Invicta

On 10/29/2023 at 5:55 PM, Jerry said:

Daniel 9:24-27 talk about a 490 year period (70 weeks of 7 years) where God will deal with Israel. Verse 27 refers to the final seven year period which is the time of the Antichrist’ s peace treaty with Israel. which has not happened yet. That is the tribulation period, which he breaks at the midpoint. Jesus refers to that in Matthew 24:15, and calls the last half (3 1/2 years) the great tribulation. There are seven direct references to the length of time that will be.

The Bible contains seven direct references to the length of the Great Tribulation (the second half - though both halves are the same length: seven years divided equally into two parts of 3 1/2 years each.

42 months - Revelation 11:2; 13:5

1260 days - Revelation 11:3; 12:6

A time, times, and half a time - Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 12:14

There are also two more references to Elijah’s end-time ministry and its length as being equal to the length of the drought he prayed for during his ministry in Old Testament times (3 years and 6 months). See James 5:17 and Luke 4:25

The 70 weeks were completed in the ministry of  Christ. Great tribulation in the gospels was on the Jews in The 3½  year Roman War, AD 66-70. Great tribulation in Revelation was on those who had washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, ie Christians. 

On 10/29/2023 at 5:00 PM, BrotherTony said:

The whole book of Revelation. Where do you come up with 10 days? I must be missing something here. There are three and a half years of relative peace with the antichrist signing a 3 1/2 year peace treaty with Israel. He breaks it which brings 3 1/2 years of great tribulation. Seven years total.

This is the second time you've implied someone is either "adding to scripture" or doesn't know what they are talking about. You've eluded to "10 years, " but have provided no scriptural reference to this.

Revelation 2:10.  

On 10/6/2023 at 4:32 PM, BrotherTony said:

That's a rather inflammatory statement, especially in light of the fact you haven't shown how it's allegedly adding to scripture. Most IFB churches clearly understand that there is a seven year period after the rapture of the church known as the Tribulation. 

Where in scripture does it say any time for tribulation other than 10 days?

On 10/4/2023 at 4:00 PM, Jerry said:

Where I come from, we call that twisting and explaining away the Bible - or a bait and switch! Yes, the church had always had its share of troubles, but the seven year tribulation period has not happened yet. It is after God raptures the church, turns back to Israel (Daniel 9:24-27 - it is the 7 year peace treaty with Israel that the one-world Antichrist makes and then breaks halfway through, leading to the great tribulation, the last 3 1/2 years - see Daniel 7:25; 12;7; Revelation 11:2-3; 12:6, 14; 13:5) - THAT hasn’t happened yet, neither have ANY of the events of Revelation 4 on), and ends with Jesus returning physically to earth (Zechariah 12-14) - that definitely hasn’t happened yet!

Where does it say the tribulation is seven years?

I think that is adding to scripture. 

The tribulation on the church has been going on from the founding of the church. 

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

As far covid goes, our! Church has not had special cleaning since the covid lock down. Perhaps we should start again as the week before last, one family of six, had covid, and last Sunday our pastor and his wife and five of his children had covid.

One of our former foster children became a member of a church in Liverpool which refused to lowdown.  They had only 12 members before and 40 after the lock down.

On 9/30/2023 at 3:43 AM, SureWord said:

Who ever refers to a pastor as an angel of a church? These angels are literal angels.

Galatians 3:19- Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 1:8- But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Do angels preach the gospel? 

I stopped using socks several years ago, except when i am gong to buy new shoes. I always use slip on shoes which I put on with the aid of a long handled shoe horn.

I did spicy roast chicken  today with crinkle cut fries and baked beans, my wife had a cauliflower cheese grill with hers instead of chicken .

I did chicken chips and runner beans today. The runners are a bit prolific at present in the garden. I should have taken some to church this morning to give away, but I forgot. 

We don't have a "music portion" in our church. We have hymns interspersed through the service. The pastor or preacher choose the hymns, appropriate to the sermon. We can only use the hymn books approved by the pastor and deacons. Pastor will not allow guitars due to their association with rock music.  I did wonder if he has heard any rock or boogie pianists.

Pastor does use some dreary hymns. He always reads a psalm the sings a hymn dashed on the same psalm. In the morning it is usually a much mangled version of the psalm, which I don't think most people understand. I did mention it to him and he asked if I didn't like singing psalms. I said I do but I dont think most people actually think what they are singing. I think it is more inappropriate as we have a number of immigrant asylum seekers attend the church and they are mostly people that my daughter teaches English lessons in the church. Some of them only understand a little English.

The immigrants are housed in a local Holiday Inn and a couple are also attending lessons at the mormons which are just across the road from there. The mormons have been canvassing their lessons on the local residents Facebook page, but the don't say they are mormons, just give the address.

I can't see how anyone can be saved after the rapture. We were taught that the holy spirit will be removed so no one can be saved.  That was when I was in a dispy church but I left there nearly 50 years ago.

The teaching of the earliest protestant church that I could trace in history who were pre tribulation taught that the earth would be left without a preacher for those 3½ years 

Today I had roast beef with  Dijon style potatoes,  runner beans from the garden, carrot

Dijon potatoes.   Potatoes,  cream, Dijon mustard, lemon juice, shallots  chervil and chives. Baked with grated cheese on top. Recipe calls for fresh  chervil, but you can't buy it in the stores here so I used dry chervil. 

On 8/5/2023 at 2:48 AM, Disciple.Luke said:

In every Kingdom Hall I've visited there is always a private meeting room that also serves as library of bookshelves filled with a single copy of all the old books. 

At the first Kingdom Hall I visited they had all six volumes of Charles Taze Russell's Studies In the Scriptures book set up right in the middle of the table where people say for private meetings.

They have to know that not only did Russell use the the crown and cross symbol but just a few pages into into the first volume book called the Divine Plan of the Ages there is fold out page diagram of the measurements of the Egyptian pyramids show how Russell used them to come up with date like 1914.

A great way to find apologetics topics to use against JWs is by visiting the Bible Students Movements websites. The modern students are mostly descendants of Russell's early followers who refused to accept the leadership of Judge Rutherford after Russell died. 

While they are some similarities in beliefs the Bible Students stuck with Russell's original teachings so they don't refuse later doctrines about blood transfusions, rejecting the cross, shunning, all holidays are evil, and many of them still use the KJV and for sure none of them use the Watchtower New World Translation.

There are several groups still around that are mostly based on location and still meet in members houses. Some of the ones with websites I'd look up are the Dawn Bible Students, Chicago Bible Students, the Columbus Student Movement.

They used the cross and crown till 1931. At the beginning of the year they han it on the Watchtower and at the end of the year it was gone.

I did a few 

On 8/3/2023 at 8:11 PM, BrotherTony said:

No.. Sorry. I should have clarified that. Bell peppers are what she uses.

Well here what you call  bell peppers, we just call peppers, and chili just chili.  I have met Americans who when the refer to pepper mean chili. 

At the weekend I did slow cooked beef stew for me and vegetable and bean stew for Kay.  It lasted for 3 days finishing it up today for lunch. There was enough gravy left, just, for me to make into hot and sour soup served with homemade wholemeal bread this evening.  Kay had a spring roll and a couple of camembert  bakes.

I find it hard to believe that followers of Myers and her like are Christian's, as they never have heard the true gospel. When she and others do refer to the bible they make it sound the opposite from what it actually teaches.

I went to Aldi this morning and passed the usual JW pitch. There was only one elderly lady there and I spoke to her and asked some questions. Another lady turned up with their stall.  Instead of setting up their stall. She saw me and immediately said to the other lady come on we'll go for a cup of coffee. I actually wasn't intending to go to Aldi but to the outlet centre. However I went over the footbridge over the river instead of turning right and going along the riverside path. But I got to the outlet centre after Aldi by going along the road to the next junction and could pick up the path a few yards down, but it is a very busy junction and I dont like crossing it on my mobility scooter.

On the way back I passed the two JW ladies, who refused to look at me, they kept talking to each other as if I wasn't there. 

I was trying to think of the verse where,  I think it was Paul, said, something like always be prepared to defend your faith, but I can't remember. As someone said, "My memory is what I forget with." 

For lunch I had lamb steak and vegetables. 

Not sure what I am doing for supper yet and it is time to be eating it. I will probably get something out of the freezer.

On 8/2/2023 at 1:18 AM, BrotherTony said:

I believe she used Vidalia onion, red and green pepper, a couple of cloves of garlic, black olives, ground beef or venison, and Italian seasoning.  It's very good.

By red and green pepper do you mean chilies?

ÞMy Grandaughter gave a thumbs up on the Dawkins right hand man video, but didn't comment  

In case yo have not seen it  here it is:

9 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Tonight we finished up the Italian casserole my wife made on Sunday. It's lasted 3 days. Thank the Lord for that. 

Sounds good. What is an Italian Casserole,  do you have a recipe?

Tonight I did pizzas. 

On 7/5/2023 at 9:58 PM, TheGloryLand said:

Your daughter, being raised up in a Christian Christ centered home, meets a Jehovah witness gentleman, and they get married. What is the chance of your daughter changing denominations?  We know that each case can be different. What is the percentage that he can become a Christian. Lastly, how would you feel? Would you feel that God let you down in someway?

What would the organisation say if he married a non JW?  If she was a Christian,  she shouldn't marry a non Christian.  But being raised in a Christ centred home doesn't make one a Christian.  

On 7/5/2023 at 9:58 PM, TheGloryLand said:

Your daughter, being raised up in a Christian Christ centered home, meets a Jehovah witness gentleman, and they get married. What is the chance of your daughter changing denominations?  We know that each case can be different. What is the percentage that he can become a Christian. Lastly, how would you feel? Would you feel that God let you down in someway?

I this hypothetical question or does it refer to  some one you know?

On 2/19/2022 at 4:47 PM, robycop3 said:

 I've been in some discussions with some preterists on other boards. Their main arguing point is the "time indicators" in Revelation & Matt. 24 that they say shows those events happened 66-70 AD, but they ignore several things. The most-obvious, of course, is that THE EVENTS HAVEN'T YET OCCURRED!. They ignore rev. 3:10 where Jesus says the trib will come upon THE WHOLE WORLD. And they ignore Rev. 19, which plainly says the beast will be in power when Jesus returns. That chapter alone proves preterism completely false.

  Again,  I believe the trib begins with the 7 seals of the scroll Jesus is unrolling, & the 4 horsemen. Then, the events of the seals, trumpets, & vials come close togtther, til we see the events of the 7th seal, trumpet, & vial are very similar. I believe they'll be simultaneous, & will all occur well before 3.5 years have passed from their beginning.

People "believe" a lot of things but they are often wrong. I have a lot of conversations with JWs and they believe a lot of things that are unbiblical. They are indoctrinated and brainwashed so it is very difficult unless you can get them to think.  EXAMPLE, Who sent His angel Rev 22  NWT vrse 6  Jehovah God. verse 16 I Jesus .

Same chapter. Who is the first and last verse 12. NWT    I Jesus  verse 16.

Who is the first and last NWT Rev 1:8 Jehovah God Isaiah 44:6 Jehovah God. 

My NWT is the original 1960 edition and they may have changed some of those in the latest edition. 

NWT John 1:1 And the word was A God. Q. So you believe in two gods? 

John 17:3 NWT This means eternal life their, taking in knowledge of you, the only true God and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. Question Is Jesus then the true God or a false god?