Kleptes

It is amazing how some preachers like Steven Anderson can turn people from a true belief in Jesus Christ with out work, but with work.  Repentance isn't turning from sin, it is turn to the LORD.  Why do we turn because of conviction by the Holy Ghost and then and only then can we truly turn to God and believe on Jesus Christ of whom the God Father sent.

The only work that I know is the work of God the Father.  

John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

John 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

 

 

 

22 hours ago, SureWord said:

I always assumed he went to both places. To hell to preach to the spirits in prison and to paradise (i.e. Abraham's Bosom) to lead captivity captive.

I agree SureWord. 

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke  23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

I believe that Eve did add to the word of God.  Whether it was deliberately or not, she did add to the word of God.

Genesis 2: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. 

Genesis 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

The Lord God word is then reiterated when Adam hides from the presence of the Lord God because he was naked.  God does not mention anything about touching the tree.

Genesis 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

 

As pointed in an earlier post 2 Timothy 2:14.  Eve was in the transgression and supports what  is told in Genesis chapter 3.  The difference between Eve and Adam was that she was deceived and Adam was not deceived this also supports Genesis chapter 3.   This is also the first instance of the blame game.  Adam sounds like because God gave him the woman it was part of the problem.  

2 Timothy 2:14 Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Adam was the head of the house and  because he was married to Eve and cleaved to her  they were one flesh.  The eyes of both were opened after Adam ate because of his position as the husband.   It also explains why they were both called Adam by God.  Adam gives Eve her name.

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

 

Don't get me wrong even though Eve was in the transgression it is because of Adam's transgression that sin and death came into the world.  Thank God for the second Adam.  JESUS CHRIST!

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 

Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
so much more righteousness and life by Jesus Christ 

 Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

 

 

 

 

Amen Jerry.  Jesus did go to hell and preached unto those who died during Noah's flood.   

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:  19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 

God is the judge and He is a jealous God.  What Paul is referencing is in Numbers 25 as John Young pointed out.   This is in reference  to the children of Israel committing idolatry and fornication in the land of Moab.   There is one in particular,along with his men, joined himself to Bealpeor.  This kindled God's anger.  God then tells  Moses to hang all the heads of the people and hang them up so that  Gods anger will be will be turned away from Israel.  So Moses commanded the Judges of Israel to slay every man  that was joined unto Baalpeor.    The  other incident that followed was that a man of Israel brought in a woman that had the plague.   One of Aarons sons  slew both the man and the woman with a javeline.  He  pierced the woman through the belly.  This  killing was to stop the plague from spreading any further, and 24,000 died of the plague.

 1 And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. 2 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. 3 And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. 4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel. 5 And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor. 

 6 And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 7 And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; 8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. 9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

 10 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 11 Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.1  12 Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: 13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel. 14 Now the name of the Israelite that was slain, even that was slain with the Midianitish woman, was Zimri, the son of Salu, a prince of a chief house among the Simeonites.2  15 And the name of the Midianitish woman that was slain was Cozbi, the daughter of Zur; he was head over a people, and of a chief house in Midian. 

 

 

 

 

On 3/7/2017 at 6:24 PM, brandplucked said:

Genesis 3:15  - "IT shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

 

 In this 7 minute video, Bible corrector John Ankerberg and some “expert” criticize the King James Bible and tell us that the translators of the King James Bible were “being chicken” for not using the third-person singular pronoun "he" instead of "it" in Genesis 3:15.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRjZWvHEk_0&app=desktop

 

Are they right? Of course not. They are missing an important truth found in the King James Bible, but they are just too dull to see it.

 

The great promise of Genesis 3:15 has been altered in many versions. God speaks to the serpent whom He had just cursed and says: "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; IT shall BRUISE thy head, and thou shalt BRUISE his heel."

 

Here we read of two different seeds. There are the children of the devil and the children of God. See Matthew 13:25, 39. Christ sowed good seed in his field. The good seed are the children of the kingdom, but the enemy who is the devil sowed tares and these are the children of the wicked one.

 

In the KJB the seed that will bruise the serpent's head is referred to as IT. Why is this? I believe it is because the seed refers not only to Christ but also to His people who will bruise the head of Satan. Christ is the seed, but we are also in Christ and are the promised seed as well.

 

Compare Galatians 3:16 and 29. "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Abraham's seed is both Christ and His people.

 

The clincher is Romans 16:20, but it has been messed up in the NKJV, NIV, NASB, Catholic versions and the Jehovah Witness NWT.

 

In the King James Bible we read: "And the God of peace SHALL BRUISE SATAN UNDER YOUR FEET shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen."

 

The KJB has "bruise" in both Genesis 3:15 and in Romans 16:20, thus tying the two verses together. But the NKJV, NIV, NASB, Catholic versions and the Jehovah Witness NWT have changed "bruise" to "crush" in Romans 16:20 and thus  obscure this connection. 

 

We also read a related promise to the saints of God in Psalm 91:13 "Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet."

 

We read of the enmity of Satan with the seed of the woman in Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." 

 

In Genesis 3:15 the NKJV, NIV, NASB, Holman, ESV, Jehovah Witness NWT, the Catholic St. Joseph NAB 1970 unite in changing the seed being referred to as "IT" to "HE" thus limiting it to only Christ.

 

The Catholic Douay version 1950 and the Work of God's Children Bible 2011 have "SHE shall bruise your head", probably referring to Mary.

 

While the New English Bible 1970, the 1917 Jewish Publication Society translation, the Revised English Bible 1989 and The New Jewish Version 1985 have "THEY shall bruise your head", which would also include the saints of God.

 

The “they” can be seen as to include both the promised Messiah and His seed together who will bruise Satan.  

 

Dan Wallace and company have translated Genesis 3:15 this way: "And I will put hostility between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring; HER OFFSPRING will attack your head, and you will attack HER OFFSPRING'S heel."  This translation also allows the inclusion of both the Christ and His people."  

 

The Jubilee Bible 2000-2010 translated it as: "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her seed; THAT SEED shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise HIS heel."  

 

 

Even those who criticize the King James Bible (none of whom believes that ANY Bible in any language is now or ever was the complete and inerrant words of God) will at least admit that the Hebrew text can be translated as "IT."  

 

Tyndale 1534,  Matthew's Bible 1549, God's First Truth 1999, the Jubilee Bible 2010 all say "THAT SEED shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

 

Coverdale's Bible of 1535 and The Great Bible of 1540 both read: "I will also put enemytie betwene the & the woman, betwene thy sede and hyr sede: THE SAME shall treade downe thy head, and thou shalt treade vpon hys hele."  

 

The words "the same" refers back to the seed. It is not masculine, but the neuter singular, which refers to seed and can include the Christ and His chosen seed.

 

"IT shall bruise thy head"

 

Other Bible translations that read IT along with the KJB are the Bishops' Bible 1568, Webster's translation 1833, the Julia Smith Translation 1855, The Wellbeloved Scriptures 1862, The Jewish Family Bible 1864, The Smith Bible 1876, The Sharpe Bible 1883, The Revised Version 1885 - “IT shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”, The Ancient Hebrew Bible 1907, The Word of Yah 1993, the KJV 21st Century 1994, the Third Millennium Bible 1998, the Bond Slave Version 2012, and The Orthodox Jewish Bible 2011 - “IT shall crush thy rosh, and thou shalt strike his akev (heel).”.

 

And this Interlinear Hebrew Old Testament - "IT shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." - http://studybible.info/IHOT/Genesis%203:15

 

The word "it" referring to the seed plural is also found in Genesis 16:10. "And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that IT shall not be numbered for multitude." 

 

 

Foreign language Bibles  

 

There are also some foreign language Bibles that translate the passage in a similar way. The Spanish Cipriano de Valera of 1602, the Valera of 1865 and the Reina Valera of 1909 and 1995 all read: - "Y enemistad pondré entre ti y la mujer, y entre tu simiente y la simiente suya; ésta te herirá en la cabeza, y tú le herirás en el calcañar."  

 

Here the word "ésta" is a feminine singular that can only refer back to "the seed" (which is feminine in Spanish), just as in the KJB the word "it" refers back to the seed, which includes the Messiah and His people.   It is not the masculine "he".  

 

So too the Portuguese Almeida Corrigida E Fiel Bible of 1681 which reads: "E porei inimizade entre ti e a mulher, e entre a tua semente e a sua semente; esta te ferirá a cabeça, e tu lhe ferirás o calcanhar. "  

 

Once again, the word "ESTA" is feminine singular referring to "the seed", just as "it" does in the English Bible.

 

The French Martin Bible of 1744 reads: "Et je mettrai inimitié entre toi et la femme, et entre ta semence et la semence de la femme; cette [semence] te brisera la tête, et tu lui briseras le talon." = "THAT seed will bruise your head".

 

Likewise the Italian Diodati of 1649 and the Riveduta Bible of 2006 both say: "Ed io metterò inimicizia fra te e la donna, e fra la tua progenie e la progenie di essa; questa progenie ti triterà il capo e tu le ferirai il calcagno." = "THAT SEED (or, offspring) will crush your head".  

 

Once again it is a singular feminine which can only refer to the seed, and can include the Messiah and His people.  

 

Luther's German Bible of 1545 reads: "Und ich will Feindschaft setzen zwischen dir und dem Weibe und zwischen deinem Samen und ihrem Samen. Der selbe soll dir den Kopf zertreten, und du wirst ihn in die Ferse stechen." = "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed. THE SAME shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

 

And finally the Modern Greek Bible is very interesting because it agrees with the King James Bible translation, even in the word "IT".  It reads: "και εχθραν θελω στησει αναμεσον σου και της γυναικος, και αναμεσον του σπερματος σου και του σπερματος αυτης· αυτο θελει σου συντριψει την κεφαλην, και συ θελεις κεντησει την πτερναν αυτου." = "IT will bruise your head".  

 

The Greek word "auto" is a NEUTER and not a masculine or feminine. It would be translated exactly as it stands in the King James Bible and others that say "IT shall bruise thy head". The Greek masculine word for "he" is "autos". This is clearly the Greek neuter nominative case, meaning "IT".

 

 

 

Isn't is wonderful to know that we are in Christ and are His seed, members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones; and that His victory is also ours because we are in Him and that shortly God will bruise Satan under our feet?

 

John Calvin also understood the passage in this way. He comments: 

 

 

John Calvin - “It shall bruise . This passage affords too clear a proof of the great ignorance, dullness, and carelessness, which have prevailed among all the learned men of the Papacy. The feminine gender has crept in instead of the masculine or neuter. There has been none among them who would consult the Hebrew or Greek codices, or who would even compare the Latin copies with each other. Therefore, by a common error, this most corrupt reading has been received. Then, a profane exposition of it has been invented, by applying to the mother of Christ what is said concerning her seed.

There is, indeed no ambiguity in the words here used by Moses; but I do not agree with others respecting their meaning; for other interpreters take the seed for Christ, without controversy; as if it were said, that some one would arise from the seed of the woman who should wound the serpent's head. Gladly would I give my suffrage in support of their opinion, but that I regard the word seed as too violently distorted by them; for who will concede that a collective noun is to be understood of one man only? Further, as the perpetuity of the contest is noted, so victory is promised to the human race through a continual succession of ages. I explain, therefore, the seed to mean the posterity of the woman generally. But since experience teaches that not all the sons of Adam by far, arise as conquerors of the devil, we must necessarily come to one head, that we may find to whom the victory belongs. So Paul, from the seed of Abraham, leads us to Christ; because many were degenerate sons, and a considerable part adulterous, through infidelity; whence it follows that the unity of the body flows from the head. Wherefore, the sense will be (in my judgment) that the human race, which Satan was endeavoring to oppress, would at length be victorious....But because one stronger than he has descended from heaven, who will subdue him, hence it comes to pass that, in the same manner, the whole Church of God, under its Head, will gloriously exult over him. To this the declaration of Paul refers, "The Lord shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly," (Romans 16:20.) By which words he signifies that the power of bruising Satan is imparted to faithful men, and thus the blessing is the common property of the whole Church.”

 

 

Jamieson, Faussett and Brown - 15. thy seed--not only evil spirits, but wicked men. seed of the woman--the Messiah, or His Church it shall bruise thy head--The serpent's poison is lodged in its head; and a bruise on that part is fatal. Thus, fatal shall be the stroke which Satan shall receive from Christ, though it is probable he did not at first understand the nature and extent of his doom.”

 

Matthew Poole’s English Annotations on the Holy Bible also saw the same truth, saying: “and by way of participation, all the members of Christ, all believers and holy men, who are called the children of Christ, Hebrews 2:13,  and of the heavenly Jerusalem, Galatians 4:26. All the members whereof are the seed of this woman; and all these are the implacable enemies of the devil, whom also by Christ’s merit and strength they do overcome.”

 

 

Whedon’s Commentary shares the same view as well. He comments - “It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.  But this prophecy, given in Paradise before the expulsion of the transgressors, should not be explained exclusively of the personal Messiah. That promised seed comprehends also the redeemed humanity of which he is Head — that great company who both suffer with him and with him shall also be glorified.  Romans 8:17…So only those who belong to Christ as their great head and leader, are the seed of promise; all others, though born of woman, by espousing the serpent’s cause and doing the lusts of the devil (John 8:44) are of the seed of the serpent, a “generation of vipers,” (Matthew 23:33) whose end is perdition.” 

 

The Seed, the "IT" in Genesis 3:15, that shall ultimately bruise the head of Satan is Both the Lord Jesus Christ and all the redeemed who are His Seed together. The victory is ours as well because we are in Him and Scripture clearly promises to every saint of God -  "And the God of peace SHALL BRUISE SATAN UNDER YOUR FEET shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen."  Romans 16:20  

 

This truth is lost in these modern versions.

 

The King James Bible is right, as always, and none of those who criticize and "correct" it will ever show you a copy of any Bible in any language that they honestly believe is now the complete and inerrant words of God.

 

They are all version rummagers and their own authority as they piece together their individual "bible" versions which differ from every body else's.  "In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did that which was right in his own eyes."  Judges 21:25

The King James Bible is God’s true “Book of the LORD” - Isaiah 34:16 - “Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail...”

All of grace, believing the Book,

Will Kinney

Return to Articles - http://brandplucked.webs.com/kjbarticles.htm

 

I agree truth is lost in the modern translations and they are that of the devil.  I believe the word "enmity" is the "it" that bruises the head of the serpent (Satan).  Satan's hatred is towards the seed of the promise which is in Jesus Christ.  You can see the enmity(hatred) even today among the different ungodly religions.  Also these newer translations as subtle as they can be in translation, remember the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made, shows enmity between their false truths and that of the Truth of the Word preserved in the King James Bible.

 

Greetings to all, and thanks to each of you for sharing in this discussion.

Sorry for the confusion, but the main point of this thread is the issue of being drawn away from the "awe", that we should have for God’s Word!

The fact is, because it is “God’s Word”, means that not a single word of it, can be a result of man’s intellect or investigation...... (2 Peter 1:20)
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”
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Peter, in trying to get this point across, tells us that any information from “any source”, can not be compared to the supernatural reliability of God’s Word:
Not even GOD’S VOICE, SPOKEN FROM HEAVEN! ...... (2 Peter 1:16-19)
V.16 ¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
V.17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
V.18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
V.19 ¶ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Even though Peter was an “eyewitness” of God’s voice from heaven, declaring who Jesus was; Peter tells us, that this eyewitness account, “holds less validity” than the words of the Bible!
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The fact that this is even an issue, on a IFB forum, demonstrates how our attitude about the Bible has been effected by today’s Satanic attacks.

 

Peter is talking about the mount of transfiguration.  Which is written in three Gospels of the Bible. So in this case it holds just as much validity because it is recorded in the Bible three times and by three different writers.

Matthew 17 :1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17 :2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Matthew 17 :3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Matthew 17 :4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Matthew 17 :5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Matthew 17 :6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

Matthew 17 :7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

Matthew 17 :8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

Matthew 17 :9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

 

Mark 9 :1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Mark 9 :2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

Mark 9 :3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

Mark 9 :4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Mark 9 :5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Mark 9 :6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

Mark 9 :7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Mark 9 :8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

Mark 9 :9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

Luke 9 :28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

Luke 9 :29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

Luke 9 :30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

Luke 9 :31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Luke 9 :32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

Luke 9 :33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

Luke 9 :34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

Luke 9 :35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Luke 9 :36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

Even Luke writes about it. 

Who started this thread to make it an issue anyway?

 

Not present you say? Help me out here friend because I could make little sense of what your point is based on its abundance.

So the writer of the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts was not present during the Lord's earthly ministry? Or is this a different Luke or what is it that you are saying? The vast majority of the Bible from head to toe was actually experienced by the writers God chose so why would you make this argument?

Why is it significant that Luke not be a Jew, I don't get it.

 

When I say present. I mean he wasn't walking around with Jesus Christ or was within the same area as Jesus Christ.  I believe he was present or alive during Jesus's earthly ministry.  I'm am just showing that he writes as if he was present with Theophilus and he wrote the rest of the narrative as if he was not present with the apostles as a witness. Now in the way he wrote in chapter 16, it shows he was present with Paul through some of Paul's gospel journeys.  I know Paul was converted when Jesus Christ  personally contacted him on the way to Damascus.  Could Paul have taught Luke about Jesus Christ's ministry and resurrection?  As I said Luke could have been a jew or he could have been a gentile. I am not making an argument on whether or not Luke was chosen by God.  He was chosen by God  to write both books or I wouldn't be quoting him from the Bible. I am not saying it is significant whether he is a jew or not.  If he is a jew will I look at his books with a frown? Absolutely not.  If he is a gentile will I look at his books with a frown? Absolutely not. There isn't enough evidence for anyone to say for certain he was a jew.  Look at the title of this post and read the body of what posted.  Did I make the argument? Or did I just simply make a point to show otherwise?

I color coded words to make a point to show that I would have to disagree with everything that  has been said that Luke had to be a jew. Here are the words used to convey such an argument to portray him as a jew.  Jew, and  those of the circumcision.   I believe Paul separates Luke and Epaphras, Demas, Nymphus, and Archippus from "of the circumcision", namely Aristarchus, Marcus, and  Justus.  

Colossians 4 :10 Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him;)

Colossians 4 :11 And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. these only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.

Colossians 4 :12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Colossians 4 :13 For I bear him record, that he hath a great zeal for you, and them that are in Laodicea, and them in Hierapolis.

Colossians 4 :14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

Colossians 4 :15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

Colossians 4 :16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
Colossians 4 :17 And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

Colossians 4 :18 The salutation by the hand of me Paul. Remember my bonds. Grace be with you. Amen. 

The brown words are the present or first person narrative, whereas the blue words are the past, away from, or third person narrative

 I believe that Luke separates himself  as well, at least from the physical ministry of Jesus Christ and apostles shortly after the Resurrection.  When you read the narrative of Acts you will notice it starts off as a first person narrative to Theophilus, in the introduction. Then immediately changes to a third person narrative until chapter 16, after Paul lands at Troas and after he see the vision of a man from Macedonia, it then changes to a first person narrative, and then finally back to a third person narrative, within the same chapter, when Paul and Silas are put into custody and then released.  Why is it written that way, or is it a mistake? Acts shows that Luke was not with them in the upper room, nor counted with the 120, he doesn't even put himself in amoung those where were  with Jesus Christ even in this chapter, nor was with them at the day of Pentacost in Acts 2.   If by the argument given, that becaise Luke had "perfect understanding" and “from the very first” proves he is a jew or was there with them at the time of Jesus's physical ministry.  Why wasn't he chosen amoung Justus and Mathias to be numbered with the eleven? The reason one was chosen is to have been a witness with them of the resurrection of Christ as stated in verse 22 below. Even verse 21 says they accompanied them during Jesus ministry.

 

Acts 1 :1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

Acts 1 :2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1 :3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Acts 1 :4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Acts 1 :5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1 :6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Acts 1 :7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Acts 1 :8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 1 :9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 1 :10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Acts 1 :11 Which also said, ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 1 :12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Acts 1 :13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

Acts 1 :14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Acts 1 :15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Acts 1 :16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 1 :17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

Acts 1 :18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Acts 1 :19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Acts 1 :20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Acts 1 :21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Acts 1 :22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1 :23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

Acts 1 :24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

Acts 1 :25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Acts 1 :26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Acts 2 :1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

 

Acts 2 :2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Acts 2 :3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2 :4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2 :5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Acts 2 :6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Acts 2 :7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Acts 2 :8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 2 :9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Acts 2 :10  Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Acts 2 :11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 2 :12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Acts 2 :13  Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Acts 2 :14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 2 :15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Acts 2 :16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Acts 2 :17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 2 :18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Acts 2 :19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Acts 2 :20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Acts 2 :21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2 :22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 2 :23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 2 :24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 2 :25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Acts 2 :26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

Acts 2 :27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2 :28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Acts 2 :29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2 :30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Acts 2 :31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Acts 2 :32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2 :33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 2 :34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 2 :35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Acts 2 :36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 2 :37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2 :38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2 :39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 2 :40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts 2 :41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 2 :42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Acts 2 :43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Acts 2 :44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

Acts 2 :45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 2 :46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 2 :47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

This third person narrative ends briefly in Acts chapter 16. Starting in verse:10 a first person narrative begins and ends on verse 18.  The third person narrative picks up again on verse 19 and continues through to the end of the book The Acts.

 

Acts 16 :1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

Acts 16 :2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.

Acts 16 :3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

Acts 16 :4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Acts 16 :5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Acts 16 :6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,

Acts 16 :7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

Acts 16 :8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.

Acts 16 :9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.

Acts 16 :10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

Acts 16 :11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;

Acts 16 :12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.

Acts 16 :13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 16 :14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Acts 16 :15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 16 :16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

Acts 16 :17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Acts 16 :18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Acts 16 :19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,

Acts 16 :20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city,

Acts 16 :21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.

Acts 16 :22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them.

Acts 16 :23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:

Acts 16 :24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

Acts 16 :25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.

Acts 16 :26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

Acts 16 :27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

Acts 16 :28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

Acts 16 :29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

Acts 16 :30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 16 :31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 16 :32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Acts 16 :33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Acts 16 :34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Acts 16 :35 And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.

Acts 16 :36 And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.

Acts 16 :37 But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.

Acts 16 :38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.

Acts 16 :39 And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.

Acts 16 :40 And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.

If Luke was amoung them after they were released from prison, why then does he not continue with a first person narrative when Paul and Silas depart from the city? From  this point on the third person narrative continues to the end of The Acts.

 The book of Luke starts out as a first person narrative much like The Acts, and immediately turns to third person narrative  through to the end of  the book of Luke.  It is pretty clear that Luke was not with the twelve during the ministry of Jesus Christ in this narrative as well.

Luke 1 :1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

Luke 1 :2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

Luke 1 :3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

Luke 1 :4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Luke 1 :5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

Luke 1 :6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 1 :7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

Luke 1 :8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,

Luke 1 :9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

Luke 1 :10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.

Luke 1 :11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

Luke 1 :12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

Luke 1 :13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

Luke 1 :14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

Luke 1 :15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Luke 1 :16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

Luke 1 :17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Luke 1 :18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.

Luke 1 :19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Luke 1 :20 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

Luke 1 :21 And the people waited for Zacharias, and marvelled that he tarried so long in the temple.

Luke 1 :22 And when he came out, he could not speak unto them: and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained speechless.

Luke 1 :23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.

Luke 1 :24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

Luke 1 :25  Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.

Luke 1 :26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Luke 1 :27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Luke 1 :28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Luke 1 :29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

Luke 1 :30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Luke 1 :31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1 :32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luke 1 :33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luke 1 :34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Luke 1 :35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 1 :36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luke 1 :37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Luke 1 :38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Luke 1 :39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

Luke 1 :40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

Luke 1 :41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1 :42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Luke 1 :43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Luke 1 :44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Luke 1 :45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Luke 1 :46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

Luke 1 :47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Luke 1 :48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Luke 1 :49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

Luke 1 :50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

Luke 1 :51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

Luke 1 :52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

Luke 1 :53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

Luke 1 :54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

Luke 1 :55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Luke 1 :56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.

Luke 1 :57 Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth a son.

Luke 1 :58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

Luke 1 :59 And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father.

Luke 1 :60 And his mother answered and said, Not so; but he shall be called John.

Luke 1 :61 And they said unto her, There is none of thy kindred that is called by this name.

Luke 1 :62 And they made signs to his father, how he would have him called.

Luke 1 :63 And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all.

Luke 1 :64 And his mouth was opened immediately, and his tongue loosed, and he spake, and praised God.

Luke 1 :65 And fear came on all that dwelt round about them: and all these sayings were noised abroad throughout all the hill country of Judaea.

Luke 1 :66 And all they that heard them laid them up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him.

Luke 1 :67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

Luke 1 :68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Luke 1 :69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

Luke 1 :70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Luke 1 :71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

Luke 1 :72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

Luke 1 :73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Luke 1 :74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

Luke 1 :75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Luke 1 :76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Luke 1 :77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Luke 1 :78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

Luke 1 :79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Luke 1 :80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

In the end all I am trying to show.  Is that one cannot make an argument fool proof that Luke was a  jew or was present during Jesus Christ's ministry.  He could  have been a jew, but no where does it say he is a jew. Nor does it say he is a gentile, even though it could hint to it in Colossians.  There are far more blue words than brown ,which shows the bible is clear he was not present with the apostles either during the physical ministry of Jesus or after His Resurrection. Not even up to or before Paul "the late bloom apostle" landed in Troas. He sure doesn't put himself with Paul after he leaves the city and through out the rest of the book either. At any rate are we not all counted with Abraham's seed after we are born again?

Galatians 3 :24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3 :25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3 :26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3 :27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Galatians 3 :28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3 :29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Psalms 51 :1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

Psalms 51 :2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

Psalms 51 :3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

Psalms 51 :4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Psalms 51 :5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalms 51 :6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Psalms 51 :7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Psalms 51 :8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Psalms 51 :9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

Psalms 51 :10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Psalms 51 :11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not  thy holy spirit from me.

Psalms 51 :12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Psalms 51 :13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Psalms 51 :14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

Psalms 51 :15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

Psalms 51 :16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

Psalms 51 :17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Psalms 51 :18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.

Psalms 51 :19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

 

 

Donald hit it on the head for the meaning of Easter.   Easter celebrates the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  According to Paul the resurrected Christ proves he will come back or. else our faith is in vain, we are yet in our sins, those who are dead in Christ are  perish, and we are in jeopardy every hour.  Jesus Christ's return is our Hope. Jesus will come from the east.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

1 Corinthians 15 :1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15 :2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15 :3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15 :4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15 :5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

1 Corinthians 15 :6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15 :7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1 Corinthians 15 :8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

1 Corinthians 15 :9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

1 Corinthians 15 :10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1 Corinthians 15 :11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

1 Corinthians 15 :12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15 :13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15 :14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15 :15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1 Corinthians 15 :16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1 Corinthians 15 :17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1 Corinthians 15 :18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15 :19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1 Corinthians 15 :20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15 :21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15 :22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15 :23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Corinthians 15 :24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1 Corinthians 15 :25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1 Corinthians 15 :26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1 Corinthians 15 :27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1 Corinthians 15 :28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Corinthians 15 :29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

1 Corinthians 15 :30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

1 Corinthians 15 :31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

1 Corinthians 15 :32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

1 Corinthians 15 :33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

1 Corinthians 15 :34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 Corinthians 15 :35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15 :36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15 :37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15 :38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15 :39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

1 Corinthians 15 :40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1 Corinthians 15 :41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

1 Corinthians 15 :42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15 :43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15 :44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15 :45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Corinthians 15 :46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15 :47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15 :48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15 :49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15 :50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15 :51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15 :52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15 :53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15 :54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15 :55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Corinthians 15 :56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1 Corinthians 15 :57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15 :58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

Is Peters denial just a carnal sin, or was it also rejecting his Saviour?  If you follow the narrative of Peter.  He follows a far off.  He denies saying "I know not what thou sayest." He is again asked. Peter responds by saying " I do not know not the man"  He then is approached the third time. This time instead of only saying this fellow was with Jesus of Nazareth. They also say that his speech is evident that  he is a follower of Jesus. Notice Peter begins cursing and swearing to show a bit of carnality, to try and prove that he knew not the man. In two instances, of denying Jesus Christ,he says I know not the man.  Calling him a man in this context shows that he takes away not only Jesus's  Deity, but  that He also is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.  Peter is the one who revealed that.  This denial shows no acknowledgement at all of Jesus.  That looks like a pretty backslid state. Paul indeed turned his back on the Lord.  Was Peter lost or did he lose his salvation. God forbid.  Peter weeping bitterly shows He knew he what he did was wrong.  Jesus never forsook him. He was however commanded to strengthen the brethren,which was told to him prior to his denial of Jesus. In that very context Jesus told Peter that he would thrice deny that he knows him.  Jesus also commanded Peter to feed his  lambs and sheep.

Matthew 26 :57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

Matthew 26 :58 But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end.

Matthew 26 :59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Matthew 26 :60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

Matthew 26 :61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

Matthew 26 :62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

Matthew 26 :63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Matthew 26 :64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 26 :65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Matthew 26 :66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

Matthew 26 :67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands,

Matthew 26 :68 Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?

Matthew 26 :69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.

Matthew 26 :70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.

Matthew 26 :71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

Matthew 26 :72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.

Matthew 26 :73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.

Matthew 26 :74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

Matthew 26 :75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Matthew 16 :13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Matthew 16 :14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Matthew 16 :15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Matthew 16 :16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Matthew 16 :17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 22 :31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

Luke 22 :32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Luke 22 :33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

Luke 22 :34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

John 21 :15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

 

John 21 :16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

John 21 :17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

John 21 :18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

 

Judas Iscariot on the other hand shows a dark contrast to Peter. This man was called a traitor.  Jesus even says he is lost and labels him the son of Perdition.  Peter by evidence throughout the New testament show a man who turned to God. Whereas Judas Iscariot shows a man who turned to himself.  Peter lived for Christ.  Judas Iscariot lived for himself.  Peter died for the sake of Christ.  Judas Iscariot died for the sake of conscience, in which he hung himself.  Peter shows a believer who did a terrible sin and had  Godly sorrow.  Judas Iscariot shows a man who was counted as on of the twelve, lived a lie, a betrayer, and a thief with worldly sorrow.  Peter was backslid and Judas Iscariot a lost man.

 
Matthew 10 :1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Matthew 10 :2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Matthew 10 :3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

Matthew 10 :4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matthew 26 :20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.

Matthew 26 :21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Matthew 26 :22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

Matthew 26 :23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.

Matthew 26 :24  The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Matthew 26 :25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

Matthew 26 :45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Matthew 26 :46 Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

Matthew 26 :47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

Matthew 26 :48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.

Matthew 26 :49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.

Matthew 26 :50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

Matthew 27 :1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:

Matthew 27 :2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.

Matthew 27 :3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Matthew 27 :4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

Matthew 27 :5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Matthew 27 :6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.

Matthew 27 :7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.

Matthew 27 :8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.

Matthew 27 :9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;

Matthew 27 :10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.

Acts 1 :15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Acts 1 :16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 1 :17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

Acts 1 :18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Acts 1 :19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Acts 1 :20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Acts 1 :21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Acts 1 :22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1 :23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

Acts 1 :24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

Acts 1 :25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Acts 1 :26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

John 17 :1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

John 17 :2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 17 :3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 17 :4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17 :5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17 :6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17 :7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

John 17 :8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

John 17 :9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

John 17 :10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

John 17 :11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17 :12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 17 :13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

John 17 :14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17 :15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

John 17 :16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17 :17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 17 :18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John 17 :19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
 

All I did was post verses.  I do have some questions though.  Is not the God of Abraham our God?  Isn't Jesus Christ their Saviour as he is ours?  If backsliding, like you suggest, in the old testament equals an impossibility to born again believers today. Then what  are you implying about those believers of the old testament?  Why are they examples to us and why are the things that happened considered ensamples and are written for our admonition?  Can you please explain. 

Backsliding is indeed taught in the new testament. Not necessarily the word backslide of any state, but rather words or phrases  such as left thy first love, thou art fallen,idolater, lest he fall, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ, and not endure sound doctrine etc. The book of Galatians warns of it.  There is even indications of it for a brother overtaken in a fault.  If you think about it, even Peter is guilty of it when he denied Jesus Christ thrice.

Left thy first love / thou art fallen

Revelation 2 :1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2 :2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2 :3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Revelation 2 :4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Revelation 2 :5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 2 :6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Revelation 2 :7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Idolater / lest he fall

1 Corinthians 5 :11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Corinthians 5 :12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Corinthians 5 :13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Corinthians 10 :1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

1 Corinthians 10 :2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

1 Corinthians 10 :3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

1 Corinthians 10 :4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10 :5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

1 Corinthians 10 :6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1 Corinthians 10 :7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1 Corinthians 10 :8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

1 Corinthians 10 :9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1 Corinthians 10 :10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

1 Corinthians 10 :11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1 Corinthians 10 :12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ / bewitched you / not obey the truth / fallen from grace

2 Corinthians 11 :1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.

2 Corinthians 11 :2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2 Corinthians 11 :3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11 :4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Galatians 3 :1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Galatians 3 :2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3 :3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3 :4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Galatians 3 :5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 5 :1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5 :2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Galatians 5 :3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Galatians 5 :4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 5 :5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5 :6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 5 :7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

Galatians 5 :8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

Galatians 5 :9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Galatians 5 :10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

Galatians 5 :11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 5 :12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

 

not endure sound doctrine /  turn away their ears from the truth

2 Timothy 4 :1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Timothy 4 :2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2 Timothy 4 :3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2 Timothy 4 :4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Timothy 4 :5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

 

overtaken in a fault / fall into condemnation / do err from the truth

Galatians 6 :1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

James 5 :19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

James 5 :20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

Peter's denies thrice / curse and to swear , saying, I know not the man / thou shalt deny me thrice

Matthew 26 :57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

Matthew 26 :58 But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end.

Matthew 26 :59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Matthew 26 :60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

Matthew 26 :61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

Matthew 26 :62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

Matthew 26 :63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Matthew 26 :64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 26 :65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Matthew 26 :66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

Matthew 26 :67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands,

Matthew 26 :68 Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?

Matthew 26 :69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.

Matthew 26 :70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.

Matthew 26 :71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

Matthew 26 :72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.

Matthew 26 :73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.

Matthew 26 :74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

Matthew 26 :75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

 

 

It will be in the 60's here on tuesday.

Local only means every independent baptist church is autonomous/ self governing. Meaning that there is no other entity, convention, association. other church etc has rule over it. It also includes only members of that local body can take part in the Lords supper and that members can only vote in church meetings and when one wants to be a member of that local church.

I am an American Baptist but not that of the so called Cindy pastor American Baptist.  If they do not have doctrines then they are not baptist at all, but rather just american heretical.  They are total liberals for having a woman as a pastor. There are two American Baptist that I know. My in-law parents when they heard that I was an American Baptist they thought I could be heretical.  Those American Baptist are those of National Baptist Convention, Progressive National Convention, and American Baptist Convention (ABC).  The other  is American Baptist Association (ABA) which I am part of. We have doctrines and we are independent local baptist churches.  I guess most people know this since I am in this Independent Fundamental Baptist forum. 

     While reading this chapter I can plainly see that it is Jesus talking and not John narrating in his own words.  Jesus was in heaven and earth at the same time being fully God and fully man. Making him omnipresent. You may question how can that be when Jesus says. 

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" in John 17 :5?

      While here on earth he did not possess the glory, that he shared with the Father before the world was, in the flesh, but he is one with the Father and I would say in spirit, which would make him omnipresent and omniscient.  Jesus says this in John 14 6- 11.

" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake". Jesus clams that the Father dwells in him. He even affirms that if you see him you see the Father. He even asks Phillip "has thou not known me." and asks "how sayest thou then show us the Father?".

     When he references glory, it means with fullness of His body that He had with the God the Father in the times of the Old Testament.  Genesis 1:26 where God said

" Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them".  Notice the singular words and phrase image and likness along with the plural word us and takes a possession of the image of God by stating "his own image".

     Christ has always been with the Father and image is that physical body that Jesus had.  Paul even says in Colossians 1:15-19 and 2:9

 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"  "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".

    Jesus is the image of the invisible God and Paul puts Jesus Christ with the Father in creation and showing that all things were created by him. It also states "in him should all fullness dwell in him bodily". 

 Paul further confirms this in Hebrews 1:2 and 3

"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;".

 Enoch and Elijah are examples of a rapture. Where else would God take these righteous men if not heaven or Abraham's bosom/paradise?

 

​The context within  2 Corinthians confirms that unknown is accurate.  Look at verses 5 through 20.  there are words and phrases such as interpret, uncertain, easy to be understood, distinction, how shall it be known, signification, know not meaning of  the voice, barbarian, understanding, edify, unfruitful etc, that backs up the word unknown.

1 Corinthians 14 :5  I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Corinthians 14 :6  Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

1 Corinthians 14 :7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

1 Corinthians 14 :8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

1 Corinthians 14 :9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

1 Corinthians 14 :10  There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

1 Corinthians 14 :11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

1 Corinthians 14 :12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

1 Corinthians 14 :13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

1 Corinthians 14 :14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 14 :15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1 Corinthians 14 :16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

1 Corinthians 14 :17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

1 Corinthians 14 :18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1 Corinthians 14 :19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

1 Corinthians 14 :20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

 

Paul gives a good illustration of the Antichrist in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The verse,that this discussion is on, is speaking of a certain lie,dealing with a belief system,concerning the Antichrist of Revelation chapter 13.

 Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

There is a correlation in Romans chapter 1.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Rom 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Rom 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Verses 16 though 32 pretty much sums up how God deals with those who believe or hold the truth in unrighteousness. It could be argued that God turning them over to a reprobate mind is similar to God send them strong delusion that they believe a lie: stated in  2 Thessalonians.

 

          ​I believe that only those in Christ, dead or who remain, will hear the shout of the Lord with the voice of the archangel and the Trump of God as stated in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Another indication is in Revelation Chapter 20.

Revelation 20: 1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.1  14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.  

                  Take note of verses 4 and 5.  It shows two resurrections. One called the first resurrection and the  other called the second death.Those verses seem to indicate that only  those of the first resurrection heard Christ. It also says blessed and holy are those who hath part in the first resurrection and further states, "On such the second death has no power."  I believe Paul clears this up in 1 Corinthians 15.  Also look at verse 11 of Revelation 20 to the end of the chapter. I do not see of the second death called but rather given up from the sea, death and hell, standing at the Great white throne judgment, and ultimately cast into the lake of fire.

1 Corinthians 15: 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.1 2  3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.3  9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 
 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 
 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.4  32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.5  33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 
 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 
 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?6  56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 
 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. 

     This whole chapter is about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Paul is explaining to them that if we believe only that Jesus lived in this life and he didn't rise again, Christians are of all men miserable and that our preaching is in vain. That if Christ didn't rise we are still in our sins. And those that are dead in Christ are perished. This coincides with 1Thessalonians 4 when Paul wrote about those that  are dead in Jesus. Do no sorrow not even as others that have no hope. And even says If we believe that Jesus Died and  rose again that even those who sleep in Jesus, God will bring with him.  Nothing will prevent them that are asleep in Christ from rising.  Why? Because they have the Hope of Jesus Christ's return.  We don't live in jeopardy every hour nor are the dead in Christ perished. It isn't a whisper at all.  That shout with the voice  of the archangel and the Trump of God falls on deaf ears of the lost.  

 

 

I have long questioned the translation of apostasia to "falling away" in the King James version.

I have learned that the 5 English translations prior to the King James rendered the word "departure".

 

The King James reads: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,

except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

The word apostasia was directly brought from the Koine Greek into the English language

long before the King James version (changing the ia into y).  To me, the correct translation

would refer to the rapture of the Church and then the revealing of the Antichrist. 

I feel that the deception (supernatural) of the Antichrist will be overwhelming

and the Church must be removed first.

 

Here is a link concerning this topic: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheRapturein2Thessalonians2_3.html

The translator Tyndale use the word departing. I believe the word departing meant a departing from the truth and into apostasy teaching.  If I remember correctly the 47 translators of the KJB.  Used along with the original tongues, the former translations diligently compared and revised.  They compared those other translations with the original tongues and revised it in the KJB. Thus making it the only accurate English translation to date.

The Greek word Apostasia translated to falling away is accurate.

He didn't wanted to be foresaken or separated from God the Father.

Phillipians 2 teaches that Jesus is equal to God and even has a salvation message with in it's pages

1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

or how about John 14 Jesus show equality to the Father.

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Even Isaiah proclaims this.

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
How about Revelation 20:11-13, Romans 14:9-11, 2 Corinthains 5:10, John 5:22 and 2 Timothy 4:1.
Revelation 20:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Romans 14:
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
2 Corinthians 5:
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
John 5:22
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
2 Timothy 4:1
4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

There is no getting around it the Bible is full of Showing Jesus' deity

There is another passage as well. Kinda sums it all up about the Deity of Jesus and His relationship to the Godhead.

Colossians 2:6-10
⁶ As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

⁷ Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

⁸ Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

⁹ For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

¹⁰ And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Notice what verse 9 says about were the fulness of the the Godhead dwells.

I don't think he sinned or was out of the Lord's will. Agabus prophecied that the man who owned the girdle would be bound by jews and sent to the hands of the Gentiles. It was a prophecy about Paul. If Paul had not gone, that means Agabus was lying. Paul was to preach to the gentiles. He was handed to them. He preached the gospel and died by thier hands. Jesus Christ even told Annanias that Paul was a chosen vessel unto him to bear his name not only to Gentiles but unto kings and the children of israel. Jesus also told him that He would show Paul how great things he must suffer for His name's sake. Paul did indeed suffer and bear Jesus's name before the Gentiles, kings and the children of israel.