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Nathaniel

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  1. Thanks
    Nathaniel got a reaction from 2Tim215 in Calvinism on the March   
    I agree it can get pretty close.. If taken in the wrong direction... As I quote "I'm just now (hopefully by God's grace) coming out of the legalism I fell into." "(Then I fell again into fruit seeking... :/)"
    As if I have not these fruits/preserve enough one can have no assurance. Which isn't biblical IMO. (If I have them they aren't perfect.. So they have sin as well. In which case what differ they from any other unsaved person's works? :/ God requires perfection so we can't lose sight of it.. (Ps 130:3) If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? My fruit won't and will never pass this test.. So I can't use it at all to see if I am in Christ or no.. If one does "check fruit to make sure they are in Christ" They look to their fruit (as a new law) and not to Christ. And if they see the sin therein they are condemned and that pains of hell gets hold upon them (Unless they lower the standard of holiness...) bringing them into bondage.. Then one goes around to produce more or better fruits (and seek to be made perfect by the flesh (whether they say By grace I do it! or not.) Which worsens their state even to feeling hell over them every moment like unto eternal death on earth.) Then they fall hopefully enough to go to Christ.. (Phil 3:8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,

    ___________

    Can a Christian continue in sin?



    (Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

    No.

    (Rom 6:2) By no means. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    (Rom 6:3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    (Rom 6:4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    (Rom 7:6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

    (Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    (Gal 5:6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
    (Gal 6:15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

    (Rom 6:5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
    (Rom 6:6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    (Rom 6:7) For he that is dead is freed [in Greek: justified] from sin.
    (Rom 6:8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

    This is full assurance (As Abraham in Rom 4 and John 3:16)

    (Rom 10:6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]; )
    (Rom 10:7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

    To doubt your salvation is to do this.. :/ though thankfully there is forgiveness with God that he may be feared.

    (Rom 10:8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    (Rom 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    (Rom 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    (Rom 10:11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.)

    (Rom 6:9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
    (Rom 6:10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
    (Rom 6:11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Sin has no more dominion over me because it has no more power over me (The law is fulfilled and I died and now live [and am complete] in Christ.) Therefore in that faith I can bring forth fruit. ((John 15:5) I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.) Fruit isn't only huge deeds (which one should do too.) But, fruit is whatever I do by faith in Christ. (1Cor 10:31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.)

    (Gal 2:20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    We are dead (Justified from all sin) and alive unto God through Jesus

    (Rom 6:12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    Therefore let us not sin seeing what great things he has done for us..

    (Gal 5:6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

    (Rom 6:13) Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
    (Rom 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    Sin shall not have dominion because sin cannot hurt us any longer. We are no longer debtors to the law. Christ has fully atoned. We are now fully justified by grace alone.

    (Rom 8:12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

    (Gal 4:22) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
    (Gal 4:23) But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
    (Gal 4:24) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

    We are no longer debtors to live after the flesh (the righteousness which comes from the law.)

    (Rom 8:13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    (Rom 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
    (Rom 3:21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    (Rom 3:22) Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    (Gal 5:18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Faith is one of the works of the Spirit, if we walk by faith which worketh by love and not by sight (works); we will live.

    (Rom 8:14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    (Rom 8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

    (Rom 6:15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? by no means.

    What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace because sin is not imputed where there is no law and we no longer have the sin imputed by Adam? by no means

    (Rom 6:16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of abounding offenses Under dominion/bondage to the law to death or abounding offenses to obedience to the faith unto the righteousness of Christ?

    (Rom 1:5) By whom we have received grace and apostleship, to the obedience of faith among all nations, for his name:

    (Rom 5:16) And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

    (Rom 6:17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

    Hence my comment above.

    (Rom 6:18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Free from our old husband the law and now being reconciled and justified we can serve Christ being clothed in his righteousness.

    (Rom 6:19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
    (Rom 6:20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

    We had no righteousness at all because without faith it is impossible to please God.

    (Rom 6:21) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.

    Those things = our good and bad works by the law which are all filthy rags..

    (Rom 6:22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

    We are freed (innocent from sin through Christ.)

    (Rom 6:23) For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Even our good is sin.. and of course our bad the wages thereof is death; but the gift of God (Romans 5, John 3:16)

    (Rom 5:14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    (Rom 5:15) But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
    (Rom 5:16) And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

    Many offenses.. (As all we do has sin therein.) We must be wholly justified by Christ. If we look for our being in Christ from our works, if we are honest we will find death because our works are sinking sand. But, if we don't see any works at all or even if we do (seeing the deadness in our fruit.) Our response should be to trust in Christ thereby abiding in him and count all else but dung.

    (Rom 4:17) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
    (Rom 4:18) Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
    (Rom 4:19) And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
    (Rom 4:20) He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
    (Rom 4:21) And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
    (Rom 4:22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
    (Rom 4:23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
    (Rom 4:24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
    (Rom 4:25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    Well can a Christian be in continual sin?

    What is a Christian? Not one that does but one that receives all he has from Christ alone. So yes we can have many offenses. But, by no means should we live therein. I struggle with pride and it attacks me almost constantly and sometimes I am being proud at work and think (look how good you are doing compared to..!!) Or instead of let me work well and be nice and be a good witness for my Lord! Greed attacks all of a sudden and mixes in to my dismay I catch myself being nice (in which case being nice is an act of greed..) to get a $5 compliment coupon.. The flesh is always there sin is always there.. For example; Because one suffers with the outward form (yelling) and not just the the spiritual form (anger). Is that sin to big for God? No, and he will perfect that which concerns them at the resurrection. In the mean time we must suffer (Rom 8) with our imperfections in hope for the removal thereof... (for me my continual battle with pride, Idolatrous images of Christ in my mind etc.. I try to slay it them when I find them staying I can't give up. I must say go ahead flesh if you must go ahead all you want.. I agree I am a sinner worthy of death.. Yet I will trust in my Lord and wait in hope and by God's grace I will overcome you soon and also in that day finally you will be gone!

    But let everyone that confesses Christ depart from iniquity for his names sake.
  2. Thanks
    Nathaniel got a reaction from Mrs. T in Hello   
    Welcome May God bless you and your ministry.
  3. Thanks
    Nathaniel got a reaction from anime4christ in Calvinism on the March   
    “5. Many look at Charles Spurgeon as next in line after the trinity and want to be like him. It would be better in my opinion if they would just smoke his cigars instead of choking on his Calvinism."

    I was saved after listening to one of Spurgeons sermons. However I came to hold to very high view of separation.. I tended to separate over the smallest things and wouldn't listen to preachers only that were really close to my views... I thought they must not believe their bibles to believe that! (When I hadn't even read the whole bible yet..) So a bit after I knew he was a "Calvinist". I stopped listening to him and deleted his material.. However I kept seeing "Calvinism" in scripture.. (I learned what it was from a refutation of it.) By no means did I want to believe it. In fact (I was extremely prideful as a young believer and it still tries to overtake me...) I thought Calvinism was a evil doctrine and pretty much thought one a heretic if the believed such.. I also followed Dr. Cloud a lot as a young believer.. and I was surprised some people didn't care for him when I read topics here.. (Because after all he is high on the Fundamental 500?! (Which I found you all on..) However I read through the bible for the first time and I could no longer believe dispensationalism.. (Gal 3:16) (Ro 9:6)
    Scripture is (at least to me) plainly against it. I didn't see a Pre-trib rapture anywhere.. (if you remember I had some forums on such here. I even rejected Calvinism there post #146) I was shocked and I had to re-examine doctrines.. (I even ended up doubted cardinal ones to my shame..) I had built so much upon the teachers and what I was taught by them when they failed me what ground had I? (I did similar to what #5 is only with IFB teachers) I read and believed what people told me if they were orthodox in some things I figured they must be in these too! So if they could make scripture seem to support their view then I was sold. However, I still denied Calvinism and refused for awhile to listen to teachers.. As I was going to go scriptural.. I started reading the gospels and Romans and I kept seeing "Calvinism" a lot in John. But I fought against it still as someone here called it a damnable doctrine and it kinda scared me... I kept meditating upon the scriptures in my mind and I couldn't ignore it any longer. So I decided to see what my old friend Spurgeon had to say about "Calvinism" I listened to "Sovereign Grace and Man's Responsibility" and it answered quite a few of my questions.. I only believe it because of scripture by no means because a teacher taught it.. If I was following my teachers I would still be 100% IFB. (Edit: I'm sorry that could have come across the wrong way. I think you all believe your bibles too.)

    (John 12:32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

    (John 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    All men cannot be always all men in the universe unless you believe every single person ever will be saved...

    (John 6:39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


    (Matt 11:25) At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
    (Matt 11:26) Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
    (Matt 11:27) All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].


    (Matt 16:16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    (Matt 16:17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


    (John 1:10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


    (the world "gentiles")

    (John 1:11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    (His own "jews of the flesh" who then is left?)

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: KJV
    John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. KJV

    John 6:62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? KJV
    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. KJV
    John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. KJV
    John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. KJV

    2Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: KJV
    2Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. KJV
    2Cor 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. KJV
    2Cor 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. KJV

    Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; KJV
    Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: KJV

    (we used to be blinded)


    Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; KJV
    Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: KJV
    Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. KJV
    Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, KJV
    Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) KJV
    Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: KJV
    Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. KJV
    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: KJV

    (that faith is the gift of God)

    (Eph 2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    (John 6:28) Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    (John 6:29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.



    (The work that God does is to make us believe otherwise we are doing a work.)

    Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. KJV
    Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. KJV

    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. KJV

    Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. KJV

    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV
    John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. KJV

    Isa 54:13 And all thy children [shall be] taught of the LORD; and great [shall be] the peace of thy children. KJV

    Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. KJV
    Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. KJV

    John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. KJV

    John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. KJV
    John 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. KJV
    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him]. KJV
    John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. KJV
    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. KJV

    Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. KJV
    Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. KJV

    (We cannot even truly receive Christ unless saving faith be given to us.)

    (Rom 10:20) But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
    (Rom 10:21) But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


    C.H Spurgeon quotes from Sovereign Grace and Man's Responsibility (thanks www.spurgeongems.org for the sermon) (I would reccomend hearing the sermon if you are interested here http://www.sermonaud...ID=22301111032.)
    "The system of Truth is not one straight line, but two. No man will ever get a right view of the Gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once." "That God predestines and that man is responsible are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory. But they are not! It is the fault of our own weak judgment" "These two Truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity!"
    "Now, this morning I am about to consider the two Doctrines. In the 20th verse, we have taught us the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace—“But Isaiah is very bold and says, I was found by those who sought Me not. I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.” In the next verse, we have the Doctrine of man’s guilt in rejecting God.
    I. First, then, DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY AS EXEMPLIFIED IN SALVATION. If any man is saved, he is saved by Divine Grace and by Divine Grace, alone. The reason of his salvation is not to be found in him, but in God. We are not saved as the result of anything that we do or that we will—we will and do as the result of God’s good pleasure and the work of His Grace in our hearts! No sinner can prevent God, that is, he cannot go before Him, cannot anticipate Him. God is always first in the matter of salvation! He is before our convictions, before our desires, before our fears, before our hopes. All that is good or ever will be good in us is preceded by the Grace of God and is the effect of a Divine cause with-in. "

    "You would imagine that if God gave His Grace to any He would wait until He found them earnestly seeking Him. You would imagine that God in the highest heavens would say, “I have mercies, but I will leave men alone and when they feel their need of these mercies and seek Me diligently with their whole heart, day and night, with tears and vows and supplications—then will I bless them—but not before.” But Beloved, God says no such thing! It is true He does bless them who cry unto Him but He blesses them before they cry, for their cries are not their own cries, but cries He has put into their lips! Their desires are not of their own growth, but desires which He has cast like good seed into the soil of their hearts. God saves men who do not seek Him! Oh, wonder of wonders! It is mercy indeed when God saves a seeker, but how much greater mercy when He seeks the lost Himself? "Mark the parable of Jesus Christ concerning the lost sheep. It does not run thus—“A certain man had a hundred sheep and one of them did go astray. And he tarried at home and lo, the sheep came back and he received it joyfully and said to his friends, rejoice, for the sheep that I have lost has come back.” No. He went after the sheep—it never would have come after him."

    II. Now, then, for the second point. “There now,” says my ultra friend, “he is going to contradict himself.” No, my Friend, I am not! I am only going to contradict you. The second point is MAN’S RESPONSIBILITY. “But to Israel He says, All day long I have stretched out My hands unto a disobedient and contrary people.” Now, these people whom God had cast away had been wooed, had been sought, had been entreated to be saved. But they would not and inasmuch as they were not saved, it was the effect of their disobedience and their contrariness. That lies clearly enough in the text. When God sent the Prophets to Israel and stretched forth His hands, what was it for? What did He wish them to come to Him for? Why, to be saved! “No,” says one, “it was for temporal mercies.” Not so, my Friend! The verse before is concerning spiritual mercies and so is this one, for they refer to the same thing. Now, was God sincere in His offer? God forgive the man who dares to say He was not! God is undoubtedly sincere in every act He does. He sent His Prophets. He entreated the people of Israel to lay hold on spiritual things, but they would not. And though He stretched out His hands all the day long, yet they were, “a disobedient and contrary people,” and would not have His love. And on their head rests their blood!"


    “Well,” says one, “I like the Doctrine. Still there are very few that preach it and those that do are very high.” Very likely, but I care little what anybody calls me. It matters very little what men call you. Suppose they call you a “hyper”—that does not make you anything wicked, does it? Suppose they call you an Antinomian—that will not make you one! I must confess, however, that there are some men who preach this Doctrine who are doing ten thousand times more harm than good because they don’t preach the next Doctrine I am going to proclaim, which is just as true! They have this to be the sail, but they have not the other to be the ballast. They can preach one side, but not the other. They can go along with the high Doctrine but they will not preach the whole of the Word. Such men caricature the Word of God! And just let me say here, that it is the custom of a certain body of Ultra-Calvinists, to call those of us who teach that it is the duty of man to repent and believe, “Mongrel Calvinists.” If you hear any of them say so, give them my most respectful compliments and ask them whether they ever read Calvin’s works in their lives. Not that I care what Calvin said or did not say, but ask them whether they ever read his works. And if they say “No,” as they must say, for there are 48 large volumes—you can tell them that the man whom they call “a Mongrel Calvinist,” though he has not read them all, has read a very good share of them and knows their spirit. And he knows that he preaches substantially what Calvin preached—that every Doctrine he preaches may be found in Calvin’s Commentaries on some part of Scripture or other. We are TRUE Calvinists! However, Calvin is nobody to us. Jesus Christ and Him Crucified and the old fashioned Bible are our standards. Beloved, let us take God’s Word as it stands! If we find high Doctrine there, let it be high! If we find low Doctrine, let it be low! Let us set up no other standard than the Bible affords!"


    In the end it is still; (John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
  4. Thanks
    Nathaniel got a reaction from Covenanter in Calvinism on the March   
    I agree predestination is all in Christ alone.

    (Eph 1:3) Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
    (Eph 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    It would have to be in Christ we could never be predestined in ourselves if so we could never be holy and without blame before him in love. He chose us in him before the foundation of the world.Though I disagree we do anything (by ourselves) Edit: because even our believing is worked by God. Though we must believe.) to become Christ's. It is all bought by Christ alone (Which though we differ what what all is in this case too.. I assume we would agree that Salvation is all of the Lord.)

    (Rom 9:10) And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;
    (Rom 9:11) (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
    (Rom 9:12)  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
    (Rom 9:13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
    (Rom 9:14) What shall we say then? [is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
    (Rom 9:15) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    (Rom 9:16) So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


    (Heb 6:18) That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    Now I just thought of this..
    We flee for refuge to Christ (Man's Responsibility), But it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.(Sovereign Grace) Because he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world and calls us by his Grace through the spirit.   (Rom 8:28) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.(Rom 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.(Rom 8:30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    So in the end it truly is;
    (Rom 8:31) What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?


    I'll take the risk of being called a Spurgeonist.... As I find this similar to your situation.  (Sovereign Grace and man's responsibility (again..) Thanks to Spurgeon Gems )

    (Rom 10:20) But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
    (Rom 10:21) But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

    CH Spurgeon:

    “Well,” says someone, “I should have thought that although the Savior might not require an earnest seeking and
    sighing and groaning and a continuous searching after Him, yet certainly He would have desired and demanded that eve-
    ry man, before he has Grace, should ask for it.” That, indeed, Beloved, seems natural, and God will give Grace to them
    who ask for it. But mark, the text says that He was manifested “to them who asked not for Him.” That is to say, before
    we ask, God gives us Grace! The only reason why any man ever begins to pray is because God has put previous Grace in
    his heart which leads him to pray. I remember when I was converted to God, I was an Arminian through and through. I
    thought I had begun the good work myself and I used to sit down and think, “Well, I sought the Lord four years before I
    found Him,” and I think I began to compliment myself upon the fact that I had perseveringly entreated of Him in the
    midst of much discouragement! But one day the thought struck me, “How was it you came to seek God?” and in an in-
    stant the answer came from my soul, “Why, because He led me to do it! He must first have shown me my need of Him, or
    else I should never have sought Him! He must have shown me His preciousness, or I never would have thought Him worth
    seeking.” And at once I saw the Doctrines of Grace as clear as possible. GOD must begin! Nature can never rise above
    itself. You put water into a reservoir and it will rise as high as that, but no higher if let alone. Now, it is not in human
    nature to seek the Lord. Human nature is depraved and, therefore, there must be the extraordinary pressure of the Holy
    Spirit put upon the heart to lead us to first ask for mercy. But mark, we do not know anything about that while the Spir-
    it is operating! We find that out afterwards. We ask as much as if we were asking all of ourselves. Our business is to seek
    the Lord as if there were no Holy Spirit at all—and although we do not know it, there must always be a previous motion
    of the Spirit in our heart before there will be a motion of our heart towards Him— "


    (Rom 3:10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    (Rom 3:11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
    (Rom 3:12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


    I agree with Pilgrim though let us labour the more to share the Gospel than debate (for lack of thinking of a better word.) Oh, if we think of our Savior's love how often do we (At the very least I) fall short. :(
  5. Thanks
    Nathaniel got a reaction from HappyChristian in Weak   
    Thank you for your prayers, I am doing better with the doubting now; the sickness is getting better too. Praise the Lord for he is good and has used it for my good. :D
  6. Thanks
    Nathaniel got a reaction from HappyChristian in How do you feel about movies with magic and such?   
    I'm not trying to zero in on anyone and by no means am I perfect. I have many of my own problems to still work through though this might help someone. (I'll try to keep it brief.)

    I just would like to warn on the use of fiction (magic in particular). Surely it can seem like "Cinderella" can seem innocent harmless fun; but, what it truly is (in my view) is entry level into more occult like things.

    1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

    Before I was saved, I watched many things with magic in them. Progressively more dark, less innocent. The justification in my eyes was this.
    Don't tell me Harry Potter (as an example) is bad if your watching things with magic in them too. (Cinderella (etc.)
    It has a bad word, so what! I've heard them before!
    Slowly (so you barely notice if you do at all) standards start to fall. Your mind (can (at the very least) become more perverse.

    The argument i get often on my stance it. It helps Imagination... well... I don't think watching those things is what imagination needs..

    Ge 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.


    I live my Christian life doing trying (only succeeding with the help of the Lord; (though I'm sure sometimes I fail..) not to have a double standard. Yes I'll leave myself open for this "The bible has magic!" well there are differences.

    The bible is true; it is not fantasy. (I for one try to stay away from all fantasy and acting; which I believe it is not of truth. Acting can be linked also to hypocrisy. (I won't go to far into that.)

    Scripture clearly condemns magic I find no such thing as "good magic"

    Ga 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    Ga 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
    Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    Ga 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Ga 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    Ga 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    Ga 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    Ga 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

    De 18:9 ¶ When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
    De 18:10 There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
    De 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
    De 18:12 For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
    De 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.


    I'm sure there are other things that can be brought of up as well.. However I am blurry on this area; maybe someone can help me out on that... I believe there is a huge difference however i have a hard time putting it into words..

    Either way I'm pretty sure some will disagree and justify it however.

    Lu 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.


    (I don't understandhow it can be justified to watch or read it? To me it is like unto music I think for the most part those here agree that it isn't right to listen to Rock or Pop; If you use similar thinking to what you use with music. I believe you would find also magic isn't right.. By all means; I would like to (at least my fleshly part) watch the anime and read the manga I used too. But I don't believe that it brings glory to God. Much the less I believe it hurts ones testimony. My sister (praise the Lord for answered prayer) quit reading and watching them too.. I got her into them. I'm so glad she is free from it. For her and myeself.. When i would see her reading manga. My flesh would truly lust after it.. It was hard on me as well..

    Ro 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.
    Ro 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
    Ro 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
    Ro 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
    Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
    Ro 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved of men.
    Ro 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
    Ro 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.
    Ro 14:21 [it is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
    Ro 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
    Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.


    I try my very best not to have ANYTHING in my life that could be a stumbling block.. I know of some things I'm working towards removing now.. I ask for your all's prayers regarding that.


    I'll post some links to some material that can goes more in depth if you all are interested..

    http://biblicaltruth...0Transcript.htm or in audio.. http://www.sermonaud...SID=82509854244

    http://www.sermonaud...?SID=8910843526



    Finally;

    Ps 1:1 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
    Ps 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
    Ps 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
    Ps 1:4 ¶ The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
    Ps 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
    Ps 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

    1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
    1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.


    and I like to end messages with this sometimes..

    Eph 6:24 Grace [be] with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen. [Written from Rome unto the Ephesians by Tychicus.]
  7. Thanks
    Nathaniel got a reaction from Miss Linda in How do you feel about movies with magic and such?   
    I'm not trying to zero in on anyone and by no means am I perfect. I have many of my own problems to still work through though this might help someone. (I'll try to keep it brief.)

    I just would like to warn on the use of fiction (magic in particular). Surely it can seem like "Cinderella" can seem innocent harmless fun; but, what it truly is (in my view) is entry level into more occult like things.

    1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

    Before I was saved, I watched many things with magic in them. Progressively more dark, less innocent. The justification in my eyes was this.
    Don't tell me Harry Potter (as an example) is bad if your watching things with magic in them too. (Cinderella (etc.)
    It has a bad word, so what! I've heard them before!
    Slowly (so you barely notice if you do at all) standards start to fall. Your mind (can (at the very least) become more perverse.

    The argument i get often on my stance it. It helps Imagination... well... I don't think watching those things is what imagination needs..

    Ge 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.


    I live my Christian life doing trying (only succeeding with the help of the Lord; (though I'm sure sometimes I fail..) not to have a double standard. Yes I'll leave myself open for this "The bible has magic!" well there are differences.

    The bible is true; it is not fantasy. (I for one try to stay away from all fantasy and acting; which I believe it is not of truth. Acting can be linked also to hypocrisy. (I won't go to far into that.)

    Scripture clearly condemns magic I find no such thing as "good magic"

    Ga 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    Ga 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
    Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    Ga 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Ga 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    Ga 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    Ga 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    Ga 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

    De 18:9 ¶ When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
    De 18:10 There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
    De 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
    De 18:12 For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
    De 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.


    I'm sure there are other things that can be brought of up as well.. However I am blurry on this area; maybe someone can help me out on that... I believe there is a huge difference however i have a hard time putting it into words..

    Either way I'm pretty sure some will disagree and justify it however.

    Lu 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.


    (I don't understandhow it can be justified to watch or read it? To me it is like unto music I think for the most part those here agree that it isn't right to listen to Rock or Pop; If you use similar thinking to what you use with music. I believe you would find also magic isn't right.. By all means; I would like to (at least my fleshly part) watch the anime and read the manga I used too. But I don't believe that it brings glory to God. Much the less I believe it hurts ones testimony. My sister (praise the Lord for answered prayer) quit reading and watching them too.. I got her into them. I'm so glad she is free from it. For her and myeself.. When i would see her reading manga. My flesh would truly lust after it.. It was hard on me as well..

    Ro 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.
    Ro 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
    Ro 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
    Ro 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
    Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
    Ro 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved of men.
    Ro 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
    Ro 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.
    Ro 14:21 [it is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
    Ro 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
    Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.


    I try my very best not to have ANYTHING in my life that could be a stumbling block.. I know of some things I'm working towards removing now.. I ask for your all's prayers regarding that.


    I'll post some links to some material that can goes more in depth if you all are interested..

    http://biblicaltruth...0Transcript.htm or in audio.. http://www.sermonaud...SID=82509854244

    http://www.sermonaud...?SID=8910843526



    Finally;

    Ps 1:1 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
    Ps 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
    Ps 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
    Ps 1:4 ¶ The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
    Ps 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
    Ps 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

    1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
    1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.


    and I like to end messages with this sometimes..

    Eph 6:24 Grace [be] with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen. [Written from Rome unto the Ephesians by Tychicus.]
  8. Thanks
    Nathaniel got a reaction from Seth Doty in Discussion Topic - Is Dancing Always Wrong?   
    I wouldn't say dancing is wrong in all situations because;
    Ec 3:1 ¶ To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    Ecclesiastes 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    It is hard for me to discern on this matter though. Certainly i would not approve of non-married couples dancing "together" But in the same room modestly; I don't see a problem as long as it isn't worldly and anything that could cause lust.


    In regards to CCM, I would not listen to it today. Though it did help me as i made the transition to conservative music (Which the Lord has helped me to enjoy. I was really picky when it came to music. It had to be almost musically flawless). I wouldn't recommend it though. It would most likely have been better to abstain though I didn't know it at the time. I thought music was music.

    I haven't find specific yes or no to certain instruments but, so i can see CrushMaster's point; but, I believe there are principles which we can apply which would lead us away from CCM.


    Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
    CCM is conformed to this world, "pop" and "contemporary music" (normally main elements in CCM) which as I understand was the spawn of "Rock" (I don't like to bring the term up after i learned what it was named for..) with a deceiving appearance. It also often waters down the truth (if there is any to be found in the lyrics.) It is certainly the Worldly' Music most if not all of the time.


    Ro 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
    Ro 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
    Ro 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
    Ro 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
    Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    Many, I'm sure could not like the type of music. They have knowledge of its counterpart and were heavily in it and perhaps some of the darker side which can accompany it. It could cause lust after old things and cause a stumbling block. Which is another principle against CCM.


    I think we can also use these scriptures for principle.
    De 12:29 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
    De 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
    De 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
    De 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

    I think I'll leave this topic for now with these verses. but, even if it is good. Which I can't see at this point.

    Ro 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
    1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.


    (another edit: I also noticed most if not all the previous verses can be also applied to dancing; 1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.)
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