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2Tim215

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  1. Thanks
    2Tim215 reacted to heartstrings in Is It Ok To Treat Somneone Like A Dog?   
    Just because Jesus did it?


    Matthew 15: 21Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. MatthewAnd her daughter was made whole from that very hour.


    Who was she adressing? God. Why do I say that? Because Jesus knew this woman, knew her faith, and knew what she would do after he let her keep BEGGING until He finally implied that she was a dog, and then she admitted she was a dog....he knew all that before she cried out the first time. The point has been made that Jesus, Paul and others were "mean spirited and arrogant". Paul I'm not so sure, but I can promise you that when Jesus says we're dogs, he is not being mean spirited, arrogant, or even sarcastic Arrogance comes from pride, and God has none, ZERO. Jesus is TRUTH. When he says we're as dog, we're a dog, just a fact. Jesus, the KING of Glory, KNEW how great this woman's faith was and how tenacious about it she would be LONG before she uttered the first cry. He didn
    t just finally "give in". he did it all on purpose. And through it all, those disciples got to MARVEL at her faith and the POWER of God that followed. None of this gives any of us the right to be rude or call people names. After all God can call us a FOOL to our face if He wants to....but WE better not do it to anyone.
  2. Thanks
    2Tim215 reacted to John81 in Is It Ok To Treat Somneone Like A Dog?   
    Good points! It's also important to realize Jesus was using the talk of dogs in an illustrative manner which this woman and those around were familiar with. Jesus wasn't actually calling this woman a dog in the manner it would be if we were to call someone a dog today.

    Of course, in America, there are certain situation where if a person is called a dog, they actually take it as a compliment.

    Good post! Also I would say, much needed. There seems to a be a growing movement among some to think it's okay to speak to others in a rude and obnoxious manner. They try to say Jesus did this but that's not what Jesus did. It's also often missed that the "harshest" words Jesus used were aimed at the religious leaders of the day, which should have known the Scripture, recognized who Jesus was and welcomed Him. Jesus was not harsh in His speach to average folks and there is plenty of admonition to us in the New Testament showing that we shouldn't be either.
  3. Thanks
    2Tim215 reacted to heartstrings in Are You A Connoisseur?   
    Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise. Psalm 33:3

    Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecclesiastes 9:10

    Seest thou a man diligent in his business? he shall stand before kings; he shall not stand before mean men. Proverbs 22:29

    He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster. Proverbs 18:9

    And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Colossians 3:23


    While we have to live in this world we all have worldly needs for worldly goods and services. It is just as much testimony to do an honest days work, and do your very best as it is to "witness" to people. Because people are watching, and they notice if you are a careless, lazy slacker who takes shortcuts or shortchanges them on quality, service and time. They also notice when you do right. It's part of "letting your light shine". I believe that it doesn't matter if you are a musician, plumber, electrician, garbage man, or preacher; you should strive diligently to be the VERY BEST you can possibly be at what you do. It honors God..
  4. Thanks
    2Tim215 reacted to HappyChristian in They Which Preach the Gospel...   
    No scripture that says it is the responsibility of the pastor to preach the Gospel? Well, Paul is often cited in interesting ways in threads like these, so I'll cite him here. Let's check 2 Timothy chapter 4. Timothy was a pastor. And Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote:
    "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ...Preach the WORD...do the work of an evangelist." Last I checked, the Gospel is part of the Word. And if only evangelists are to preach the Gospel, that flies in the face of what Paul told Timothy: obviously pastors are to do the work of evangelists...So,yes, pastors have the responsibility to, among other things, preach the Gospel.

    Scripture provided.
  5. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Tabitha41 in Shame For A Woman To Speak In Church.   
    I think it's also and maybe only, a practical reason. Men are SUPPOSED to be logical while woman are more emotional. Though biblical spirituality has emotion it is good to note that the majority of God's Word is practical and sound doctrine is always practical. Practicality and logic go hand in hand and anyone making sound spiritual (biblical) decisions in any leadership role needs logic and practicality. This includes teaching God's Word. Leadership in any form can never be emotional. Emotional decisions are inevitably bad decisions (not always, but mostly). If one looks at the modern charismatic or denominational churches where woman lead one will always see a higher emotional content rather than a practical and logical biblical one. In this day and age where woman are regarded as equal in the home, the church and the work place we see "harder" woman taking on the roles of men.
    My wife is a nurse and as an artist I work from home - more often than not she brings in far more than I do and it is often commented upon by certain family members that I am the "wife" as these days "stay at home dads" are accepted as the norm and with job cuts, etc it is sadly often the case that men have to stay at home. Yet I am the leader of our household. I manage the finances, etc but we share all decision making though I have final say and I am blessed with a wife that very seldom says "I told you so!"
    I say all this because a lot of what Paul said concerning woman has been abused by men for selfish reasons and when we put aside our pride, self and personal feelings we will see that men and woman are equal in God's eyes and are just DIFFERENT with different roles to play, neither one less or inferior to the other. Men are just as prone to make emotional decisions as woman are - usually in anger and always in pride, men are just not supposed to be RULED by emotions as woman can be - we are the father, they the mother. We the law giver, they the care giver (and by law I mean spiritual law, not chauvinistic law) and the list goes on.
    It's when we reverse these roles that problems arise.
  6. Thanks
    2Tim215 reacted to Calvary in Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?   
    One good thing that comes form a long and twisted debate over a biblical topic is that many sides are heard. Pro, con, a few rabbit trails. My purpose is not to convince this heretic he is wrong, but to convince others that he is wrong in order to turn them away from a false teacher. This man is unrepentent when he is found to be a liar. In truth I could care less if he wanted to deprive a church of their duty to the minister. That is a personal choice. My desire is to teach the whole counsle of the word of God, not just snippets and out of context verses to those that seek God's leading in serving Him as a full time vocation. Dear brother or sister in Christ, care not for the railings of this fool who cares nothing for truth. If the Lord has called you, He has a great plan to provide for you. It's called the local church. He has established clearly in His word that local churches will and should colabor with you in your calling. Fear not! His provision is timely and always in abundance. He has said you are worth DOUBLE HONOR and He will take care of your needs. Though, sadly, he will probably not be able to use this prattling fool who has deemed any pastor who recieves a stipend as a beggar.

    This thread which I thjink Ill lock now stands as a treatise to any one interested about what the BIble says over the provision and care of the full time worker.

    Thank you all for a good and lively debate, thank you to those who contributed sound and logical scriptural arguements along the way. Iron sharpens iron and I am glad that we had this discussion.

    SFIC, I am ashamed of you and for you as you would deny the brethren their due and like Judas who held the bag, refused to allow the Lord's generosity be seen as a blessing.

    God bless,
    Calvary
  7. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Calvary in Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?   
    Act 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
    Act 20:33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
    Act 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
    Act 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

    No he was not saying that. Right through the chapter he speaks of all he has done and the sacrifices he has made for the gospel and the church. He then tells them that he has COVETED no mans silver, gold etc. He then tells them that THEY THEMSELVES are aware that he has supported himself AND THOSE WITH HIM, with his own hands. What, if he was COMMANDING all who serve the Lord through preaching why did he support those with him and they did no work? This is not a command - this is Paul shaming them through his own example, that as he was able to support those with him so should they through their labors support the weak. Not all were gifted with the ability or with the skill of a trade to support themselves. Paul then leaves them with a reminder of the Words of Jesus, which is always a command - "it's more blessed to give than receive" - this is the POINT of the whole passage here - that they should support those that minister unto them if they are unable to support themselves.

    You are right concerning faith and that it is God who supplies all our needs - but you make God and His Word a liar by stating that God does not want the church supporting His servants. Once again you have taken out of context and twisted to suit your own agenda and doctrine. I pray for the ignorant that have been mislead by you!!
  8. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Anon in Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?   
    We are now on 107 posts and still going nowhere. Lets get all churches to stop paying the Pastors, the missionaries, etc and make them all go out and get jobs. At least it will kill the prosperity preachers, boost the economy - oh wait - the economy is down the creek without a paddle, so these pastors won't even get work and if they do they'll be taking our jobs!

    Lets get them to work 5/6 days a week, do visitations after work, prepare sermons when they finish visitations and mid week meetings and then preach on Sunday and during all this WORK let them ignore their families and then start over on Monday - a few months of this and most pastors will be chewing their wrists, giving up preaching all together or end up divorced, I say most except for the heroes of the faith like SFIC and Paul, because the rest of us lying thieving BEGGARS who don't deserve to be called servants of Christ.
  9. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Calvary in Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?   
    Wasn't arguing, just making facetious remarks. Learn't long ago that there is no point arguing with a zealot.
  10. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from teylacarter91 in Leaving.   
    I stand on what I wrote earlier. I also emphatically state that any believer that is "hostile" in their attitude regarding the Word of God is a believer to steer clear of. I was taught in a staunch IFB bible college that teaches KJV only that any person with an agenda that does not include the ENTIRE Word of God is a cultist and many IFB believers take a doctrine and turn it into a cult where the doctrine becomes more important than everything else in the bible. The bible is the WHOLE truth and there are many doctrines in the bible that make up the whole, not just one or two that appeal to a individuals personal tastes.

    Regarding your MIL and her Pastor - you alone will stand before Christ one day and they will not be there holding your hand and you can not point a finger in accusation So stand fast to what you believe until God shows you otherwise, but be ready to humble yourself when He does and ignore the "I told you so's" that always come out of the mouths of proud baptists and until then remember Rom 12: 19-21

    Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
    Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
    Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

    Almost the same in either version

    19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
    “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
    if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
    In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
    21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
  11. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Anon in Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?   
    It makes all the difference. It substantiates your claims and if they "did not have to beg" then could only have come from God or the world. If from God then why not give Him the Glory He deserves. This is like saying "I am Saved" but when asked how and by whom stating "What difference does it make how? The fact is, I am and you are not". I agree with Kitagirl - PLEASE SHARE!
  12. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from rancher824 in Leaving.   
    I see in your Bio you state:

    came here looking for answers, not to be slammed down for daring to use a Bible other than King James.

    Remember that our growth is directly effected by the offense we take and hold onto. I also have a very strong aversion to many of the attitudes presented on this forum concerning some IFB doctrinal points, but as John stated:



    If the Lord has not yet convicted you in your heart concerning the Bible you use then keep on using it!!! No one can force a doctrinal point on you and you can not judge a group by the attitudes and actions of a few individuals. I myself used a NKJV (they hate this one just as much) for years in a staunch IFB church and refused to budge until through study and heart felt conviction I was convinced otherwise. Many IFB's use there "separatism" and "doctrinal megalomania" as a crutch to support some very way off doctrines based on personal preference. Please do not use these to judge the rest of us and allow your heart to soften and your skin to thicken - you need very thick skin here sometimes as many like to and to and many of us just take it with a and allow God to do His thing. So I would hang around and learn a thing or two - always testing it with the Word and just ignore the die hards that could learn a thing or two about charity and compassion. And remember this too, the written word can seem a lot harder than a friendly face and spoken voice - some come across hard in their writing but aren't all that bad in person.

    God Bless and trust in the Lord and He will guide you.
  13. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Salyan in Leaving.   
    I see in your Bio you state:

    came here looking for answers, not to be slammed down for daring to use a Bible other than King James.

    Remember that our growth is directly effected by the offense we take and hold onto. I also have a very strong aversion to many of the attitudes presented on this forum concerning some IFB doctrinal points, but as John stated:



    If the Lord has not yet convicted you in your heart concerning the Bible you use then keep on using it!!! No one can force a doctrinal point on you and you can not judge a group by the attitudes and actions of a few individuals. I myself used a NKJV (they hate this one just as much) for years in a staunch IFB church and refused to budge until through study and heart felt conviction I was convinced otherwise. Many IFB's use there "separatism" and "doctrinal megalomania" as a crutch to support some very way off doctrines based on personal preference. Please do not use these to judge the rest of us and allow your heart to soften and your skin to thicken - you need very thick skin here sometimes as many like to and to and many of us just take it with a and allow God to do His thing. So I would hang around and learn a thing or two - always testing it with the Word and just ignore the die hards that could learn a thing or two about charity and compassion. And remember this too, the written word can seem a lot harder than a friendly face and spoken voice - some come across hard in their writing but aren't all that bad in person.

    God Bless and trust in the Lord and He will guide you.
  14. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from teylacarter91 in Leaving.   
    I see in your Bio you state:

    came here looking for answers, not to be slammed down for daring to use a Bible other than King James.

    Remember that our growth is directly effected by the offense we take and hold onto. I also have a very strong aversion to many of the attitudes presented on this forum concerning some IFB doctrinal points, but as John stated:



    If the Lord has not yet convicted you in your heart concerning the Bible you use then keep on using it!!! No one can force a doctrinal point on you and you can not judge a group by the attitudes and actions of a few individuals. I myself used a NKJV (they hate this one just as much) for years in a staunch IFB church and refused to budge until through study and heart felt conviction I was convinced otherwise. Many IFB's use there "separatism" and "doctrinal megalomania" as a crutch to support some very way off doctrines based on personal preference. Please do not use these to judge the rest of us and allow your heart to soften and your skin to thicken - you need very thick skin here sometimes as many like to and to and many of us just take it with a and allow God to do His thing. So I would hang around and learn a thing or two - always testing it with the Word and just ignore the die hards that could learn a thing or two about charity and compassion. And remember this too, the written word can seem a lot harder than a friendly face and spoken voice - some come across hard in their writing but aren't all that bad in person.

    God Bless and trust in the Lord and He will guide you.
  15. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Covenanter in Gonna be a daddy   
    After 14 yrs of marriage I would have thought that I was past the danger, but noooooo, God had other plans (thanks for letting me know God!), So I was woken up at 2 this morning with "you are going to be a daddy" well, no sleep after that! (and it's her birthday day!!!) So we need all the prayers I can get now. Business needs to bring in a reliable income now or a good job would be on top of that list being the pragmatic person I am.

    Thanks All
  16. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from LindaR in Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?   
    How about the other side of the picture. I have approached many "missionary" organizations in the past and because I don't go to a church as the closest IFB church that I trust is over 950 kms away and they only have 20-30 people on a good Sunday, I am not an "acceptable" candidate for missions work. I have been to most of the churches here in my town and their doctrine is so far off I usually end up walking out during the service.I do not have a trust fund, I do not believe in asking for money and God hasn't supplied as yet so I have stopped trying. Many a young man has been called and short of God Himself depositing money into their bank account are unable to afford to study or enter the ministry. Many churches these days I find are tight fisted with their funds and will usually only assist those who have been involved in the church for some time. You can't really blame them though as many have abused the trust placed in them over the years.

    I agree that SFIC is a bit strong in his view concerning "deputation" and "begging" for assistance, but is he wrong concerning the faith issue? Not in my opinion. Too many pastors, missionaries and others doing church work are in it for the wrong reasons and are not called and shouldn't be doing it. They cause more harm than good. So if God doesn't provide then you can be sure that you shouldn't be there because if He has called you He WILL make a way. He didn't make a way for me so I have to believe that my "calling" was my desire and not His will for me. This is just my opinion from my own personal experience. So without some form of making it known that God has called a young man into the ministry how else are they to proceed?
  17. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from John81 in Paycheck for fulltime worker? Is it Biblical?   
    How about the other side of the picture. I have approached many "missionary" organizations in the past and because I don't go to a church as the closest IFB church that I trust is over 950 kms away and they only have 20-30 people on a good Sunday, I am not an "acceptable" candidate for missions work. I have been to most of the churches here in my town and their doctrine is so far off I usually end up walking out during the service.I do not have a trust fund, I do not believe in asking for money and God hasn't supplied as yet so I have stopped trying. Many a young man has been called and short of God Himself depositing money into their bank account are unable to afford to study or enter the ministry. Many churches these days I find are tight fisted with their funds and will usually only assist those who have been involved in the church for some time. You can't really blame them though as many have abused the trust placed in them over the years.

    I agree that SFIC is a bit strong in his view concerning "deputation" and "begging" for assistance, but is he wrong concerning the faith issue? Not in my opinion. Too many pastors, missionaries and others doing church work are in it for the wrong reasons and are not called and shouldn't be doing it. They cause more harm than good. So if God doesn't provide then you can be sure that you shouldn't be there because if He has called you He WILL make a way. He didn't make a way for me so I have to believe that my "calling" was my desire and not His will for me. This is just my opinion from my own personal experience. So without some form of making it known that God has called a young man into the ministry how else are they to proceed?
  18. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from 1John2:15-17 in Don't Spank Your Kids or They'll Turn out Like Rick   
    Children, like dogs (oooooh, think I might upset a few with that) need to learn boundaries. I train both the same way. The RULE OF THREE. Once, twice - then the applicable punishment. Most times they stop at two :knuppel:
  19. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Steve Schwenke in Will A Man Rob God?   
    Any one stop to think that because money is a object that does not decay, and that gold and silver is universally accepted that God purposely used the fruits of the harvest as a tithe in order to curb corruption as it could not be stored for long and to show that Gods provision was renewable and daily, not to be hoarded? Just a thought I had.
  20. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Steve Schwenke in Will A Man Rob God?   
    John, I am in no way saying that we should not be content in all things. That God does not provide our every need at the right time. And you are 100% right about the car, in hindsight we can always see His wisdom in His provision, even though at the time it may seem suspect, or not quite what we were hoping for, it's always for the best. What I am saying though is that we have not because we ask not. That we have been conditioned by life, false doctrine, the church and previous unanswered prayers to ask Him for little and not for much. That we give up to easily when it comes to petitioning God for a need. That we expect second best and thus that's all we ask for. God has put principles into play when it comes to prayer that He stands by. I am playing with possibilities of prayer and the outcomes of what we ask for in my thoughts here - have been for a while. And I am beginning to come to the conclusion that He wants us to ask more from Him and not give until we get it, that prayer in the lives of believers and the church is the most important thing to learn right and maintain daily with consistency. That we have forgotten how to pray and need to relearn this and that when we do then great thing will be done in His name for His glory. There is nothing wrong with money, with having it and using it, as long as one knows that it all comes from Him, belongs to Him and that we are only stewards of what He has given us and that EVERYTHING we do is to His glory.
  21. Thanks
    2Tim215 reacted to John81 in Will A Man Rob God?   
    Through personal witness, support of our local church and all its outreach, the missionaries our church supports and a missionary in India we help support.

    God nowhere promises believers the best of everything, he promises to meet our needs.

    Since you referenced the car, that 15 year old car with 200,000 miles on it has served very well and being an older car the insurance is lower. Had God sent us a new car, that would have required much more insurance and would have cost a great deal more.

    As Paul said, he knew how to be thankful and content when God provided only his most basic needs and also when God supplied him abudnantly.

    God knows the beginning from the end. He knows what is absolutely best for us at all times.

    God wants His people to be seen following him in faith, joy and contentment no matter their situation. He wants others to see Christ in us and be drawn to that. God doesn't give his people great riches and earthly success for the world to notice and lust after.

    Riches can be a terrible snare. Those who have riches in this life, but don't have Christ, have already received the best they ever will. Those of us in Christ, whether rich, poor or in between, have a blessed eternity filled with treasure much greater than anything on this earth to look forward to.

    As the three young Hebrews told the king, God is capable of saving from the fire, but whether He does or not, they will be faithful to Him. The same should be true for us. God is capable of giving us all things on this earth, but whether He gives us abundance, a goodly amount or just the basics, we should be faithful to Him.
  22. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Steve Schwenke in Will A Man Rob God?   
    You know. one thing SFIC is right about is the lack of faith in our modern "Christianity". I say this in a broad spectrum as I know of pastors that live by faith alone and I know of many "workers" that don't. My pastor is a IFB pastor who lives by faith alone and is poor by the worlds standards, my friends uncle is a charismatic one that has three cars, a 6 million Rand home in a exclusive town in the Cape and travels the world preaching and staying in luxury.

    I myself have had a heart for missions since I was 6 and have learnt the hard way concerning mission boards and missionary organizations. If you don't have the funds or a big enough church to back you then don't bother trying. I have also stepped out in faith and seen what that can do. Have seen God provide where it seems impossible to make it week by week let alone month by month.

    SFIC has always "seemed" to come across arrogant, hard, unwavering and unilateral in his doctrinal views. Is this a bad thing? Must he bow to the pressure of those of us who disagree? I say no and can grudgingly respect him for his ability to stand firm on what he believes on this forum. Whether this is true in his life I do not know, but I do PERSONALLY feel he should be more open to being teachable. That being said, I also believe that because modern Christianity has abused the financial issue and others, we have thrown the bath out with the dirty water. Why must pastors who preach sound doctrine and stand fast to the original principles (fundamentals) be poor? Why do we seem to expect second best from God? Why must we get the old car? Thrift store clothing and hand me downs? Why must those who have a calling to do Gods work struggle and make do? We say because this keeps us on "our knees". That it strengthens our faith and teaches us to pray and seek out God. That if we have too much we become self reliant and not God reliant. Must a pastor work outside a church to provide and thus be self reliant, or must he work in the church full time and be God reliant. Are churches to blame that force pastors to sign employment contracts where the church dictates their every move? How much of today's standards concerning the payment of God's workers is worldly based or scriptural?

    Personally, I have decided in my own life that I will not be a slave to a mans church, that I will not "beg" for food. That I will not be forced to work two jobs, one for the world and one for God (we cannot serve two masters). That I will NOT expect NOR accept second best to serve the GREAT I AM. A man I went to school with circumnavigated Africa on a bicycle and came up with this - No food for the lazy man - we know it's biblical version - Gen 3:19. I have yet to meet a pastor that preaches the truth that is lazy - their lives are always consumed by their service often to the detriment of their health and family, so why do they not deserve the best from God or the church they serve. Many give up personal dreams and desires to serve God so why is the expected norm amongst fundamentals that they must "dumpster dive" to live? Are we not the children of the Most High?

    I know without a doubt that I am called to preach. I started my studies in faith alone. I stopped my studies because I will not accept second best from God nor from His church. I will not dumpster dive because its expected as a character builder, nor will I live in poverty because some believe that as I pastor I am not "working" for my living.

    Is SFIC right concerning his viewpoint on faith?




    Yes he is sadly. But If God is the author of our faith why is our faith never enough that we must incorporate worldly practices to meet the needs of those who serve Him.? Is it because we are so used to expecting second best from God.

    John stated :



    Why are we conditioned to expect so little from God? Why does this seem to be the prevalent attitude amongst bible believers and not modern charismatics? They seem so blessed while we seem so poor. Is this right? Have we lost sight of God's power to give abundantly? Is our faith lacking somehow yet theirs is not? Or do they milk the system and this IS the way God blesses us? With the scraps from the table?

    He then states :



    True, yet I quote another statement :



    Why could God not give a new car? Why second best? Yes it served their needs perfectly. Yet I have to ask do we ask for second best and that is EXACTLY what God gives us because that is what we expect? I have seen in my prayer life where God has given me exactly what I asked for and what I asked for was second best because I did not believe He would give me the best - some food for thought there!

    SFIC stated :



    Was this specifically for the disciples or is it applicable to the church? Was the church in effect then? Is this "doctrine" for us? Did Jesus not say this to teach the disciples faith in order to prepare them for when He left? So then why does Paul give instruction to the churches to gather as God has "prospered" them?

    1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
    1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
    1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

    That a collection be taken before they arrive? Is this not asking for "funds"? Was Paul not relying on God when he requested this? Was his faith not enough? Was he relying on man and not God?

    Yes the 10% tithe is not mentioned in the NT as doctrine for the church, But SFIC, is it WRONG to use it as a guideline? We see above that collections were "ordered" by Paul - an INSTRUCTION to the churches, that we are to give freely as God has prospered us, but I personally have never had God verbally instruct me on how much, sometimes though,we "feel" how much we are to give, yet again, is it wrong to give a guideline to the average Sunday pew warmer who only opens up their bible for ten minutes while the pastor preaches on how much to give? I don't think so IMHO.

    You ask :



    I ask :

    Where is the verse that says the KJV 1611 AV is the true Word of God?

    Yet you stand by this belief. We here all do. You go as far as to say that the Jesus of any other version is a liar and sinner, yet without any scriptural evidence to the contrary you believe that the KJV is Gods true and inspired word.

    When I left everything behind to go and study to preach I met a cantankerous old man in the IFB church God placed me in. A "brethren" that by his own statements had been asked to leave over 10 churches, even his brethren fellowship. He single handedly destroyed my faith - in God, myself, my calling and the church and to this day I wonder why God put him in my life. Mostly I humored him and though my pastor warned me, out of politeness and respect of his age I compromised my beliefs and principles by keeping quite, believing this to be a lesson in humility as he was paying me to do home repair work that he could no longer do. I was wrong. I needed the funds and believed that this was Gods provision. I was wrong again. His doctrinal viewpoints, attitude to those who disagreed and standing remind me very much of yours and I do not say this to condemn or judge you, but to remind you that men of your age and understanding of the word have a responsibility to the "babes" in Christ, one to be taken seriously, so pray very very hard before making statements or teaching doctrine that could adversely affect the growth of fellow believers, that you cause no offense - teach in love yet don't compromise the truth, but make very very sure that what you teach IS THE TRUTH from GODS WORD not the commentaries of man.

    2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
    2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
    2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
    2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
    2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
    2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

    I hope and pray that I have not offended you by this post and pray that you take the time to pray and know the heart of God, the same God we both serve, the same Word we both read and soften your heart and remember "CHARITY"
  23. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from 1Timothy115 in Will A Man Rob God?   
    You know. one thing SFIC is right about is the lack of faith in our modern "Christianity". I say this in a broad spectrum as I know of pastors that live by faith alone and I know of many "workers" that don't. My pastor is a IFB pastor who lives by faith alone and is poor by the worlds standards, my friends uncle is a charismatic one that has three cars, a 6 million Rand home in a exclusive town in the Cape and travels the world preaching and staying in luxury.

    I myself have had a heart for missions since I was 6 and have learnt the hard way concerning mission boards and missionary organizations. If you don't have the funds or a big enough church to back you then don't bother trying. I have also stepped out in faith and seen what that can do. Have seen God provide where it seems impossible to make it week by week let alone month by month.

    SFIC has always "seemed" to come across arrogant, hard, unwavering and unilateral in his doctrinal views. Is this a bad thing? Must he bow to the pressure of those of us who disagree? I say no and can grudgingly respect him for his ability to stand firm on what he believes on this forum. Whether this is true in his life I do not know, but I do PERSONALLY feel he should be more open to being teachable. That being said, I also believe that because modern Christianity has abused the financial issue and others, we have thrown the bath out with the dirty water. Why must pastors who preach sound doctrine and stand fast to the original principles (fundamentals) be poor? Why do we seem to expect second best from God? Why must we get the old car? Thrift store clothing and hand me downs? Why must those who have a calling to do Gods work struggle and make do? We say because this keeps us on "our knees". That it strengthens our faith and teaches us to pray and seek out God. That if we have too much we become self reliant and not God reliant. Must a pastor work outside a church to provide and thus be self reliant, or must he work in the church full time and be God reliant. Are churches to blame that force pastors to sign employment contracts where the church dictates their every move? How much of today's standards concerning the payment of God's workers is worldly based or scriptural?

    Personally, I have decided in my own life that I will not be a slave to a mans church, that I will not "beg" for food. That I will not be forced to work two jobs, one for the world and one for God (we cannot serve two masters). That I will NOT expect NOR accept second best to serve the GREAT I AM. A man I went to school with circumnavigated Africa on a bicycle and came up with this - No food for the lazy man - we know it's biblical version - Gen 3:19. I have yet to meet a pastor that preaches the truth that is lazy - their lives are always consumed by their service often to the detriment of their health and family, so why do they not deserve the best from God or the church they serve. Many give up personal dreams and desires to serve God so why is the expected norm amongst fundamentals that they must "dumpster dive" to live? Are we not the children of the Most High?

    I know without a doubt that I am called to preach. I started my studies in faith alone. I stopped my studies because I will not accept second best from God nor from His church. I will not dumpster dive because its expected as a character builder, nor will I live in poverty because some believe that as I pastor I am not "working" for my living.

    Is SFIC right concerning his viewpoint on faith?




    Yes he is sadly. But If God is the author of our faith why is our faith never enough that we must incorporate worldly practices to meet the needs of those who serve Him.? Is it because we are so used to expecting second best from God.

    John stated :



    Why are we conditioned to expect so little from God? Why does this seem to be the prevalent attitude amongst bible believers and not modern charismatics? They seem so blessed while we seem so poor. Is this right? Have we lost sight of God's power to give abundantly? Is our faith lacking somehow yet theirs is not? Or do they milk the system and this IS the way God blesses us? With the scraps from the table?

    He then states :



    True, yet I quote another statement :



    Why could God not give a new car? Why second best? Yes it served their needs perfectly. Yet I have to ask do we ask for second best and that is EXACTLY what God gives us because that is what we expect? I have seen in my prayer life where God has given me exactly what I asked for and what I asked for was second best because I did not believe He would give me the best - some food for thought there!

    SFIC stated :



    Was this specifically for the disciples or is it applicable to the church? Was the church in effect then? Is this "doctrine" for us? Did Jesus not say this to teach the disciples faith in order to prepare them for when He left? So then why does Paul give instruction to the churches to gather as God has "prospered" them?

    1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
    1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
    1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

    That a collection be taken before they arrive? Is this not asking for "funds"? Was Paul not relying on God when he requested this? Was his faith not enough? Was he relying on man and not God?

    Yes the 10% tithe is not mentioned in the NT as doctrine for the church, But SFIC, is it WRONG to use it as a guideline? We see above that collections were "ordered" by Paul - an INSTRUCTION to the churches, that we are to give freely as God has prospered us, but I personally have never had God verbally instruct me on how much, sometimes though,we "feel" how much we are to give, yet again, is it wrong to give a guideline to the average Sunday pew warmer who only opens up their bible for ten minutes while the pastor preaches on how much to give? I don't think so IMHO.

    You ask :



    I ask :

    Where is the verse that says the KJV 1611 AV is the true Word of God?

    Yet you stand by this belief. We here all do. You go as far as to say that the Jesus of any other version is a liar and sinner, yet without any scriptural evidence to the contrary you believe that the KJV is Gods true and inspired word.

    When I left everything behind to go and study to preach I met a cantankerous old man in the IFB church God placed me in. A "brethren" that by his own statements had been asked to leave over 10 churches, even his brethren fellowship. He single handedly destroyed my faith - in God, myself, my calling and the church and to this day I wonder why God put him in my life. Mostly I humored him and though my pastor warned me, out of politeness and respect of his age I compromised my beliefs and principles by keeping quite, believing this to be a lesson in humility as he was paying me to do home repair work that he could no longer do. I was wrong. I needed the funds and believed that this was Gods provision. I was wrong again. His doctrinal viewpoints, attitude to those who disagreed and standing remind me very much of yours and I do not say this to condemn or judge you, but to remind you that men of your age and understanding of the word have a responsibility to the "babes" in Christ, one to be taken seriously, so pray very very hard before making statements or teaching doctrine that could adversely affect the growth of fellow believers, that you cause no offense - teach in love yet don't compromise the truth, but make very very sure that what you teach IS THE TRUTH from GODS WORD not the commentaries of man.

    2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
    2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
    2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
    2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
    2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
    2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

    I hope and pray that I have not offended you by this post and pray that you take the time to pray and know the heart of God, the same God we both serve, the same Word we both read and soften your heart and remember "CHARITY"
  24. Thanks
    2Tim215 reacted to swathdiver in Prayers Needed   
    I've walked out of more doctor visits than I can count because the clerks demanded more money up front than was due them, if any at all. Seems they are mighty confused with all the different insurance plans out there.

    UPDATE:

    Thanks so much for your prayers and support. With these new doctors (fired the old one and hired a new one) they have finally, rightfully identified and explained my condition to me and have taken immediate steps to improve my health. So far it's working. With all the new activity I've been able to do, I'm pretty sore but Glory to God I'm feeling so much better!
  25. Thanks
    2Tim215 got a reaction from Steve Schwenke in Will A Man Rob God?   
    Have you ever done this? Stepped out "in faith" and God supplied ALL your needs? I have and fell flat on my Balaams talking ass. And don't tell me that my faith wasn't sufficient or I wasn't called, etc. God is not some magical Wizard that turns lead into gold (though I know He can) whenever His people need financial or any other support. He relies on the work of His people to support His work in this world. If His people don't supply the needs of His workers He is not going to suddenly start dropping manna from heaven again. The Jew required a sign we have wisdom - His Word - He has given us enough wisdom to use our brains to realize that without the financial assistance of believers and churches, pastors and missionaries would never be, regardless on whether it's OT 10% giving or NT giving.

    Making an issue out of those that use the OT 10% tithe as an example in relation to NT giving with a thankful heart is just being petty. The reality is that the modern church has abused the whole finances issue because we live in a capitalist society where believers debt and desire to have more outweighs their ability and desire to give. This has left a shortfall where pastors that have had moments of weakness (or greed) have had to use scripture to exhort money. I think that you have a cold heart and have forgotten your first love. That you pick on finer points of doctrine to a point where you can't even see the truth anymore.

    I leave you with these verses and hope and pray that you find in your heart the love and charity that Paul speaks of, that you show some charity instead of the sarcasm and enmity often seen in your replies.


    1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
    1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
    1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
    1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
    1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
    1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
    1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

    Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
    Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
    Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
    Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

    1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
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