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Everything posted by 2Tim215

  1. For years I could never understand why some believed that God was "picky" concerning who was going to be saved and then I realized that it was nothing more than man's need to be "special", "chosen", "set aside" and that they were usually people that had some serious sin in their lives and this "need" stemmed from their not being able to accept and understand God's unconditional forgiveness. May be wrong here, but this is the only way I can understand an untrue doctrine that teaches that some are better than others when all are equal in God's eyes and that equality means nothing more than ALL are sinners and need Christ.
  2. I did a exact word search and looked up "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus saves" and would you guess it - it's not found in the bible but we use it all the time. Would you call these a degradation of God's Word and refuse to say them? Or is this a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water? Typical of most IFB's to find something and stick to it like a tick on a dog. The term "eternal security" means just that - secure in the eternal grace of God who has given us eternal life through the blood of His son Jesus Christ. Rapture is another term not found in the bible - do you refuse that too?
  3. I am not denying that grace was part of it. But do you believe that the OT saints had eternal security? Were they eternally saved once off and unable to lose it? Or was it a works based salvation that needed continual sanctification by obeying the law and doing the sacrifices?
  4. Sorry all that I haven't replied yet, actually forgot I posted this what with all the other stuff going on. Thanks for the advice, got plenty of time but as we know, time flies faster the older you get and my most important concern now is the preparing for HS. The teaching from birth to 5 or so. never to young to start.
  5. Agreed and I think I know where Heb 11 is. And yes I am aware that the unsaved now are under the law. But what if Noah decided to stop building the Ark? He would have drowned with the rest of them but would he be in heaven? I am assured that no matter what my sin after salvation is I will still be seated with Christ in heaven as I am already seated in heavenly places with Christ. Were any of the great men of faith ASSURED salvation regardless of there actions after there initial act of faith that placed them in Heb 11? Unless of course these great men had a different covenant with God than the rest of their family and mankind. Was Noah assured ETERNAL salvation because he built the ark? Then why was he the first to build a sacrificial alter? Was Abraham assured ETERNAL salvation because he was prepared to sacrifice his son?
  6. Don't know if I believe this "grace before the cross" salvation of the OT saints. My bible reads LAW then GRACE. WORKS then FAITH. I can not find one instance, not one where the name of Jesus is mentioned in the OT so how could they call on His name when they didn't know it. He was slain before the foundation of the world because God lives outside/inside and is time. He was only slain in the flesh some 2000 yrs ago and it's the "slain in the SINLESS FLESH" that makes it a acceptable sacrifice to God.
  7. Agreed, but we forget John 17 and I reiterate my point that Peter and the other 10 disciples were protected until there conversion at Pentecost. They may not have been "saved" by the Blood, but they were definitely saved from falling away and protected by God. As good as saved IMHO. Possibly a "special dispensation" or "covenant" specifically for them. John 17: 1-19 KJV Jesus Prays to Be Glorified 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jesus Prays for His Disciples 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
  8. Has anyone stopped to think it might be as simple as salvation? IE: Believe = saved Worship = humility God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud (I know - He's been "resisting" me my whole life! ) To worship Him in any form is to humble ourselves and through consistent and heartfelt worship we die to our sinful nature and give more of ourselves wholly over to Him. I was curious to see the comments that would come about and it proves a theory I have - we try to hard to complicate God's Word and forget this: 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; I think we give ourselves too much credit for our "understanding" sound doctrine and forget that Jesus said: Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Children trust implicitly, explicitly and "worship" those they love - do we?
  9. I did not imply that Adam raised himself up as equal to God. Did God not create Adam as a companion? Was Adam not created in His image after His own likeness? Does this not imply that God CREATED Adam as an equal and I don't mean equal as in the same but as in the same as a husband and wife are equal yet not? Are we not the bride of Christ who is the "new Adam" (1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.) Is this not the same type of relationship? Is Christ not God? Go back and read your bible and you will see that Adam was created as higher than the angels and as more than your post implies. It is us who are in a fallen state but not after we are saved - then we are raised up from nothing to something. If Christ is equal to God and we are His Bride what does that make us? By His grace we are seated in heavenly places WITH Him. By His grace He created Adam in His image after His own likeness. So what does that make Adam - nothing?
  10. Thanks Calvary - that was as good as it gets - never saw it that way before.
  11. I didn't say footwashing represented that they were under grace HIS statement did so I will highlight it again: Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
  12. As my wife is now 4 months with our first I need to start prepping for homeschooling. As I work from home and am more suited to the task we have decided that I will be responsible for this and seeing that I wasn't the best kid at school all advice would be appreciated.
  13. Valid point. I agree. Peter wasn't saved under grace after the cross. But he was definitely under the "grace" of Christ. He "renounced" Christ three times and when the cock crowed he wept bitterly - Repentance? Remorse? What makes his sin any different to that of Judas - they both betrayed Christ in there own way. Both were warned that they would. Both "repented". Why is Peter's repentance recognized and Judases not? So were all the disciples except one under the grace of the Living Christ until there conversion at Pentecost? I believe so and I say this because of this: Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. This proves that they were "clean" in the eyes of Christ - all except Judas as we know. Like I keep on saying it is possible for a "christian" to not be saved (Judas) but it is also possible for a BELIEVER to live in sin, reject and renounce Christ and still be saved. It's upon Him and not us that we are saved and stay saved.
  14. God's need to be worshiped? This is a question I have been pondering for some time now and would appreciate some outside input (with scripture). Why must we worship God? Does He "need" it? Whose benefit is it for, His or ours? We are commanded to worship Him, but why? We look at a man or woman who needs the devotion of those around him and call them vain, egotistical, etc yet right through scripture we see God demanding that we worship Him. Adam was created as a companion to God if my understanding is correct. This would make him an "almost" equal? Was Adam created to worship God? I don't think so as I understand that the Angels were created to serve and worship Him and we are above them in Christ. As Adam was before his sin. So why the "need" for our worship? This may be a bit convoluted and I am not calling God vain here so feel free to correct me where needed.
  15. Trell is 100% right - the incorruptible seed spoken of in 1 Pet 1 is The Word preached to the CHURCH - that being Jesus Christ crucified and risen from the dead - salvation through grace. This is not the same seed spoken of in the parable - that was the LAW - Jesus was speaking to JEWS not the church as He was in MATHEW 7 that so many of you like to quote when stating that people can profess salvation and not be saved. Mat 7 has NOTHING to do with the church and those saved by grace! It's easy to take bible out of context to justify a personal opinion. Yes there are many "Christians" that are not saved, but there are just as many believers who are saved that live in continual sin through personal disobedience that WILL see eternity in heaven - it's NOT just a few hardcore IFB's that will be in heaven!! I am not pointing fingers here, but don't you think that our message would be better believed if we behaved as He did with charity as he did with the tax collectors and the whores and the "dogs" at the well - SINNERS all. DO you think that statements like "look at that "believer" sinning - was probably never saved to start with!" does any good to the message of servitude, humility, sacrifice, grace, love and charity that Jesus and His disciples AND Paul preached? Does it portray us as one of His own? It is impossible for us to renounce salvation as it it wasn't ours in the first place but we can, will and often do renounce God and isn't that the same thing? He is after all the AUTHOR of our salvation. Lets not forget Peter (Mat 26:69-75) or was he not saved in the first place either? I am reasonably sure that there was a IFB or two there that snickered and whispered "probably not saved in the first place" while they sat fat and content in the surety of their "sound doctrine" and ignored the agony of their own brothers and sisters struggle with daily sin because they were too "clean" to get dirty for Christ!!
  16. There is no reason for me to "calm down" when I am already calm. This is not the first time that I have seen this trend here nor I am sure the last. I stand by what I said and will every time I see this and I disagree with your statement - we will, can and are able to FULLY reject Christ even though saved and sealed with His Blood - the difference is HE will never reject us. Maybe we should stop looking to see if everyone else's profession of faith is REAL and look to our own. Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. So in line with the thread - Yes we can renounce our salvation, but this in no way diminishes, takes away or nullifies our salvation as it from God and not from us! It's like an unbeliever trying to sell his soul to the devil - ridiculous!!!! The devil already owns their souls (Mat 12:30). We are bought and paid for with a price - 1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. These very verses imply that they did not glorify God and had to be chastised into doing so - all sin is the same in God's eyes so why would "renouncing" be any different? We are bought for and are not our own and even if we did renounce God we can not give up what is not ours to give. So again, yes we can in the emptiness and futility of our own strength but our "renunciation" means nothing against the Grace of Christ.
  17. I am not condemning anyone. I did not make any statements at specific persons but rather at the general underling doctrine believed by some. And I said "arrogant statements" - This does not imply arrogance onto the testator but onto the STATEMENT. - so if you want quotes here they are. Show me those scriptures that state that they made a "profession" of faith. Many a saved believer has lost a loved one, been hurt, got cancer, etc etc and in anger and hurt "FULLY" rejected Christ in their hearts - this does not mean we have the right to judge them unsaved because we see the fruits from only a glimpse of there lives and not the whole story. I feel very strongly about this trend amongst many IFB's to judge a person unsaved like they would a book by it's cover without even taking the time to read the story. We can judge sin in a believers life, there fruit or lack thereof, there doctrine but where in the Word does it say we can blithely take God's place as Savior and condemn people unsaved by our words?
  18. I find it amazing how many of you are quick to state that a believer living in sin was never saved in the first place. The bible is very clear on salvation - believe on the finished work of Christ at the cross and you will be saved through His faith not yours. What you do with your life after that is your responsibility, NOT GOD'S. This "living in sin" however does not cause one to lose their salvation. Like the Pharisees you make your interpretation more important than God's simple truth. It's too simple, to easy for you to accept that God grace is greater than your sin. You will easily believe that His grace is enough for your pre-salvation sin, but not for any continual sin after salvation - this stinks of works not grace - of Calvinism. You make God small and petty and say things like "he must not have made a proper profession"; "he didn't believe enough"; "he was never TRULY saved" and " he was not filled with the spirit". You believe! Your salvation is not dependent on YOU but on GOD, not your sins past, present, continual or future, BUT ON GOD"S GRACE!!!!!!!~!!!!!!!! So stop using your own OPINION to explain a man/woman's struggle with sin - pray for them instead of condemning them with your arrogant statements as if you have the power of God to know a man's heart. If a person believes they are saved - they are not chosen to believe beforehand and can not take salvation doctrine from the gospels and always remember Acts Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
  19. You know they are getting "old" when they make statements like this :stirthepot:
  20. As an artist blacksmith and blade smith I can appreciate all things done by hand, especially the "old forgotten" crafts and I also have a thing for cast iron cookware - my wife threw my whole collection out when we first got married and being the young naive newly wed christian divorce was not an option - we laugh about now - but I was not amused at the time.
  21. Lets take a look at the scripture you provided. Vrs 8 - men praying, not woman Vrses 9-10 - woman "profess godliness" through good works and modesty - is this not a testimony? Is a woman's testimony not maybe a "silent" one through actions? Food for thought? Vrs 11-12 - Her silence is in conjunction with teaching and the context of the book is church leadership, doctrine and preaching - so her silence must be in context with those aspects only. Paul then goes on to explain why: 1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. Vrs 13 - Adam first, not Eve. Vrs 14 - Eve deceived, not Adam and this is important as Adam was NOT deceived - he knew the consequences and took the responsibility of her sin on himself - this is the same responsibility of the husband and father - he teaches and guides his wife and family in all things spiritual - he is the head of the home for this very reason. Vrs 15 though is one I am still working on as I do not believe a woman is saved only through child bearing only if they "continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety" Thoughts on this would be appreciated. So the answer would seem to be that any vocalization of a woman in a meeting is not acceptable besides that of praise as that is not once mentioned.
  22. Sorry Jerry, HIS presence not ITS. :boxing:
  23. Oh stop being sore! If everyone agreed with you who would you have to argue with? No one will EVER agree 60% on doctrine, let alone 100% - we tell you where we stand and you ALWAYS tell us where you stand - you don't see us complaining like a child that Johnny got the cake and Suzie didn't. That shows the attitude of a sore loser, a bully and a person that is not 100% behind there own convictions. If you were you would rest easy in the truth. Besides - you give us stuff to think about - it's our own responsibility to check the Word and see whose right - not yours.
  24. I think it's also and maybe only, a practical reason. Men are SUPPOSED to be logical while woman are more emotional. Though biblical spirituality has emotion it is good to note that the majority of God's Word is practical and sound doctrine is always practical. Practicality and logic go hand in hand and anyone making sound spiritual (biblical) decisions in any leadership role needs logic and practicality. This includes teaching God's Word. Leadership in any form can never be emotional. Emotional decisions are inevitably bad decisions (not always, but mostly). If one looks at the modern charismatic or denominational churches where woman lead one will always see a higher emotional content rather than a practical and logical biblical one. In this day and age where woman are regarded as equal in the home, the church and the work place we see "harder" woman taking on the roles of men. My wife is a nurse and as an artist I work from home - more often than not she brings in far more than I do and it is often commented upon by certain family members that I am the "wife" as these days "stay at home dads" are accepted as the norm and with job cuts, etc it is sadly often the case that men have to stay at home. Yet I am the leader of our household. I manage the finances, etc but we share all decision making though I have final say and I am blessed with a wife that very seldom says "I told you so!" I say all this because a lot of what Paul said concerning woman has been abused by men for selfish reasons and when we put aside our pride, self and personal feelings we will see that men and woman are equal in God's eyes and are just DIFFERENT with different roles to play, neither one less or inferior to the other. Men are just as prone to make emotional decisions as woman are - usually in anger and always in pride, men are just not supposed to be RULED by emotions as woman can be - we are the father, they the mother. We the law giver, they the care giver (and by law I mean spiritual law, not chauvinistic law) and the list goes on. It's when we reverse these roles that problems arise.
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