Miss Linda

Modesty is a much larger issue than merely the attire one chooses--modesty relates both to dress and deportment. A modest woman would avoid placing herself in a situation where she was alone with men who were not related to her (father/brother/son/husband). A modest woman would never go to a bar or be out late at night without being escorted by men related to her (or being in a group of people--such as driving home from a church excursion). It simply isn't safe, and it certainly isn't seemly. A modest woman would not allow herself to be alone with a man who was courting her in a private place. Too many assaults on women, sadly, occur when women place themselves in these very situations.

Like John81 said, "Not all rapes can be prevented, just like not all of any crime can be prevented. However, many could be prevented by women dressing modestly, conducting themselves decently, taking care where they go and when, not getting drunk or high on drugs, not being alone in potentially dangerous places, etc." In other words, dressing and conducting themselves modestly.

Missed them? Just because they didn't quote them? The Lord gave jewelry to ISRAEL...symbolic, not literal.

The Israelites adopted several pagan practices from the Egyptians...should we follow that?

Let's also remember the scriptures (in the NT, under grace...) that teach separation from the world. Brow bars are definitely part of the dress of someone with a worldly mindset. And justification is always given, but no actual scripture (other than to say things like "it's an individual thing based on Romans 14"...which isn't talking about things like brow bars being okay, but rather pointing out the opposite...).

A 17 year old might have questions. And questions should be answered biblically. But not by using old testament references as support...

Salyan, our church does the same thing. Our dear pastor says "I'm not in the marriage business, I'm in the salvation business", meaning he's not obligated by God to marry anyone who happens to pass by and deisres to be married by him. He will only consent to officiate at a wedding when he knows the couple, and knows them to be mature spiritually and ready to abide by Biblical principles in their lives.

The standards *must* be kept. Worldly attitudes, including secular music and immodetst dress that are often part of wedding ceremonies, cannot be permitted to infect the churches. In Joshua 7 Achan took silver, gold and a "goodly Babylonish garment" from the spoils that they were specifically commanded NOT to touch. His entire family, all his cattle, and servants were stoned then burned because of his disobedience. We have been commanded to separate ourselves from the world. The penalty for making compromises in order to "not seem too harsh or unloving" will mean death to us and death to those for whom we should be serving as a witness.

You cannot make compromises even in seemingly little things (such as music for a wedding ceremony) because they invite greater compromises and greater sin.

Christian college? What's that?
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

You bring up points that are most often not even considered, much less acknowledged. The radical feminists succeeded in promoting the myth that all rape is about power, has nothing to do with sex and is totally a woman-hating mans opressive nature coming through. While it's true some rape is about power, it's also true that in those cases it's often sexual aspect and not simply about man ruling over woman as the radical feminists proclaim.

Some rape victims are somewhat randomly chosen, but typically the rapist has a certain "type" he is looking for or is looking for a potential victim in the "right place".

Many rapes are perpetrated by those who have strong sexual urges they can't, or refuse, to control. Such rapists tend to target women they think are "easy", "offering", or "asking for it" by their dress and the way they conduct themselves.

The abduction aspect is a good point to bring up because many of these are centered upon rape. This is often overlooked or underreported, with the abduction aspect taking the center. Some women are abducted somewhat randomly, but most often the attacker has either chose his victime prior to the attack or has gone forth with a certain "type" he intends to attack.

Not all rapes can be prevented, just like not all of any crime can be prevented. However, many could be prevented by women dressing modestly, conducting themselves decently, taking care where they go and when, not getting drunk or high on drugs, not being alone in potentially dangerous places, etc.

If all that were done there would still be rapes, but there would be fewer of them.

Many rapes occur as "rapes of opportunity" in cases such as "date rapes" and "party rapes". These, especially the "party rapes", should be among the easiest for a woman to protect themselves from but instead seem to be among the more common occurances.

It matters, it matters very much, the wrong church will lead you down the wrong path. I would vote for the skype thing way before compromising and attending a wrong church, and I ma not for the skype thing.

Once you have compromised its only a matter of how much you will compromise, for you have already shown that your open to compromise.

Edited to add.

Of course, you will not find the perfect church, and I feel sure you would not say that your home church is a perfect church, so I am not saying you've got to find the perfect church while away from home. I came back to include this for fear someone would claim that I am saying don't attend church away from home unless you find the perfect church.

Where you attend is important, there is no doubt about that. I have a suggestion, though. When you are home again, set aside some time alone with your wife when you are both rested, and then just ask her about it. There could be some dissatisfaction that you don't know about but should learn. There is likely something behind her comments, and it would be good for you to discuss it.

(Good post, MissLinda!)

Doesn't it seem that many of our Christian brethren feels that whatever they do is only between them and the Lord, and they care not if they become a stumbling block for anyone? That is if anyone stumbles because of them its 100% that person fault and they share no fault.

We are called to be separate, to stand out from the crowd, to be peculiar even, yet most Christians don't like that, like Israel of old they want to be more like those around them in the world.

As was mentioned earlier, it's a shame that in some churches we have to avert our eyes from immodestly dressed women just as we do at the mall. It's shocking what some women wear to church these days.

Yes, that's very true. This is why so many Christian women dress immodestly, have short hair and speak disrespectfully to men. This is also why so many Christian men drink alcohol, have no problem skipping church to go hunting or watch sports, and fail to show proper respect for women and their elders.

This is also why so many Christians listen to secular rock music blasting from their cars and vacation in very worldly environments.

This is your tactic in each thread of this sort. You obfuscate the issue, move away from the actual topic, attempt to turn the whole issue in another direction and put words in the mouths of those promoting the Word and sound Christian living.

Either you wish to truly live for Christ, following Him fully, striving to stay far from sin or even the hint of sin, or you are not.

There is music that needs to be kept out of the church, even when a wedding is taking place. Yet many churches will let any type of music into their churches when its not regular worship services, and some let any type in during that time.

There is just not much fear of the Lord with some people, and others just don't know any better.

Once a friend was bad mouthing an Assembly of God Church. His son was going to get married there, and his son nor the woman he was marrying were members of this church. The pastor found out the songs they were going to use, and I believe there were two that he told them they could not use. they told him they would sue any song they pleased, that did not go over very well. Yet the pastor told them, leave those two songs out, pick two more songs that I approve of, and your welcome to have your wedding here, if not, them no wedding in this church.

My friend was surprised that I agreed with the pastor, and telling him he should not be bad mouthing him.

In the church is no place for worldly music, not even when its a wedding.

Do all professing Christians properly discern right from wrong when it comes to music, videos and such? Some churches marry those outside their church as well, can it be known the level of their spiritual maturity or even if they are born again or not?

Many professing Christians today are caught up in the world. They are just as likely to want to play music from Black Eyed Peas, Beyonce or Toby Keith as are those not professing to be Christians.

How many professing Christians falsely believe there is nothing wrong with being seen wearing skimpy swimwear, including bikinis, and would have no problem wanting to show pictures or videos including such at their wedding? About as many as the world.

Should a pastor allow wickedness to be played from the sound system and shown on the screen just because somebody wants it that way? Not if he's following Christ!

Amen and Amen! But then I have been called "judgmental" and "unloving" dozens of times for saying stuff like that.

The particular pastor that I was referring to has repeatedly compromised in the area of music as well as other areas. The recent wedding at this church included music by "Kenny G" (a modern jazz musician). If the pastor would listen to what I have to say I would tell him one thing: REPENT OF THIS THY WICKEDNESS!

It's not control - it's maintaining the standards and testimony of the church. As far as the 'trust and fellowship', I daresay that if a church is in close enough fellowship with the bride & groom, they won't need to check the music. And if there wasn't that familiarity - well, it's not a matter of trust so much as it is allowing for the fact that people outside the church family, no matter how sincere, may not understand the specifics of the church's standards.

My church has chosen to escape all these issues by allowing only members (or members of like-churches) to be married in our building. It also protects us from the legal consequences that might come by refusing to host unnatural marriages.

Personal preferrence doesn't matter, what matters is what Scripture says. On this topic and the many similar topics more than enough Scripture has been put forth regarding the matter yet there are those who still want to worm their way around it.

One of costs of following Christ is actually following Him, not our own preferences.

Yes, Amen!

When I was a child and youth the things so many Christians today seem to think is okay wouldn't have even been considered because it was clear enough to all that such wasn't right for Christians.

Too many Christians today want to claim Christ but not live for Christ. They want the world and they want a Jesus that says that's okay.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4)

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." (2 Corinthians 6:17

I think it matters very much where you attend. Most churches today are very worldly, accepting worldly standards of dress, contemporary Christian music, secular entertainment, and the list goes on. They tend to accept compromise with the world rather than encouraging members to "come out from among them and be ye separate". If you have found a strong IFB church and can hear the messages preached by your regular pastor even if you are not able to be physically present, it seems the choice should be easily made. Attending a non-IFB church would invite teachings that are not faithful to the truth. You already have a church where you know the teachings and lifestyle are godly.

It sounds like your wife may not quite understand the importance of attending a strong church, and she is fortunate to have your guidance on this important issue. It's possible that if you begin attending a non-IFB church during your absences from home, you might send her mixed messages about the importance of attending a strong, Bible-based church rather than going to just any building that happens to be adorned with a steeple. One teaches the whole truth, the other offers truth mixed with falsehood. The devil truly is in the details.

Its surprising at the number of people that will say Jesus is all about tolerance, acceptance, peace, love, unity and there is the verse you mention along with this one.

Mt 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Let me ask, isn't it many times the one that is living in sin, the lost person, or the false teacher, that is wanting everyone to accept thier sins and teachings that claims Jesus is all about acceptance, tolerance, forgiveness, unity, peace, love, & ect.

The church doesn't have to perform every wedding they are asked to perform and they don't have to allow anything into their church they deem inappropriate. The church/pastor is in charge with regards to what is and isn't acceptable in their church.

Jesus' Churches are sacred, set apart, and must be guarded, and the world kept out. Each one has the right to refuse that which does not bring glory to God from coming inside.

No one is saying that if a woman dressing in a sexually tempting manner that such dress justifies rape. What has been said is that such dress can have an impact upon whether or not some women are raped or not.

If I leave my house for a week and the door is closed and locked, or if I leave my door open and unlocked, I'm not wanting to be robbed but in the case where the door is open I've increased the risk of being robbed.

It's no wonder so much of Christianity today is just like the world and so many in the world don't see Christ when they look at professing Christians.

Usually its not *just* dress, anyway...the great majority of rapes are done because the woman is not only wearing the wrong clothes, but she is at the wrong place, late at night, with the wrong people. In that case, the rape could be the consequence of very poor choices the woman has made, and sometimes sin (like drinking and thus unable to make rational decisions about where she is and what she is doing.)

When it comes to random rapes by strangers, I don't think dress has as much to do with it because of how random the crime is. I do fear sometimes that dress may be part of why certain young girls are abducted, which is why mothers should be careful how they dress their daughters...but still...usually the super random crimes don't have as much to do with dress..."random" meaning the victim is just minding their own business and not putting themselves willingly into a compromising situation (i.e. maybe just jogging, or at home, or something like that.)