CPR

America already accepts more legal immigrants each year than any other country in the world.

American citizens are required to provide ID any time a law officer asks for such.

Of course, the last point should not be done until after appropriate medical attention is given.

Also, you are COMPLETELY wrong about the new law. I've read all 17 pages of the Arizona law (http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf) and there is not one word nor even hint that a person's racial, ethnic, or cultural appearance should be used. The section that is so widely misquoted by the liberals actually says:

"B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373©."

Basically, if a police officer is engaged in another law enforcement activity with a person and there is suspicion the person is an illegal alien then "a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person." The only change here from the current federal statute is that the State of Arizona is saying when their is suspicion they must try to determine, rather than try to determine if they get around to it or only when ICE is present.

Also, after this initial bill was passed, they've changed the language to insure there is not doubt that racial profiling is absolutely prohibited (even though it was already addressed in the original bill to some extent).

I'm very disappointed CPR that you didn't research the facts.

This young woman was wrong because she disrespected her grandmother. Violence breads violence, and I don't believe that either party handled the situation appropriately. While this girl may be an adult in the eyes of the law, according to the article she is still in high school and should be forced to OBey the rules as long as she is dependent on her parents/grandparents. If she wants to be treated with respect as an adult she must act like one, but slapping her in the face isn't the way to convey that message. OBviously it didn't work, or we wouldn't be reading about it in the news.

To me, the resolution to this mess is to enforce the laws already on the books AND increase the number of immigrants we allow to become citizens to reduce the need to come here illegally.

- Secure the boarders and perform 100% due diligence at the boarder crossings to determine citizenship status and passport visa status.
- Those currently here illegally should be charged under the law and sent back to the country of origin (along with any dependent children) and they should be on a denial list to visit our fair country again for 10 years.
- ICE should perform electronic audits of all employer's employee records and require severe consequences for all company staff responsible for the hiring or employment of employees found to be here illegally.
- For each and every government handout the person should be required to show residence and proof of status, if none is forthcoming call ICE.
- Each time a driver is stopped for a moving violation, they must show driver's license and proof of status (the drivers license may be the proof of status), if none is forthcoming call ICE.
- Each time a person is arrested the person should be required to show proof of residence and status, if none is forthcoming call ICE.
- Each time a child is a new enrollee in a public school the parent should be required to show proof of residence and status for the child and themself, if none is forthcoming call ICE.
- Each time a person requests medical attention at a hospital the person should be required to show proof of residence and status, if none is forthcoming call ICE.

You seeing a pattern emerge here? I'm very tired of paying $40,000 a year in taxes so that millions of people who break into my house can come in, threaten my family, trespass and tread all over my land and furniture, get an education for free that I'm paying for, eat out of my refrigerator for free when I paid for the food, get free use of my doctor while I pick up the bill and complain about my generosity; all the while I've had to push my own children and grandchildren out of my house and into the neighborhood to fend for themselves because there is no more room left for my kids in my house due to trespassers.

I don't know what the answer is because certainly an American citizen should enjoy the protection of his/her government and not face the unfortunate events as that rancher in Arizona. However, the law doesn't really make sense, and may even violate the fourth amendment of illegal search and seizure. At best, it is pointless, because, due to the fourth amendment, no American citizen has to show identification or proof of citizenship on demand. Now we all know that state laws do not trump federal laws. Therefore, if a legal person were asked for their identification, they would be well within their rights to decline, thus rendering the law moot.

Also, another take on the law that was intended to draw a laugh but will also make you think: I was watching Saturday Night Live the other week, and on Weekend Update this was said in reference to the new law in AZ, "There has never been a WWII movie that didn't include the words 'show me your papers.' Every time someone says 'show me your papers' Hitler's family gets a residual check."

Let's find a thoughtful solution and not stoop to that level, America.

Please understand that we did not hide that we were a church group and the friendships we created with the people we were helping offered us multiple opportunities to share the gospel. Our agenda was not explicitly "soul winning" but only to share God's love as Jesus taught. I don't understand how that is "filthy rags". How do you expect someone to worry about their eternal soul when they have to choose between food and medicine and their floor is collapsing beneath their feet? As Christians we are called to love one another and care for the "least of these." There is a lot more to it than simply "soul winning." The Great Commission is one verse. Not to say it's not important, but there are many more about love and taking care of your fellow man.

Just another example of a corporation that hurts the public and does not take responsibility. Not only are they hurting the fragile Gulf Coast ecosystem, but what about the men and women who work in the fishing/shrimping, etc industry that has virtually come to a halt due to this mess? Btw, it's shrimp/crawfish season. What about the prices of shellfish that are going to be driven through the roof? Of course gas prices will go up which is a concern for everyone. How do you plan to make all of that right, BP?

If the girl is 18 they are both adults (though not acting like it) and should both be suffering the adult consequences of battery. I assure you if that young woman went to jail as well she would drop the charges in a hurry.

I think that the best thing to do is let your life be your witness. I know that most people on hear feel differently, and I respect your opinion. One of my favorite verses is John 13:35 " By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." It is important to be loving and gentle. You don't have to beat people over the head with it, that can turn people off. Bringing people to Jesus isn't a sprint it's a marathon. You have to be kind and loving to everyone you come in contact with. This attitude will create appropriate opportunities to share your faith with others. Again, I know most of you will disagree, so this is just my opinion and experience.

Peace be with you!

Safe travels!

I know this is a bit of an old thread, but I felt a need to comment on a few things.

I grew up a United Methodist and still hold that church in a special place in my heart. I was never taught nor did I hear that a Christian could lose their salvation, however, I am really not sure what the official position of the UMC is. I do know that the UMC encourages each member to ask questions and study for themselves. That is, there is a place for inquisitive minds and for people to search the Bible for themselves. You could ask 10 different Methodists about 1 question (not how one gets saved, but another issue) and get 10 different answers.

Also, Methodists do not, and I repeat DO NOT believe that baptism saves. Baptism is a sacrament, which is an outward sign of God's grace. A person is saved when they make a conscious choice to accept that grace.

I'm also not sure how you can say that "a great many Methodist Churches stand for very little." Most Methodist churches are very active in the world and their communities and are show God's love on this earth like few people I have ever met. Ever heard of Salkehatchie? It's a program that I participated in and is still going on today. Youth and adults spend parts of their summers sleeping on gym floors and repairing homes for people who barely have homes to begin with. It's about helping people pure and simple. I'm not sure how you can stand for something more Christ-like than that.

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:35

I completely agree. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a Christian home, so even after I was saved I had the opportunity to continue to learn more and increase my understanding. I do know from my experiences in church as a child and a teen that there can exist a sort of reverse peer pressure that can be good when it makes children eager to go to church and learn, but can also be not so good if it causes children to make decisions that they may not fully understand. From the perspective of a teen it can be very easy to get swept up in the energy and emotion of youth services and especially youth camps. Many teens come back from these experiences with stories of "getting saved" or telling of promises they have made to start a Bible study at school or pray for X hours a week only to quickly forget these things as they go back to their usual routines. These events for children and youth can be very valuable but they can also be very artificial and fleeting, even though I believe they are for the most part well meaning. I'm not suggesting that these events be done away with, but I believe that parents, teachers and pastors should do their best to determine a child's level of understanding, and help and encourage him or her as the child expresses interest and ability to understand.

Sorry if that was rambling!

I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to definitively state that Roman Catholic Church is the "whore of Babylon," or that any other entity we know to day fits that mold. It may indeed be that which St. John is referring to, but I just don't believe we are at that point in the history of existance in which we can definitively know. Though for a short time the Anglican Church recognized the Bishop of Rome as the chief among equals, it was never truely a part of the RCC. I can't think of any of their extra-biblical beliefs which we do or have ever subscribed to. We had our own distinct members in attendence at the early Church councils and have a clearly defined history exclusive of the RCC.

I can't speak for what other Anglicans or other Anglican Churches believe. All I do know is that we are all supposed to, and my own Church does, subscribe to the 39 articles. Considering any yokel with a computer can create a website and put anything he or she wants on it, I wouldn't put too much stock in what you find online. If you want to know what we believe, merely look to the Bible. If you need a clearer statement of our position on certain topics, look to the 39 articles, which are spelled out in the Book of Common Prayer.

Here's a link to them: http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html

Hi,

I was reading the posts on age of accountability, and they got me to thinking about events in my life with salvation and baptism. Since it's not really related to age of accountability I started a new topic.

Some of you may know from reading my introduction that I was Baptist (SBC) as a young child and was raised most of my life in the United Methodist Church (am now Episcopalian). Anyway, I was first saved and baptized in the Baptist church at the tender age of 5. I was just thinking about how young this is. While I remember it vividly, and I talked to my parents and the pastor who all determined that I understood salvation, I am wondering if most Baptist churches would consider a child of 5 too young for believer's baptism. I know that all Baptist churches are different and it likely depends on the child in question (also SBC likely differs from IFB in this matter), but I was just thinking about this and curious if maybe it's not all that uncommon. I don't really know since I'm not still in the Baptist church.

Also, while I know without a doubt that I understood the basics of salvation at that age and was truly saved, I was able to reaffirm my salvation (not get re-saved, because I believe that I never lose my salvation) but grow and reaffirm it on an adult level as a teenager through confirmation. I'm not trying to start a debate on the pros and cons of confirmation but it was a wonderful opportunity for someone like me, who was saved as a young child, to be able to reaffirm that in front of the church as an adult.

May God be with you!

Hi everyone. I'm pretty new here, so I just wanted to say hello and comment on a few things that I read here.

On the subject of predetermined readings, there are certain topics or "themes" for each Sunday given in the BCP. This ensures not only that the liturgical calendar is followed and there are appropriate readings for Advent, Easter, etc, but, as PTwild mentioned, that the entire Bible is read. If you visit different Episcopal churches on the same Sunday, you will find similar readings, but different sermons, as each priest writes his own sermon with inspiration from the Holy Spirit.

Something that I would also like to seriously ask, and I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just curious, why is there so much debate about if Episcopalians are saved? The way i understand it, the requirements of salvation are the same for all of us. We choose denominations/churches based on what we are comfortable with or accustomed to and what we prefer. If any of you are concerned about what the Episcopal Church teaches about salvation, I would encourage you to take a look at the 39 Articles. Actually, you could just read the Bible because Episcopalians teach that the Bible is the authority.

Peace be with you.

I'm new here and just wanted to say hello. I was Baptist as a young child, but was mostly raised (and confirmed) in the United Methodist Church. I became Episcopalian in college and have been ever since. I am saved by grace through faith. I enjoy discussing topics related to faith and the Bible and the topics I have read on these boards have been very interesting and thought provoking, so that's why I'm here. I hope that's ok. I look forward to getting to know everyone.
Peace be with you.