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282Mikado

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Everything posted by 282Mikado

  1. The last movie we went out to see was Stewart Little on New Years Eve 1999. I don't see us ever going again either. We don't have any T.V. reception at our house (antenna, cable, or dish) and haven't for two years. We do have a VCR and Blueray/DVD player, but we have a hard fast rule that if we would not let the children watch...we don't watch. Prior to getting a movie I always check it at the Dove Foundation: http://www.dove.org/default1.asp. They are pretty accurate in their reviews. I can't tell you the last time I rented a movie. We always go to the Library and check them out for free. The only "T.V." exposure we get is Food Network, which places full episodes of their more popular series on their website. We like to watch those from time to time as we all enjoy cooking and food. You are all right. From the earliest days of television hollywood has been tearing apart the fabric of the traditional family. While in California back in 2006 we drove through Hollywood and found that it was not a good place to be. You know, a place where you roll up the windows and lock the doors as you pass through. How appropriate. As Christians we have to live in a world where there is a lot of moral filth and decay. As we pass through these areas I believe it is best to roll up the spiritual windows and lock the spiritual doors to let as little as possible in. To stop and give it a ride on your television is pure folly. He shall die without instruction; and in the greatness of his folly he shall go astray. Proverbs 5:23
  2. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/australian-professor-christian-schools-promote-bad-values/ WHAT A TRAVESTY!!! Imagine...teaching that it is preferable for children to be born into a stable home where there is a loving (and married) mother and father that are emotionally, financially, and spiritually responsible, and fully prepared to care for that child. News Flash 'Professor Maddox': just because something is considered a 'societal norm' does not mean it is necessarily the best thing for that society. Promiscuity and homosexuality are not preferable to a monogamous lifelong relationship. Just check out disease and death rates amongst these various groups. Nor should abortion be deemed an acceptable means of birth control versus abstinence as is born out by the proven negative psychological and health impacts abortion has had on the women who have had abortions. There are still some tribes in the world where cannibalism is the societal norm. Perhaps Prof. Maddox should move there and try to assimilate. Today's societal norms are clearly defined in Romans 1:21-32. If Macquarie University is teaching against such things that I say, "More power to them!!"
  3. Okay, this is a LOOOOONG post, but I think it is a good biblical defense for the institution of marriage. The whole marriage process of the Old Testament Jew is a picture of the marriage between Christ and His Church of the New Testament. It is said that In the Old Testament Christ is concealed, in the New Testament Christ is revealed. These words grow truer the more I read the Bible. On Marriage: Deuteronomy 7:3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 1Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. On Divorce (For why should a divorce be necessary? If all we are doing is living together, breaking a contract should not be necessary.): Matthew 5:31-32 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Mark 10:2-9 2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. 3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? 4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. From these last verses we can see that God officiated the first wedding between Adam and Eve. As with the sacrificial system nothing was put into writing, but the structure was there. Once the Jews left Egypt and were preparing to enter into the Promised Land (at Mt. Sinai), the written law was given to Moses for the governance of so large a population. Marriage (From Easton’s Bible Dictionary) Was instituted in Paradise when man was in innocence #Ge 2:18-24 Here we have its original charter, which was confirmed by our Lord, as the basis on which all regulations are to be framed #Mt 19:4,5 It is evident that monogamy was the original law of marriage #Mt 19:5 #1Co 6:16 This law was violated in after times, when corrupt usages began to be introduced #Ge 4:19 6:2 The marriage relation is used to represent the union between God and his people #Isa 54:5 Jer 3:1-14 Ho 2:9,20 In the New Testament the same figure is employed in representing the love of Christ to his saints #Eph 5:25-27 The Church of the redeemed is the "Bride, the Lamb’s wife" #Re 19:7-9 In the Old Testament we also see the term “concubine” (from Easton’s Bible Dictionary): “In the Bible denotes a female conjugally united to a man, but in a relation inferior to that of a wife.” In today’s vernacular a concubine would be that person you are “living with”. Biblical Marriage This is an excerpt from a Bible Study I found in a Messianic Jewish website. I include it because it shows God’s true design behind the principle of marriage. Marriage is not only to bring a man and a woman together, it is:A picture of man’s relationship with God. A picture of everything Christ did for His Bride, the Church, outlined nearly 2000 years before Christ was on earth in the flesh. This is what makes God so awesome and His Word (the Bible) so fresh! Every time you look into His word you find something new and often glorious that you can take away and apply to your life. The Study When studying the Scriptures it becomes evident that intimacy between Jesus and His Church is no better illustrated than in the ancient Jewish wedding customs. The Lord gave us these things so that we could and would understand His attributes. This is His propose for every Believer. Jesus, Himself, made several references to the Church being like a Bride waiting for her Bridegroom as will be seen. The marriage consists of two parts. 1st: The betrothal - Erusin or Kidushin. 2nd: About one to two years later is the wedding ceremony called, Nisuin or Huppah. The betrothal is a parallel to the engagement in most ways except that in the ancient Jewish custom, it was binding! It was so binding that it could not be broken without an orthodox divorce. You were considered bound together from the period you entered the betrothal contract until the wedding day. When Joseph discovered that his betrothed wife Mary was with child he had real grounds to obtain an orthodox divorce and would have if the angel had not appeared unto him and explained what was going on. From that point on Joseph knew it was the hand of God that was upon her. He had no more reason to put her away. The whole marriage rite is laid out in a series of twelve steps: The Bridegroom's Father chooses the Bride; the Groom in most cases does not. He sends a friend or a trusted servant to come to terms with the parents of the prospective Bride, and makes all the arrangements. The Bride may not have any idea of what this person looks like or even know his age. All she knows is she will spend her whole life with him if she says yes to this marriage! This representative can be seen as a portrait of the Fathers Holy Spirit in the Scriptures. It is He who nudges our hearts, and calls us to enter into this union with our Bridegroom Messiah. John 6:43-44 43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 1 Peter 1:8 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: The price was secured for the Bride, and was usually something of great value: Lands, livestock, silver or gold. In the Believers instance the supreme price was paid, the precious Blood of Jesus. Jesus left His Home and the Glory of Heaven to come to earth to pay the ultimate price for a Bride. This was so He might return once again to prepare a place for us, a Home with Him in the Glory of Heaven. I Peter 1:18-19 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Philippians 2:5-7 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: The Betrothal ritual is like an engagement party. The promise was made and it was binding. The man and wife do not live together or have sexual intercourse at this time. A cup of wine is lifted up and drunk by the Bride to seal the Betrothal. More on the cup in the 6th step, but it is interesting to note that the cup is lifted in the right hand. The right hand is a place of power Biblically speaking. Matthew 26:27-29 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom. Jesus, when lifting the cup at the Passover understood that in just a short time from that moment, He would also be lifted up on the cross. It would be for His Bride that He would suffer and do this! Over and over again we will see that He alone cuts this Covenant, we have no part, other then to accept what He has done for us.The written marriage contract is drawn up and in it the Bride is promised that she will be provided and cared for in every way. It states that all of her needs will be fulfilled by the Bridegroom. The Hebrew term for Bridegroom is "Hatan" meaning: "one who enters Covenant." This contract is always signed before two witnesses, then given to the Bride and her Father. The Holy Scriptures are our Wedding document. It tells us all that our Bridegroom has done for us and will do for us - and so much more! Matthew 6:28-30 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Phil. 4:19But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Hebrews 12:2 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. These are just some of the promises. He will provide all things for His Bride. As I said before, the Bride had to be in agreement with this marriage, and so it is with us. By our free will do we enter into this contract. Even the Saints of old were looking ahead to this wonderful place and event. The writer of Hebrews tells us: Hebrews 11:8-10 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Today to enter into this Covenant I must accept Jesus, and confess Him with my mouth to be LORD of my life. When the Messiah is revealed to us it is through the Holy Spirit. We must say "I do" in Hebrew it is the word ‘daat,’ or I could say, "I do not" which is not a good answer to give Him. However, making this decision is our choice. Making this selection is really our first act of intimacy. Exclusively ours because, God has given to us free will to choose our Bridegroom. However, He knew from the beginning what our answer would be! This act of choosing our Bridegroom reveals to our Lord how intimate we want Him to be with us, and this revealing works both ways. It is a form of worship.At this point the cup was drunk from. This cup is also called the shared cup of the Brit, i.e. Covenant. The two are now really married. The betrothed secured, i.e. sealed. Gifts are now given to the Bride and her family from the Bridegroom or His Servant, as in the case of Abraham sending his servant, Eliezer. Eliezer came with 10 camels filled with gifts to secure a Bride for Isaac. Eliezer means: comforter, helper, and is a picture of the Holy Spirit of God. Every time we share in the cup of Communion we are re-affirming our marriage Covenant with our Bridegroom Jesus. We should always remember what it was that Jesus our Bridegroom achieved for us personally, with the Covenant of Communion in His Blood. Jeremiah 31:31-34 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Jesus also gave us many gifts. The blessed Holy Spirit with all of His gifts: Prophecy, Peace, Joy, Knowledge, Eternal Life, His Righteousness which is our Cover, and best of all His Love Everlasting. The shared cup of Communion secured by the nails of the Covenant of the Cross makes us partakers with Him in everything, and it's all His doing! In Hebrew the word for the Jewish Bride is the word "Kallah," meaning: "complete”, or as some teach: "enclosed one." This brings to my mind a Scripture from Song Of Songs: Song of Solomon 4:12 12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed. The Bride went through a ritual immersion, i.e. washing, to symbolize her turning aside from all the former things and starting a new life with her Beloved. We are given water baptism for the purification of our old ways and to make us ready for our Heavenly home. When the Hebrews came out from Egypt and prepared to enter into the Covenant with Elohim, the whole Congregation had to be cleansed with water. She was to be set apart, enclosed before they could come close to the LORD God. We must also do the same? And sometimes for some of us, more then once. They had to do it before meeting God, we now do it after we receive His Son. Romans 6:3-6 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Mikvah: ritual immersion, i.e. baptism is a symbolic weapon of separation. When we obey the Lord and follow His example of immersion, we are embarking on our new life by departing and saying, farewell to the old ways. This is a cutting off or a putting off of the old and this pleases both the Father, and the Bridegroom. Really it is a signpost for ourselves to remind us we are dead to trespasses, and alive unto God. Acts 19:2-6 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. There is water immersion, and there is an immersion of the Holy Spirit, and they are for whosoever will.At this point the Bridegroom would depart and go back to his Fathers house to prepare a place for the wedding and his new Bride. A pledge is made by the Bridegroom affirming to his Bride that he will indeed return for her. Jesus did the same! We read Jesus’ pledge in the Gospel of John: John 14:1-3 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. These words above are the same words spoken in the ancient Jewish Wedding rite. Jesus speaks to His followers as a Bridegroom, affirming to them that He would come to take them to Himself. This is when Messiah will come to sequester us in a chamber made ready for His Bride. A time of separation intimacy, and privacy with our Lord. Most believe it will be for 7 years (during the tribulation); one to match each day that the Bride and Bridegroom spend in the wedding chamber, alone and separated from the rest of the world. Isaiah 26:20-21 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.Now the time of waiting comes! The Bride would prepare herself making all the preparations to be the best Bride she could be. She waits with baited breath for the Bridegroom to come. I know how anxious she is! She doesn’t know the exact time when her Beloved will come for her, this time is "only" known by the Bridegroom's Father. When the Father sees that all of His Son's preparations for the wedding chambers (chadar) are ready, then He will allow His Son to transport His Bride to His home. Matthew 25:1-5 1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. This parable is a teaching about "readiness," it is plain and it is simple. At this point in the Bride's life she is surrounded by her family and friends who she will be leaving very soon. She is filled with emotions. She may be going on a long journey to the land of her husband; far from her family’s home. She is occupied with feelings twisting inside of her. Maybe even doubt if her Bridegroom will come for her, cool feet so to speak! Filled with these emotions the serpent speaks to her mind: "You are not a worthy bride, look at all of your flaws. Who would really want you with all your spots? You are full of wrinkles." When the enemy of our well being speaks to us we usually listen to his lies. How foolish we are to listen to him. We are already married to the Bridegroom, and the Covenant is sealed! Rebecca was a zealous Bride, enthusiastic to go meet her Beloved Isaac. She did not vacillate at all; she is the perfect picture of Messiah’s Bride. He is coming for a Bride who is without spot or wrinkle. 2 Peter 3:13-14 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. Ephesians 5:25-27 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. It was said by the Jewish Sages of old, and even today’s Rabbis teach this truth. On the day of your wedding the Bride and Bridegroom stand before God without spot, and without blemish. It is only the devil, the enemy of the soul who tells us otherwise. We must remember the words of our Beloved Bridegroom, and resist the lies of the devil and his fallen angels. Isaiah 61:10 10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. It is Jesus who makes her that way, not herself. He gives us our robe, and crowns.When the Bridegroom comes to get His Bride it is more of a willing kidnapping. It could be called a snatching in the middle of the night. The Bridegroom and His friends would sneak up on the Bride suddenly. However, not without a shout first! Then there was a blast of the shofar sounding out, she must be ready to run to her Beloved, to flee with him with no hesitation or procrastination. I can’t wait till I hear His shout, and the sound of His shofar, how about you? Matthew 25:6 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. It is interesting and certainly worth remembering that one of the names for the Feast of Trumpets according to Jewish literature, is "The wedding day of Messiah." This whole marriage feast is a picture of the LORD coming for His Bride before Yom Kippur, the Day of Judgment. Maybe even this year! Messiah has a "deed" for you, its the Ketubah - the Betrothal Covenant. He is now our Master and our Husband. He has the rights to come to take us to His home because He paid the "Mohar" - the Bridal Price. When He comes He will come from the place of Power, i.e. the Father's right hand. This is the perfect picture of the Yod! The Bridegroom with His strong open hand takes His Bride away to the place that he has prepared, and the marriage is now consummated. The Tallit (the Jewish prayer Shawl) serves many times today as the Huppah. Made of silk or fine wool it is raised over the couple. It can also be held up by poles or trees that may have been planted at the birth of the Bride or Bridegroom. If he’s a rich Bridegroom he may give her all of her wedding garments before hand, which she gladly receives as part of his price. Messiah has given use all of our garments as well! Blessings are said over the couple, this is call the Birkot Nisuin, the 7 blessings. The second cup of wine is now drunk, and this sets the second seal to the marriage Covenant. We are waiting to drink this cup with our Bridegroom Jesus. Now the new couple will spend 7 days together in the wedding room, the "Huppah." This starts the honeymoon cycle, this is where the Bridegroom will cover her with Himself. This is also called the "Nisuin" or the "hometaking." Jewish Bridegrooms do this part today at the wedding by placing their Tallit over their Brides so all can witness it. The new couple will now become one flesh - Echad. This is also called "Kidushin" meaning: sanctification or ratification. They will get to know each other like never before, this is more than a face to face encounter. This also has an ancient name, "Yihud" or the "Knowing." The act of sexual intimacy takes place between the Bride and the Bridegroom. The bed sheets with her blood on it were given to the Brides family. This was so they could never say she was not pure before the wedding day. It was in a sense, her insurance policy. I believe it will be Messiah’s bloody garments that will be our insurance policy. It is His covering that dresses me, not my own. His hand is open to me! I Cor. 13:12 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.And now it is time for the wedding feast to begin! Our Wedding Feast will be in the place that Jesus has prepared. Immediately after the 7 days of the Huppah, the couple come out of the room and join their guests. These guests have a special name; they are called the B’nai Huppah, "children of the Bridal Chamber." They will join the Bride and Bridegroom to a very festive marriage feast. This is the meal that the couple share with their guests after the 7 days of being alone is over. This meal is called Seudat Mitzyah, a festive meal! Also at the end of the 7 days Jesus will be crowned King, and we shall be His Queen. We will rule and reign with our Beloved forever. This is for Israel and all who are grafted into her. Messiah has now been given a Staff ("The Rod of God”) to rule with just like all the past kings of Israel. The one thousand years begin; this is the millennial reign of Messiah on earth. This is the time of peace we read about in the book Isaiah. This is when the Bridegroom will rejoice over His Bride. Isaiah 62:5 5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. Revelation 19:7-9 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. We will dance and play our tambourine like Miriam did, and maybe even with Miriam! We will hear our Bridegroom rejoicing over us, what a day this will be! A Feast like no other we have ever seen or heard about, phenomenal to say the least! The proposal is made and we have accepted. Now the invitations are being sent out to all Believers who are part of His Bride. Are you ready and waiting for your Beloved Bridegroom? I am.
  4. You are referring to Romans 13, but that is not an all-inclusive mandate to follow every law of man. In the Gospel of Mark we find: And he (Jesus) said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15 Yet in many countries it is illegal to preach the gospel, some where preaching the gospel may bring your death. Does that mean we are to disobey God because man's law holds precedence? Since the very beginning God has proclaimed that marriage is to be between one man and one woman: 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Genesis 2:22-24 4 And he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Matthew 19:4-6 Just because a law is enacted does not make it right and if it goes against God's word it is my obligation and duty to God to fight that law. Also, this country is not built upon the premise that we all have the freedom to choose how we live. If this were true we would not need a license to hunt, fish, or drive. I would not need a permit to own a pistol. There are many things that I may "choose" to do that bring harm to noone, yet I am either restricted or prohibited from doing them. Yet there are an increasing number of things that are or are becoming legal that do bring harm to others and they are all made legal under the guise of "people have a right to live their lives the way they want". I speak of abortion, alcohol, gambling, homosexual marriage, homosexual adoptions, etc. I refuse to call evil things good, or condone those that do those evil things: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20 By the way, There are now 30 states that have passed constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriage, and each of those amendments passed by a huge margin of the popular vote. Eight more states and that constitutional amendment could go federal (If we have enough people in Congress with the spine to do so).
  5. ...and do you believe that this is somewhere in the Bible? Do you think God would be pleased with this type of relationship after reading Leviticus 20:13 or Romans 1? There are American citizens out there that practice polygamy, pedophelia, incest...etc. Should all these people be given their "rights" so that they can freely practice their sin? Are you in favor of legalizing drugs as well? Just because you are a citizen of America doesn't mean you have the right to practice whatever abomonation you would like to practice. Homosexuality is a sin. It is an unhealthy lifestyle (especially for the males), and legalizing their unions will end up costing our companies and our country millions if not billions of dollars per year. Ultimately though...Homosexuality is a sin. God said it and I believe it, and if God is agin' it, I'm agin' it!
  6. StandingFirm, you really need to give this topic a rest. You were making the same arguments when I was on this board over 4 years ago. Arguing about whether it should be called tithing or not is about as useful as arguing about the Gap Theory. Most mature, sincere Christians are probably giving at least 10% or more whether they call it tithes, offerings, gifts, or whatever else. Is God going to look on my offering less than yours because I happen to still use the word "tithe". If so then I guess the blood of Christ isn't all sufficient (No disrespect intended, I am only making a point). Or perhaps I will get to heaven and God will say, "Here I had 10 crowns for you, but you insisted on calling your offerings "tithes". I am sorry, you can only have 5 crowns". Somehow I don't see that as likely. Perhaps the missionaries that are supported through my tithes and offerings are really only effective with that portion of my money that goes in as offerings and the tithe portion is just wasted away. Again, I don't think that is likely. Give with a joyful heart unto the Lord and He will accept it whatever you call it. You can call it offerings all you want; if it is offered insincerely, it is of no affect in Heaven.
  7. Even as a child I was never a big comic book fan. I suppose if the content was solid and the graphics decent I would not object, but I prefer true books over comic books. Comic book naratives are never as good as a true book and besides, my imagination always seemed to offer better visualizations than what is offered within the constraints of the comic books. FYI I did not vote as my answer was not available. I would not actively pursue any kind of comic book, nor encourage my child to read them. I would allow them if the content was suitable.
  8. In politics (and unfortunately in many “evangelical” circles) the term Christian is just that: a “term” used to garner some favorable result. Neither of the presidential front-runners have any affinity to Christianity except with regards to the votes Christians cast. I do not need a news article, editorial or the “Reverend” White to tell me Obama is not a Christian; all I need is a King James Bible: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:20-23 It does not take an honest Christian long to discern that Obama is no Christian. Look to his recent pronouncement in favor of homosexual marriage, his continuous support for abortion, his bowing to Muslim potentates and his reticence to support Israel. Additionally, would not an honest Christian be open and forthcoming about his past, including the provision of documents and transcripts of past deeds? What is he hiding and why? A person that has honestly repented and been saved would freely divulge his past and trust in God to place him in the position of authority best suited to him. We haven’t seen that kind of politician in a very long time…if ever. Even by the secular idiom “man is known by the company he keeps” we not only see that Obama is not Christian, but he is not to be trusted with the best interests of this country: Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, David Axelrod, Derrick Bell, Carl Davidson, Frank Marshall Davis, Anita Dunn, Sam Graham-Felson, Kevin Jennings, Jeff Jones, Van Jones, Rashid Khalidi, Mike Klonsky, etc. By the way, Obama is pronounced Ó-bă-mă, not O-ba’-ma. He’s Kenyan, not Irish.
  9. I have concantenated all the relevant posts of Trells to make it easier to follow: The Birth Date of Jesus Christ (as submitted by ‘Trell’) First let me explain how I will approach this, and see if anyone interested can and will accept the 'format'. I believe God's Word, as originally given, is perfect. I also believe every version of that original God-breathed Word is just what it says it is - a version - and as such is subject to problems. This includes the King James Version. I believe that no prophesy (which includes foretelling and forth-telling) of the scripture is of any private interpretation, and since that is the case it either cannot be interpreted, or it contains the keys and tools within itself on how to interpret it. For example, when God says Abraham is a prophet, yet there is nothing recorded of Abraham foretelling, but there is much recorded of him forth-telling, the definition of prophet is different from what most religions define a prophet to be. Students of the Bible must be meek to God's definitions, rather than their own. Since the English word 'logic' comes from the Greek word 'logos', I believe sound logic must be employed in understanding God's Word. An example of this would be that if the star over Judea which the wise men saw was viewable, then there would be a record of it among a people who studied the heavenly bodies. Lastly, God has a reason and purpose for everything He says, where He says it, why He says it, when He says it, how He says it, and to whom He says it. Having said all that, the KJV would be the primary text; science (astronomy included) must fit with the Bible, and not the Bible with science; everyone, including the teacher) should always be open to learn as Jeremiah 33:3 proclaims; and there is no room for single-issue thinking at the expense of Biblical truth. God's Word, rightly-divided, is truth. All else, at best, is fact. One step at a time...baby steps...no offense to anyone. By the way, the term is Cowboy Up. 1) Except where absolutely needed, I am not going to type or copy the scriptures. I will give the references. Everyone should look them up themselves. 2) We will use KJV. There may be explanatory notes. I don't desire to get drawn into a debate on this. Holler at me elsewhere. 3) Please ask questions. Statements such as 'I don't believe that' will be ignored. Such statements are unproductive. 4) I have well over a hundred reference works I could cite. If you want specifics, ask and I will give them individually on here. 5) Most important !! This is not being done on here to hurt or cause trouble. The question was asked, I am endeavouring to answer. This is NOT my thread or question. Let us begin an study of when Jesus, the Christ, was born. In this study, we will be looking at God's Word, whether written on paper or in the stars, and history. In looking at the stars, do not confuse astronomy, the science of the heavens and their bodies (which we will be doing), with astrology, the supposed art of telling the future. God created the heavens, the earth, and set the stars in motion. He specifically gave names to stars. Ps 147:4 For us, so accustomed to reading the written word, it is difficult at times to see how God's revelation could be written in the heavens. God ...at sundry times and in divers manners. Heb 1:1 The stars are one of these divers manners in sundry times. They tell of the redemptive plan, not the when of it. Ps 19:1-6 If one were to study the words in this psalm, they would see the great detail with which God has spoken in the heavens. Gen 1:14 explains more. We all know days and years. Seasons indicate the four seasons, but also the word seasons also indicates periods of time. Signs is from the Hebrew root avah, which means 'to mark', and is used of marking someone significant to come. God put His revelation in the heavens, even before man was here and the promise of Gen 3:15 was given. Just as God preserved for us in this day and time His written Word, so also did He preserve the meanings, the names, the order of His Word in the heavens. This is how the people of old, before city lights and printed books, before all the so-called modern conveniences, could read God's Word. Through the millenia and centuries, God preserved the original names of the stars using the Semetic languages. This is what makes up accurate, true, Biblical astronomy. Any use of the stars for any kind of astrology is wrong. See Isaiah 47:12-14 When God put the lights in the heavens, the sun and moon mark for us the days, months, and seasons. So also the stars (all heavenly bodies, what we now call planets and stars, are Biblically classified as stars) mark the signs of God's plan of redemption, Jesus the Christ. After answering any questions which I can, (and are not jumping ahead too far), we will examine a bit on the constellations (See Gen 49:9-10 and Rev 5:5) and some ancient names of stars (remember, that includes planets) and how the wise men of Matt 2 knew what they knew. Jacob, in Gen 49:9-10, by inspiration, declares Judah is symbolized by the lion (Leo in the zodiac). Jacob said "the scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet". The dominant, brightest star in Leo is Regulus The Arabic word regel means 'foot', and answers identically with Hebrew's regel and the Aramaic regla. Regulus is known, and was known in all ancient civilizations as the king star. This schematic, blueprint, of the coming Christ, was known from ancient times. Man was without excuse. He could read God's plan of redemption in the heavens. Who were the wise men, magi? Matt 2:1 tells us quite a bit. The wise men (magoi in Greek; mgushe in Aramaic) refers to a religous group called Magi or Magians in the east, especially in Persia. Historical documents put these people in Persia and Media before Zoroaster, who lived about 600 BC. (I do not use BCE.) Originally into a style of nature worship, under Zoroaster these Magi became the priests of of Zoroastrianism. When Zoroaster died, some returned to nature worship, but some remained true to what Zoroaster taught. (The nature worshipping western Magi were the ones who developed sun worship, astrology, sorcery, magic, etc., and flooded the Roman empire about 100 years after the birth of Christ). The eastern Magi stayed true to Zoroaster, believing in one supreme God who only did good, a spiritual adversary who promoted evil, a coming redeemer to save man, forbidding and punishing idol worship, angels and devils (with the ultimate triumph of good over evil via the redeemer). They had a very strict code of moral behavior and ethics. These are the Magi, wise men, who came 'from the east'. Not from the western magi branch. Even to this day, their knowledge of religion and astronomy is world renowned. When Daniel was written, 5:11 shows that Daniel was the master of the Magi. When the Persians took over Babylon (5:31), Daniel retained his high standing (6:3). These Magi, instructed by Daniel (and perhaps others) learned the truth of what the stars signified. The knowledge, passed down from Jacob and his progeny, found fertile ground in the minds and hearts of a people far from Judea. Even Suetonius, the Roman historian, makes mention of the world being given to someone who should go forth from Judaea. Next we will begin to look at 'his star', the focal point that brought wise men hundreds of miles to pay homage to a king they knew was coming for 500 plus years, the redeemer of mankind, the king of the Judeans! This is one area where explanatory words and definitions will be used. I am in no way, shape, or form impuning the accuracy of the scriptures. However, at times explanations are needed, especially where cultures and sciences are concerned. The wise men and 'his star'. God records what is commonly referred to as the star of Bethlehem, 'his star'. The wise men's term is 'his star', not the star of anything or anyone else. All such terms, except for 'his star', are without scriptural foundation. This is how the wise men knew the king of the Judeans was born in Judaea. (The word 'Jew' and it's various derivatives were not in any English Bible until the 1700's. I use the word 'Judean' for a few reasons. Firstly, it is accurate. Second, in our venacular Jew is usually used of any person of Jacob's (Israel's) lineage, whereas the scripture is very clear that the Christ would come to sit on David's throne from the tribe of Judah. Thirdly, to use the word Judean keeps it straight as to why the magi came to the area of the tribe of Judah looking for the Prince Of Peace, rather than to the area occupied by any other tribe of Israel.) Matt 2:1-2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews (Judeans)? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. The definition of the word 'when' in verse 1 should be, as will be seen as we progress, be Webster's 1833 definition number 4, 'after'. The wise men, the magi, were from the east, the eastern Magi, the ones who stayed faithful to what they had been taught. They went to Jerusalem looking for the new king in the place where one would expect to find him. The fact that they had to ask where should tell us that there was not a shining light on Jesus. They said "we have seen his star in the east". Again, since they were coming 'from the east', if this was just seeing his star 'in the east', they would have travelled farther east, not south and west. This should have arrested our attention. The term 'in the east' is an astronomical term, and refers to the rising of a star in the eastern sky shortly before sunrise. (There is also some additional astronomical and Greek word-forms involved here, but they are generally not required for understanding). Literally it means 'in the rising'. While in their home country (we have seen is past tense), the Magi saw a star, (remember, stars refers to all heavenly bodies which includes planets, excepting the sun and moon), rising shortly before dawn in the eastern sky. This was not just an average, mere, or any star. Just as this "King of the Judeans" was not an average, mere, or any man, neither was "his star". This star had to convey, communicate, that the King of the Judeans was born. In Matthew 2:9, 'his star' is again referred to. "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was." Here, his star is called the star, it's identification with him being set in verse 2. This is the second, distinct, recorded appearance in God's Word of the same star. Again here, the words 'in the east' mean 'in the rising'.. We will examine the remainder of this verse, and it's astronomical terms a little later, but now let us date 'his star'. 'His star' being dated. To date 'his star', the student of the Bible must narrow the time frame into which this astronomical event occurred. In order to do this, we look for a frame of reference. herod the Great provides that. When Jesus was born, Herod was alive and ruling in Judea. Josephus recorded Herod's death happened shortly after a lunar eclipse. Literally all scholars agree that Herod died between 7 and 1 BC. There were 4 lunar eclipses viewable in the Judean area between these dates.Note also the date of the Passover. Mar 23, 5 BC, (total eclipse) (Passover was on the same date) Sep 15, 5 BC (total eclipse) (Passover was 6 months later) Mar 13, 4 BC (partial eclipse) (Passover was on April 11th) Jan 9, 1 BC (total eclipse) (Passover was on April 8th) Josephus records an entire series of events which occurred between the eclipse and Passover, in the year which Herod died. Very conservative estimates of the days required for these items (see Antiquities of the Jews, 17.6.5 for a complete list) to have occurred is 82 days. The estimates for the events between the eclipse and Herod's death is 42 days, and between Herod's death and Passover is 40 days. Obviously, The Mar 23, 5 BC cannot be the eclipse, since Passover was on the same day as Passover. The Mar 13, 4 BC eclipse only leaves 28 days, rather than the minimum of 40. The Sep 15, 5 BC lunar eclipse has two major difficulties: Josephus says 1) that the king who replaced Herod, Archelaus, HASTED to sail for Rome as Passover was approaching. If there were 5-6 months between Herod's death and Passover, how can it be said he HASTED? 2) Herod remained in Jericho until his death. Herod was very ill, and Jericho's late summer heat - being intense desert heat - would have made Herod even more uncomfortable. In winter, Jericho would be nice and comfortable. The Jan 9, 1 BC allows for the 82 days (there being 3 months between the eclipse and Passover). It also is quite adequate to accomodate the scholars breakdown of 40 and 42 days. This date would make sense for a comfortable place (Jericho) for Herod to be during the winter months. Lastly, this date is tight enough for Archelaus to hate to Rome before Passover. The vast majority of early church fathers and sources date Jesus' birth in 3 BC, and NO church fathers date the birth before 4 BC, while a hand full date the birth date it in 3-2 BC. Having placed Herod's death in early 1 BC, astronomical items between 4 BC and 1 BC can now be cosidered for dating 'his star'. Remember, Herod was alive when Jesus was born and still alive when the Magi arrived, NO early church father dates the birth before 4 BC. We will next look at all notable celestial events which occurred between 7 BC and 1 BC. We are looking at the major celestial events observable in the Middle East, so as to look at possibilities for 'his star'. Because Matthew 2 refers to two appearances of the same star, comets and novas are not possibilities. They would be appearances of totally different stars at different times. Because the term is in the singular of 'star', this could not be a conjunction of planets. A planetary conjunction requires more than 1, and the word 'star' is only one. A planet seems the most likely candidate for 'his star'. It should be recalled that in ancient times, all heavenly bodies were considered stars. Planets were referred to as wandering stars (planetes). Since God gave the original names to the stars, and their meaning, much error has crept into and infiltrated the Godly design and purpose. Stars are not to be used to foretell the future in any way. (I know I am preaching to the choir here, but Christians need to be careful not to get sucked into the mire of the world.) That being said, there has been, from antiquity, attributes of certain bodies. Beginning closest to the sun, Mercury has been given that of the messenger god. (Acts 14:12). Gabriel was the messenger to, among others, Elizabeth and Mary. Venus is known as the morning star. (See Rev 22:16, where Jesus Christ is associated with the bright and morning star). Mars has long been associated with war and battles, something Michael has the job to do (Daniel 12:1, Revelation 12:7). Jupiter (Hebrew ssedeq) means 'rightousness', and is associated with rulership, royalty, and the king who rulers over all. (see Jer 23:5 and 6; 33:15 and 16). Saturn's associations are cloudier than all others. Among other things, Saturn is associated with evil, death, weeping, crying, hindrance, grief, darkness, and destruction. These attributes most closely resemble the fallen angel, Satan. If anyone has further information on these, I would appreciate it. Jupiter. "His Star"? Jupiter is the largest planet in our solar system. It si called 'the king planet'. Its' Hebrew name means 'rightousness'. Jupiter appears in the sky every night. What keyed the Magi then, not just to a king being born, but to a Judean king being born? Jupiter was in 6 conjunctions from within about 1 year, all of them in the constellation Leo. Aug 12 3 BC - Jupiter (royalty and kingship) and Venus (the bright and morning star) at 5:00 AM (in the rising) in Leo (the sign of the lion, associated with Judah) Sep 14 3 BC - Jupiter (royalty and kingship) and Regulus (king star, rulership, dominion, the heart of the lion) at 4:00 AM in Leo (the lion of Judah) Feb 17 2 BC - Jupiter (royalty and kingship) and Regulus (king star, rulership, dominion, the heart of the lion) at 4:30 AM in Leo (the lion of Judah) May 8 2 BC - Jupiter (royalty and kingship) and Regulus (king star, rulership, dominion, the heart of the lion) at 11:00 PM in Leo (the lion of Judah) Jun 17 2 BC - Jupiter (royalty and kingship) and Venus (the bright and morning star) at 9:30 PM in Leo (the lion of Judah) Aug 27 2 BC - Jupiter (royalty and kingship), Mercury (the messenger), Mars (the warrior) and Venus (the bright and morning star) at 5:00 AM amass in Leo (the lion of Judah) Next we will see, from the word of God, the date and time of Christ's birth. Before we get to the date and time of Jesus' birth, there are a few details to make note of: 1) Many more details may be examined as to Cyrenius (Quininius), the marital status of Joseph and Mary, the triple conjunction in 7 BC, the massing of planets in 6 BC, the 'virgin' birth, Herod's murder of children 2 yrs and younger, the roots of Dec 25th, the courses of Abia, etc., all which exactly fit with what has been shared here. 2) There are many sources which have worked the same material before me. I have studied it, worked it, challenged it, and found it to ring true, time and again. 3) For the record, only holy communion is commanded to be observed in the church, as far as special 'occasions' go. For the church of the body, there is no command to observe the birth of Jesus, Pentecost, resurrection day, or the multitude of observances seeming to be prevalent in religious institutions. I am not advocating a change to the calendar. 4) At the very beginning of this study, I mis-spoke the time when Jesus was born. I should have checked my notes and papers. The time which will be following is the correct time. I apologize. 5) The information shared in all this should be used to edify the body. It should never be used to hurt or embarass. Okay, that is it. Let's move on. A short summary in needed, (and to tie up some details, which I said I would share later) at this point. The Magi saw God's communication of His son's birth, the long anticipated redeemer, in the heavens. In addition to the conjunctions on Aug 12 and Sep 14, 3 BC, these ancient astronomers would have seen the retrograde motion of Jupiter on Nov 29, 3 BC. The next conjunction on Feb 17, 2 BC was followed with Jupiter again going into retrograde on Mar 29. (Retrograde motion is when a planet appears, from the earth, to change the direction in which it is moving. In ancient times, astronomers paid great attention to such things.) Following these retrograde motions, the Magi then saw another conjunction on May 8, then again on June 17, 2 BC. Finally, on Aug 27, 2 BC there was the massing of planets, prompting the Magi to head for Judea, the capital being Jerusalem. Leaving Jerusalem, the Magi saw 'his star' (Jupiter), that it 'went before them, till it came and stood' over the town of Bethlehem. How could this possibly be? As Jupiter, the only planet common to all the celestial events they had witnessed, the king planet, always in Leo the lion during these amazing events, moved through the sky on its' nightly east to west course, it would reach the meridian, or topmost point (looking due south when north of the equator) and stand there for what appears to be a long time. This is the same thing the sun does at high noon. Approaching Bethlehem from Jerusalem (due south), Jupiter went before them (they saw it rising to it's meridian) and stood over Bethlehem, where the child was. Only between Dec 4, 2 BC and Jan 16, 1 BC could this occur, for after that Jan 16th, Herod was in Callirrhoe, and before that time Jupiter was not in this position over Bethlehem. Remember, the shepherds had 'made known abroad' the birth, and 'all that heard it wondered'. Jesus birth, and who he was, were common knowledge in Bethlehem and the surrounding area. The Magi had but to ask virtually anyone. The Magi then came to the house (Matt 2:11 - not manger or inn or stable, but house) and saw the young child (not babe. Two totally different Greek words with different meanings). God's foreknowledge and planning is amazing! David had to come from Bethlehem, and Bethlehem had to be geographically where it was in relation to Jerusalem, as Jerusalem had to be in Judea, exactly where it was. The heavens, set up for signs back in Genesis 1 had to be all pre-planned for God's announcement. The captivity had to happen so Daniel could teach the Magi . The Magi after Zoroaster had to stay faithful, looking for God's Word in the stars, so they could see God's living Word. The Magi brought gifts, which may have financed the hasty departure of Joseph and his family into Egypt. On and on it goes. Just absolutely the precision and foreknowledge of God and His Word, whether written on paper, in the stars, or in the flesh!! Now onto the time, date, and day. Herod's death, occuring shortly after Jan 9, 1 BC, gives a time frame within which to work. The birth of Jesus had to be while Herod was alive, because the Bible says so in both Matthew and Luke. As Matt 2:16 records, Herod had the children killed who were 2 years old and under, "according to the time he had diligently inquired of the wise men", putting the birth in 3 BC. Historical, astronomical, and Biblical evidence point to this year. Before we proceed, let us side track a little (maybe a lot, sorry again) to Bible prophesy. Much has been made of this subject in certain Christian circles, but for the most part it is unknown that all of the Bible is prohesy. Most worldly wisdom says directly, or insinuates, that prophesy is fore-telling the future. This is but one aspect of it. Abraham, though he fore-told nothing which is recorded, is called a prophet (Gen 20:7). This fact alone should make a serious student question what a prophet is. Since this is the first usage of the word 'prophet' in scriptures, how God defines it is the primary definition which should be used, unless He changes it. II Peter 1:20-21 need to be considered, as prophesy is linked to all scripture. The words "old time" literally means "any time". Not just the OT, but also the NT. It is not the time or place to go into a detailed study of prophet or prohesy, but for now let me say this: Prophesy may tell past, present, and future events. We must not limit our thinking to mans' definition of prophesy, but go with what is Biblical and based in the sound doctrine of scripture. That being said, the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, and Jesus Christ sent by his angel to John (Rev 1:1. This is not, according to verse 1, the'Revelation of St. John). Verse 1 also states Jesus Christ sent this revelation and signified it. The word for 'signified' is akin to the word 'sign' in the Bible, which answers directly to the word 'signs' in Genesis 1:14. God defined what the stars were for in Genesis, and nothing changed all the way through Revelation. One of the things the stars (heavenly bodies) were for is signs. Not as in astrology. Gods' Word, written in the heavens. In Rev 12:1-5 we have a series of astronomical terms: great wonder in heaven, clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, crown of 12 stars, another wonder in heaven, and stars of heaven. So often sincere, well-intentioned believers make too much of this book (and others) of the Bible because they fail to understand prophesy. Rather than looking at it as fore-telling future events (which it may also be doing, but until it happens we don't know that), let's look at it as telling past events. The entire chapter does tell past and future events, but we are not doing a study of the book of Revelations. From verse 5 it should be obvious that this is speaking of Jesus Christ. With that context, let us continue. The word 'wonder' in verse 1 is a very close relative to 'signified' in Rev 1:1. In Greek secular writings, a usage of this word is in reference to the signs of the zodiac. God's word says this great wonder appeared in heaven. The sign then is specified as a woman. There is only one woman in the zodiac which would fit with this, and that is Virgo, the Virgin. Scripture then says she is 'clothed with the sun', an astronomical term that happens for 21 days each year as the sun travels through its course between the neck and legs of Virgo. In 3 BC, this occured from Aug 27th - Sep 15th. Further, the Bible states that the moon was 'under her feet', an astronomical event which is the time when the moon appears to be under her feet. This configuration, when the costellation Virgo would be clothed with the sun and the moon would be under her feet, ocurred in 3 BC, as viewable in Palestine, on only 1 day, Sep 11th, a Wednesday. On that day, sunset was at 6:18 PM (when a new day - Tishri 1, to be exact - began in Biblical reckoning), and moonset was at 7:39 PM. During this 81 minute period, Jesus the Christ was born and he took his first breath of life. Verse 2 describes the woman in labor. Verses 3-4 tell of past events also, Satan's fall from heaven and his plan to kill the child immediately upon the birth. Verse 4-5 show the woman's labor completed and the child delivered. Verse 5 also show his ascension to God's throne. On the same night (night begins at sunset), shepherds received the announcement from the angels saying (not singing) concerning the child, and hasted to see the baby swaddled. Also, in the pre-dawn hours on that same day (sunset, 11 Sep to sunset, 12 Sep, 3 BC), Jupiter (the king planet) and Regulus (the king star), could be seen approaching conjunction in Leo (the sign of Judah) from whom the lawgiver (Gen 49:10) would come. The trumpets throughout all Judea would be blowing (a whole different study in itself) as Tishri 1 is the beginning of the new year, the Feast of Trumpets. God had it all planned out. Every detail. Only a handful of meek, humble shepherds were told verbally, but God announced it with a heavenly 'light show' and trumpets. The Magi, Gentiles, could see the Word written in the stars coming to pass, and are the only people God's Word records who specifically came to pay homage to the promised seed of the woman. God's timetable is impeccable. Closing notes. The age of grace, dispensation, administration, in which we live is not written in the stars. God kept it hidden from everyone, including Jesus (just as He kept the 'when' of Jesus return from Jesus) until the great mystery was revealed to Paul. So for anyone, Christian or non-Christian, to try to tell the future from the stars is foolish. Only those things written in the Word are for us today. The woman (Virgo) clothed with the 12 stars is the key to understanding the zodiac. It is where the zodiac begins. The Lion (Leo) is where it ends. The Great Sphinx of Egypt is an example of how this truth was passed down for thousands of years, but alas, people then, just as now, for the most part reject God's word, regardless of the benefits or consequences.
  10. Well done! This presents an interesting study to bear out the information presented. Thanks!
  11. In fact, it creates more financial problems. The amount of money it takes to treat those negatively impacted by this social disease just puts us further and further into debt. What's worse is that the disease cannot be treated because those in power are the carcinogens responsible for the spread. I sent this article out to some friends and family and one came back with: My response was as follows: I agree. My thoughts are also that if a person does not agree with gambling and does not gamble then he/she should not have to pay for the negative impact this vice has on society. The article places this at about $274 per adult annually. Now not every adult gambles so let’s compensate for that and raise the figure to $500 per adult that gambles. A good idea would be to have all those that gamble have to buy an annual license (like a hunting license) that gives them the ability to gamble as they see fit for one year. The cost of that license would be $500. No license – no gamble. That way, you get to gamble, and I don’t have to pay for the social ills that gambling brings upon America. That would be fair. Me having to pay for the social ills of a vice in which I do not participate is not fair. The question that arises though is why are so many people willing to sell out there fellow man just so they can have a little fun? 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Timothy 6:9-10 I am awaiting her response.
  12. http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/07/22/the-high-price-of-americas-gambling-addiction/ As state legislators aggressively pursue legalizing gambling to bring in revenue for their states they are doing it at the cost of the social well being of their citizens; and the sad fact is that they know it. When does the cost become too high?
  13. Don't let me stop you...I'm trackin'!
  14. I can see your logic here, but Christ is the King of ALL Israel, hence King of the "Jews" not just Judea. To translate otherwise would necessitate doing that eveywhere and I don't think that is the context in places such as Matthew 15, Luke 23, or John 19. I don't see this as an issue really. The use of the word when can easily be taken as when he was born, the wise men started making their way to Jerusalem. It doesn't have to mean that they were their at that time. Semantics. So far I'm liking the study...Press On!
  15. No worries. Coming from the east they are both western terms to me. We don't have many ponies or cowboys in these parts! :)
  16. Good start. Looking forward to more. I did, however, mean "pony up"" transitive verb: to pay (money) especially in settlement of an account Synonyms: ante up, balance, meet, pay off, pay, recompense, settle origin unknown First Known Use: 1824
  17. OK Trell! In the words of Wendy's spokeperson, Clara Peller: "Where's the beef?! ...or, as you are from Wyoming maybe it would be better if I said it was time to "pony up" pardner! :makmiday:
  18. The subject of KJV only has been batted around here ad nauseam with little to no resolution...ever. Let us suffice it to say that all reading this thread are mature enough to accept the use of another version's text as long as it is not taken out of context and lines up with the underlying language as found in Strong's. Hopefully there are others out there that can add their knowledge of grammatical issues that may be of import if that becomes an issue. Now, can we get back on topic and find out how we can possibly pinpoint the birth of Christ down to an 1/2 hour in 3 B.C.? Let us give this an honest study and perhaps we can all learn something and gain a better understanding of our Lord.
  19. You are correct...I used the word exalted. I was paraphrasing a verse not directly in front of me while trying to get my thoughts down in short order. I was not trying to make God's word "more living and real in my understanding" as that is not really possible or necessary in my mind. I do not know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic and do not purport to be any type of translator. I have also never opened the ESV to my recollection. To pass my paraphase off as in keeping with the honest work the translators of the KJV is like comparing apples to a side of beef. In my humble opinion, if God promises to keep and preserve His word from generation to generation (and He does): Ps 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. I have to believe it would be kept and preserved available for our use, else why else bother. If a god only kept and preserved his word "in the originals" then I would have to say that god is not a god capable of much, because we do not even have any of the originals kept or preserved. If it is only kept with God, then it really does not do us much good because we do not have access to it. All this does not seem likely from a God that gives so much power and emphasis to His word. I believe that God has kept His inspired word pure and completely intact in the KJV. I believe He is capable of keeping His word, in every sense. I have done some study on the translation of the KJV and the men behind it and believe it was a well designed process done by men far above their peers then and now. I also believe that God was behind the whole translation. I also believe the "per"versions that have come out of Alexandria and via anything that has Westcott and Hort in its lineage are exactly that...perversions. Having said that, I have more respect for a person that holds firm to the NIV as the authoritative word of God than for someone that hopscotches from version to version to find that one translation of a verse that suits his/her purpose best. I have heard and read all the arguments before of those that believe we don't have the originals and copies "even 'honest' ones" have introduced errors so that there really is no truly correct Bible out there. What I end up discovering is that these claims are initially made by people who are not comfortable with what God said and/or did, and desire to put their own spin on it. For instance, Origen did not believe in the deity of Christ, which is clear in his pervesion of the scriptures. This is then perpetuated by those that desire to follow them down that path of pervesion. I have asked naysayers to pinpoint specific verses that are in error and explain how they know, but they can't. Why? Because they don't have the 'originals' either and so it is all subjective. I believe the KJV is God's inspired word...period.
  20. I believe that God, Jesus and the Word are one (John 1:1; 1:14). I believe that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow: Phil. 2:9-10. I also believe that God has exalted His Word even above all His name: Psalm 138:2. I also believe that God has promised to preserve His word for ALL generations: Psalm 12:6-7. I do not believe God can lie: Titus 1:2, and so I believe all the above is true and that God has preserved His word even to this generation. I believe He chose to do this with the KJV. The only problems I see in this version are those derived through my own lack of understanding. Until someone can prove to me otherwise on the afore mentioned, I believe those that say there are problems with the KJV believe so because they believe their own personal interpretation (and what they wish to believe as true) is better than what God has provided. To say that God's word is perfect as "originally given" and all else is open to human error is laughable not only because it is obvious that God's originals were perfect, but also because no one has seen God's originals for well over 1,000 years and more and this leaves a huge opening for people to provide their own interpretation to anything put before them. It is interesting to note that Moses smashed the "original" commandments of God at Mount Sinai (Exodus 32). Was the second copy he brought down "subject to problems"? We also read in Jeremiah 36 that the "original" words of God were destroyed by the King. Was the second copy that Jeremiah wrote "subject to problems"? Aside from that second sentence of your above post, I am amicable with your format as long as it is in accordance with the KJV.
  21. I ask because it is statements like your first above that I find typically lead to a lot of unsupported and mis-information because people take others at their word instead of verifying the sources. I like to verify the information. Like Ronald Reagan once said..."Trust, but verify".
  22. Could you share some of this evidence?
  23. http://web.gbtv.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=20177695 This is a good video to watch all the way through. While a bit ecumenical, we need to focus on the substance of what could be coming to a church near you (perhaps even yours). The powers of this world are doing their best to eliminate the moral compass provided by "Christianity" (I use a broad brush). Atheists may think this a good thing, but I cannot think of a single atheistic nation that brought peace and prosperity to the general public. The ones that come to my mind were/are tyrannical and the people live(d) in fear.
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