false and true, because even Laodicea was in its place before the Lord, shakey though that place may have been.
This is an interesting topic. Is there a reason why God did not tell the true believers in these type of churches in Revelation to leave? Were they to wait until the candlestick was completely removed? How does this apply to us today in leaving a church?
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For me, I cannot be part of a church that:
1. Is wrong on salvation - like not preaching repentance or is Calvinistic.
2. Is worldly
3. Does not evangelize
4. Wants to be segregated by race
5. Is new evangelical
On the other hand, I can be a part of a church like my current one where I do disagree on some things as long as they accept me and do not impose it on me like:
1. Where the church believes in tithing rather than grace giving for the new testament church
2. Eschatology - This is a complex issue, I am not sure where I stand on this
3. Where the church believes everyone should get married, on the other hand, I believe some are called to be single
4. Where the church believes it is wrong to use credit cards
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No, what invalidates TULIP is that it is unbiblical.
It misuses and redefines biblical terms.
Calvin was unsaved man who examined the Bible as a book of law, then created his own version of Catholicism with him as the leader, and then ruled that religion by fear and threatenings.
Those who follow this wicked man, follow the ravings of a man opposed to God and opposed to God's Word.
I wonder why someone would name a system of theology after an unsaved man who persecuted true Christians.
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I read a chapter at least 5 times to get a lot out of it and to study with understanding. A lot of people who use the 1 year reading plans rush through the scriptures and may not get a lot of it with their hasty reading. Reading slowly and carefully has helped me. I am not concerned how long it will take me to get through the Bible.
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Maybe not but that was the term from the time homosexuals attacked the APA conference in the 70's until they were given protected class status under Obama. Just a little over 30 years but, you may be right once Hillary becomes president.
I have a strange feeling Hillary will be the next president.
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Interesting - I've not heard there are 7-pointers...what are the two beyond TULIP?
Maybe we can say 6 pointers believe those who don't believe in the philosophy of Calvinism are not saved and maybe we can say 7 pointers believe Calvinists who believe non Calvinists are saved are themselves not saved. Maybe an 8 pointer could be someone who believes God caused Adam and Eve to sin and has pleasure in throwing people to hell.
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There are a lot of rules oftentimes that Baptist churches add outside of the Bible. If I had a family, with my income, which is above average, I don't know how I would obey some of the added Independent Baptist rules like being obligated to send all the children to a Christian school, tithing the gross income all to the church, and not allowing the wife to work outside the home in any circumstances.