Bro. Diego

Intresting, intresting.

There is a quote that says that once you can't answer something or yoiu don't have an argument then you attack the person.

So I am not surprised of some words.

By another way seems like a manipulation of verses to use it in your preference, hmm.
Something else that I have mention several times calls my attention that the ones who are always in pro of the charismatic practices to get in Baptist Churches are the same ones... sooo...

I see you can't answer the question. And with things that are facts that are true then you come with ... like a Catholic and blah, blah, because you are just avoiding to answer what is a fact.

Kevin, candlelight and the other one (I can't remeber the name) Here is the issue, I think you guys are manipulating the BIble and then avoiding the facts.

PLease, be honest at least you think Jesus would be there raising hands, crying and doing those charsmiatical practices?????? Because if then maybe we have a different Jesus. I have a Jesus who is solid, spirit adn truth.

Its just silly trying to compare me with Catholics, its funny what modern Baptist could say.

I don't know of any Baptists that go back 1900 years. lol
But who really cares what Baptists have done? I mean, come on, for a denomination claiming to put the Bible first, I see a lot of reliance on what Baptists have done historically, as if that's more important than searching it out in Scripture for oneself.

You mention the OT and being in the temple and in the tabernacle. But, when they met in the tabernacle, they couldn't go directly to God either. They also had a lot of ritual and sacrifices. I'd say that our services today are a LOT different than OT Judaism. I can guarantee they didn't have pianos in the tabernacle. :frog

Music is one form of worship. Worship takes place inwardly but can have multiple manifestations and we can manifest it in worship. I would also suggest going to the book of Psalms and reading through it.

Psalm 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.

Hand-raising in praise:
Psalm 63:4 Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name.

Psalm 134:2 Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the LORD.(notice the bold)

Dancing in praise:
Psalm 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Psalm 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

you didn't answer tough.
PLus history is good always that doesn't go against the Word of God.

All those verses and I repeat the question if that really mean to "dance", lift hands and all that in the temple or tabernacle, did they do it? No they didn't! Have yoiu ever heard a jew ceremony? Well you ll see how far from that it is, Those verses are out of the context and there real meaning. Now it is also important what church has done for 2000 years, since Christ built his church. I ask again: Has church been wrong for 1900 years? You know that is impossible to proove that there was Huss, or Wycliffe or Spurgeon doing thatm, because it was not teached to church to do it! noT EVEN jews did that in the temple or the tabernacle! NONE! intresting! So just to write psalms 150 would be out of the context.

We just had Gustav, we don't want Ike too, but I don't like our chances...

All the people whining about Hanna...it's just a tropical storm lol.

True Mrs W. but don't you think Hanna has weird, normally this storms dies fast, in one week or something but Hanna is still there being silly. Crazy Hanna.

I grew up in a Baptist home' date=' went to a baptist school, (Rainelle Christian Academy). But I got into a Christian web site, called satansrapture.com, and he sais that Baptists are on the high-way to HELL. Please pray that God reveals the trueth to me. [/quote']

Just wondering: How old are you?

in this moment of hurracanes with Hanna still bothering but getting more to calm, now we have another one behind. hurricane IKE, today changed from early morning hurricane category 2 to hurricane category 4, we have to watch this hurracane. In this moment its north to the Dominican Republic.

JOhn what do you think about a family retreat? You need to try at least for a moment to change the environment. I pray God can give you wisdom, of how to use the wise words toward your son.

Bro. Diego,

You are the product of some very narrowly focus'd and revisionist history of Baptists. You make some very bold and super confident claims that you are unable to support with Scripture. Please go back to the Psalms, and come back with your hands raised unto the LORD.

No, no. YOur wrong I make 3 esential arguments when you answer them then we can see if i am a "very narrowly focus'd and revisionist history of Baptists".

1- What does rasing hands in the OT means. (please don't tell me you do something with out knowing the meaning)
2- What was the "worship" in the Tabernacle and the temple in the OT.
3- What instruments where played or used at the Tabernacle and the Temple in the OT.

That is why I say, that sometimes we say the BIble doesn't say anything against but we don't take time to stop and analyze the verses.

Now in other hand, i can tell you I can hold historiccly what i said, by some reason it is called CONTEMPORARY, NEW, MODERN, ETC, ETC, ETC.
Or maybe you are right Christ started raising his hands and sining and crying and clapping ni middle of the synagogue, please! Don;t try to accuse me of something which is your preference. Or maybe Spurgeon in 1650, Spurgeon in 1850, or Huss in 1390, or Wycliff, or Patrick, etc. etc, etc. maybe they where at church there jumping, and rasing there hands and doing all those emotional things.
Hmmmm. so now who is the "very narrowly focus'd and revisionist history of Baptists"

Hi, I am back, Kevin how are you? Nice to see you again and again in almost everything i say, haha, its ok, one day when you invite me to Korea I will forgive you. :thumb :thumb Just Kiding.

Alrright lets see where do i start.

... Its called food fellowship after hunting season! The sacrafice is to those who really do not like deer but do not want to offend the hunter.

I have never tried deer, is it good?

You're gonna have to do better than calling people here "modern Baptists" and saying we're wrong wrong without providing an argument to support your case. You can say your views are based on any kind of historical thing that you want but you need to provide Bible to back up what your saying here.

I don't find anywhere in Scripture forbidding a person from raising their hands. On the contrary, it even goes to far as to saying that we should praise God in dance. That's not just the hands, that's the whole body.

Let's see Kevin.
First the issue of Modern BAPTIST, well Kevin as I mentioned i the past there is no historical documentation for 1900 years of Baptist raising hands, and doing all those things. As I said was it that for 1900 years we where wrong? And suddenly modern Baptist discovered and got lighted again in a "true" hmmm.. i don't think so, do you? Or would it be that let's see maybe charismatic and pentecostals strated all those practices and it has started to enter in some Baptist Churches? ohhh I think so, what about you?
About if the Bible backs up if people could be rasing there hands in the "worship". I challenge you to find me two verses where it says that during the "worship" they where doing those practices.
What did it mean to rais the hands in the Old Testament? You know? It is important to know what did it mean. That could change the perspective of things. (I AM LIVING YOU HOMEWORK KEVIN, i know is saturday but please forgive me my friend).
Then, I got one more thing, I have seen how several time different people start saying that in teh OT they did that, I got a homework for those who are saying that, tell me how did they "worship" in the tabernacle and then in the temple. And i say 'worship' because modern chrisitianity thinks that singing is synonym of "worshiping" and then they divided in songs of praises and songs of worship, haha, i never understood from where do they get that but well. So the homework is east tell me during singing what did they do in the temple in the OT, and how was the thing in the tabernacle. INstruments, etc...

JOhn 4:24
god is emotional, and they that worship him must worship him rasing hands and with your eyes closed.

ooooops sorry i confused of Bible in the King James 1611 says something like this:

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

You know what I like about all this.
It always happens, new books, with perverted and perverted stuff. Books like Da Vinci Code, and one that was before that I don't remeber the name, and many other books every certain time, that they only remeber in the memory of some. This books strat dissapearing, less people read them, and talk about them and it continues on, BUUT the Word of God doesn;t it remains powerful and eternal for ever and ever.

I would move from that neighbor. He obviously bad influence on your children and planting ideas in their head. or at least put up a privacy fence so he can't complain anymore. just an idea' date=' although you might not want to do that right away.[/quote']

Wise, smart! I back this comment, he has gotten those ideas from somewhere, I think if you get a chance to move it would be good.

NO they where in Jews Contemporary Music, just kidding, hey I have bad news, i know you are enjoying the subject and all that, but I have to go in this moment. I know that for tomorrow it is goingto have like 2 or 3 more pages of posts full of modern baptist, but I will see if I get a chance to continue talking this. By this moment I got to go, have a good night! It was good "talking".

I was thinking the same thing Princess. LOL. Hey, if the Jews worshipped to God this way...then it has to be good for us, too. Right? :thumb

candlelight, sisther. Got a question for you.
What did it mean to rais there hands? Why did they do it?

Now, regarding to the fact that jews did it in the OT, they also killed animals and made them in sacrifice, do they also do it in your church?

You wouldn't enjoy visiting too many Independent Baptist churches up here in the midwest, then. We're definitely separate from the world, but people in our churches do raise their hands in worship when a song moves them. It's not wrong to do so.

What would you do if someone raised their hand and closed their eyes during a song in your church?

That is a good question KJB_Princess (I wonder what is your real name to not have to write all that). Lets see. I would have to say that sinceresly in our church no one those that, I think and maybe we can agree on this, that people are teached and learn. For ex. your church has learned there is nothing wrong on rasing hands and clapping, and all that, as I have learned the opposite. So that is why many things could be the blame of teachers and pastors.
You know KJB_Princess I don;t really want to start a discussion on this but I do believe this:
- I have to praise in Spirit and truth. (I don't need my flesh and my hands)
- Do you think that lets say Spurgeon in the 1800, or anyone before lets say Marthin Luther who easn't even a Baptist do you think they where rasing there hands and jumping and all that, or could it be that for 1900 years the church has been wrong and not biblical and until 1900's they saw that we could play CCM, rais or hands, and do all those things we see today? I think its a fashion, its a thing of the time.
It really gets me mad, when they call some singers "worshiper" like if they had a special gift of been "worshipers" just because they rais there hand and do all those things, so if they are worshipers, what am I? An apple?
I know you don't agree, its ok. haha.

I think she's talking about raising your hands while singing. It's Biblical.

well, to be honest I don't agree on that either, but I am not intrested on starting a discussion over it.
What I can tell you is that I am amazed how many "types" of "IFB" are in the world. That is intresting. I will stand with the biblical,historicly distinctives, old fasioned, old paths, separatist, Independnt, soul winner Baptists.
But well, I respect (with out approving) others election.
In other words INDIVIDUAL SOUL LIBERTY.

The evangelist said, that...and, he was being funny. They praise and worship the way the jews did...with their arms held up high. "Bapticostals" is a word used up north (Ohio in particular). Psalms highlights many worship songs with much praise.

allright. :uuhm:

He said we should NOT be afraid to be "Bapticostals."

:thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :uuhm: :uuhm: :uuhm: :uuhm:
Thanks God your pastor never wrote a book of the Bible.

John, I don't know you, and you don't know me either, but what you wrote touches everyones heart with out been able to stop it.
I know its a hard time for you and altough we could say we understand its not true if we haven't pass all what you have, but John I got some words that I would like to share them with you and I hope that teh Lord may use them and encourage you, if not at least I can guarantee you that I give you my word that I will pray for your situation.


- John, I don;t have the privilege of being a father. But I do have the privilege of being a son. And altough I have never carry in my hands a baby which has my blood and part of me, as a son I got some words. I know in this moment could be hard to see your son and tell him I love you, I know its hard to think that something like this could be happening. But brother remeber we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. once JaCK Hyles said sucess oesn't come when you fail and stand, it comes when you fail, fail, fail, fail, continue down, and down, and then more down and finally at the end you have sucess. I say this because sometimes we forget how hard things can be, how hard can Satan hit us, our faily or what we more love. I can read that you are a christian that believes on teaching your sons in the paths of the Lord. And as a son, that was once rebel I can identify with your son. I had a bad life as a teenager, and my parents where christians. ( I am talking read bad stuff) BUt you know what, altough I prcaticlly was against what they teached me, what I learned home, what I saw, and I have to admit that I tought several times on running out of house but I never did, but time passed, and passed, I have memories which I would love to not have in my mind, but I can't erease them. But I always had a dad and mom, who continue loving the Lord, who continue telling me the same, and the same, and I contonue been worse and worse, I am ashamed of all the tears I took from my mom, and all the ashame I gave my dad. But to not make longer the story and here is where I want to get:
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. It became true, one day finally become truth, even when I remeber one day my dad opening the door of my house and saying in loud voice, the door is opened if you want to go you can go, and remebering my mom one day praying to the Lord and saying: "God if tehy are not going to serve you, take them to your presence" hard moments but a real promise. God made it at the end, A kid who failed several times at school, who robbed stuff who used drugs, but that had a father and mom who constantly, and constantly teached me what was correct. Today I can be more thank to God, of the family I have, Finally one day I had to give acounts to the Lord, crying and with out been able to live one day more like I was, I accepted Jesus gift to forgive me and make me his son. Yes, a son of a baptist pastor, someone who knew, but refused, Who didn't care anything more than me (and girls). one day God made once again his promise real.

IN conclusion I hope that this humble words, of this unworthy servant of the Lord may encourage you, today, with my age of 22 I am decided and called to be a pastor, to win this world for Christ, I have no bigger purpose than serving my Lord, but I wouldn't be what I am today if I wouldn't have a father and mother like you and your wife that believes on teaching them what God says independentlt of the attacks that the enemy can give. brotehr John, In the name of Christ I hope you stand and continue the fight, God is with you, my brother don't give up, stand up and fight for your family don'tlet Satan take it away from you, God gave it to you, ts not going to be easy, God tells us once and once again if you want to leave for him, its gong to be hard but he also says specially in this moment for you JOhn he says:

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Your friend and brother,

Romans 1:16
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

tex071487,

I admit I am an old -school, old fashioned, simple, ordinary, heady resoluted Baptist.
And lately I have seen many people that lately, (by many people i mean BIble Schools, Seminaries and even churches) who thinks that to be able to preach to a muslim you have to study the Koran, or to be able to preach the gospel to a jew you should study the TALMUD, and if you talk to an agnostic then you should use philosphy and human psychology and it continues on, but I can't agree on that idea because i believe with all my heart and convicted with all my spirit that the power of God unto salvation is his Word, his gospel, His message!
I believe the answer is which should study more the BIble, more the doctrine, the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. And I know God will use us, God will do the rest, we preach that rejected and forgotten message, that simple, sincere, blessed, holly and completed of heavenly power, because it is THE POWER OF GOD!

We already don't buy Pepsi products because they're one of the supporters of the Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce.

Is this true???!!!! wow, i didn't know that.

Well hurricane GustAV passed by the DR, but where I live its in the central part of DR so we just got thunder and mo power, alot of rain, but nothing really happened at the DR, what is important to know is that there is 2 hurricanes behind Gustav, the first one is called Hanna (for those who complained for an english name, there you go, it would be fair to put know a spanish name to the 3rd one.) We ll see what happens know with Hanna.

As a preacher I have get to know something, as more far of calvinism the better!! I am sorry for those who are calvinist but when they start talking as if they knew everything and they know the greta "revelations" and "deepness" and get all there theology in pure play of words and philosphy and quoting Mr. X and Mrs V, ayayii. I can't take it, it gives me such a headache. With all my respect for those who want to be calvinist they can be its there problem, but me, I don't stop to much even to study the craziness of calvinism. Once I was even reading a book that talked about the errors of calvinism, and I didn't even get a chance to finish it, I preach the Word of God, pure BIble, if you want to preach Calvinsim go ahead but very far of me, please!!! I will preach Word of God and just Word of God, I don't have to be studying what TULIP and all those things means, I don't loose my time.

mechanical pencil or a very thine tip pencil.


If you were a restaurant, which one would you be?

It can be a fast food.

Brian,
First, Reina-Valera is not a translation from KJV but when you put RV and KJV side by side and assuming that your spanish is really good then you will find that they are similar if not identical. RV and KJV used the same manuscripts. I would recommend RV 1960 but any version before that is fine but the spanish gets pretty stuff (your spanish should follow the guidelines from the REAL ACADEMIA ESPA

Well Kevin you ll see, I understand that the BIble never talks about a UNiversal church, but ittakls about a local and visible church, and then i would have to give ex. but I am going to be honest this month has been a horrible month here, and just as the theme of music i am not inspired in this moment to be arguing and I say this you say that and it continues, so I am in a vacatoin week of not arguing. When i get back of vacations I will give you a 30 points preaching about the local visible church and how historiclly baptist never believed on a universal invisible church, but man, in this moment yoiu are trying to ruin my vacatons, hahaha. Just kidding.

i shave for every church service, every sunday and wed, but sinceresly sometimes i get tired of shaving haha.

Clearly??? Hmm. I can't agree on that, if it would be true, why does so many people don't believe on it, including me?