Live4Him

I don't know about Piper, but both John MacArthur and John R. Rice have prOBlems with the KJB. MacArthur even questions the blood of Christ. He's a smart man, but I will not knowingly read his material. He also coined the term "grace giving" instead of tithing. I know these things first-hand, having heard his cassettes from a friend at work years ago. MacArthur used, read, and believed the NIV at the time, and I assume he still does. I am amazed at the number of Baptists that seem to follow him; though he does call himself a "fundamentalist". Makes one wonder how he defines the term "fundamentalist"?

There are certainly areas with which I disagree with MacArthur (and I'm sure it keeps him up at night too! ); for starters, his position on Lordship salvation is very suspect, and I wouldn't read anything about the issue from him (or would at least use caution). However, none of the above would be reasons for me to not read either him and Dr. Rice.

But this isn't a thread to discuss these men, it's a thread to discuss books. Have you read any good books lately?

I have heard that, too, that God allowed it because of those reasons.

However at the very beginning God set it up as one woman/one man. Look at Adam, who never married anyone but Eve (even though granted, he would have been the oldest man on the earth until he died....but still, I don't think age mattered so much back then.)....It was as people got rebellious they started getting extra wives. If you follow through the Bible, usually people who did marry several wives ended up with "several prOBlems" too! JOB was one of the most revered men in the Bible and he only had one wife. Abraham as well, and he ran into big time trouble with Hagar. David also was noted for women being his downfall, as was Solomon. Joseph only had one wife and was another very important man in the Bible, and Noah, I believe, stayed true to his wife until she died. I also do not read much of Polygamy in the New Testament, particularly in the church age.

When the Pharisees asked about divorce, Jesus said Moses allowed it only due to the hardness of their hearts...which I assume polygamy was also due to the hardness of their hearts.

This is true. It seems like multiple wives always caused them prOBlems, and it's OBvious that God's plan for marriage is one man and one woman.

If you do not consider removing Scripture "change", then you are right, this conversation will be fruitless.

Fallacious arguementation.

I think they were searching for what specific doctrines are changed in MVs.

This is true. But I don't think there's any point in discussing it.

Nevermind. Ignore that last question. I have a feeling this will be a pretty fruitless conversation.

Ahhhh... exactly my point! How much of your Bible do you remove before it's not The Word of God? I say "One Word." Remove on word and you have corrupted the Word of God!

Have you ever heard of textual criticism?

Back to my original question, which doctrines do the MVs change?

"Prayer: Asking and Receiving" by Dr. John R. Rice is an excellent book that really built up my prayer life.

I read parts of a question and answer book he has out. I thought it was interesting.

Look at the sin God is allowing to take place today, does it not show that He respect man's free will?

While this is true, the verses I posted above don't really seem to portray God as condemning it. Do you agree with the viewpoint that the article I posted presents?

It doesn't bother you that verse is removed? A tract can also contain the doctrine of salvation and grace through faith. So do you maintain that a tract is just as "good" as the Bible, since it does not remove the doctrine?

A tract can be just as good when sharing the Gospel with someone, but it isn't the whole Bible and doesn't claim to be.

Anyone have a good book that you've read recently, or are looking forward to reading?

I just finished Your Own Jesus by Mark Hall. It's a very good read for anyone interested. You really learn about having a personal relationship with Jesus versus only using your parents' Jesus.

Another one, I can't remember the title at the moment, but it was about the apostle Paul and was written by FB Meyer. You get to know a lot of the man.

I'm currently reading 50 Reasons Why Jesus Came to Die by John Piper, and I'm looking forward to reading Twelve Ordinary Men by John MacArthur and 50 People Every Christian Should Know.

All one has to do is take a close look at what the liberal church who are using the MV's are teaching, along with looking at how they are following Jesus.

But what about the churches that use the KJV--like the Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons and Pentacostals?

Sure... take out Acts 8:37 as the NIV does and you have baptism without salvation first.

A doctrine cannot be built around one single verse. When looking at the whole counsel of the Word of God, the NIV teaches that salvation is by grace through faith.

(I hope it is okay to post these for illustrative purposes. If not, I sincerely apologize!)

Eph 2:8, 9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.

Also, with v 37 taken out (still being included in the footnotes), we still see Phillip has shared the Gospel with the eunuch and can ascertain that he believed on Christ before being baptized once we look at all of what the Bible says. After all, looking at Acts 16, we see faith preceeded baptism.

Ac 16:31-34: They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole family.

We have a few good reads in the article section.
http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/page/articles?category=1

Thank you for the link! I will try to find some time to read it.

And thanks all of you for your responses so far! It's great to get into the Word and discuss our beliefs, all in a civilized, Christ-like way.

Exactly, they've tried that several times, them the final product left a lot to be desires, for they changed the meaning of many things within the pages of the bible to further support their own agenda.

My humble opinion only, most of those who come along and want to come up with a new version do so for 2 main reason, dollar marks in their eyes and or to make changes to support their beliefs.

I would honestly like to know, not intending to start a fight or anything, where a doctrine is changed when going from the KJV to a mainstream MV. Are there any examples you could give?

The next four (or more) years will be filled with academic, personal and social growth. Don't worry too much because I'm sure you are well prepared. I'm sorry if my answers have been overly long but I really relate to where you are because you sound a lot like me when I graduated. I know it's easier said than done, but if you have an open mind you will have a wonderful experience and learn a lot!

No need to be sorry! Your posts have been really helpful!

I agree. I think God always intended for marriage to be a relationship between one man and one woman (and the verse you quoted from Matthew is a quote from Genesis, which seems to support that--clear back with Adam and Eve).

The article on GotQuestions.org (http://www.gotquestions.org/polygamy.html)seems to suggest God allowed it to protect the women, who outnumbered the men, and to allow the human race to expand more quickly. However, wouldn't that make God a pragmatist, allowing the ends to justify the means?

Why does it seem like God allows, possibly even supports, polygamy in the OT?

In 2 Chr 24 vv. 2-3, we read that the priest Jehoiada gives Joash two wives and also that Joash did right in the sight of the LORD.

And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest. And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters.

And in 2 Sam 12, Nathan tells David God gave him his wives, and He would even give him more.

And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; and I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

It seems like the NT views the only valid marital relationship as being between one man and one woman, but the OT seems kinda supportive to me. Anyone have thoughts on it?

For me, my close college friendships were much more indepth than my close high school friendships.

I have talked with a couple of people who also said they're closer to their college friends than their HS friends. Why do you think this is? For you, is it just because you basically lived together? Or maybe because all of you are going through such an extreme change in your lives?

Live4Him: All throughout the rest of your life you will go through change. Some changes will be easy, some not so much. For many people, the end of high school is hard - especially if that person has been active in lots of things and has lots of friends. It is bittersweet, because the future beckons, but the past has hold.

Take heart, though. As you go on to college, you will make new friends. Your old friends will always be there, even though you and they will change some.

We are in the empty nest phase of our lives. It has its ups and its downs. I miss my son so much - and yet, it's nice to be just the two of us again. Soon (nothing on the horizon), we will welcome a daughter-in-law, bringing more change. And then grandkids (something I AM looking forward to very much! ).

As I look back on my life, I can say that each phase, like the empty nest, has its ups and its downs. The thing to remember is that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He holds you in His hand and has wonderful things in store for you.

We moved around so much that I went to a different school every year of high school. Didn't have much of a chance to make close friends. Consider yourself very blessed that you have been able to forge good friendships!

Let yourself grieve this passing time for a bit. But don't dwell in it...Look forward to new things, new people, and a richer life in Christ!

The bolded part is definately what God has been reminding me about lately.

Thanks again, guys, for all of your comments. I enjoy reading your stories and thoughts!

Relax. I was there not very long ago. What you are feeling sounds exactly like what I felt. I cried at my last day of high school , cried at graduation, cried at senior recognition day at church, cried.. well you get the idea. You will still keep in touch with your friends. It will be weird the first semester, but you will get into a routine, and soon you will get to know your professors and you will make friends at college. You will of course keep in touch with your old high school friends. You will visit them and they will visit you and you will see each other when you are all home. You won't make your best friends the first week or even month and college and it will be different, but I will promise you if you just hang in there you will make some life long friends at college while still keeping your good high school friends.

Get excited for this new chapter in your life! It's okay to be sad to leave your home and friends, but remember that the next four years are going to be full of new challenges and fun and excitement and growth. I wish you the best!

It's good to know I'm not the only one! Thanks for your encouragement! Would you say you made closer friends in high school or college?

I just recently had my last day of high school, and I'm already missing it. Most of my friends I'll still see in church Sundays and Wednesdays, but I'm still going to miss seeing them everyday (and then barely ever seeing them once we all go to different colleges) and the ones I won't see at church. I'm going to miss the structure, routine, loving teachers, safety, everything. Did anyone else miss high school once they graduated? How did you get over it?

Only thanks to God's grace.

I'm prOBably one of the worst sinner only thanks to God's grace?

Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

But there sin is worse than ours. After all, there sin could cause them to have their names removed from the Book of Life.

(By the way, I'm just messin with you. I know I am a sinner. PrOBably one of the worst.)

Yes, it seems slander is alive and well in the Christians community, the uses of the new versions are good about slandering those who hold to the KJ's. Of course if they held to it, it would shine in and show their liberal ways.

Thank God we are not sinners like they are!

Sad. Churches need to preach what the Bible says, not just what people want to hear.

The Wyclif is not the KJ, that's what's wrong with it.

Huh?

And no, you did not quote scripture, I just though you might not know this, so I passed it along just in case you did not know.

Ah, I see. Thanks!

Of course I think they do so for 2 reason, money and to change the Bible to better support what they teach.

Most Bibles are translated by a committe made up of people from different denominational backgrounds to ensure no doctrinal biases are used in the text. Of course, the Holman Christian Standard Bible is sometimes derogatorily referred to as the "Baptist Bible" by its detractors because nearly half of the translation team was Baptist and it was published by a Southern Baptist owned company, but I digress.

NO,

What was wrong with the Wyclif Bible?

In case you don't know the board rule is when posting scriptures from the Holy Bible, its to be from the KJ Bible only.

Where did I quote Scripture?

Yes, yet He provided one when the time was proper.

Are you speaking of Wyclif's Bible?

"No, the Geneva wasn't good enough?"

If it was, there would have been no KJB, and no further need for it. Do you think all that happened by accident?

Maybe the "authorized" version was also authorized by God, did you ever think of that?

Please check out the "articles" tab, and the KJB posts.

God left the world without a sufficiant English translation of His Word for hundreds of years?