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2Tim215

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Everything posted by 2Tim215

  1. I've seen a few bricks fly faster than a thoroughbred, and have just recently met someone as thick as one.
  2. You may call me a liar, but in almost every post I have quoted scripture whilst you have quoted almost nothing. The scripture says it, you won't believe it - so YOU are calling God a liar, not me.
  3. I understand where you are coming from. What is the point you ask. A man may rape and murder and be saved. Once saved, is he any less guilty of rape and murder? What if after he is saved he murders and rapes again, just once? Not for 10yrs, 20 or even 30yrs - just once and he "repents" - is he any less guilty? The answer is no. He is guilty of rape and murder. Now which is worse - being a drunkard for 30 yrs, or killing and raping only once after being saved. The answer is neither. In the eyes of God they are the same. If I sleep around behind my wife's back for 40 yrs and another man sexually abuses his own child and both of us are unsaved, in the eyes of the world I am normal, yet the other is evil even in today's sick standards. Yet if both of us are saved and do this, we are both equally guilty in God's eyes. Whether you are a liar, a thief, a murderer, a cheat it is all the same to God. So how can a saved person who is eternally saved go to hell if he sins? He can't. All sin is the same to God, that is why He says He will remember them no more. Once saved, God does not "see" your sin, He sees the Blood of Christ that covers you. So I must ask: do you believe in eternal salvation? You say you were in prison. You committed a crime and payed the time required. If you go and commit the crime again you will have to serve the time again if caught - that is the way of the worlds law. Yet you see salvation the same way. You lived a life of sin. You repented or paid the price, so you repented. God was merciful. Now if you live the same sin again you must repent in order not to have to pay the price again. That is WORKS, not GRACE. Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
  4. SFIC, I do not believe that any one here is of the opinion that a saved believer need not try every second of every day to overcome through Christ sin in there lives, and to place God first in all they do and say. This thread is starting to become very aggressive and I apologize for any inflammatory remarks that I have made but have to point this out to you: You ask in the above quote "They don't have to give up their sins? Just what is bringing them to Christ?" Well, here is your answer: 1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. I really do not know how it can be more clearer than that? Or This: Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
  5. That's really sad that you place your trust in man and believe that your brother is in hell. My father was an alcoholic and much more. Was born an alcoholic, lived an alcoholic and died an alcoholic. Yet he was saved. He BELIEVED on the Lord Jesus Christ as his savior. Made a profession of faith. Understood that it was only through the BLOOD that he was saved and not by works. I know that God's Word is true and although he died an addict he now lives in Christ free, saved for all eternity. My faith is in the atoning BLOOD, not the works of man. Please take the time to find the post where I said exactly that, you know, the ""live as he pleases" AFTER salvation" bit you love to state but can not quote me stating.
  6. No one ever said that a person can live in sin INDEFINITELY without CONSEQUENCES - but we did state that to be saved one need not repent of ones sins before hand in order to be saved. Also, that no one has the right to call someone unsaved if there is no fruit in there live at a particular moment. But I see now that for you it is OKAY to BACKSLIDE. I must ask - In your Book Of Opinions - how long can a person "backslide" before they can be regarded as unsaved? Is backsliding regarded as less sin than normal sin?
  7. Yep Rick, That's what they are saying. And if you did not repent of your sins you were never saved.
  8. Good one. I wonder how long "holding on" is according to his opinion? Is it one sin? Two? Where does it stop? How long between David's first glimpse and the death of Uriah? one day? one week? one year? How many nights of lust and planning, of holding sin close in his heart? Did he not know he was sinning? Did he really believe it was his right as king to defile another mans wife and then kill him because she was with his child? I think not. In fact, David had become so cold and calculating in his sin and attempt to cover it up, that Nathan had to tell him in a round about way to make him see it. So how long can a saved person sin before a self righteous "christian" has the right to judge him unsaved?
  9. You are of very strong opinions, yet have as yet to quote scripture to back up your statements. I would like to see you go through all the posts and quote KJV1611 where he stated EXACTLY "that it is not God's will for us to turn from sin". I am sure that you will find that you are either twisting his words or quoting wrong. You are very quick to condemn and state everyone else as wrong. Really glad I am not a member of your church. King David may have repented when confronted by Nathan, but did he send his harem home, or remove all the false god temples from the high places that his many "wives" worshiped? Repentance is a continual turning from sin as in Davids case. Maybe, according to your doctrine, David and I can discuss it when I get to Hell one day. Because surely with all his sin he must be there. Oh, I forgot. The bible says he was a man after God's own heart, should I ask what you are implying?
  10. I think there's only two Christians going to heaven. The rest of us who have occasionally sinned are gonna BURN!!!
  11. No where have I sated that "repentance, which is a directional change of the heart" is unbiblical. I just happen to believe as KJV1611 does that it it is from unbelief to belief. I can find nowhere in the bible that a person must seek forgiveness of sins from the Lord FIRST in order to be saved or that one must turn from sin on ones own strength before God will save them or else this is a lie: Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Do you believe that a person that is not baptized is going to hell? That without the full immersion in water the salvation is "incomplete"? Because the bibles says: Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. I believe in dispational doctrine because it is clearly evident throughout the Word that God deals differently with man at differing times.Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. There is no such thing as far as I know such as "dispensational salvation". Before Christ it was through works and the sacrificial atonement. Yes faith was a part of it, but it was not by faith alone as in the new testament after Christ. He is the sacrificial atonement for us now. And we see that in Act 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" that any who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved - no repentance, no baptism. Yet later in the same chapter Peter says : Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Does this contradict his first statement? No, because further in Acts we see this: Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. Dissent amongst the brethren concerning the manner of salvation:Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. Now they argue the question - is salvation based on works, works and faith or just faith alone:Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. God's plan is for mankind is now revealed: Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; Act 15:9 And put no differencebetween us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. He then asks them why do they want to enslave us all to works and the law again: Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? And now comes the crunch, the punch line, the finale say - Peter now tells them the way of salvation = Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Later in ch 15 they decide to go their seperate ways and teach this "new" doctrine: Acts15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. And then in Acts 16 we see Paul telling the jailer how to be saved after he was thrown in jail because a woman possesed of a spirit warned all the people that this man Paul knew the way of salvation: Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And Paul says: Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. If you can not see how it changes over the course of the passages and the Word itself can not convince you then I can not either. If you can not see how God changes in His dealings with man over the course of the ages and at certain times reveals only a part of His plan to man then I can not show you either. God's end plan for salvation is revealed throughout the bible in the form of Jesus Christ and His sacrificial atonment on the cross. The Jews refused to see it and God gave it also to the Gentiles:Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. We are taught in dispensation doctrine to "rightly divide the Word of thruth" (2Tim 2:15), to not take scripture out of context and create our own doctrines as God dealt differently with the Jews compared to how He dealt with the gentiles. The Word is not stagnant nor static and neither is God. It is a history of God's dealing with man and changes as God's full plan is revealed. We know that God is constant but we also that God has not revealed all to us and as such we can see that how God dealt with those of the OT is not the same as how He deals with us now - That is dispensational doctrine - that in different dispensations (ages) God has dealt with man differently and like the charismatic prosperity preachers take a verse like Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. .and use it as the foundation of there prosperity Gospel by putting in "to prosper you" we can not and must not take the Word and change it nor take it out of context because any one who studies the Word knows that God was speaking to the nation of Israel through His prophet Jeremiah there and not to us and therefore it is not a promise to us. We are promised this: 2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. KJV1611 - Like I said - we are taught to: 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. So take the Word literally to mean what is says as in the below verse saved does not mean spiritually. Act 27:20 And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope that we should be saved was then taken away. Act 27:31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.
  12. Not once have I stated that repentance is not man turning from sin nor have I EVER stated that one does not need to repent!! KJV1611 and I have always made long posts with plenty of scripture where as you have only made short comments with little or no scripture to back what you say. I emphasize again - SALVATION IS NOT BASED ON WORKS AND THEREFORE MAN CAN NOT REPENT IN ORDER TO BE SAVED!!! Repentance is after salvation and is IFB doctrine. I believe in dispensational doctrine as taught by The Bible Doctrine Institute founded by the late Dr. James A. Lince and presided over by Dr. David L. Peacock, the Pastor of Bible Believer's Baptist Church. Therefore most of the scripture posted in respect to "repent and be saved" quoted from you guys is out of dispensation, out of context and not applicable to the gentile. Sadly, that's all they seem to believe. Exactly what we have been trying to say the entire time.. Calvinist doctrine teaches repentance IN ORDER to be saved - it's a works based salvation based on the need for man to "repent" before God will save him. So not an assumption nor an accusation on my side considering the comments directed towards myself and KJV1611. I am not hung up nor misguided on repentance. I understand exactly what it means and think that maybe you should read the entire thread before making such an assumption. I do not believe either of us are leaving because we want to, only because it's pointless if we are going to lambasted all the time for the truth. The truth being that repentance is not a PREREQUISITE for salvation. I know I always consider that I might be misinterpreting - do YOU? In the above statement you re affirm all we have been saying the whole time "When the unsaved repents, he turns from sin and to God." But no where do you have to REPENT OF YOUR SINS in order to be saved - that is "LORDSHIP SALVATION" as taught by Ray Comfort and John McArthur (who by the way are Calvinist in doctrine) - not by the Bible, so I am glad your doctrine is above my head, else my salvation would be based on works and not grace through faith. If you are so sure of yourself then find one quote where either myself or KJV1611 said that anyone thinks they are pleasing the Lord while living in sin, willful or unknown!!! I have always stated that just because a person happens "to be living like the devil" (your term, not mine) it DOES NOT mean that they are unsaved and that we should never judge them to be unsaved because we don't know, only God knows.
  13. I apologizes to all if I come across offensive in any way or cause hurt with any of the scriptures quoted. The Word says it and I believe it. I can do nothing else but believe what it tells me in the most simplistic terms as quoted in bold black above. Not twisted nor incorrectly interpreted. Not false doctrine or theology, but God's Word. I did not come to this forum to cause anger, hurt or dissent and was unaware that the predominant doctrine here was based on one man - Calvin. I assumed being IFB that you would all hold to the fundamentals of the faith. Again - sorry. This will be my last post here.
  14. Who are you angry with, me for the truth, God for just maybe saving your brother or your self for your self righteous arrogance that place your opinions above God's Word? 1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. Now how can I twist that? Or this? Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Noted Linda: changed to black - hope you get well soon.
  15. Who are you trusting for your salvation? Your brother or Jesus Christ? His actions or the Word? The Word: 1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. 2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. And this is my message to all of you and I wipe my hands clean of you - This is NOT my interpretation but The Living Word of God: Act 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
  16. And your theology and that of those in disagreement seem to state that all "saved" people in your doctrine live holy lives in perfect obedience IE: sinless perfection!! What part of "1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." do you not understand? and if at any time you or any one for that matter has had a evil thought is then guilty of the whole law - Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Have any one of you ever done anything that was not good after "repentance"? So explain then - Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. From the tone of some of the comments there are some that are respecter of persons here so explain Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. So according to the Word of God you are ALL guilty of sin after your "repentance" and as such according to your theology and doctrine are destined to hell!! So let me answer your question concerning: Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? You should read the whole chapter 6 you quoted and the do a study of the book Romans and not take a verse out of context. Because Paul goes on to say - Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. and then to say - Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. And right throughout the chapter he explains that we are now "spiritually" dead to sin - that is why we are "born again". Though we still have to live in this flesh that is under the law - we (our spirit and soul) is free through Christ. That our inward man delights in the law of God but the flesh strives against it in sin. Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? That we who are in Christ are dead to sin and it no longer has dominion over us in the sense that we now can refuse to give in to it Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. That we must not let it rule us Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Because we are under grace Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. And as such have eternal life Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. And that there is now no condemnation to those in Christ even though Paul in the flesh served sin yet served the Lord with the mind Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. And the the beginning of chapter 8 goes on to explain how now that we are dead to sin through Christ can and must now subjugate sin in the flesh and not let it rules us, though we still live in the flesh and at times will fall, we are no longer condemned by it. Not once did I say that someone with a mindset that they can do as the pleased is saved or unsaved. My argument has always been: Who gives YOU or anyone else the right to judge someone that has been dragged down by life or habitual sin and categorize them as unsaved and going to hell only because what you see from there outward man is sin and have no idea the war within. Only God knows who is and isn't saved. Quick to condemn, quick to judge and quick to use one or two scriptures and not the entire message in context to support a viewpoint. Need I say more. I think not and rest my case.
  17. I agree, it is not a believe on Jesus only and be saved doctrine. It's a believe with complete understanding (heart, mind, body, soul) that He is the only way to the Father. That He died for you and the WHY He died for you. Repentance comes after salvation not before. How can one repent before the fact? It is only after salvation that through the Holy Spirit and the Word that we truly are aware of how sin separated us from God. Before salvation we only have an intellectual understanding of sin and how it separates us. How can any man repent of sin spiritually before salvation when he is dead in sin? The flesh can not repent and be saved as this body will physically die in sin. It is the soul that is saved and circumcised through Christ at salvation not the body. It is the soul that is eternally saved. And now because the spirit is quickened through Christ we are AWARE of sin in the flesh and must then repent of it. Repentance is an ongoing action until we die in the flesh, but the soul is no longer accountable as it is separated (circumcised) through Christ and seated in heavenly places. Do not make assumptions based on nothing just because you don't like nor understand what "these fellas " are trying to say. I have been IFB for 25+ years and have studied for my bachelor of divinity through a respected IFB college in the USA. Just because your doctrine is based on Calvinism and mine is not doesn't make me any less saved than you. Salvation is based on faith and we hope as Paul and the rest did in eternal salvation (Tit 3:7; Tit1:2; Gal 5:5) and what makes yours based on the doctrine of men any better than mine based on the Word of God? Not once have I intentionally mocked or ridiculed any of you but myself and KJV1611 have been called reprobates, unsaved and other things. Is this the the reaction of saved believers? I think not according to the following scripture: 2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; Salvation needs to be understood in the mind, accepted in the heart and believed by the action of confessing Christ as Lord. And I would rather base my salvation on the Word of God any day over the doctrine of men!!
  18. Thanks for the offer but I prefer to take the truth from the Word, not some mans interpretation.
  19. KJV1611AV What explains yours. Oh, don't get me wrong. I understand the need to feel "chosen" (pride?), the need to repent in order to be saved (why would you need to repent if you have already been chosen?) and the fact that because you are chosen God "decided" to change your rotten lifestyle into a holy one - takes away all the responsibility to have to live one doesn't it? God must not have chosen me because I believe that I am saved because of His righteousness and grace and for His glory not mine. And that I have a responsibility to now live a holy life as we are commanded to (1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be (personal action maybe?) ye holy; for I am holy.) Not to sit back and expect change and fruit and holy living to come from God as is my right, but to "run the race" and to work at living a holy life (Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.) My works after salvation bring Glory to God as it is only through obedience to Him that I am able to live holy - His grace is made manifest for the world to see when a sinner chooses to obey rather than it being my right as one chosen. This will be my last post on the topic. 2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. But advise you to: 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Because: 2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. And to point out that: 2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. We need to "depart from in iniquity" and "purge" ourselves to be "prepared unto every good work" regardless of what vessel you are, not sit back and expect change as your right as one "chosen". That these are all actions of obedience on our part, and if we do them then He sanctifies us and makes us a vessel of honor. And finally that we are to: 2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
  20. I know, didn't have space But I did note this: Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. Actions on our part and Paul exhorting them to do so - But didn't see any mention of repentance.
  21. Below are all the scriptures you posted and I find it strange that the one thing this discussion is all about is - is repentance a prerequisite for salvation - and you will note that you quoted Eph 2: 8+9 - clearly states by faith alone and not by works - no mention of repentance there. And every other verse quoted concerning how we live after salvation has an action required on our part (highlighted red), so basically you confirm with the scriptures you provide my point. My point is we do not need to repent to be saved - only believe and the fruit and change in our lives is reliant on our actions but could never come about without God in our lives - He gives us the ability to change and bear fruit - yet it is our choice in the end to obey Him and allow Him to "renew our minds" and change our hearts. Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Out of context and not applicable to the gentiles - Jesus was speaking to the Jews here - salvation through His death and resurrection had not yet come about - everything was still by works. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. You forgott - 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. And we know that the judgment seat of Christ is for believers only, so explain the "good or bad" Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent ( meaning turnabout) and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance( the "meet" meaning worthy of their decision to turn about). 1Th 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
  22. No point in stating something without stating who (I assume you imply the two newbies - myself included) or give scripture to base why they are unbiblical. The whole point of a forum is to discuss and learn and as yet no one has given clear scripture to base their doctrines and all I have seen so far is opinion.
  23. No, you are right, no one did say that Paul was not saved, but the implication that a believer living in sin will not make it to heaven does. And yes, salvation is a definitely not a license to sin but we are eternally saved - the bible is very clear on that. So how can a person who is eternally saved not go to heaven if they continue to live in sin? Oh and by the way, the bible does teach that a born again Christian can live as he/she please and still make it to heaven. Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Though this does not give reason to live a life of sin and disobedience it is very clear that it is possible because the grace mentioned is the same grace that saves. Paul continues in the chapter to give the reasons why we should no longer live lives controlled by sin and how we are now free from sin. We know that God is our father and I ask, would any humane father disown his child because he went off for a while and lived with the pigs? Yet God loves us more than any humane father could. And note the "grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" in vrs 21. The righteousness being that of Christ and not our own.
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