Salyan

1. Hard to get out of the carpet
2. Why have it? Is someone that addicted they can’t bear to be without it for an hour? Burden of proof for having it should be on those wanting to bring it in (I say that as someone who sometimes is still drinking my first coffee to wake up as I arrive at church - but I finish it outside the sanctuary or leave it).

1. Hard to get out of the carpet
2. Why have it? Is someone that addicted they can’t bear to be without it for an hour? Burden of proof for having it should be on those wanting to bring it in (I say that as someone who sometimes is still drinking my first coffee to wake up as I arrive at church - but I finish it outside the sanctuary or leave it).

Preachers have authority to remind people of the principles of God's Word. If a politician/political leaning is blatantly defying God's ways, then there is a place for pastors to remind people of truth and to remind them to pay attention to what their politicians support. They can share what they've learned re politics, what their personal choice is and why, but shouldn't outright tell people who to vote for, IMO. 

Health (and what goes/doesn't go) into our bodies is the responsible of the individual, and occasionally the family (for children).  Except where sin is involved, it is not the place or responsibility of the church to have an opinion therein. 

That I would agree with. Convention churches can probably offer better health & retirement plans due to the larger number of participants, but in our independent churches, that's often not feasible. 

I would be curious what the original salaries were. Our pastor emeritus had a very low salary, with rare increases. When his son took over, he had a mortgage to consider that required us starting him off at a higher salary. (Not an egregious mortgage, very appropriate and even insufficient for the size of his family).  Some salary increases could just be bringing pastors up to a living wage. A lot of churches don't necessarily provide benefits or retirement packages, so salaries (in the corporate world) would generally be larger to account for self-payment of those.
That study also says the scope of the study grew over the years. I wonder if they adjusted the 1996 salary study with numbers from the 23 additional conventions that participated this year? Otherwise you could be comparing apples to oranges with different states/costs of living/etc. 

That’s funny… I thought God decided that. 

TGL, an admin just told you to cool it with the GIFs…. Probably best not to blow that off. 
FWIW, I don’t agree with you, TGL.? I dislike distracting GIFs. The members joining us from the country or areas with poor Internet, it can also make it really hard for them to access the site, cause it take so long for those to load on dial up. 

Each province is a little different, but generally speaking, no.

BC has forbidden non-essential travel between health regions. There are check stops set up on some major highways in the south (it's very mountainous, so these highways really are the only way through) where police are stopping people. It sounds like claiming essential travel gets you through okay, but I wouldn't want to drive an RV. BC churches are meeting outside only, last I remember.

Alberta is usually the Texas of Canada, and has a 'conservative' government, so the fact we're seeing the restrictions we are is ridiculous. We're actually getting more closed down, and the government keeps changing the  goalposts for reopening. They claim that if 75% get vaccinated, they'll 'start' to reopen. We have 48% half vaccinated (don't ask me my opinion on this!) and 3.5% fully vaccinated. Vaccination status is beginning to affect access to places like seniors' homes.  We are still at 15 people allowed for church services, 15% capacity in retail, and some types of small businesses/gyms/etc. shut down.  Schools flip-flop between online and in-person learning - always with masks. Restaurants can have take out only. 8 weeks ago, restaurants were open for dine in service - then they shut that down but allowed patios. Many restaurants spent thousands of dollars (after a year with multiple months of closures) to put in patios - then the government closed them down for pick up services only. This doesn't work in highly rural areas, where one can drive 30-45 minutes from the restaurant to their home. Many restaurants and places dependent on tourist income are already closed for good - but Costcos and Walmarts with active outbreaks can stay open. (For the record, Alberta is running PCR tests at such a high number of cycles that our 'positive' cases are likely well over 50% false positives.)  Funerals & weddings are allowed 15 - no reception, and last week, outside social gathering sizes were reduced from 10 to 5. Cities are worse - Edmonton has its own private masking requirements that require people visiting the zoo OUTSIDE to wear masks. We are getting more closed down, not less. Last week, the government removed many of the masking exemptions, and required doctor's notes for anyone wishing exemption (the list of approved reasons for mask exemption is very small). The strong conservative feeling is that they are trying to force the small businesses to close. The liberal government is beginning to discuss a Universal Basic Income. 

There was an attempt by bureaucrats in the Parks Department to implement drone use to monitor back-country camping during long weekends - to make sure people aren't gathering in groups that are too large. That was probably not approved by the appropriate Minister, and it was rescinded very quickly after it was found out by the media (for once, even the very liberal media, which usually functions as a propaganda arm of the government, was a bit shocked).

The injunction Pr. Tim was arrested under was verbally changed the week before his arrest to exclude the clause under which he was arrested. Our health service department (AHS) is fighting hard to say that since the change wasn't yet documented, it should still be valid. It took a while to get him out (he was released yesterday), since the release conditions he was originally offered were not something he could agree to in good conscience (haven't heard what they were, but are probably similar to what Pr. Coates of GraceLife were given - he spent 5 or 6 weeks in jail before realistic conditions were negotiated). Their church building has been ordered closed by AHS. They will likely be looking for another place to meet (if they go back, the locks will be changed on the building, and Pr. Tim & possibly their other elder will be rearrested). I would like to know how unlelected health services became so powerful! The fear of death in the world must truly be immense.

This is a political response, not a spiritual one, but I wish the churches in this province would see the importance of publicly acknowledging their religious requirement to meet corporately, and to sing. So many think they must obey the government, but don't seem to see the long-term implications - so they are following all restrictions. Many have not met in-person or fully corporately for a year (this is broad-brushing across all denominations, not specific to IFB). We are the only IFB church in our circles to be publicly fully open... I know a couple more at least that are meeting corporately in secret or inconspicuously, and others fully follow the restrictions.  If more stood up, it would make it difficult for the government to devote the amount of resources to them all that are currently being used to target the few. Of those that see the importance for corporate worship, the number of underground churches is growing. Think about that. Canada has underground churches.

And pray for our peace in this time. I know we don't compare to other regions of the world, and we are not really being specifically targeted for persecution (ask any gym or restaurant!), but in a country that still claims freedom of religion, assembly and association, it's really hard to reconcile.

That was a VERY long response - sorry! I guess I had a lot to say.   

Each province is a little different, but generally speaking, no.

BC has forbidden non-essential travel between health regions. There are check stops set up on some major highways in the south (it's very mountainous, so these highways really are the only way through) where police are stopping people. It sounds like claiming essential travel gets you through okay, but I wouldn't want to drive an RV. BC churches are meeting outside only, last I remember.

Alberta is usually the Texas of Canada, and has a 'conservative' government, so the fact we're seeing the restrictions we are is ridiculous. We're actually getting more closed down, and the government keeps changing the  goalposts for reopening. They claim that if 75% get vaccinated, they'll 'start' to reopen. We have 48% half vaccinated (don't ask me my opinion on this!) and 3.5% fully vaccinated. Vaccination status is beginning to affect access to places like seniors' homes.  We are still at 15 people allowed for church services, 15% capacity in retail, and some types of small businesses/gyms/etc. shut down.  Schools flip-flop between online and in-person learning - always with masks. Restaurants can have take out only. 8 weeks ago, restaurants were open for dine in service - then they shut that down but allowed patios. Many restaurants spent thousands of dollars (after a year with multiple months of closures) to put in patios - then the government closed them down for pick up services only. This doesn't work in highly rural areas, where one can drive 30-45 minutes from the restaurant to their home. Many restaurants and places dependent on tourist income are already closed for good - but Costcos and Walmarts with active outbreaks can stay open. (For the record, Alberta is running PCR tests at such a high number of cycles that our 'positive' cases are likely well over 50% false positives.)  Funerals & weddings are allowed 15 - no reception, and last week, outside social gathering sizes were reduced from 10 to 5. Cities are worse - Edmonton has its own private masking requirements that require people visiting the zoo OUTSIDE to wear masks. We are getting more closed down, not less. Last week, the government removed many of the masking exemptions, and required doctor's notes for anyone wishing exemption (the list of approved reasons for mask exemption is very small). The strong conservative feeling is that they are trying to force the small businesses to close. The liberal government is beginning to discuss a Universal Basic Income. 

There was an attempt by bureaucrats in the Parks Department to implement drone use to monitor back-country camping during long weekends - to make sure people aren't gathering in groups that are too large. That was probably not approved by the appropriate Minister, and it was rescinded very quickly after it was found out by the media (for once, even the very liberal media, which usually functions as a propaganda arm of the government, was a bit shocked).

The injunction Pr. Tim was arrested under was verbally changed the week before his arrest to exclude the clause under which he was arrested. Our health service department (AHS) is fighting hard to say that since the change wasn't yet documented, it should still be valid. It took a while to get him out (he was released yesterday), since the release conditions he was originally offered were not something he could agree to in good conscience (haven't heard what they were, but are probably similar to what Pr. Coates of GraceLife were given - he spent 5 or 6 weeks in jail before realistic conditions were negotiated). Their church building has been ordered closed by AHS. They will likely be looking for another place to meet (if they go back, the locks will be changed on the building, and Pr. Tim & possibly their other elder will be rearrested). I would like to know how unlelected health services became so powerful! The fear of death in the world must truly be immense.

This is a political response, not a spiritual one, but I wish the churches in this province would see the importance of publicly acknowledging their religious requirement to meet corporately, and to sing. So many think they must obey the government, but don't seem to see the long-term implications - so they are following all restrictions. Many have not met in-person or fully corporately for a year (this is broad-brushing across all denominations, not specific to IFB). We are the only IFB church in our circles to be publicly fully open... I know a couple more at least that are meeting corporately in secret or inconspicuously, and others fully follow the restrictions.  If more stood up, it would make it difficult for the government to devote the amount of resources to them all that are currently being used to target the few. Of those that see the importance for corporate worship, the number of underground churches is growing. Think about that. Canada has underground churches.

And pray for our peace in this time. I know we don't compare to other regions of the world, and we are not really being specifically targeted for persecution (ask any gym or restaurant!), but in a country that still claims freedom of religion, assembly and association, it's really hard to reconcile.

That was a VERY long response - sorry! I guess I had a lot to say.   

https://www.newstbt.com/post/court-permits-government-to-avoid-producing-dr-hinshaw-s-evidence-on-lockdowns-at-may-3-trial?postId=6079d2664688760015642e8e
 
So if in 13 months, the government does not have shareable scientific evidence to support the lockdowns, then why are there lockdowns? Why are they locking a church? If they cannot support the restriction of Charter freedoms, their health orders are invalid. And yet they stand. I’m about ready to start a revolution right now...   
#verymad

This church is about 30 minutes from us. It is the church that had its pastor jailed for 5 weeks because he couldn’t agree to bail conditions that violated his conscience (ironically, the consequences for his charges would have merited only fines, not imprisonment). Basically, the church chose not to comply with the unscriptural demands of the health services to limit attendance to 15% capacity (which practically means no physical distancing), and they refuse to enforce masking (because it is a personal health decision). The last few weeks, they have had capacity crowds, with more listening from outside. The police came at dawn and put 3 layers of fencing around the building. Multiple RCMP officers and private security are on site 24 hours to keep anyone approaching the building.
Pray for them - and for us! My church is one of about 20 in Alberta that have (very publicly) stated they are open for all who want to attend - no capacity limits. There are more that think the same, but they’re staying under the radar so far (as we were doing for several months). Our church had 50 visitors on Easter Sunday because we were open (for context, our core group through Covid was 60-80). Some came from churches who wouldn’t let them in the doors without a mask, despite legitimate medical issues. Others are coming because they feel convicted by God to meet together together with his people again, and their churches are fully virtual. We have been reported twice by local snitches, once for our Easter Sunday morning service, and we imminently expect a visit from health inspectors and the RCMP.
It’s unreal, you know. Our pastor talked to us at Bible study about what steps we would be taking when (not if) police came to building. I can’t believe we actually had that conversation in Canada - in North America. As treasurer, I’ve taken steps to ensure continuity of the office operations should we be locked out of the building. Today I moved a batch of extra hymnals offsite so we’ll have them if we lose access. I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m scared every time I go to church on Sunday.
Churches are so split over this issue. Many churches believe GraceLife should be following the government, period. Others, like us, believe that God did not grant the government authority over how the church worships, and we furthermore feel that they have not proven the necessity of these rules that override our charter freedoms of religion, assembly, and association. Every time a Covid case comes to court in Alberta, the charges are dropped by the Crown as soon as they are requested to provide the burden of proof (to prove that the restrictions are warranted by circumstances significant that enough to override our Charter of Rights). Many  congregations are split over this issue. The funny thing is that many unbelievers are standing up in support of the churches for this. They see the larger implications of the government’s actions. Many who haven’t been in church for years say they will visit GraceLife in support!

Have to say that the Reformed churches are putting us to shame here. I don’t agree with their doctrine, but their belief in the sovereignty of God has them leading the charge in standing up against these tyrannies. 
If you want a good source to research more about this case, check out rebelnews.com. You should check out their video from the first protest at the Edmonton Remand Centre in support of Pr. Coates when he was first out in jail. Best. Protest. Ever. Speakers were basically  pastors giving five minute sermons, and we sang hymns. The group you hear a couple times on camera singing really well in harmony is actually our church group.  ?
 
Edited to add: this guy is a member of GraceLife. He’s been live-streaming a lot from site. https://m.facebook.com/Devin-Davis-101163168761777/

Thank you so much for the information. We'll be praying for you and all these churches in Canada. I cant imagine what it is like. So sad to see this stuff take place all over the world. Protesting in large groups acceptable...church meeting in large groups... illegal. 

This church is about 30 minutes from us. It is the church that had its pastor jailed for 5 weeks because he couldn’t agree to bail conditions that violated his conscience (ironically, the consequences for his charges would have merited only fines, not imprisonment). Basically, the church chose not to comply with the unscriptural demands of the health services to limit attendance to 15% capacity (which practically means no physical distancing), and they refuse to enforce masking (because it is a personal health decision). The last few weeks, they have had capacity crowds, with more listening from outside. The police came at dawn and put 3 layers of fencing around the building. Multiple RCMP officers and private security are on site 24 hours to keep anyone approaching the building.
Pray for them - and for us! My church is one of about 20 in Alberta that have (very publicly) stated they are open for all who want to attend - no capacity limits. There are more that think the same, but they’re staying under the radar so far (as we were doing for several months). Our church had 50 visitors on Easter Sunday because we were open (for context, our core group through Covid was 60-80). Some came from churches who wouldn’t let them in the doors without a mask, despite legitimate medical issues. Others are coming because they feel convicted by God to meet together together with his people again, and their churches are fully virtual. We have been reported twice by local snitches, once for our Easter Sunday morning service, and we imminently expect a visit from health inspectors and the RCMP.
It’s unreal, you know. Our pastor talked to us at Bible study about what steps we would be taking when (not if) police came to building. I can’t believe we actually had that conversation in Canada - in North America. As treasurer, I’ve taken steps to ensure continuity of the office operations should we be locked out of the building. Today I moved a batch of extra hymnals offsite so we’ll have them if we lose access. I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m scared every time I go to church on Sunday.
Churches are so split over this issue. Many churches believe GraceLife should be following the government, period. Others, like us, believe that God did not grant the government authority over how the church worships, and we furthermore feel that they have not proven the necessity of these rules that override our charter freedoms of religion, assembly, and association. Every time a Covid case comes to court in Alberta, the charges are dropped by the Crown as soon as they are requested to provide the burden of proof (to prove that the restrictions are warranted by circumstances significant that enough to override our Charter of Rights). Many  congregations are split over this issue. The funny thing is that many unbelievers are standing up in support of the churches for this. They see the larger implications of the government’s actions. Many who haven’t been in church for years say they will visit GraceLife in support!

Have to say that the Reformed churches are putting us to shame here. I don’t agree with their doctrine, but their belief in the sovereignty of God has them leading the charge in standing up against these tyrannies. 
If you want a good source to research more about this case, check out rebelnews.com. You should check out their video from the first protest at the Edmonton Remand Centre in support of Pr. Coates when he was first out in jail. Best. Protest. Ever. Speakers were basically  pastors giving five minute sermons, and we sang hymns. The group you hear a couple times on camera singing really well in harmony is actually our church group.  ?
 
Edited to add: this guy is a member of GraceLife. He’s been live-streaming a lot from site. https://m.facebook.com/Devin-Davis-101163168761777/

This church is about 30 minutes from us. It is the church that had its pastor jailed for 5 weeks because he couldn’t agree to bail conditions that violated his conscience (ironically, the consequences for his charges would have merited only fines, not imprisonment). Basically, the church chose not to comply with the unscriptural demands of the health services to limit attendance to 15% capacity (which practically means no physical distancing), and they refuse to enforce masking (because it is a personal health decision). The last few weeks, they have had capacity crowds, with more listening from outside. The police came at dawn and put 3 layers of fencing around the building. Multiple RCMP officers and private security are on site 24 hours to keep anyone approaching the building.
Pray for them - and for us! My church is one of about 20 in Alberta that have (very publicly) stated they are open for all who want to attend - no capacity limits. There are more that think the same, but they’re staying under the radar so far (as we were doing for several months). Our church had 50 visitors on Easter Sunday because we were open (for context, our core group through Covid was 60-80). Some came from churches who wouldn’t let them in the doors without a mask, despite legitimate medical issues. Others are coming because they feel convicted by God to meet together together with his people again, and their churches are fully virtual. We have been reported twice by local snitches, once for our Easter Sunday morning service, and we imminently expect a visit from health inspectors and the RCMP.
It’s unreal, you know. Our pastor talked to us at Bible study about what steps we would be taking when (not if) police came to building. I can’t believe we actually had that conversation in Canada - in North America. As treasurer, I’ve taken steps to ensure continuity of the office operations should we be locked out of the building. Today I moved a batch of extra hymnals offsite so we’ll have them if we lose access. I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m scared every time I go to church on Sunday.
Churches are so split over this issue. Many churches believe GraceLife should be following the government, period. Others, like us, believe that God did not grant the government authority over how the church worships, and we furthermore feel that they have not proven the necessity of these rules that override our charter freedoms of religion, assembly, and association. Every time a Covid case comes to court in Alberta, the charges are dropped by the Crown as soon as they are requested to provide the burden of proof (to prove that the restrictions are warranted by circumstances significant that enough to override our Charter of Rights). Many  congregations are split over this issue. The funny thing is that many unbelievers are standing up in support of the churches for this. They see the larger implications of the government’s actions. Many who haven’t been in church for years say they will visit GraceLife in support!

Have to say that the Reformed churches are putting us to shame here. I don’t agree with their doctrine, but their belief in the sovereignty of God has them leading the charge in standing up against these tyrannies. 
If you want a good source to research more about this case, check out rebelnews.com. You should check out their video from the first protest at the Edmonton Remand Centre in support of Pr. Coates when he was first out in jail. Best. Protest. Ever. Speakers were basically  pastors giving five minute sermons, and we sang hymns. The group you hear a couple times on camera singing really well in harmony is actually our church group.  ?
 
Edited to add: this guy is a member of GraceLife. He’s been live-streaming a lot from site. https://m.facebook.com/Devin-Davis-101163168761777/

The government was specifically designated by God "for the punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well." We could also extrapolate a responsibility for national security in that. Anything beyond that is out of scope.
1. Christians are told to support the poor and needy. (This is an individual responsibility, and not given to the government.)
2. "If a man does not work, neither shall he eat." (this implies that programs that give money to those who WON'T work, rather than CAN'T work, are in violation of God's principles).

I feel like conservative government aid programs, that focus on private charity and demanding responsibility on the part of the recipients, are a better representation of Biblical principles than socialist ones. 
 

Are you asking what values of governmental liberalism would I support?
Or are you asking what values of doctrinal liberalism would I support?
Or are you asking what values of Biblical liberality would I support?
Or are you asking what values of something "liberal" that I have not listed would I support?

The government was specifically designated by God "for the punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well." We could also extrapolate a responsibility for national security in that. Anything beyond that is out of scope.
1. Christians are told to support the poor and needy. (This is an individual responsibility, and not given to the government.)
2. "If a man does not work, neither shall he eat." (this implies that programs that give money to those who WON'T work, rather than CAN'T work, are in violation of God's principles).

I feel like conservative government aid programs, that focus on private charity and demanding responsibility on the part of the recipients, are a better representation of Biblical principles than socialist ones. 
 

The government was specifically designated by God "for the punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well." We could also extrapolate a responsibility for national security in that. Anything beyond that is out of scope.
1. Christians are told to support the poor and needy. (This is an individual responsibility, and not given to the government.)
2. "If a man does not work, neither shall he eat." (this implies that programs that give money to those who WON'T work, rather than CAN'T work, are in violation of God's principles).

I feel like conservative government aid programs, that focus on private charity and demanding responsibility on the part of the recipients, are a better representation of Biblical principles than socialist ones. 
 

The government was specifically designated by God "for the punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well." We could also extrapolate a responsibility for national security in that. Anything beyond that is out of scope.
1. Christians are told to support the poor and needy. (This is an individual responsibility, and not given to the government.)
2. "If a man does not work, neither shall he eat." (this implies that programs that give money to those who WON'T work, rather than CAN'T work, are in violation of God's principles).

I feel like conservative government aid programs, that focus on private charity and demanding responsibility on the part of the recipients, are a better representation of Biblical principles than socialist ones. 
 

You are correct.  Nothing in God's Word directly prohibits a government program from engaging in charitable giving unto the poor and needy, neither does anything in God's Word command the employment of such a government program.  As such, it would indeed be wrong for me to oppose a government program of charity (depending on how it was administered); just as it would be wrong for you to condemn me if I did not give through that government program of charity.  Thus IF governmental liberalism was simply a government program of charity, I would not express direct opposition against it (depending on how and to whom it was administered), any more than I express direct opposition against other charitable organizations.  Indeed, IF governmental liberalism was a government program to which we might WILLINGLY give of our material wealth, such that the government agency, having a larger distribution scope, would then distribute that freely given help unto those in genuine need, I would not oppose it so firmly and fiercely.  In fact, such a government program of charity would be structured upon the two foundational points of Biblical Liberality:
1.  The individual gives willingly out of a personal heart of compassion for the poor and needy.
2.  The individual gives liberally out of their own material possession to help the poor and needy.
HOWEVER, governmental liberalism is NOT structured simply as a government program of charity.  Governmental liberalism is structured as a FORCED system wherein the government FORCIBLY TAKES an individual's material wealth away through taxes, and then gives unto the "poor" that FORCIBLY TAKEN wealth, which is not actually the government's own material wealth, but was actually someone else's material wealth.  Even so, governmental liberalism does NOT fulfill either of the two foundational points of Biblical Liberality.  First, it is NOT structured for the individual to give willingly out of his or her personal heart of compassion, since it FORCIBLY TAKES through governmental mandate.  Furthermore, it is NOT structured for the individual to give out of his or her OWN wealth, since the government (the individual persons that make up the government) is not giving out of its own wealth, but is giving wealth that it has taken from others.
Thus I repeat yet again:
 _____________________________________________
Actually, I am aware that in the King James translation specifically, whenever the 2nd person pronouns "you" and "ye" are found, they are ALWAYS plural.  Even so, our Lord Jesus Christ was indeed speaking to a plural group of people in the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46.  However, as you yourself have recognized above, when our Lord Jesus Christ judges at the last judgment, He judges them personally according to their individual and personal behavior.  Thus the commendation and condemnation of Matthew 25:31-46 contextually retains its PERSONAL emphasis.  Furthermore, within this context in Matthew 25:40 our Lord Jesus Christ specifically defined the recipients of this giving as HIS OWN BRETHREN (which would either mean His Jewish brethren or His Christian brethren).  (Note: I myself believe that in this context we should view this as His Jewish brethren.)
________________________________________________
Indeed, individual people DO make up governments and institutions; and they most certainly should NOT "divorce God" from ANY part of their lives (although the great majority have done just that, for "there is no fear of God before their eyes").  (Note: Actually, in many ways the governmental liberalism of America is trying to governmentally compel and force genuine believers to "divorce God" from much of their public lives.)  However, when the people that make up the government give away wealth that is not their own, but is that which they have forcibly taken from others, they are NOT actually following God's Word, will, or way.  IF they were following God's Word, will, and way, they would be taking of their OWN wealth to give unto the poor; and they would be distributing the wealth of others that those others had willingly and freely entrusted to their administration.
(Note: Throughout the historical record the pursuits of governmental socialism in its various forms has been ANTI-GOD, ANTI-CHRIST, and ANTI-Biblical morality.)

I think we’re getting a bit off topic here, and the repentance reference will likely take it further off. Let’s keep this thread to the technology subject; if anyone would like to discuss repentance/doctrine or issues in churches, they are welcome to start new threads. 

Websites (or at least a Facebook page) are a requirement nowadays, I think. If I'm searching for a church to visit, I won't even consider any that I can't first look up their statement of faith and peruse their website.  But the website needs to look like it was updated within the last 15 years!  

Websites (or at least a Facebook page) are a requirement nowadays, I think. If I'm searching for a church to visit, I won't even consider any that I can't first look up their statement of faith and peruse their website.  But the website needs to look like it was updated within the last 15 years!  

Websites (or at least a Facebook page) are a requirement nowadays, I think. If I'm searching for a church to visit, I won't even consider any that I can't first look up their statement of faith and peruse their website.  But the website needs to look like it was updated within the last 15 years!  

Websites (or at least a Facebook page) are a requirement nowadays, I think. If I'm searching for a church to visit, I won't even consider any that I can't first look up their statement of faith and peruse their website.  But the website needs to look like it was updated within the last 15 years!