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Everything posted by 2Tim215

  1. I am not condemning anyone. I did not make any statements at specific persons but rather at the general underling doctrine believed by some. And I said "arrogant statements" - This does not imply arrogance onto the testator but onto the STATEMENT. - so if you want quotes here they are. Show me those scriptures that state that they made a "profession" of faith. Many a saved believer has lost a loved one, been hurt, got cancer, etc etc and in anger and hurt "FULLY" rejected Christ in their hearts - this does not mean we have the right to judge them unsaved because we see the fruits from only a glimpse of there lives and not the whole story. I feel very strongly about this trend amongst many IFB's to judge a person unsaved like they would a book by it's cover without even taking the time to read the story. We can judge sin in a believers life, there fruit or lack thereof, there doctrine but where in the Word does it say we can blithely take God's place as Savior and condemn people unsaved by our words?
  2. I find it amazing how many of you are quick to state that a believer living in sin was never saved in the first place. The bible is very clear on salvation - believe on the finished work of Christ at the cross and you will be saved through His faith not yours. What you do with your life after that is your responsibility, NOT GOD'S. This "living in sin" however does not cause one to lose their salvation. Like the Pharisees you make your interpretation more important than God's simple truth. It's too simple, to easy for you to accept that God grace is greater than your sin. You will easily believe that His grace is enough for your pre-salvation sin, but not for any continual sin after salvation - this stinks of works not grace - of Calvinism. You make God small and petty and say things like "he must not have made a proper profession"; "he didn't believe enough"; "he was never TRULY saved" and " he was not filled with the spirit". You believe! Your salvation is not dependent on YOU but on GOD, not your sins past, present, continual or future, BUT ON GOD"S GRACE!!!!!!!~!!!!!!!! So stop using your own OPINION to explain a man/woman's struggle with sin - pray for them instead of condemning them with your arrogant statements as if you have the power of God to know a man's heart. If a person believes they are saved - they are not chosen to believe beforehand and can not take salvation doctrine from the gospels and always remember Acts Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
  3. You know they are getting "old" when they make statements like this :stirthepot:
  4. As an artist blacksmith and blade smith I can appreciate all things done by hand, especially the "old forgotten" crafts and I also have a thing for cast iron cookware - my wife threw my whole collection out when we first got married and being the young naive newly wed christian divorce was not an option - we laugh about now - but I was not amused at the time.
  5. Lets take a look at the scripture you provided. Vrs 8 - men praying, not woman Vrses 9-10 - woman "profess godliness" through good works and modesty - is this not a testimony? Is a woman's testimony not maybe a "silent" one through actions? Food for thought? Vrs 11-12 - Her silence is in conjunction with teaching and the context of the book is church leadership, doctrine and preaching - so her silence must be in context with those aspects only. Paul then goes on to explain why: 1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. Vrs 13 - Adam first, not Eve. Vrs 14 - Eve deceived, not Adam and this is important as Adam was NOT deceived - he knew the consequences and took the responsibility of her sin on himself - this is the same responsibility of the husband and father - he teaches and guides his wife and family in all things spiritual - he is the head of the home for this very reason. Vrs 15 though is one I am still working on as I do not believe a woman is saved only through child bearing only if they "continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety" Thoughts on this would be appreciated. So the answer would seem to be that any vocalization of a woman in a meeting is not acceptable besides that of praise as that is not once mentioned.
  6. Sorry Jerry, HIS presence not ITS. :boxing:
  7. Oh stop being sore! If everyone agreed with you who would you have to argue with? No one will EVER agree 60% on doctrine, let alone 100% - we tell you where we stand and you ALWAYS tell us where you stand - you don't see us complaining like a child that Johnny got the cake and Suzie didn't. That shows the attitude of a sore loser, a bully and a person that is not 100% behind there own convictions. If you were you would rest easy in the truth. Besides - you give us stuff to think about - it's our own responsibility to check the Word and see whose right - not yours.
  8. I think it's also and maybe only, a practical reason. Men are SUPPOSED to be logical while woman are more emotional. Though biblical spirituality has emotion it is good to note that the majority of God's Word is practical and sound doctrine is always practical. Practicality and logic go hand in hand and anyone making sound spiritual (biblical) decisions in any leadership role needs logic and practicality. This includes teaching God's Word. Leadership in any form can never be emotional. Emotional decisions are inevitably bad decisions (not always, but mostly). If one looks at the modern charismatic or denominational churches where woman lead one will always see a higher emotional content rather than a practical and logical biblical one. In this day and age where woman are regarded as equal in the home, the church and the work place we see "harder" woman taking on the roles of men. My wife is a nurse and as an artist I work from home - more often than not she brings in far more than I do and it is often commented upon by certain family members that I am the "wife" as these days "stay at home dads" are accepted as the norm and with job cuts, etc it is sadly often the case that men have to stay at home. Yet I am the leader of our household. I manage the finances, etc but we share all decision making though I have final say and I am blessed with a wife that very seldom says "I told you so!" I say all this because a lot of what Paul said concerning woman has been abused by men for selfish reasons and when we put aside our pride, self and personal feelings we will see that men and woman are equal in God's eyes and are just DIFFERENT with different roles to play, neither one less or inferior to the other. Men are just as prone to make emotional decisions as woman are - usually in anger and always in pride, men are just not supposed to be RULED by emotions as woman can be - we are the father, they the mother. We the law giver, they the care giver (and by law I mean spiritual law, not chauvinistic law) and the list goes on. It's when we reverse these roles that problems arise.
  9. Act 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. Act 20:33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Act 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. Act 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. No he was not saying that. Right through the chapter he speaks of all he has done and the sacrifices he has made for the gospel and the church. He then tells them that he has COVETED no mans silver, gold etc. He then tells them that THEY THEMSELVES are aware that he has supported himself AND THOSE WITH HIM, with his own hands. What, if he was COMMANDING all who serve the Lord through preaching why did he support those with him and they did no work? This is not a command - this is Paul shaming them through his own example, that as he was able to support those with him so should they through their labors support the weak. Not all were gifted with the ability or with the skill of a trade to support themselves. Paul then leaves them with a reminder of the Words of Jesus, which is always a command - "it's more blessed to give than receive" - this is the POINT of the whole passage here - that they should support those that minister unto them if they are unable to support themselves. You are right concerning faith and that it is God who supplies all our needs - but you make God and His Word a liar by stating that God does not want the church supporting His servants. Once again you have taken out of context and twisted to suit your own agenda and doctrine. I pray for the ignorant that have been mislead by you!!
  10. I can not find that phrase any where in the KJB so please tell me which version you are using. I did however find these verses: 1Co 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you; And none of these are commands to pastors specifically so explain where you get that statement that you hyphenated as if it is a verse?
  11. Wasn't arguing, just making facetious remarks. Learn't long ago that there is no point arguing with a zealot.
  12. We are now on 107 posts and still going nowhere. Lets get all churches to stop paying the Pastors, the missionaries, etc and make them all go out and get jobs. At least it will kill the prosperity preachers, boost the economy - oh wait - the economy is down the creek without a paddle, so these pastors won't even get work and if they do they'll be taking our jobs! Lets get them to work 5/6 days a week, do visitations after work, prepare sermons when they finish visitations and mid week meetings and then preach on Sunday and during all this WORK let them ignore their families and then start over on Monday - a few months of this and most pastors will be chewing their wrists, giving up preaching all together or end up divorced, I say most except for the heroes of the faith like SFIC and Paul, because the rest of us lying thieving BEGGARS who don't deserve to be called servants of Christ.
  13. Just curious here, Why did you have an ordination and in which congregation was this?
  14. I hope this question is not directed at me? Because if it is you are ONCE AGAIN making assumptions based on no evidence concerning my faith and character and proves your bigoted arrogance concerning all who disagree with your doctrinal views. All I did was reiterate Kitagirls question and no where did I state that God does not provide. I would appreciate it if you could refrain from making wild assumptions and instead give us substantiated proof regarding your view point. If your father worked then how and where and how much time was spent working and how much time ministering to the needs of his "mission" field? You said in Africa, then where in Africa? If you have nothing to hide then these questions should easily be answered and there should be nothing wrong with sharing a testimony that can strengthen the faith of others and substantiate your claims concerning God's provision, so why the constant evasion when asked direct questions?
  15. It makes all the difference. It substantiates your claims and if they "did not have to beg" then could only have come from God or the world. If from God then why not give Him the Glory He deserves. This is like saying "I am Saved" but when asked how and by whom stating "What difference does it make how? The fact is, I am and you are not". I agree with Kitagirl - PLEASE SHARE!
  16. I stand on what I wrote earlier. I also emphatically state that any believer that is "hostile" in their attitude regarding the Word of God is a believer to steer clear of. I was taught in a staunch IFB bible college that teaches KJV only that any person with an agenda that does not include the ENTIRE Word of God is a cultist and many IFB believers take a doctrine and turn it into a cult where the doctrine becomes more important than everything else in the bible. The bible is the WHOLE truth and there are many doctrines in the bible that make up the whole, not just one or two that appeal to a individuals personal tastes. Regarding your MIL and her Pastor - you alone will stand before Christ one day and they will not be there holding your hand and you can not point a finger in accusation So stand fast to what you believe until God shows you otherwise, but be ready to humble yourself when He does and ignore the "I told you so's" that always come out of the mouths of proud baptists and until then remember Rom 12: 19-21 Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Almost the same in either version 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
  17. I see in your Bio you state: came here looking for answers, not to be slammed down for daring to use a Bible other than King James. Remember that our growth is directly effected by the offense we take and hold onto. I also have a very strong aversion to many of the attitudes presented on this forum concerning some IFB doctrinal points, but as John stated: If the Lord has not yet convicted you in your heart concerning the Bible you use then keep on using it!!! No one can force a doctrinal point on you and you can not judge a group by the attitudes and actions of a few individuals. I myself used a NKJV (they hate this one just as much) for years in a staunch IFB church and refused to budge until through study and heart felt conviction I was convinced otherwise. Many IFB's use there "separatism" and "doctrinal megalomania" as a crutch to support some very way off doctrines based on personal preference. Please do not use these to judge the rest of us and allow your heart to soften and your skin to thicken - you need very thick skin here sometimes as many like to and to and many of us just take it with a and allow God to do His thing. So I would hang around and learn a thing or two - always testing it with the Word and just ignore the die hards that could learn a thing or two about charity and compassion. And remember this too, the written word can seem a lot harder than a friendly face and spoken voice - some come across hard in their writing but aren't all that bad in person. God Bless and trust in the Lord and He will guide you.
  18. Thanks all - still in state of terrified confused panic - it'll sink in eventually.
  19. After 14 yrs of marriage I would have thought that I was past the danger, but noooooo, God had other plans (thanks for letting me know God!), So I was woken up at 2 this morning with "you are going to be a daddy" well, no sleep after that! (and it's her birthday day!!!) So we need all the prayers I can get now. Business needs to bring in a reliable income now or a good job would be on top of that list being the pragmatic person I am. Thanks All
  20. That's just wrong. I know men here in SA that drive 400 kms to preach for free! That go out every Saturday to street preach and give out tracts. I would happily preach if my needs were met, not my wants. As a bladesmith and artist blacksmith I can work after hours for extra money. I think the problem is that there was a short period of time where churches were full and pastors could get positions that offered a building and a "manse" and it became an expected thing. My brother in law is a Presbyterian pastor and for a long time suffered because they have this thing - you can be "called" by a church or the church can offer you a contract. In the beginning he was given a contract and had to preach and do as the elders and deacons commanded, when he refused to compromise they told him that though they could do nothing now, he better start looking for another "job" as they would not renew his contract. He has recently been "called" by another Presy church - this means that he can stay or go as he is led by the Lord and and the church has no say in the matter. He can preach the Word and though the elders and deacons have a say, it holds no weight in the sense that they can fire him. He now has a nice big church with generally good people and a house next to the church - but it took ten yrs of hard work and staying true to his calling. What has it come to when churches control the pastors preaching by tightening the purse strings? And pastors must be forced into positions where they must choose to compromise or not by the elders if they want to feed there family? It's the same with the youth of today, they want dads house and car right after getting there first pay check yet don't want to work the 20 yrs it took for dad to get the nice house and car.
  21. My wife (god bless her strength) and I did exactly that. Sold everything, packed what was left in the backie (truck to you in the USA) and moved - don't quite know what happened but it's a long story full of bitternes and disenchantment and lots of anger on my side so after 18 months I decided that enough was enough and we moved back home to the support structure of family to start over again. Faith is not always rewarded like some think and teach that it will be. I am mature enough to know that the problem was not God but me, so we'll leave it at that for now.
  22. How about the other side of the picture. I have approached many "missionary" organizations in the past and because I don't go to a church as the closest IFB church that I trust is over 950 kms away and they only have 20-30 people on a good Sunday, I am not an "acceptable" candidate for missions work. I have been to most of the churches here in my town and their doctrine is so far off I usually end up walking out during the service.I do not have a trust fund, I do not believe in asking for money and God hasn't supplied as yet so I have stopped trying. Many a young man has been called and short of God Himself depositing money into their bank account are unable to afford to study or enter the ministry. Many churches these days I find are tight fisted with their funds and will usually only assist those who have been involved in the church for some time. You can't really blame them though as many have abused the trust placed in them over the years. I agree that SFIC is a bit strong in his view concerning "deputation" and "begging" for assistance, but is he wrong concerning the faith issue? Not in my opinion. Too many pastors, missionaries and others doing church work are in it for the wrong reasons and are not called and shouldn't be doing it. They cause more harm than good. So if God doesn't provide then you can be sure that you shouldn't be there because if He has called you He WILL make a way. He didn't make a way for me so I have to believe that my "calling" was my desire and not His will for me. This is just my opinion from my own personal experience. So without some form of making it known that God has called a young man into the ministry how else are they to proceed?
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