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Everything posted by 2Tim215

  1. Are you both "pearlites" living in sinless perfection?
  2. Exactly what I have been saying and to John, no it's not a false teaching - it's not a teaching at all, just something I choose to believe. Whether they are saved or protected or not accountable until a certain age I really do not know but I just choose to believe in His Mercy that has been evident throughout the Word and not only on the occasional example of his just and righteous wrath.
  3. Agreed John, but please point out where I said saved. I do not believe that babies nor children up to a certain age are saved by other means and no where did I say that. I am also not taking a single verse out of context and "creating" a doctrine. The whole passage speaks of unequaly yoked and equaly yoked marriages in the context of salvation so where does legitimacy come in? Paul speaks of having received a letter asking questions - we do not have that letter and he does not specify the questions so I must take the scripture at face value and not read anything into it - so "sanctified" and "holy" mean exactly what they are meant to mean in the context of salvation. So I state AGAIN - I believe that possibly the children of believers are PROTECTED by God's grace and mercy until they make there own choice. IOW - they are kept alive if there parents are walking in God's will. This is my personal belief based on what I understand. But if you & SFIC believe that all babies, fetuses and children are damned to hell then by all means do so. But I must say that the Calvinist camp is sounding far more attractive every minute with their belief that we have no say and that God chooses whom He will, then I don't have to worry about my unborn child not making it or not making a decision if they die before understanding the doctrine of salvation because God has already chosen and nothing I do nor say nor teach can change that. It's easy for you to say that I can not believe a child is protected, but the thing is, you nor SFIC don't know either.
  4. Once again you put words in my mouth so I will let you read it again - this time read slowly and pay attention - I will even highlight for you: Do you by chance see the word "saved"; "believer" or any such thing in that statement? By this I mean "kept safe" though this does fly in the face of many a believers child having died too young to make a conscious decision. Like I said - it's a difficult one that no one really knows the answer to and if there is one we don't always like it. So I will stick to this one even if it sounds foolish, just as you stick to your "Repent" in order to be saved. We all have our faults. And to keep the peace don't use this as an opening to do the whole repent thing again - it's been done to death already. :D
  5. Not a theory - 1 Cor 7:14 says the children of a saved parent are holy. I suppose this covers the "age of accountability" doctrine. As a young child the gospel was explained to me and I made a choice to accept Jesus as my savior, recommitted my life in my teens and was baptized, so no I do not base my salvation on that and I never stated that I did. I do however believe that the child of a believer is protected (covered by the faith of the parent if you will) until the time they can make there own decision. And just as God sees us through the blood of Christ and His faith, He sees our children through our faith. So just as Christ is responsible for the Church His bride and so the believing father responsible for his wife and children, if no father then the believing mother.
  6. All right. So we have two camps here. One that says God has made a condition for salvation and that condition is to believe and that this "choice" is available to all mankind. The other says God stops at some and passes on by others using comments like "irresistible grace"; "predestined"; "foreknew" and others to justify this doctrine. One says free will One says "God's will" Now if it's free will, then how do babies make a choice? Does God come speak baby gobbly gook that they understand and they make some baby gobbly gook decision to follow Christ? Or does God "foreknow" the baby's decision and decide for them? Those of us in the free will camp either ignore this question, believe in the "age of accountability" thing or say all those who have not decided on their own free will to follow Christ are in hell. Those in the "Calvinist" or "reformed whatsit" camp don't care, God's got His own and the rest can go to hell. So this is the God some of you serve: One who damns fetuses, babies, children, the autistic and those born brain damaged all to hell. (I am leaving out the ones who haven't heard because I understand and accept Romans) One who has made Himself the sacrifice for sin for ONLY those that hear, UNDERSTAND and believe with a complete understanding of the doctrine of salvation. The others serve a God that like I said just doesn't care, He's already done His pick and choose thing and we have no will in the matter. Come on people, even the Jews understand that the parents are accountable for the child until a certain age - bat mitzvah! I choose to believe the Word and the Word tells me that though God is vengeful and righteously ruthless at times He is also FAR MORE of the following: Just Compassionate Long suffering Merciful Holy Righteous Self sacrificing (Jesus for those that don't know) And He knows what He's doing. So just because I don't know and HE hasn't made it clear I will stick to what He has told me: And I don't care what "some" have preached or "commentaries" say I follow the WORD of God - KJV AV and it says "NOW ARE THEY HOLY" - it doesn't say legitimate, they would have used that word if that's what they meant - IT SAYS HOLY!!!! So if you are a KJV believing believer then stand your ground, ignore what the preacher says, the commentaries say and HEED the Word and it says they are holy and sanctified through the faith of the parent just as we are sanctified through the faith of Christ. The passage context is salvation, not illegitimate children. It's married believers and unbelievers, not the unmarried.
  7. Not sure I agree with you on this one John - sanctified is sanctified - meaning "Made or declared or believed to be holy; devoted to a deity or some religious ceremony or use" and Holy is Holy and we all know what that means and if the verse states "(1Co 7:14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." It says what it says, no hidden meanings or ambiguities. It is a difficult one that God has chosen not to make clear as much as some doctrines and truths are made clear in the Word. I just choose to believe that we don't know everything and can not make a conclusion until we are 100% sure but until I get to heaven and find out that babies are in hell like the Catholics believe I will stand on God's mercy regarding this one.
  8. What in the above statement did you not understand? You have an amazing knack of taking peoples posts and twisting them. No where did I state that any were innocent of sin - the term referred to unaccountable by adult standards not biblical. Besides, I have yet to find in the Word where it says that children are accountable and held guilty of sin and though it does say that we are all born in sin it also says this: Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And this: 1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. - Sanctified through the faith of the parent! A DIFFERENT SALVATION FOR CHILDREN that are not yet of an age to understand the doctrine of salvation - prove otherwise! Explain that? And back to topic: 1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. What about the words EVERY MAN and EVERY ONE do they not understand? Verse in context to salvation - read the whole chapter!
  9. I have listened to that a few times. He does teach that this is possible, yet admits it's unattainable while still in this body.One has to listen to it a few times to see this - it's about sinning less the more you submit to God's Word and His Spirit.
  10. I was waiting for someone to bring up this point. You could also use the flood as an example. Many "innocents" died there too. By innocents I refer to children. You will note that I stated that God's character throughout the ENTIRE bible reflects His mercy and does so far more than it reflects His wrath.Yes we do see a wrathful, jealous and vengeful God when it comes to sin. Note that God does not command that the children be put to death in Hosea, He just states that they will be - this is the nature of war. Some believe in the "age of accountability" for children, but like I said in my earlier post, it's a difficult one and the Word does not give an exact reference to children and how accountable they are. As much as I fear and respect God's wrath, I believe in His long suffering and mercy. But back to topic - The CONDITION for salvation is the recipients BELIEVING in the finished work of Christ. God put grace in place so that none could boast on their own strength and He put the condition in place so that none would have an excuse. We must steer clear of those that would use a few verses to try and subjugate the entire Word of God when the entire Word of God attests to mans ability to make his own choices and bear the consequences thereof.
  11. Any one here heard of the Pearls? Mike and Debbie Pearl at No greater Joy?
  12. Amazing how they can take scripture where Jesus is speaking to JEWS and then try and apply it the CHURCH!! Everything that Jesus said there was to fulfill the prophecy that the Jews would not know Him when He came. Yes it IS ONLY GOD that draws man to Christ, but not as you try to imply that God only draws His own. It is through the CROSS, the life, death and resurrection of Christ that is the GOSPEL, that God has used to draw ALL men to Him who will BELIEVE. That is why it is through the FOOLISHNESS of PREACHING that man is made aware that his sin separates him from God and he is in need of a savior. Romans makes it clear that ALL know right and wrong, but they do not know that there "right" can never be good enough and there "wrong" separates them from God. Preaching makes them aware, gives them the ability to make an informed decision based on TRUTH so that they may have no excuse. This doctrine of "irresistible grace" or "predestined election" is of the devil and no matter how hard you look you will NEVER find it in the bible.
  13. It's a difficult one. But Romans makes it very clear that in one way or another God has revealed Himself to man. Creation itself affirms the presence of a Creator regardless of what National Pornographic tries to prove otherwise. I personally believe that even though we live under the dispensation (covenant to some) of grace and the cross, there will be those who have never heard of God or Christ that will be judged by the law that is in the heart of EVERY created being. If one does a study of anthropology and theosophical anthropology (study of the origin of beliefs within cultures) one will always see that they have laws of right and wrong that they attempt to abide by and this is the case regardless of race, culture or creed. The how God will judge these that have never heard is something we can not know now. But we do know He is a merciful God who gave us Himself in the form of His son to die for us and there are many cases in the OT and when Christ walked as a man where those outside the Jewish belief showed a goodness of heart and a depth of faith in what was right that were granted mercy - the woman at the well being one example. The Law came after Noah yet he was regarded as a righteous man. The method of God's saving grace has not always been the same and we would do well not to put Him in a box because our lack of knowledge and understanding. I am not saying that there are more ways to heaven than Jesus. I am saying that the knowledge of God the Creator and His Law is in the heart of every living person from birth and one only needs to see children push their boundaries to see that even a two year old knows right and wrong. I emphasize knows here because they know but do not yet understand. Remember the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - eating of the fruit opened there eyes? What were their eyes opened to? The knowledge of good and evil and this knowledge was an understanding of good and evil, before this understanding they were as babes. I wonder sometimes that although we are "born" in sin because of Adam that the guilt of that sin is only imparted onto us when we UNDERSTAND what right and wrong is. If not then every child born to die a baby is in hell, every aborted fetus in hell and from what I see of God's character throughout the ENTIRE bible shows a God of mercy that searches the heart of every man and judges according to accountability. Like I said, it's a difficult one and sometimes all we can say is "I don't know".
  14. Troll? More like a nutty warlock with too much D&D games.
  15. I might get flack for this but I believe that this type of thing must be exposed and brought into the "light" Sent to me from "Lion of God" today and I wonder if I am the only one who got this? Sent Today, 08:53 AM I know you love the Lord Jesus so much that you like I, want them who is going to bless the Lord Jesus the most with the blessings they have, so much that this will be acceptable to you as it is with me. So I sent you this so as you would know what happened to you. So you can praise the Lord for it as you see this come to pass. Lord Jesus the Christ, I petition thee to grant me this request. I request that if this person using this screen name "2Tim215" on this web site, loves you more than I. Take all of the curses and all of the afflictions that are on their mind, heart and soul and all their life and put them upon me. Take all the blessings that God your Father has given to me and give them all to this person using the screen name "2Tim215" on this web site and all their love ones. But Lord Jesus, If I love you more than this person, using this screen name "2Tim215 " on this web site. Take all of the curses and afflictions that are on my mind, heart and soul and all my life and put them on them and their love ones. Take all the blessings that God your Father has given to this person using the screen name "2Tim215" on this web site and all their love ones, and give them all to me. amen. The Lord giveth the Lord taketh away blessed be the name of the Lord. amen THIS IS WITCHCRAFT!!!!!!!!
  16. What everyone forgets here is Paul is only doing what he preached. That is: Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. How could he do any less when his Savior did the same thing: Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. Both knew what lay ahead and both had a CHOICE and both decided on there own to do God's will. We should not look at this a warning not to go but rather as a revelation of what was to be with the decision left in Paul's hands. I think Paul knew the will of God in this and his companions acted out of fear and doubt and lack of faith. Many of us do the same and rant at a "cruel" God that leads his people into suffering and death and don't trust that He knows whats best. Maybe we should all learn to be content as Paul teaches and trust as he did. To sacrifice as Christ did and KNOW that God knows best.
  17. If the question is did Paul ever sin in his life after seeing the Risen Christ, then yes, he did. Take for example 2 Cor 12. Paul speaks of the thorn in the flesh. I was always taught that this was a physical ailment or weakness he had to deal with, but on deeper study have to wonder if this common teaching is correct. When we speak of grace we usually know it concerns salvation and that salvation is us being freed from sin in Christ. So grace most often coincides with sin in our lives. Paul in the opening of the chapter speaks of glorifying oneself and that "lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." He IMHO was struggling with the sin of pride and self glorification here over his fellow believers because of his special dispensation and position as a servant to Christ. Pride is not always a physical sin of action but more often a mental and one of the heart, so did he physically sin here? Possibly, maybe not but I think he did in his heart and mind and was reminded that God's grace is sufficient ALWAYS and greater than any sin we might have.
  18. True, but the agenda of "Irresistible Grace", etc will be pushed every time there is an opening. The bible is the whole truth and must be taken in it's entirety, I never believe those who use it to push a single doctrine. And if one reads it in it's entirety one will see that regeneration is always after salvation not before, that's why it's been called "born again" Unless we "gestate" for 9 months while He regenerates us and then are born again. But seeing as this is now lets get .
  19. Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
  20. If you are saying that God works in the hearts of men to lead them to Him, then I agree. BUT I do not believe that it is only the hearts of certain "chosen" people that God decides to work with. He works in the hearts of EVERY humane being ever born through the glory of creation, His Word, His messengers, etc (read Romans) but we have the God given ability to choose to listen or not, to believe or not, to follow or not and to obey or not.
  21. It's all very well and good to say - But you will note that I asked some questions too - have underlined them in cased you missed them - I challenge you to answer them with scripture to back your answers! And here are some points for you to consider: Before the cross: Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. Joh 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. After the cross: Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. And just in case you don't know what "IF" means: if/if/ Conjunction: Introducing a conditional clause. Noun: A condition or supposition: "there are so many ifs and buts in the policy". Synonyms: conjunction. whether - when - in case - supposing noun. condition if [ɪf] conj (subordinating) 1. in case that, or on condition that if you try hard it might work if he were poor, would you marry him? 2. used to introduce an indirect question. In this sense, if approaches the meaning of whether 3. even though an attractive if awkward girl 4. a. used to introduce expressions of desire, with only if I had only known b. used to introduce exclamations of surprise, dismay, etc. if this doesn't top everything! as if as it would be if; as though he treats me as if I were junior to him n 1. an uncertainty or doubt the big if is whether our plan will work at all 2. a condition or stipulation I won't have any ifs or buts [Old English gif; related to Old Saxon ef if, Old High German iba whether, if] So what is a conjunction: A Subordinating Conjunction (sometimes called a dependent word or subordinator) comes at the beginning of a Subordinate (or Dependent) Clause and establishes the relationship between the dependent clause and the rest of the sentence. It also turns the clause into something that depends on the rest of the sentence for its meaning.He took to the stage as though he had been preparing for this moment all his life. Because he loved acting, he refused to give up his dream of being in the movies. Unless we act now, all is lost. All this proves a condition on the part of the listener, believer, reciever - that being US. And here is why: Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. So that God can not ever be held accountable by man as He has given every posiible excape route for us to be saved from sin and death. CAN IT NOT BE ANY SIMPLER?!!!!!!!!!!!!
  22. Something even Adam and Eve had, or were they "predestined to sin? Was Moses predestined to kill the guard and thus "fulfill" his "destiny" David "predestined to kill Goliath? Or was it maybe that Eve CHOSE to disobey and Adam CHOSE to take responsibility? Did Moses not get angry and CHOOSE to kill? And David had, did he not have FAITH and CHOSE to stand up and take courage in his FAITH? Are we all automatons that have no choice in anything? Calvinism sounds very much like the eastern religions of destiny and fate where ones life is pre-written, very much like the eastern religion called Catholicism that it originated from.
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