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  • Birthday 01/19/1944

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  1. . There's an episode in Paul's first letter to the church at Corinth regarding a pew warmer who was sleeping with his father's wife. Shame of shame, the church defended the man and said nothing to him about his conduct. But when Paul got wind of it, he blew his stack and demanded that they unite and ostracize the man. As time went by, the man's attitude changed and then Paul ordered the church to welcome him back into their membership. You know, I see some of that very same thing going on here. People are indignant that I have questioned asysin2leads' divorce. But until his attitude changes, it is my sacred duty to hold his feet to the fire; and all of you should be doing the very same thing. If it's any consolation to some of my critics hereabouts; I have been married to a divorced woman going on 31 years. She's my first and only wife; and the only girl I ever slept with. We have one son who graduated from University Of Oregon in 2005 with a degree in Journalism. Does Mtt 5:31-32 make us adulterers? Yes; no doubt about it. Does Mtt 5:31-32 imply that our son was born in sin? Yes; it most certainly does. You see; I trust the Bible's Christ and sincerely believe he knows what he's talking about. That's all I have to say about that; and this is my final on this particular thread. C.L.I.F.F. /
  2. . It's still denied because it is better to OBey God than men. †. 1Tim 5:20-21 . .Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. C.L.I.F.F. /
  3. . Was David condemned to eternal suffering for the unpardonable sins of premeditated murder and adultery? Was he condemned to Hell for the unpardonable sin of deliberate sin? No; but I'll tell you something about David. His attitude about it was a world of a difference than the one you've thus far exemplified. C.L.I.F.F. /
  4. . Request Denied. †. 1Tim 5:20-21 . .Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. C.L.I.F.F. /
  5. . The sole excuse that the Bible's Christ will accept for divorce is unfaithfulness. †. Mtt 5:31-32 . . It hath been said: Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. According to the Bible's Christ; you've caused your ex to live in sin and your current spouse to live in sin; not to mention that you too are living in sin and also fathered three children in sin. In my estimation, your prOBlems with the various English translations are insignificant in comparison to that. May I share a story with you? †. Mtt 14:3-11 . . Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife. For John said unto him: It is not lawful for thee to have her. And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet. . . . But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod. Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask. And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger. . . . And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her. And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother. Herod's unholy relationship with Herodias cost the life of an innocent man. And just look at the quandary your own kids are in now because of YOUR unholy relationships. They're just kids; but YOU are a Christian adult, educated in a Christian Bible college. Shame on you! C.L.I.F.F. /
  6. . Christianity's Commandments (20) 120) 1Cor 15:34 . . Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. NOTE: Paul's directive is in connection with the Corinthians' ignorance of the fundamentals of resurrection (1Cor 15:12-33) which are labeled elsewhere as baby food. (Heb 5:11-6:3) People who subsist on Gerber's products are "dull of hearing" That doesn't mean they have wax in their ears. It just means that they are too immature to handle certain concepts because they cannot be understood without first understanding something simpler first; for example things like arithmetic. There's no use in trying to teach an infant the principles of long division. That would be about like strapping a parachute on the little guy and expecting him to pull the rip cord on his own at two thousand feet. You just have to be realistic about some things. †. 1Cor 3:1-2 . . And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. The "brethren" in the Corinthian church included its managers; viz: pastors, deacons, elders, and Sunday school teachers. It's not that Corinth's rank and file pew warmers were un-teachable, it's just that their instructors were inept. That's still a prOBlem in churches even to this day. So instead of getting led, those congregations end up being misled. I once attended a Conservative Baptist church here in Oregon where the Sunday school teacher assigned to one of the adult classes was a seminary student. Part of his degree program was to teach a certain number of hours in a real church. Anyway, one morning his text was this: "This I say then: walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16) Mr. Seminary Student commented that he didn't get up that morning with the goal of walking in the Spirit throughout the day primarily because he had no clue how it was done. Thunderstruck at the realization that my wife and I were being led in Sunday school by a man speaking for God who would announce such a thing, I stood up and asked for a show of hands of anyone, or anybody, in the room who was walking in the Spirit that morning. The only response I got in return was a roomful of silent, wide-eyed faces who looked like I'd just announced the end of the world. NOBody was walking in the Spirit, and Mr. Seminary Student was standing off to the side looking as embarrassed as a kid who just soiled his knickers. C.L.I.F.F. /
  7. . Well, I had no idea it was a refutation of Calvanism because you didn't include a statement to that effect. In point of fact, because of your strong emphasis on verse 4; I assumed you were a universalist. It was not my intention to refute any of the so-called five points of Calvanism but rather to refute universalism's philosophy that (1) everybody is God's kin, and (2) nOBody goes to a Hell. 1Tim 2:4-6 is one of their favorite "proof" texts. Ironically, though the universalists with whom I've dialogued believe their proof texts to be Spirit-fathered, they insist that the remainder of the Bible is not, and therefore cannot be trusted. One of their ilk even insisted that the only portion of the entire Bible that's Spirit-fathered are the four Gospels! (chuckle) He really painted himself into a corner with that position since the gospel of John states quite clearly, and without ambiguity, that it's necessary to undergo a second birth as per John 1:12-13 and John 3:3-8 in order to OBtain the right to a place around the table in God's home as His lawful kin. C.L.I.F.F. /
  8. . Christianity's Commandments (19) 115) 1Cor 14:34 . . Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also saith the law. NOTE: the "law" to which Paul refers is Gen 3:16— "To the woman He said: he shall rule over you" 1Cor 14:33-34 seems to contradict 1Cor 11:3-10 where the author permitted women to pray and/or prophecy in church just so long as they wear something on their hair to indicate a Christian woman's subordination to Christian men. However; there are limits to that privilege. †. 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. In other words, men have the primogeniture and therefore it is a disgrace for Christian women to assume equality with Christian men in a Christian church. It never fails that there's always at least one assertive, confrontational female in the crowd impassioned to countermand Paul's instructions with other of Paul's instructions. For example: †. Gal 3:27-28 . . For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. However, Paul is speaking of unity in Gal 3:27-28 while in places like 1Cor 14:34 and 1Tim 2:11-13 he's speaking of authority; and in matters of authority, there is eo ipso limited equality because somebody has to be the superior and somebody has to be the subordinate. In Christian churches; gender-wise, females are the designated subordinates. So then, they have no right to sit on a church board, nor to pastor a church, nor to lead an adult Sunday school class. In point of fact, the women in adult Sunday school classes aren't even so much as permitted to open their mouths and participate in discussions. 116) 1 Cor 14:35 . . And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. NOTE: Christian women are forbidden to participate in spiritual discussions when Christian men are present. So then, what's a Christian wife to do if her Christian husband is spiritually inept? Well, have Mr. Inept pass her question on to somebody who knows a thing or two and then get back to her. If she's married to a non-Christian husband, then she should route her question via one of the Christian women married to a Christian husband; but it's especially important to guard against permitting another man to come between women and their husbands. 117) 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. NOTE: if your Sunday school, or your catechism class, is being captained by somebody who disagrees with Paul; believe me, you have a serious prOBlem because it indicates that your leader is only human rather than inspired. 118) 1Cor 14:38 . . But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. NOTE: in other words; don't argue with a Bible teacher who's only human; it will just be throwing good money after bad. Instead, leave his/her class to themselves and you get yourself out of there pronto. 119) 1 Cor 14:39-40 . . Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order. NOTE: things like incoherent blabbering, talking out of turn, digression, and impudent women; are neither sensible nor orderly; no, they're chaos, anarchy, bedlam, annoying, rude, disruptive, and on a par with heathenism. †. 1Sam 15:22-23 . . Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in OBeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to OBey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. C.L.I.F.F. /
  9. . I'm going to deliberately misquote the 4th verse. Watch for the error. "Who will save all men." No, God is not going to save all men, though it be His will that all be saved. The Bible's plan of salvation contains the element of decision. In other words, the Bible's God is not like Neanderthals who went about kidnapping women to marry them while caring nothing about how the girls might feel about it. God is unwilling that any should perish, yes; however, it is not His decision to make. It is the sinner's decision. †. Ezk 18:23 . . Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? In the book of Revelation is depicted a scene from the future which John actually saw for himself. In the scene, people are thrown into a reservoir of liquefied flame from which there is no return. The reason there is no return is because the reservoir is clearly labeled a second death (Rev 2:11, Rev 20:6, Rev 20:11-15). That is very important to note because there is only one resurrection allotted per person. †. Dan 12:2 . . And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. †. John 5:28-29 . . Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. I once heard of a preacher who was asked by an inquiring mind what one would have to do to go to Hell. He responded: You don’t have to do anything; just bide your time: Hell is the default. †. John 3:14-15 . . And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. In Num 21:5-9, the people of Israel became weary of eating manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning their Lord and Master for a different diet, they became hostile and confrontational, angrily demanding better food. In reply; The Lord sent a swarm of poisonous vipers among them; which began biting and killing people; and every bite was 100% fatal, no exceptions. Then the people realized their mistake and asked Moses to intercede. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to construct an effigy of the vipers and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying from venom could look upon the effigy for relief. †. 2Cor 5:14 . . we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead The Bible's Jesus did indeed die for all; because all are literally dead men walking. †. Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. †. 1John 2:2 . . He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. However, the Lord's cross is much like that serpentary effigy in that dead men walking must look to it for relief. Within the context of John 3:14-18, those who fail to look to Jesus' crucifixion to protect themselves from the wrath of God are already condemned to death, no waiting period. So that death in the reservoir isn't the option, no, it's the default— life is the option, and according to Jesus, the majority have not been OBtaining it. †. Luke 13:23-24 . . Then said one unto him: Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. †. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. †. Mtt 22:14 . .For many are invited, but few are chosen. The million dollar question is: Who gets chosen? Answer: Those who look to the cross for safety from the wrath of God. The rest are in line for the reservoir of liquefied flame even before they cross over to the other side. †. John 3:16-18 . . For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God. C.L.I.F.F. /
  10. . Christianity's Commandments (18) 113) Cor 14:29 . . Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 114) 1Cor 14:30-31 . . If anything be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. NOTE: that isn't permission to derail a Sunday school class with wild-eyed epiphanies. The directive is restricted to those who actually have the gift of prophecy rather than the gift of gab; in other words: truly inspired individuals. What he's saying is: Sunday school shouldn't be a filibuster. If a truly inspired person seated in the room knows something helpful, they should be allowed to share it with the rest so that everybody (including the teacher) benefits from their Spirit-endowed insight. And it should go without saying; the inspired person's comments should not digress; viz: they should be on-topic; that is: solidly pertinent to the subject at hand. It's all too common for Sunday school classes to go off on tangents and in effect hijack the morning and render it completely disconnected from the leader's agenda. I'm a firm believer in the freedom of speech (and the freedom of the ear) but not to the point of making a nuisance of one's self and infringing on the rights of others. Freedoms are precious blessings that should be utilized wisely by wise people; viz: by grown-ups. †. 1Cor 14:32 . . The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Though God endows certain Spirit-selected people in church with the gift of prophecy (1Cor 12:4-11) it is not He who endows them with the impulse to talk out of turn. Self control is their responsibility; not His. †. 1Cor 14:33 . . For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. C.L.I.F.F. /
  11. . PopClock Update (06) 15 days have elapsed since beginning the topic on Aug 15, 2010 Using the original factor of 2,260 adult-age Americans transferring to perdition per each 24-hour civil day, suggests 33,900 adult-age Americans have passed through the gates of the current Hell just since beginning the topic. The world-wide total, based upon the original factor of 49,942 condemned souls per 24-hour civil day, suggests 749,130 total arrivals in perdition since beginning the topic . . . and the clock is still ticking. __________ __________ __________ ___________ NOBel Prize winner, author of several best-selling books, and recipient of at least a dozen honorary degrees, Physicist Steven Weinberg (who views religion as an enemy of science), in his book, The First Three Minutes, wrote: "The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it seems pointless. But if there is no solace in the fruits of our research, there is at least some consolation in the research itself . . .the effort to understand the universe is one of the very few things that lifts human life a little above the level of a farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy." If learning is the only justification for existence that Mr. Weinberg can find in this life, then he is certain to feel smothered in the shroud of absolute futility in the Bible's hell since there is nothing to contemplate down there but one's predicament— no more labs, no more test tubes, no more microscopes, no more telescopes, no more earth sciences like geology, soil, oceans, atmosphere, glaciers, and geodesy; no more theories like Big Bang, evolution and special relativity, no more space exploration, no more undersea exploration; nor more engineering: in fact, no more science whatsoever. C.L.I.F.F. /
  12. . Christianity's Commandments (17) 107) 1Cor 14:1a . . Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts NOTE: the koiné Greek word for "charity" is agape (ag-ah'-pay) which means: love. One of the salient characteristics of love is its willingness to stifle its own interests for the benefit of others. Love isn't a show-off either. Love should be the impetus in any exercise of spiritual gifts; viz: gifts are for the benefit of others rather than one's self. 108) 1Cor 14:1b . . but rather that ye may prophesy. NOTE: prophecy isn't strictly limited to foretelling the future, but more importantly, a prophet is an inspired individual who is very skilled and effective at teaching, explaining, and applying the Bible; viz: a character-builder rather than a mood enhancer. A soloist, a choir, a pianist or an organist may entertain the congregation, and put it in a temporary spiritual mood, but typically do nothing to improve the congregation's character. It's the character-building gifts that are the most valuable inside the church. 109) 1Cor 14:13 . . Let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. NOTE: a charismatic once told me that he prayed in a tongue because he couldn't express his feelings any other way. Mind you this was an American adult of almost fifty years old; educated in America and spoke English his entire life. So I asked him how it is that his command of the English language was so poor that he could only express himself in a language that no one could understand; not even himself. That wasn't Paul's way. †. 1Cor 14:14-15 . . For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 110) 1Cor 14:22a . .Tongues are for a sign However, the sign isn't intended for the benefit of believers, but rather, for non-believers. †. 1Cor 14:22b . . not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. The purpose of any tongue is communication; so if a tonguer is speaking a language nOBody understands, he's actually created a barrier to communication, and the purpose of the tongue is defeated. †. 1Cor 14:6-9 . . Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. Since tongues are for the benefit of unbelievers, then it's de facto they're supposed to be used as an evangelistic tool rather than an edifying tool. Somebody who exercises a tongue for any other reason has missed the point; and they're behaving like a little kid with a toy. 111) 1Cor 14:20 . . Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. †. 1Cor 14:23-25 . . If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. 112) 1Cor 14:27-28 . . If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. NOTE: tonguers are not permitted to speak all at one time like a mOB of drunken sailors. They are to take turns; speaking one at a time, rather than an entire congregation together. And if there's no one to interpret, tonguers are not permitted to speak at all. If Christians the world over followed those rules, it would put the charismatics out of business in less than two week-ends. These directives regulating the exercise of tongues in a church meeting were written by the apostle Paul— a duly authorized agent speaking on behalf of the Bible's Christ. †. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of The Lord. †. 1Ths 2:13 . . When ye received the word of God, which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. †. 1Ths 4:1-2 . . We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. So then, when Christians proceed to disOBey the rules regulating the exercise of tongues, they are in shameful rebellion against the very lord and master of New Testament Christianity; and yet, ironically, still have the chutzpah to pass themselves off as his followers. A follower can be defined as someone who gets in step and/or falls in line. †. 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth C.L.I.F.F. /
  13. . Would you rate yourself a domineering woman, or an insecure woman; or maybe even both? People were becoming a bit too ugly, and a bit too personal with their remarks. The purpose of this topic is not so much marital advice as it is pre-marital counseling. If young unmarried Christian girls will take the time to study those three books I recommended, they will have a much better chance at success in their marriages than the silly air heads who enter marriage without a clue. They may seem unbiblical to you; but not to me. FYI: It's my policy to caution opponents about using words like "unbiblical" and "you are wrong" lest the day comes when they're forced to eat them. Not happening. In point of fact, this is my final on this topic too. C.L.I.F.F. /
  14. . Christianity's Commandments (16) 105) 1Cor 11:33-34 . .Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. NOTE: The gist of the matter is: The Lord's supper isn't supposed to be a meal, nor is it supposed to be an individual act like blessing yourself with holy water on your way inside. It's a congregational act rather than an individual act; and it's a symbol rather than nourishment so people shouldn’t be heaping piles of tasty bread on their plates and filling gOBlets with wine as if they were out to dinner at a nice restaurant where they bring you a basket of French/Italian bread and a beverage of your choice prior to the main course being served. †. 1 Cor 11:17-22 . . Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. . . .When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. How on earth the Christians at Corinth had turned the Lord's supper into a time of banqueting is beyond me; and they even broke into caste groups rather than maintaining congregational unity. In college, study groups are important, but they are also elitist. Sometimes the study group you're in is even more important to your status on campus than the subject your group is studying. That should never happen in a Christian church. Everybody is equal at the foot of the cross whether you're Nike's kingpin sequestered in the throne room of its lavish headquarters in Beaverton Oregon, or a worker in an Asian sweatshop that makes Philip Knight's shoes. In church no one sinner is better than another; all are sinners— Christ gave his life for Beaverton as well as for Asia. The Christians at Corinth had actually marginalized Christ, totally losing sight of the terrible price the Lord paid to ransom their souls from the wrath of God. You can just imagine how insulting that must be for Jesus and his Father; not to mention its effect upon their feelings. 106) 1Cor 12:24-27 . . For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: that there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. NOTE: It's sad that congregations have been reduced to the level of an audience in some churches rather than valued and respected as legitimate pieces of Christ's body. Churches might just as well start selling tickets to their sermons and Sunday schools; and set up red carpets outside where rank and file pew warmers might ooh and ahh over the Cadillac Escalades and Lexus LX10's driven by their church's celebrities; admire the fashions, cheer, lick shoes, snap photos, and ask for autographs from church staff. C.L.I.F.F. /
  15. . So you're saying: 1) the 14th chapter of Romans doesn't matter. 2) Christ's pastors don't matter. Well, you're certainly mistaken on both counts. For one, the 14th of Romans was written by Paul the apostle as a duly authorized agent of the Bible's Christ. †. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. And second, Christ's pastors are a divine gratuity with a divine purpose. †. Eph 4:11-14 . . And he gave some apostles. . . and some pastors; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive It appears to me that you feel competent enough on your own to get by without Christ's pastors, and apparently without Paul too. C.L.I.F.F. /
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