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anotherjeff

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  1. Thank you for responding to my original question!
  2. To be sure I am learning something here, it's not what I was thinking I was asking about... but non-the-less it appears my sentences are not able to be understood to a large degree or something. What I am learning is that however I am saying stuff, people are wanting a surface thing to pick at, to help them understand my question. I think. I don't know what the problem is. I give up. Thanks anyway for your time and thoughts.
  3. Well let me try again. I'll use the name Bro. Cloud for an example. If Bro. Cloud is building his KJV Defense, and one of the pillars of that defense is the utter importance of every single word needing to be accurate, (otherwise it is inaccurate) which is true evidence of the preservation of the Word. [i agree for now despite a few questions, but I want to hear more] Then Bro. Cloud misquotes (saying the lion lays down with the lamb) those accurate words in the KJB that he just got done pounding his Bible across the pulpit with, and demonstrates: 1. Accuracy is not -relevant but the idea is. Which is the case of the anti-KJV position 2. He is quoting someone else other than the Bible which he claims at that moment to be preaching from. 3. He has learned a behavior and doctrine by proxy not by diligent study. [i decide his lack of consistency overpowers his defense, and I end up throwing out most of what he says as unreliable in this case] Now if several pastors in the same denomination/group display the same twisted scripture, you know they too didn't get it from diligent Bible study, but are parroting someone else other than the Bible, so any other false teaching or mistake made by the source of the problem they are quoting will also be taught. False teaching begets more false teaching. So if Bro. Cloud in this case tells me He is really studying the issue, then displays he is not studying but rather re-telling a story. Then he is also misrepresenting himself as the one doing the research. I'll use Bro. Cloud again in another example. Say that Bro. Cloud writes the book on repentance, and the importance of the Cross in preaching the Gospel to the lost. [i agree, have a couple definition questions but want to hear more] Then I watch Bro. Clouds "Gospel" video from his website for example, and OOPS wouldn't you know it, no mention of Repentance or the Cross in his Gospel message video and demonstrates; 1. Accuracy isn't really necessary 2. We can proclaim the Gospel how we want, not how it is written. 3. Toss out his book on the importance of Repentance cuz not even he believes it is important. [i decide his lack of consistency overpowers his defense, and throw out most of what he says as unreliable in this case] One last example and I'll use Bro. Cloud again. Say that Bro. Cloud gives a diligent offense against CCM. Warning to watch out for even the very tiny details, and exposes the utter folly and foolishness of even using music produced by unsaved ungodly people for your church background music, such as "special music". It really matters he pounds over and over again from the pulpit. [i agree, and want to send him a bucket of money because I agree so much] Then Bro. Cloud uses ungodly music composers in the background music of his Gospel Video on his website, and doesn't bother giving credit to the music composer either, which would be a copy-write infringement in this case and who knows more about copy-write infringement than Way of Life which has a warning about copy-write on every document they produce? (do as I say, not as I do, is a form of hypocrisy in this example and not Biblical) [i decide his lack of consistency overpowers his defense, and throw out most of what he says as unreliable in this case] Now if I was trusting Bro. Cloud as a reliable source for my own KJB defense, my defense material fails the reliability test because Bro Cloud has proven unreliable in these examples. So now I have a bunch of questions with possibly faulty answers that need wrestled with again. Does that do a better job of explaining I am not trying to question the Bible? I'm fishing for more reliable information than I have previously found, but I think the whole house of cards is about to crumble.
  4. Sorry, the point was that no matter if you use the KJB or not, it is necessary to be certain that what you are calling Biblical truth from the pulpit, is actually found in the Bible. It's just that if so and so is making a habit of twisting scripture, it really doesn't matter if they use the KJB or not. Thus- having the right words alone doesn't make you right, if you don't understand or use the right words correctly. Jesus didn't rebuke the Scribes and Pharisees for using the wrong version of the Bible for example, but for applying the wrong use of the right words they had. So what I am finding is that those I have asked in the IFB of which I agree with some of what they are saying cause me to get thrown into false teacher mode, when they misquote and twist scripture. I also get thrown into false teacher mode when other pastors claim, "you can't really trust what these Bible words mean, so let my superior knowledge clear up these mistakes".
  5. Thanks for taking the time to answer and post a link. I'm already per-prejudiced against several of the authors cited in the article, such as Geisler, Kenyon, Metzger, Archer and I bet if I research some of the others I will find most of the authors to be in the same "camp", and generally of the opinion that it is their duty to correct the corrupted (in their opinion) Word of God. The article displayed a general lack of accuracy in their research, and equate the Bible right along with secular work. as if the Bible was just another literary piece full of mistakes, and it's OK. This line of thinking is problematic from the start. It introduces the idea that we suppose the Bible to be in error and in need of correction. It drives their conclusions and that is based on unbelief. It taints everything, and I have read and listened to this position, but am not satisfied it is reliable enough to trust. (it is after all a position built on distrust) What does someone say from the position that the Bible is accurate, we don't need to correct it, rather we need to fully understand what is said. So the question is more directed to the KJVO or KJB defender who has studied this issue, because I want to see the opposite attitude displayed, if it really is possible. I listened to a Debate between Bart Ehrman and James White, and I don't think White really answered Ehrman question "Which one of all the copies of the copies of the copies is really right?" White says, something like "Gods word is preserved somewhere in all of those, isn't that great?". This leave me to wonder who is the person or persons that can finally bring me Gods real words then? It's just where that line of thinking goes. To say a doctrine here or there isn't really changed isn't an argument that makes sense either, Many churches can't seem to agree on most things, even salvation. Why? Is it a version issue? The more I study, the more I am convinced it's not the version itself exactly, but the heart that comes to the Word of God, without trust and faith. Ready to correct and change what isn't understood or agreed with. That attitude is prevalent in both camps I am finding! How many times have you heard "the lion will lay down with the lamb" for example, a teaching popular in IFB and similar-ish denominations? Now, go find it in your Bible, any Bible. It isn't there. So how many other popular teachings have I embraced that are not in the KJB or any other Bible? The IFB preacher demands absolute submission (as I have read in some of their doctrinal statements and is the brunt of the 20/20 thing on TV or in the news recently), but fails to Shepard and watch over the flock and the Truth he is supposed to be preaching, such as spouting the erroneous "Gap Certainty" which leads to doubt in the Word of God. I've lost hope that Bro. Cloud can answer tough questions like presented by Bart Ehrman, but a KJB defender should answer him.
  6. I think this is right too and your conscience bears witness. The point is the heart not just the words used. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) (Romans 2:15) You know because your conscience bugs you, or you try to shut it off and pretend it didn't really bug you that much. But God does indeed know. Our problem is we create a god that will just overlook our lil ole' self. Which is Idolatry, and one sin made 2 just that easy. Well it really gets worse because once you self justify that sin, then you go on tell yourself a little white lie like, no one besides me and God knows, and God will forgive me. And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. (Joshua 24:19-20) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Hebrews 10:26) (all scripture needs context to help you understand clearly and right now is a good time to read the whole section) God won't forgive you. He can't, He is perfectly Just too. (Just as in Justice must be paid) Your sin must be weighed in the balance, and if you are a Christian, God bloodied His Son instead of you, He paid for your little sin with His blood as He cried with a loud voice... (Mr 15:34) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23) Sin has an extremely eternally high price. It's remedy is stunningly costly!
  7. It is available for free in e-Sword, you would need to install that first if you haven't already, and here is the commentary page there at e-sword. e-sword commentary page
  8. 1st thank you for asking "Have you ever trusted Jesus Christ and accepted Him as Savior and Lord of your life?" Yes! Would that make me saved? I was also baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, would that finalize the deal? I was also baptized again and spoke in tongues after being prayed for to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, would that provide the evidence I really was saved for some? I spent may years tithing and going to church and doing lots of good deeds, is that evidence for others? My answers to the question you asked don't really answer the question however, because my first and second response were referring to my Mormon conversion, then I referred to my Pentecostal type conversion, then my Calvary Chapel conversion. Non of those conversions are actually Biblical or true to Saving Faith however good it could sound on the surface to complete the requirements of said religions. To expose my hidden agenda... I've gone through a lot of liars, wolves, and "hirelings" trying to get to the bottom of what is the Real Gospel, and True Saving Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, what Bible version is the one to use, and so on, and I do take 1 John 4:1 "try the spirits" quite literally, as we all must do. As part of my test, I just use the Bible... Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:2-3) When the pastor refuses to confess the Lord Jesus Christ, and won't actually tell me the Gospel but turns the question on to me or something else, I have my answer just like that. (The Bible is so awesome like that!) It really helps get past a lot of false teachers, and the Bible is reliable, unlike a "burning in the bosom" or other so called evidence including do they use a KJB or not. (they should use a KJB but just because they do, doesn't make them automatically right) So yes absolutely, I am framing the questions as actually loaded to the pastors I mentioned, because I am not an IFB (yet?) and I am looking at what it means to be an IFB from all angels because I have been abused, deceived fooled, lied to, and these questions have eternal consequences. It really truly does matter what you "think" the Gospel is. If the Gospel is offensive to you, think about why. If the Gospel you proclaim isn't the one in the Bible, it would be another Gospel and not Biblical. right? But what about my original question? Is anyone going to answer that? Specifically and only if you have or are willing to look at the KDTOC commentary please. This is old testament commentary about the copyist errors (their words not mine) in the Hebrew text, not the KJB per say. [i tried to briefly answer all the posts up until now in this one post]
  9. We all have a "too limited" view of sin in general! My neighbor says... "well if I were to kill you, and no one saw me, such that there were no witnesses and I didn't leave any evidence for example, then I wouldn't go to jail. I couldn't be convicted of a crime without evidence! O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. (Matthew 12:34) A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. (Luke 6:45) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. (Matthew 12:37) Sin is committed in the heart first and foremost. All of our sin begins there. If the outward deed of sin was all there was, then an outward payment (legal sacrifice in the OT) would satisfy the guilt and judgment and death that the wage of sin earned. The problem has always been that a simple covering or atonement for sin, by the priest on the altar, has never satisfied the eternal payment required for crimes against the Eternal God. God knows each-and-every-thing. God created all things. God knows all things intimately or absolutely thoroughly. Nothing, absolutely positively guaranteed--> nothing <- is hidden from Him at all in any way. He is totally perfect, with utter complete and magnificent incomprehensible perfection! He knows your every thought, even before you think them, He knows everything that personally and well. The act of sin, is an outward manifestation of what already occurred in the heart. The Law was given to display and manifest this fact. Eve was deceived in the Garden before she ate of the fruit. The sin committed before eating the fruit. Not believing God, not trusting God. Thinking God has cut you out of the loop, you know, held something back from you that you deserve and need. Satan might say it like this in todays terms "God ain't really all that! He is holding out on you so you won't get all you want and need. He doesn't really care about you He just doesn't want you to know as much as He does. He is just a Control freak! You are better than that! You deserve to be all you can be." So when we use the terms moron and idiot, to describe our fellow man, made in the image of God, by our loving and caring Creator who sent His only Begotten Son to suffer and die and take the punishment justly due to them/us upon Himself if they repent and believe... we are declaring our own importance above theirs. We self justify our position above theirs. Instead of spewing love and adoration, we spew hatred, and self importance. Did you die for that idiot and moron? no. Christ did. While they were yet sinners. Murder of the heart, yes. Physical murder? yes. Why? Either Christ must die for them, or they will die without Christ for an eternity in hell under the wrath of God, what did you do to warn them? Were you too busy to care about how much more important you were? That is hatred pure and simple. The wages of sin is death. Until our view of God is raised as high as it should be, we will always devalue His Sacrifice, because we value our sin as more important and not really a big deal. Not as big a deal as it really is in Gods eyes.
  10. We have found that there are cases in which misapplying the KJB does lead to false conclusions. One example of this; The pastor holds to the "Gap Theory" he says is a "certainty" because of the following 2 verses. He says because the word replenish is used in both places it is obvious there is a need to ->re<- plenish. The Gap theory leaves millions of years someplace not mentioned in the Bible, and it is difficult to believe the rest of the Bible if the beginning of it can't be trusted! (I personally do not agree with the Gap theory at all) Just a simple look up in the Websters 1828 dictionary, defines the word replensih, and eliminates the problem. But if said pastor who studied this out over the years didn't take the time to look at the dictionary meaning of the word replenish, and teaches something like well... "if science said it's true, it is!" <-- It literally makes me sick. It's like saying you can trust science but you can't trust the Bible, and all the while pounding the pulpit the Bible is true, the KJB is inerrant, and just believe it just as it is written. This attitude is what I have discovered to be coming to the right conclusion for the wrong reason. As far as I know how to understand it. It's right to believe the Bible, but it's wrong to not understand the words. But this case is not isolated, and I have asked several IFB pastors to explain things like "why don't you preach repentance and the Cross?" only to be fired upon for trying to catch the preacher in his words... IFB pastors have really been difficult to even talk to, because they just turn their back to you if you haven't been baptized by them. Most (actually all I have contacted) ignore and exclude you, passing the determination that "you are not asking a genuine question and are being divisive". "What is the Gospel you preach?" is met with suspicion and dread. This is the running case of evidence with the IFB pastors I have asked, and most if not all just point to their statement of beliefs. Not a single one has ever even tried to find out if I am actually saved at all. Even after I specifically asked them to tell me the Gospel... So there are problems that do occur when the KJB is not defined accurately. I'm not going to list other stuff, I really didn't come to do that because there are just a lot of difficult things that I have questions about that are not edifying to a public audience, and yet they need a host of Godly Counselors to wrestle I think. I've gotten into the habit of just ignoring and forgetting the issues. Rather than list the copyist errors listed in the KDTOC, I really am hoping to hear from someone who has looked into or is willing to look into this commentary and just do a simple search of it using the term --> error <--. I'm not really looking for an answer of each item there really, I have the same opinion Annie does on this particular matter (Thank you Annie!), and yet I just want to dig a little deeper because my own opinion is not satisfying me on this.
  11. I'm not special enough to post to the "real" KJB board, so that is the reason I posted here. I won't be allowed to answer once it gets moved, but maybe someone can answer this in a way I won't have to ask more questions. I ran into another stumper of a question in my diligent search for the truth about the Bible version issue. The problem is what to do with the "copyist errors"? I was looking through Sword Searcher Program that I got from WayofLife.org when I accidentally found several references to such copyist errors found in the old testament in the Keil and Delitzsch Old Testament Commentary. I ran a simple search in this commentary using just the word "error" and got back 332 hits. Not all of these hits are copyist errors, but there are plenty listed. I asked Bro. Cloud at Wayoflife.org to help me understand this, but he said "I have never looked at those, sorry." Is there anyone here who has looked into this? There is no need to try and convince me of the superiority of the KJB, I'm already there, I just don't know how to answer stuff like this. Thanks!
  12. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewi...

  13. I must have signed up for an account some time ago, and totally forgot I had an account here until someone wanted to send me private pictures today from here. I guess there is no "safe place" away from scammers, spammers, and porn dealers. The Bible isn't just a religious book with some good ideas, and the God of the Bible isn't just another myth among many gods. God will pour out His Wrath and Judgment, and if you think you will escape because you say religious things, you are horrible eternally mistaken. I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (Luke 13:5) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8) Listen up, God absolutely and perfectly knows your every single thought! Every idle word ill be judged, let alone those willful thoughts of lust and rebellion and hatred. That includes all hypocrites who are pretending they trust in the Living Christ, while they perform and act upon their greed and lust, and self satisfaction. You may not actually believe the Bible, but you will find out with certainty that it was absolutely true! Don't be with those who gnash their teeth in hell because their pride demanded they be right and the Bible false. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. (Luke 17:33) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8) So hannahmajzoub; May you take this solemn warning to heart! If you continue in your sin, you will suffer without hope for all eternity, please don't reject what God Himself has done for you, because you absolutely will without question or hesitation regret your rejection of Christ for all eternity.

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