Miss Linda

I would consider football (big time) hockey, some extreme basketball, softball, and others that are often extremely physical and hard to be rigorous. God told man to work by the sweat of his face, and most would consider hard physical work to be a thing that is for men. God set it up that way, the same way we consider childcare primarily a woman's specialty because it was what God gifted them with the ability to do, though both sexes are capable of handling children. There is some work that women are not designed to do, that is why God gave the job to men, and there are some jobs that men are not designed to do that is why God designed it for women. If there is to be clear distinction between the two, I would classify rigorous work for men, for their endurance level for certain things is higher. Now this is not a universal reality, there are some exceptions in which women can do things, but it all goes back to the question does it display their God-given role and glorify God? Apply that to organized sports.

Straw man. I never said that nor anything I said could possibly mean that. I believe exercise is important for both sexes, but I do not believe in organized rigorous sports for women. There are all kinds of forms of exercise that are not organized sports. My argument is not against young women playing games, I have no problem with them playing games and staying fit, in fact I would support and encourage them to stay fit, God gave us bodies to be good stewards over them, but He expects us to be good stewards within the bounds of how He has commanded us to act and to demonstrate.

For instance would it be right for me to be a professional athlete and play on Sunday? I'm keeping my body fit, and supporting my family at the same time, being a good steward of my body and my family, but I am also not in church worshiping the Lord. To be a steward of my body I would be violating the practice of corporate worship which God expects out of His people. Also, I would not be demonstrating my respect for God by ignoring corporate worship and to the world would be a hypocrite. However, I could also exercise regularly to stay fit and get a regular job to support my family, and be faithful to services at my local assembly and be a good steward in the bounds God has given me.

Let me just state this clearly so there is no misunderstanding. I DO believe that men and women BOTH are to be fit. But I DO NOT believe that women should be fit by practicing unfeminine behavior.

No, you are not being obtuse, you are being what you most often are; attempting to change the topic at hand, attempting to say others say things not said, and then avoiding the points against such.

School sports are not necessary for a boy or girl to be fit and not be obese. That's pretty simple.

As many have pointed out already, if one is dressed immodestly for a sport they are not presenting a proper Christian testimony, they are violating the Word of God.

Whatever the issue facing anyone, whether male or female, if any point violates the Word of God, a Christian should not be involved. There doesn't have to be 10 clear violations before such is binding for the Christian, yet for some reason many modern Christians seem to think that unless there are so many reasons why they should or shouldn't do something, they can ignore it and do as they please.

Christians, true followers of Christ, are called to a high calling with high standards. Whatever "sacrifice" of things of this world we make it is exceedingly tiny compared to the high cost Christ paid to redeem us.

I respectfully disagree. Our practical theology is very important to get right, for the world watches what we practice. If worldly people are watching what we do and that is somehow to be a testimony of what we believe and Who we believe in, then we must take extreme care to present a Biblical belief system in our practice. I would consider something like "what church service do you put your tithe in" to be a gnat to strain at. This matter is something completely different, this is something that is openly displayed towards all, so we must be sure that what we do is right. Discussion on something like this is healthy and causes us to look to our position and understand the biblical concepts behind them, if any, and examine the subject in light of what the Bible teaches. If our practice lines up with Biblical teaching, then it displays a Biblical truth practically. If it does not line up with the Bible, then why do we do it?

The Bible teaches:

"That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." - Titus 2:4-5

So we must ask the question, does sports teach young women to love their husbands? Does it teach them to love their children? Does it teach them to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, and obedient to their own husbands? This is what we must ask. What is right with women playing organized sports? What does the Bible teach women to do and demonstrate and does this display that practically?

"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;" - 1 Timothy 2:9

Now we must ask the question, does sports teach or display that women should wear modest apparel? Does it teach or display shamefacedness? Does it teach or display sobriety? Does this display or teach practically this Biblical truth?

Those are the questions we should be asking.

Hope that all came out as I intended. :D

Sounds rather secular to me.

Sports is a wide topic and most here would agree there are certain sports women shouldn't partake of as well as most would agree that certain coed sports are not for Christians.

Your statement sounds like the secular feminist statement that women can and should do anything a man does.

The biblical approach, for both men and women, is not about what one can or can't do, but what is right and best for one to do, or not to do.

Did you send them the letter?

Most Christian colleges, even most Christian churches and Christians themselves don't want to hear about true biblical womanhood, or manhood. They are not interested in biblical separation or biblically sound standards that differ greatly from the world.

Many Christian colleges today are little more than worldly colleges with a thin coating of "christianese" added.

Consider the topics taught and preached so often where supposed Christian women and Christian womanhood is concerned. One of the most common themes is centered around the radical feminist idea of a "strong woman". This isn't the strong woman of Scripture who stands firm in her faith, by her husbands side, in support of her family. The "strong woman" promoted in much of Christianity today is far from the biblical model and more greatly appears like that of the worldly feminists.

How many Christian pastors and authors spend several minutes or pages basically appologizing for what Scripture says regarding men and women, their differences and different roles. By the time they are finished it either appears they don't really agree with Scripture and think women should just do things "the modern way", or their message is so mixed-up that one couldn't rightly determine what they were saying.

Radical feminism has drastically impacted Christianity and as a result professing Christian women, as well as men (and their children) are not taught what the Bible actually says about such matters. In many cases, they are taught to think and live contrary to what Scripture teaches.

I don't see how female athletics inspire female virtue. In I Peter 3, Paul says that God highly values the cultivation of a "meek and quiet" spirit in godly women. The idea behind competitive sports is to beat the other team, while running around in front of other people in immodest garb. This is the antithesis of modest womanhood. How does participation in sports inspire meekness, modesty, placing others before yourself?

My primary objections, are first, the attire, it is unfeminine in almost every way. Even if they do play in feminine clothing, they still look and act decidedly masculine. Second, what is the principle of sports? To defeat others through competitive physical rigor, does that sound feminine in the least? In fact, it sounds the polar opposite. Third, this does not teach them to be meek and submissive, but rather to go forth and dominate. Not exactly feminine.

Plus, as was before pointed out on this topic, women were simply not designed to play many competitive sports. God did not make their bodies to sustain that kind of physical rigor. Simple fact.

Great discussion topic.

Friendly demons are much more dangerous than nasty ones. Temptation is most effective when it is for something pleasant. It seems "unchristian" to reject those who claim to share spirituality, but it is "another gospel."

That's true. It's not the demons and wickedness that comes at us roaring, with mouths open and teeth ready to sink in that are the most dangerous for most of us. It's those who slide up beside us, place an arm around our should and speak pleasant words that we need to beware of most of all.

There are several factors involved in this. One being that, in general, the female body wasn't designed for the rigors of certain sports. Depending upon the age, certain rigorous sports adversely effects several "female aspects" of their body.

As has been mentioned, for many sports, the attire is not modest. It's also very unseemly, as well as unchristian, the attitude and demeanor most females take on when playing certain sports.

The big push to open all sports doors for women was pushed by the ungodly radical feminists. That should tell us something.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4)

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." (2 Corinthians 6:17

Actually, our opinions don't matter, especially when Scripture gives us more than enough to rightly deal with the topic of this thread.

Part of our problem is in wanting to overthink things or viewing things through the lense of the modern concept of freedom and independence. Christians are called to cast off the old man, forsake the ways of the world, putting on the new man in Christ, submitting fully to the Lordship of Christ in our lives.

If we truly surrender to Christ and endeavor to fully follow Christ, our focus will be upon Him and expanding His kingdom. The things of the world won't be what we want. We won't be seeking our own way.

We are presented with many choices throughout each day. Will we choose to follow Christ or will we choose to satisfy our flesh? Will we pursue the things of heaven or the things of the world?

Biblical answers were provided long ago, it's been the attempt to ignore such that has prolonged the duration of this thread.

Next you'll probably try to convince us that the Joel Osteen's, Rick Warren's, Benny Hinn's of the world are great men and that there is nothing wrong with their teachings and/or theology.

BTW---your liberalness is showing.

Some Christians lie, cheat and steal, yet they are all sins and should not be condoned, accepted or tolerated.

Just because a professing Christian gets a "faith related" tattoo doesn't make it right and doesn't mean such should be accepted.

Some professing Christian women will put on a bikini and show her body off to many men who are not her husband but that doesn't change the fact doing so is a sin.

One of the major problems in the modern church is the fear of "offending" someone with the truth. This is contrary to Scripture. We can see Jesus, Paul and others directly confronting wickedness and sin; often very boldly and "offensively".

Professing Christians adopting the ways of the world, and those who don't stand against such, are not following Christ in these things.

Again, as you have continually done since coming here, you promote the idea that Christians can flirt with the world, adopt the ways of the world, and there is something wrong with true followers of Christ shining the light of truth on such wickedness.

Be ye separate, be ye holy, come out from among them, be not conformed to the world, put on the Lord Jesus Christ. It should be Christ living through us, not ourselves and certainly not the world.

Exactly!!

If one comes in with a head full of metal and later truly becomes saved, the Holy Spirit will deal with them. For example, there are 2 people in our church who when they first visited had quite a few piercings and tatoos. They got saved, and slowly the piercings (these are men) disappeared and the tatoos began to be covered up. It was a process, but it was the Holy Spirit that did it....no one (not even the preacher) went up to them to discuss these issues.

Unfortunately we had another person who came for a while, quite a few piercings in the head, lip, eyebrow.....said he gave his life to The Lord, then after a few weeks quit coming to church. He ignored phone calls, contacts from church people/friends. Come to find out a few months later that he returned to his "rock band" lifestyle.

None of these 3 were approached by anyone regarding how they looked or dressed, rather they were welcomed continually each time they attended. It was only through the Holy Spirit that the changes were made (at least in 2 of them). The 2 that remain are faithful to church attendance, church activities and soul winning.

A truly saved Christian will not condone or advocate that a saved person (or his/her children) go out and do worldly things, whether it be getting a tat or a piercing, going to the movie house, etc. I find it very hard to believe that a true Christian would even consider and willingly go and want to be like the world because we are called to be separate. Yes, we are all sinners, but those of us who are saved are saved sinners, and in those times when we start to think about doing something sinful, we should not feel right about it, rather we should be feeling conviction about what we are about to do, think, etc. If/when we do something, then we should feel convicted and should repent of whatever it was we did, thought or said.

No one's driving people away, farouk. If they come they are welcome - no one's going to go up to them and say "your tattoo is of the devil." If they don't like what is preached they are still welcome, but we're not going to change the plain preaching of separation from the world just to scratch the ears of anyone who comes. If preaching in love what we believe the Bible says drives people away, so be it. We don't plan on doing so, or try to do so, but it's a natural consequence of teaching 'all the counsel of God.'

And what you think of as personal preference may be my Biblical convictions.

Yes, it does answer the question. The principles behind the verses apply. Nowhere in the Bible does it say men shouldn't shave. Not even in that verse. That verse is simply discussing the pagan STYLE of beard that God didn't want the Israelites to emulate. He didn't want the Israelites to emulate the cutting pagans did (and still do...), either. He doesn't want Christians to look like the world. He doesn't want us to have the philosophy and mindset of the world. Because the world is at enmity with God. And there is plenty of scripture to back that up - verses in that vein have already been quoted.

Thanks John. I must have been typing my reply as you were posting yours. I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you.

However, my reply may have been a little harsh....I'm just tired of the few that come here, trying to bring and justify their worldly ways.

It still isn't condoning earrings. It's just making a statement. Neither does it condemn them (on wives, as the passage speaks of). This passage doesn't refer to male ear piercing. There are other passages that do, but they can't be seen as condoning men wearing earrings...

Again, to repeat, I didn't say it referred to boys.

The Old Testament does refer to male ear piercing elsewhere, though.

Its not about snubbing anyone, its about standing with God and His principles. If I were invited to a wedding at a church and before hand I knew they were going to have music that was ungodly I would not go, if I were asked why I would not or did not attend, I would have to be honest.


I fail to understand why people that do not attend church want a church wedding, I suppose its about social standings, and not about Jesus.


One thing that needs to be kept out of Jesus' Churches is worldly weddings. Many of those worldly people have their very own idea about wedding vows. For example, many women do not want the words, 'serve, and obey you as long as we both shall live.' And some of them do not want nothing about God in their wedding.

Amen!! :goodpost:

*sigh* You are just obsessed with jewelry. That chapter is all about spiritual adultery...maybe not a good reference to use? :Bolt: