Bro K

Ah, I see you're going waaaaay over to the other side of the street, to try and prove your point! There are different degrees of sin! Yes all sin grieves the heart of God, but there are certain things that He hates, or are abomination unto the LORD!
Oh and BTW, IMHO, if you'd slow down your typing speed, you'd make less mistakes and what you say would look better.

What was a sin in the Old Testament Days is a sin in the New Testament Days.

About stoning someone who commits adultery, no, the New Testament is clear, grace came in, how we deal with sin is different, we offer grace to that person, yet if they be a member of the church we attend there be certain steps that should be taken, example, 1 Corinthians 5 and the church member committing fornication, yet not only fornication, Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Yes, it clearly seems what is a sin them is a sin now, yet the harsh punishment was laid aside, yet it is still suppose to be dealt with, for a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Of course few churches deal with such things properly, many doing as they did at Corinth, ignoring it, even glorying in it.

Posted by OFIB:

We're not talking about that here! In case you forgot the topic, here it is!
Deut. 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.


It is impossible to to honestly discuss any bibical subject without it!!!!!!! II Tim 2:15 is a major bibical principle we are commanded to apply when studing bibical doctrine.


Who can argue with scripture? Apparently, lots of people who are abomination unto the LORD! The way I understand it, taking the scripture as it is, not only is what the person doing, abomination, but the person who does this, is abomination unto the LORD! Said person (whether a man waring a woman's garment, or v/v,) needs to repent, confess and forsake such wickedness and live holy unto the LORD! They can do so, if they'll just take the King James Bible as it is and not try to find a way around it, to live their wicked ways! Don't think I've heard much about that part, in these pages!


First of all; we should not argue the scriptures. If one cannot converse with another with a loving and respectful attitude, they should be silence.

Secondly; some like to place emphasis on the word 'Abomination' and 'what was valid back then, is just as valid today'.
Abomination:As previously noted, this places emphasis on the sin. No doubt there are some sins more grievous than other sins; however, sin is sin.. When God tells us not to do something, and we do it; then we have sinned.

Valid then/Valid today: If this is true, then some of us would be dead since God told them to stone to death a unrepenting rebellish son. If a lady in the church commits adultery,are we to stone her to death. If your brother(in flesh) dies we are to take his wife to be our wife.

Yes Sir and that's what we're doing! See ya in a few days!

Well, we can all certainly agree that the Bible commands women to be modest. My wife does wear pants, though very rarely, and if someone were to say that she's wicked or ungoldly for wearing modest pants the only thing it would prove was how much of a moron they were.

Anyways, back to what we can agree on, which is modesty. If you're a lady here and you wear pants and want a little help in the area of modesty, I'd encourage you to check out an article she wrote on the subject. It's not about whether pants are ok or not, it's about the best way to find modest pants, even though the best way to go is to find a modest skirt (I can't tell you how many women I've seen who think pants are wicked but they dress immodestly with their skirts). It's written by a lady, for ladies.

Here's the article

By the way, if anyone so much as hints at the idea that my wife is not a lady or that she's wicked for wearing pants, I'll charitably reach through your computer sceen, slap you across the face, pound you into a little ball, and toss you into a trash can with my magical powers. Consider yourself warned.

REF POST #149

Well, perhaps you only meant to reference the one person who said it. But, since those 7 pages weren't written by just the one, it's a natural assumption that all of those misguided folk who believe that pants on women are wrong believe they are ungodly. If that wasn't your intention with what reads to me like sarcasm, I apologize.

"Since those women who wear pants are ungodly.....there may be seven more pages!!!!!"
I try to keep my postings short, to the point and biblically based. However at times I do express my personal opinions. The above statement was meant to convey the old saying "opening a can of worms". As I was growing up: women did not wear pants; neither did they use lipstick and/or makeup; neither did they wear earrings or jewelry(except wedding rings and watches); they only taught the young children and they kept silence in church. How would women of those days judge christian women of today?? We never played sports on Sunday or did any type of work unless it was necessary. Oh yes; we didn't have TV


Post #81: The question was asked should the temple of God look like the temple of the devil. You extrapolated from that to say: "A temple signifies an abode. If a woman wears pants, is she therefore abiding in the temple of the devil? IF so, then she must be unsaved." Absolute misapplication of what was referenced. It was clear in the post that the poster said that we are the temple - we are the abode - of the living God. Basically you were trying to imply that the poster meant a woman who wears pants is unsaved. And that's not accurate. If that isn't what you meant, then I apologize. But it was a misapplication of what was said.

No misapplication. The question asked, implied that those who wore pants were presenting themselves like the temple of the devil. Therefore I stand behind my response. Is there such a thing as the "temple of the devil"? If so; can a saved person abide in the temple of the devil??

"Some good points here. God's Word applies to everyone today just as it applied to everyone back then and in between. God was well aware of different clothing styles around the world past, present and future."

Yes the Word does apply to everyone. However, II Tim 2:15 tells us to rightly divide the word of truth.

And you're adding to those pages...Only one person called Christian women who wear pants ungodly regardless...perhaps you should be careful to be more accurate in your statements.

Wow, seven pages on whether it's ok for women to wear pants or not.

Actually what was happening was that women were donning men's armor and men were donning women's clothing as they prepared to worship in their temple...

BroK, that's an excellent example of dodging! Ever thought of becoming an "Evangelist?" Sounds like you'd fit in with most so-called "Evangelists" I know and how they don't have an opinion on anything, so they can get more meetings!

Down thru the years I've noticed that knowledge has increased, while understanding has decreased.

It's been said "Preaching IS NOT a gift God gives to some; but Preaching IS a commandment God gives to all his children". Therefore if one is a "Preacher" does that automatically make him qualified to be a "Pastor"?? What Think Ye ???

Perhaps the preacher, pastor, is suppose to already have his children raised before he enters the ministry. In fact, until his children are raised one cannot tell if he rules his house well, he is not proven. In fact, he really does not have the time needed to put into a church until his children are grown.

Seems many churches pays little attention to the verses that gives the qualification for a New Testament pastor.

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sOBer, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

When taking promises/commandments from the OT; there are questions one must ask: To whom is He speaking to? Why is He giving the promises/commandments? Under what circumstances is He speaking? I've heard it said that there are over 3,000 commandments in the OT; we know that the Bible states that if one is guilty of one, he he guilty of all. Then we know that Christ said that He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. We need to be VERY careful when we attempt to apply the OT law to NT teaching.

In regards to OP subject; I can name over three local pastors whose daughters have messed up their lives by becoming pregnant. Reminds me of hearing about Billy Sunday and how his sons had prOBlem with alcohol.

Just as important: The family 'structure' that we have here in America is very different from that of Israel in the OT. When our children marries, they leave the nest and start their own families. This is not the case in most other countries; in which they normally live in the same community all their lives, and the family elder (Grandfathers, great grandfathers) still carry a lot of authority over the entire family. I found this to be true while stationed in S. Korea many years ago.

O-K, the third time's the charm! BroK, I thought your favorite preacher was Paul Manis!

My favorite preacher?? My wife.......Just in case she looking !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Teaching and helps. To me; preaching is more of a commandment than a gift.

We all have OUR checklist as to what fellow christians should be (how they act, talk, dress, pray, etc etc). PrOBlems arise when (1): OUR checklist is not in tune with God's checklist (Bible) and (2): we opening condemn others through a "holier than thou" attitude. What creates more friction within the Family is not what is said, but how it is said. What creates most friction without the Family is not what is said, but how it is said. I try to treat a lost person with the same respect as I would want to be treated with. Ever wonder why its so hard to get a lost person to come to church!!!!!!!!

"but our appearance portrays our heart": This can very well be true; and it can very well not be true. It all depends on who is doing the looking. Only God can see the heart. I believe many attends church in the very best; but their heart is far from God. Yep. Only God sees the heart. Man looks on the outward appearance, though. And because that is what we see, it is vital. After all, we are the temple of the Living God: should the temple of the living God look like the temple of the devil?

A temple signifies an abode. If a woman wears pants, is she therefore abiding in the temple of the devil? IF so, then she must be unsaved.


He is also the One who stated "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together" Yep. But He never said it was an abomination to do so.

True, he never used the word 'abomination' in vs 11; but He did say 'THOU SHALT NOT'. Just as he did in vs 5.

Needless to say we could keep this going for some time. So let me give my final statement:

"When God says "Thou shalt not" and one does what God says "Thou shalt not": HE HAS SINNED AGAINST GOD." He instructs in II Tim 2:15 to rightly divide the word of truth.

I have not stated in this thread whether I believe that wearing pants is a sin or not. I've found it very helpful to keep an open mind to both sides of the discussion and not cloud it up with only MY opinions. I know of many godly women who wear pants and are highly respected. Many of those are pastor's wives. So to keep myself out of trouble, I keep my opinions to myself.

Thanks for the conservation' but its time to move on.

May God richly Bless You and Yours

Ah, but you assume here that those who believe women shouldn't wear pants are condemning. I in no way have (but you forget: God says man looks on the outward appearance. Yes, God judges the heart...but our appearance portrays our heart). God's Word speaks for itself - He is the One Who stated that a woman wearing that which pertains to a man is an abomination to Him, and vice versa.

"So sorry! It was late when I posted that, although that is no excuse! Thanks for the catch."

No prOBlem, we have all been there.

"vs.5 is teaching the principle of gender identification, a principle that is continued in the NT in various places."

For the most part I don't have trouble identifying the gender of an individual based soley upon them wearing pants. I have had to take a double-look based on their hair length.


"vs. 11 is teaching the principles of separation and of purity, principles that are also continued in the NT."

I don't believe we can separate this verse from the rest. Begining at verse 1 up to verse 11, God states "thou shalt not'.


Dealing with these type of verses, some believe that God will convict an individual's heart on whether its right or wrong. I do not believe God will convict one that it is wrong(sin) and then not convict others who are dealing with the same subject.

Some believe that we change from generation to generation; ie, how we dress, how we conduct church services, etc. This is true; however, God tells us that He is God and he changes not and his Word is forever settled in heaven.

Just like everyone else, I have My little checklist which I believe everyone should adhere to. BUT I do not condemn others who do not meet what I think is right. For example: If a man wears a suit on Sunday morning, he should wear it Sunday evening, Wednesday night, revival time, etc. A man's hair should not be as long as to cover his ears or his shirt collar.

My conclusion is this: If I judge myself as much as I judge others (I know the Bible says Judge Not), I will be 100% better off.

God Bless

Here's one I've had trouble getting. How can God love the lost man but have His wrath abiding on Him? I've heard people say that God loved the world at Calvary, but that God does not love a man who is in his sins. That's doesn't sit right with me.

John 3:36, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Welcome Aboard..... Do you prefer William or Bill

Could you explain what you mean/imply by using the word "Restoration". Thanks and Welcome Aboard.