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Everything posted by 2Tim215

  1. What everyone forgets here is Paul is only doing what he preached. That is: Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. How could he do any less when his Savior did the same thing: Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. Both knew what lay ahead and both had a CHOICE and both decided on there own to do God's will. We should not look at this a warning not to go but rather as a revelation of what was to be with the decision left in Paul's hands. I think Paul knew the will of God in this and his companions acted out of fear and doubt and lack of faith. Many of us do the same and rant at a "cruel" God that leads his people into suffering and death and don't trust that He knows whats best. Maybe we should all learn to be content as Paul teaches and trust as he did. To sacrifice as Christ did and KNOW that God knows best.
  2. If the question is did Paul ever sin in his life after seeing the Risen Christ, then yes, he did. Take for example 2 Cor 12. Paul speaks of the thorn in the flesh. I was always taught that this was a physical ailment or weakness he had to deal with, but on deeper study have to wonder if this common teaching is correct. When we speak of grace we usually know it concerns salvation and that salvation is us being freed from sin in Christ. So grace most often coincides with sin in our lives. Paul in the opening of the chapter speaks of glorifying oneself and that "lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." He IMHO was struggling with the sin of pride and self glorification here over his fellow believers because of his special dispensation and position as a servant to Christ. Pride is not always a physical sin of action but more often a mental and one of the heart, so did he physically sin here? Possibly, maybe not but I think he did in his heart and mind and was reminded that God's grace is sufficient ALWAYS and greater than any sin we might have.
  3. True, but the agenda of "Irresistible Grace", etc will be pushed every time there is an opening. The bible is the whole truth and must be taken in it's entirety, I never believe those who use it to push a single doctrine. And if one reads it in it's entirety one will see that regeneration is always after salvation not before, that's why it's been called "born again" Unless we "gestate" for 9 months while He regenerates us and then are born again. But seeing as this is now lets get .
  4. Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
  5. If you are saying that God works in the hearts of men to lead them to Him, then I agree. BUT I do not believe that it is only the hearts of certain "chosen" people that God decides to work with. He works in the hearts of EVERY humane being ever born through the glory of creation, His Word, His messengers, etc (read Romans) but we have the God given ability to choose to listen or not, to believe or not, to follow or not and to obey or not.
  6. It's all very well and good to say - But you will note that I asked some questions too - have underlined them in cased you missed them - I challenge you to answer them with scripture to back your answers! And here are some points for you to consider: Before the cross: Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. Joh 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. After the cross: Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. And just in case you don't know what "IF" means: if/if/ Conjunction: Introducing a conditional clause. Noun: A condition or supposition: "there are so many ifs and buts in the policy". Synonyms: conjunction. whether - when - in case - supposing noun. condition if [ɪf] conj (subordinating) 1. in case that, or on condition that if you try hard it might work if he were poor, would you marry him? 2. used to introduce an indirect question. In this sense, if approaches the meaning of whether 3. even though an attractive if awkward girl 4. a. used to introduce expressions of desire, with only if I had only known b. used to introduce exclamations of surprise, dismay, etc. if this doesn't top everything! as if as it would be if; as though he treats me as if I were junior to him n 1. an uncertainty or doubt the big if is whether our plan will work at all 2. a condition or stipulation I won't have any ifs or buts [Old English gif; related to Old Saxon ef if, Old High German iba whether, if] So what is a conjunction: A Subordinating Conjunction (sometimes called a dependent word or subordinator) comes at the beginning of a Subordinate (or Dependent) Clause and establishes the relationship between the dependent clause and the rest of the sentence. It also turns the clause into something that depends on the rest of the sentence for its meaning.He took to the stage as though he had been preparing for this moment all his life. Because he loved acting, he refused to give up his dream of being in the movies. Unless we act now, all is lost. All this proves a condition on the part of the listener, believer, reciever - that being US. And here is why: Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. So that God can not ever be held accountable by man as He has given every posiible excape route for us to be saved from sin and death. CAN IT NOT BE ANY SIMPLER?!!!!!!!!!!!!
  7. Something even Adam and Eve had, or were they "predestined to sin? Was Moses predestined to kill the guard and thus "fulfill" his "destiny" David "predestined to kill Goliath? Or was it maybe that Eve CHOSE to disobey and Adam CHOSE to take responsibility? Did Moses not get angry and CHOOSE to kill? And David had, did he not have FAITH and CHOSE to stand up and take courage in his FAITH? Are we all automatons that have no choice in anything? Calvinism sounds very much like the eastern religions of destiny and fate where ones life is pre-written, very much like the eastern religion called Catholicism that it originated from.
  8. For years I could never understand why some believed that God was "picky" concerning who was going to be saved and then I realized that it was nothing more than man's need to be "special", "chosen", "set aside" and that they were usually people that had some serious sin in their lives and this "need" stemmed from their not being able to accept and understand God's unconditional forgiveness. May be wrong here, but this is the only way I can understand an untrue doctrine that teaches that some are better than others when all are equal in God's eyes and that equality means nothing more than ALL are sinners and need Christ.
  9. I did a exact word search and looked up "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus saves" and would you guess it - it's not found in the bible but we use it all the time. Would you call these a degradation of God's Word and refuse to say them? Or is this a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water? Typical of most IFB's to find something and stick to it like a tick on a dog. The term "eternal security" means just that - secure in the eternal grace of God who has given us eternal life through the blood of His son Jesus Christ. Rapture is another term not found in the bible - do you refuse that too?
  10. I am not denying that grace was part of it. But do you believe that the OT saints had eternal security? Were they eternally saved once off and unable to lose it? Or was it a works based salvation that needed continual sanctification by obeying the law and doing the sacrifices?
  11. Sorry all that I haven't replied yet, actually forgot I posted this what with all the other stuff going on. Thanks for the advice, got plenty of time but as we know, time flies faster the older you get and my most important concern now is the preparing for HS. The teaching from birth to 5 or so. never to young to start.
  12. Agreed and I think I know where Heb 11 is. And yes I am aware that the unsaved now are under the law. But what if Noah decided to stop building the Ark? He would have drowned with the rest of them but would he be in heaven? I am assured that no matter what my sin after salvation is I will still be seated with Christ in heaven as I am already seated in heavenly places with Christ. Were any of the great men of faith ASSURED salvation regardless of there actions after there initial act of faith that placed them in Heb 11? Unless of course these great men had a different covenant with God than the rest of their family and mankind. Was Noah assured ETERNAL salvation because he built the ark? Then why was he the first to build a sacrificial alter? Was Abraham assured ETERNAL salvation because he was prepared to sacrifice his son?
  13. Don't know if I believe this "grace before the cross" salvation of the OT saints. My bible reads LAW then GRACE. WORKS then FAITH. I can not find one instance, not one where the name of Jesus is mentioned in the OT so how could they call on His name when they didn't know it. He was slain before the foundation of the world because God lives outside/inside and is time. He was only slain in the flesh some 2000 yrs ago and it's the "slain in the SINLESS FLESH" that makes it a acceptable sacrifice to God.
  14. Agreed, but we forget John 17 and I reiterate my point that Peter and the other 10 disciples were protected until there conversion at Pentecost. They may not have been "saved" by the Blood, but they were definitely saved from falling away and protected by God. As good as saved IMHO. Possibly a "special dispensation" or "covenant" specifically for them. John 17: 1-19 KJV Jesus Prays to Be Glorified 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jesus Prays for His Disciples 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
  15. Has anyone stopped to think it might be as simple as salvation? IE: Believe = saved Worship = humility God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud (I know - He's been "resisting" me my whole life! ) To worship Him in any form is to humble ourselves and through consistent and heartfelt worship we die to our sinful nature and give more of ourselves wholly over to Him. I was curious to see the comments that would come about and it proves a theory I have - we try to hard to complicate God's Word and forget this: 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; I think we give ourselves too much credit for our "understanding" sound doctrine and forget that Jesus said: Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Children trust implicitly, explicitly and "worship" those they love - do we?
  16. I did not imply that Adam raised himself up as equal to God. Did God not create Adam as a companion? Was Adam not created in His image after His own likeness? Does this not imply that God CREATED Adam as an equal and I don't mean equal as in the same but as in the same as a husband and wife are equal yet not? Are we not the bride of Christ who is the "new Adam" (1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.) Is this not the same type of relationship? Is Christ not God? Go back and read your bible and you will see that Adam was created as higher than the angels and as more than your post implies. It is us who are in a fallen state but not after we are saved - then we are raised up from nothing to something. If Christ is equal to God and we are His Bride what does that make us? By His grace we are seated in heavenly places WITH Him. By His grace He created Adam in His image after His own likeness. So what does that make Adam - nothing?
  17. Thanks Calvary - that was as good as it gets - never saw it that way before.
  18. I didn't say footwashing represented that they were under grace HIS statement did so I will highlight it again: Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
  19. As my wife is now 4 months with our first I need to start prepping for homeschooling. As I work from home and am more suited to the task we have decided that I will be responsible for this and seeing that I wasn't the best kid at school all advice would be appreciated.
  20. Valid point. I agree. Peter wasn't saved under grace after the cross. But he was definitely under the "grace" of Christ. He "renounced" Christ three times and when the cock crowed he wept bitterly - Repentance? Remorse? What makes his sin any different to that of Judas - they both betrayed Christ in there own way. Both were warned that they would. Both "repented". Why is Peter's repentance recognized and Judases not? So were all the disciples except one under the grace of the Living Christ until there conversion at Pentecost? I believe so and I say this because of this: Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. This proves that they were "clean" in the eyes of Christ - all except Judas as we know. Like I keep on saying it is possible for a "christian" to not be saved (Judas) but it is also possible for a BELIEVER to live in sin, reject and renounce Christ and still be saved. It's upon Him and not us that we are saved and stay saved.
  21. God's need to be worshiped? This is a question I have been pondering for some time now and would appreciate some outside input (with scripture). Why must we worship God? Does He "need" it? Whose benefit is it for, His or ours? We are commanded to worship Him, but why? We look at a man or woman who needs the devotion of those around him and call them vain, egotistical, etc yet right through scripture we see God demanding that we worship Him. Adam was created as a companion to God if my understanding is correct. This would make him an "almost" equal? Was Adam created to worship God? I don't think so as I understand that the Angels were created to serve and worship Him and we are above them in Christ. As Adam was before his sin. So why the "need" for our worship? This may be a bit convoluted and I am not calling God vain here so feel free to correct me where needed.
  22. Trell is 100% right - the incorruptible seed spoken of in 1 Pet 1 is The Word preached to the CHURCH - that being Jesus Christ crucified and risen from the dead - salvation through grace. This is not the same seed spoken of in the parable - that was the LAW - Jesus was speaking to JEWS not the church as He was in MATHEW 7 that so many of you like to quote when stating that people can profess salvation and not be saved. Mat 7 has NOTHING to do with the church and those saved by grace! It's easy to take bible out of context to justify a personal opinion. Yes there are many "Christians" that are not saved, but there are just as many believers who are saved that live in continual sin through personal disobedience that WILL see eternity in heaven - it's NOT just a few hardcore IFB's that will be in heaven!! I am not pointing fingers here, but don't you think that our message would be better believed if we behaved as He did with charity as he did with the tax collectors and the whores and the "dogs" at the well - SINNERS all. DO you think that statements like "look at that "believer" sinning - was probably never saved to start with!" does any good to the message of servitude, humility, sacrifice, grace, love and charity that Jesus and His disciples AND Paul preached? Does it portray us as one of His own? It is impossible for us to renounce salvation as it it wasn't ours in the first place but we can, will and often do renounce God and isn't that the same thing? He is after all the AUTHOR of our salvation. Lets not forget Peter (Mat 26:69-75) or was he not saved in the first place either? I am reasonably sure that there was a IFB or two there that snickered and whispered "probably not saved in the first place" while they sat fat and content in the surety of their "sound doctrine" and ignored the agony of their own brothers and sisters struggle with daily sin because they were too "clean" to get dirty for Christ!!
  23. There is no reason for me to "calm down" when I am already calm. This is not the first time that I have seen this trend here nor I am sure the last. I stand by what I said and will every time I see this and I disagree with your statement - we will, can and are able to FULLY reject Christ even though saved and sealed with His Blood - the difference is HE will never reject us. Maybe we should stop looking to see if everyone else's profession of faith is REAL and look to our own. Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. So in line with the thread - Yes we can renounce our salvation, but this in no way diminishes, takes away or nullifies our salvation as it from God and not from us! It's like an unbeliever trying to sell his soul to the devil - ridiculous!!!! The devil already owns their souls (Mat 12:30). We are bought and paid for with a price - 1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. These very verses imply that they did not glorify God and had to be chastised into doing so - all sin is the same in God's eyes so why would "renouncing" be any different? We are bought for and are not our own and even if we did renounce God we can not give up what is not ours to give. So again, yes we can in the emptiness and futility of our own strength but our "renunciation" means nothing against the Grace of Christ.
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