DaveW

Yes you. The other one is Chief Dave!

Well, I thought you said you didn't believe in giants???

Nah - of course I do.
The bible not only uses the word but also describes certain men as such.

However there is no indication that giants are anything other than tall men, and those in general appear to be around 9' tall when figures are suggested - like Goliath.
Og, judging by the size of his bed may have been a bit taller - say 10 or 11'.

But there is no suggestion in the bible that he was anything other than a man.

There are tribes in Africa for instance where the average height of the people is well over 6' - all of the adults grow to well above the normal average - but they are normal men.

Sure there are large hybrids:

You sir, are a goose!

( meant in the nicest way. )

Are you suggesting that the Giants in Numbers 13 are related to the Giants in Gen 6?

By the way Nephilim means giant - that's all, just giant......

The translators of the King James used the Septuagint. In the Septuigint, the Koine Greek word for Hebrew nephilim is gigantes, from which they got the English word giants.

So "large hybrids" is nowhere indicated in the text, but assumed by you?

Large maybe, but hybrid? No.

By the way I am not saying they were not angels - I don't think there is enough in the passage to be dogmatic.

There certainly is not a definitive statement like "large hybrids" inherent in the passage.

Hi Dave,

What do you think of King Og of Bashan?

Is this to me?

Whilst I don't see the relevance, it appears that he had a big bed (about 14' long).

He was a tall man among a kingdom of tall men.

I suppose you have read Genesis 5??

The bene ha 'elohim are introduced in Genesis 6.

There were nephilim in the earth in those days; and also after that, (as a result of)
when the bene ha' elohim came in unto the bath 'Adam,
and they bare children to them, [nephilim] Genesis 6:4 God says it, I believe it



Here are the Hebrew definitions for each name in Gen 5,

Adam = man

Seth means "appointed"

Enos means "mortal"

Cainan means "sorrow"

Mahalalel means "the blessed God"

Jared means "shall descend or come down"

Enoch "teaching"

Methusaleah "his death shall bring"

Lamech means "the dispairing"

Noah "rest and comfort"

Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah is the Gospel in proper names.

Strangely after all of that the Bible still says "Sons of God" and "daughters of men" but those phrases are not defined in and of themselves.

And might men, men of renown carries no inherent meaning of supernatural.
No, not even in the Hebrew.

There is absolutely no biblical reason to imply that they were large hybrids.

I was referring to the bracketed statement [large hybrids].

Where does this come from?

"
There were nephilim in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the bene ha'Elohim came in unto the bath 'Adam, and they bare children to them

the same became the nephilim mighty men which wereof old, men of renown. [large hybrids].   Genesis 5 is simply a geneology of Noah from Adam."

Where do you get this from? (source of the quote please).

Hybrids only happen within a kind.
You can hybrid different 'breeds' of dogs, different varieties of citrus, but you can not hybrid dogs with cats, nor oranges with apples.

In nature ( and even on the lab) the kind of hybrid you speak of is impossible.

My apologies - maybe the way you worded it, maybe the way I read it, but it appeared to me that you were saying they lived shorter lives than we do - that is why I questioned.

Are you saying that when the Bible says Gen 5:
 5  And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
It didn't mean that?

What sort of justification do you have for rejecting the plain statement of Scripture.

1

Sorry I went to bed. It was late here.

1

5

3

Sigh......
1

The last dragon killed by the English Knights was shown in an etching as being about the size of a small pony, four legged with scaley skin.
It was not reputed to be a fire breather and did not have wings.

The word dinosaur is a generic world for large reptile (actually means great lizard) and was only invented in the last 150 or so years - I can't remember when exactly.

The word dragon was used in a similar way to the dinosaur today - could in some cases mean a flyer, sometimes a fire breather, etc.
Even those into mythology games etc have different classes of dragons according to type, but a general classification of dragon.

Drawings of Bunyip by Australian aborigines bear an amazing likeness to a certain dinosaur.
They were reputed to have been seen into the 1800's

Evolution and long ages were around before Darwin too.
He just gets all the credit for it.

Still doesn't make it right......

1......

Even if they are not interchangeable, there is no indication of a gap in genesis ch 1, and there is no need of one.

Genesis 1
 1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

 2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

 4  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

 5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

In the beginning God created heaven and earth, then description of that heaven and earth.
at vs 5 He tells us it was the end of the first day.

Don't see what is so hard about it.
No gap is stated, no gap is implied, the language structure actually doesn't allow a gap, and there is no Biblical need for a gap here.

Why do people want to put a gap where God so plainly does not indicate one?

It is not even that God is silent about it - there is simply no biblical nor linguistic room for a gap.

Yes God doesn't say "By the way there is no Gap here", but that is because there is no need.

it would be like saying that my wife could be someone else's wife because all I said is "She's my wife" but I didn't state categorically that she is not anyone else's wife.
There is no need: the statement "She's my wife" is a complete statement and implies that she is not anyone else's wife.

God's statements with regard to creation are complete and there is no need for Him to rule out a gap - the lack of Gap is implied in the stating of six days, the very words and syntax used, and simply in the information given.

I agree with both - a good augmentation ministry, but dangers are there as mentioned.

In one respect "shut ins" could be served as well by providing the services on a thumb drive - that way they get personal contact when the drive is dropped off (or better yet, watched with them).

But there is benefit in the "fellowship" that SHOULD happen at church. It was discussed recently about friendship being primarily among Christians - it is important that we build relationships within our churches.

This would be infinitely more difficult without the face to face.

Well Dave, in the land of Oz, we had: Leg of Lamb (yum), Salt and Pepper Calamari (very good), Vegemite on Toast (disgusting), Anzac Biscuits (love em), Macadamia Nuts (had to fight everyone for them), and then Lamingtons (yummy!). I hope that represented Australia well!

Bro. Garry

That'll do!

Let me tell you, no Macadamia makes it past me alive.

You have to be able to four pieces of toast with vegemite at the citizenship ceremony or they kick you out of the country. :lol:

What is the stuff from Oz?