HappyChristian

I hope he is truly saved - but too many of these Hollywood/celebrity conversions are just junk, making religious people with no real spiritual substance. Oh, Elon Musk is saved because his interviewers got him to pray with them (with no clear gospel presentation or repentance). Oh, Chris Pratt is saved because he said something about the (universal) Fatherhood of God at a Disney convention recently (of course, you must overlook the fact that he started blaspheming God and using Jesus’ name in vain in several of his recent movies - if he was really taking a stand for Jesus because he got saved, you figure he would stand against using his professed Saviour’s name as a swear word). Be like Justin Bieber - produce basically pornographic music videos as long as you cover yourself with “Jesus tattoos”. Now THAT’s showing love for (the Hollywood) Jesus!!

Good question. Still, it doesn't negate salvation if it was a genuine act of faith.

I've found material he produced for Christian families to be very helpful. Particularly 'The Christian Home.'
 

I remember that. I was at Bible College when he first started Crown

No, it's not supposed to be a "social club" per se.. But being "social" is the whole point of  "the assembling of yourselves together".
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

There are differences between coffee and water...coffee is hot and can scald if someone is not careful and  spills it on someone. Drinking-temp water is not/would not.  Coffee stains if spilled, water does not. Coffee stinks as it sits and dries if not thoroughly cleaned up. Water does not. As I mentioned earlier, coffee will also mold. Water will not. (now, granted, if someone is on the ball and thoroughly cleans the spill, there are not real problems...but when the church cleaner isn't thorough, or when a spill is not mentioned, problems come).
Aside from that, coffee is also a beverage that many folks enjoy while chatting with friends. No problem with that. But we have experienced the casual attitude that takes over when everyone's holding a cup of coffee (in some cases it was tea and hot chocolate - you can't say no to those if you say yes to coffee).  Anyone who is familiar with human nature knows that an irreverent attitude during worship service is a heart issue. That's not even my point...my point is if the pastor KNOWS that something is going to encourage a casual atmosphere and allows it, that pastor is guilty of encouraging what will likely lead to an irreverent - and then worldly - atmosphere, and heart issues amongst those who are irreverent. If you haven't experienced a church that is actually irreverent due to casual atmosphere, it's not uplifting at all.
Again, each church has to make its own decision. But I have to disagree that church is a  "private social club." God's church is not a club, social or otherwise, and shouldn't be treated as such. It is the called out assembly of believers joining together to worship a Holy God. Fellowshipping at church does not equate to the club atmosphere. True Christian fellowship far surpasses that of any social club. IMO.  (That does not mean churches that allow coffee during the morning service are sinning, FWIW.)
I don't think anyone is going to be able to point to scripture that forbids coffee during the worship service. But there are many principles regarding behavior in the House of God that might give folks pause.

There are differences between coffee and water...coffee is hot and can scald if someone is not careful and  spills it on someone. Drinking-temp water is not/would not.  Coffee stains if spilled, water does not. Coffee stinks as it sits and dries if not thoroughly cleaned up. Water does not. As I mentioned earlier, coffee will also mold. Water will not. (now, granted, if someone is on the ball and thoroughly cleans the spill, there are not real problems...but when the church cleaner isn't thorough, or when a spill is not mentioned, problems come).
Aside from that, coffee is also a beverage that many folks enjoy while chatting with friends. No problem with that. But we have experienced the casual attitude that takes over when everyone's holding a cup of coffee (in some cases it was tea and hot chocolate - you can't say no to those if you say yes to coffee).  Anyone who is familiar with human nature knows that an irreverent attitude during worship service is a heart issue. That's not even my point...my point is if the pastor KNOWS that something is going to encourage a casual atmosphere and allows it, that pastor is guilty of encouraging what will likely lead to an irreverent - and then worldly - atmosphere, and heart issues amongst those who are irreverent. If you haven't experienced a church that is actually irreverent due to casual atmosphere, it's not uplifting at all.
Again, each church has to make its own decision. But I have to disagree that church is a  "private social club." God's church is not a club, social or otherwise, and shouldn't be treated as such. It is the called out assembly of believers joining together to worship a Holy God. Fellowshipping at church does not equate to the club atmosphere. True Christian fellowship far surpasses that of any social club. IMO.  (That does not mean churches that allow coffee during the morning service are sinning, FWIW.)
I don't think anyone is going to be able to point to scripture that forbids coffee during the worship service. But there are many principles regarding behavior in the House of God that might give folks pause.

I drink coffee in Sunday School and leave my cup there when church starts.  I don't believe it belongs in the preaching service and I can do without it for an hour. But I wouldn't attend John Piper's church regardless of whether he let me drink coffee in the sanctuary or not. He has much more pressing things to get right on, than "drinking coffee" in church.

My hubs has told folks no coffee in the sanctuary at all, nor other drinks besides water. We meet in a manufactured home, so the living room area (which is our sanctuary) is open and connected with the kitchen. When we first began attending, Sunday and Wednesday nights were around the table where everyone had coffee or whatever.  Atmosphere was WAY too casual, and more general talking took place than anything else. People would bring whatever they were drinking into the sanctuary on Sunday mornings. And there was a spill. Stained the (already messy) carpet, but worse than that it wasn't wiped off the chairs...and it molded. Ugh!
So when  hubs became pastor, he shook things up...no more sitting around the table in the evenings, and nothing but water in the sanctuary. Made some folks pretty unhappy  (and the resulting gossip is what led to the church split about a year later). But he stuck to his guns.  Coffee was always ready when folks arrived, so they could sip and chat before services.
However, it was a habit for one of the men to start another pot just before the service ended...hubs put a stop to that, so the new pot was made earlier (we were given some carafes which kept the coffee hot, so that helped).
Fast forward to a guest beginning to attend. He had absolutely no respect for the fact that we were a church. He treated the building like it was a house (even wanted us to let him move in to the kids' Sunday School room since at the time we had no kids attending...even though he was told no, he began bringing some of his stuff and leaving it in there, hanging his clothes in the closet, etc). He did awful  things like hanging his wet socks on the fire extinguisher in the kitchen and walking around barefoot, getting upset when hubs told him to put shoes on because we are a church, not someone's house. There was a lot of other stuff. Like bringing breakfast in late to Sunday School and eating it over the island, rummaging through the fridge and the cupboards while hubs was teaching, etc. Leaving a mess, yada yada.
So hubs instituted a new thing: kitchen is closed 5minutes before Sunday School and not open again until after the morning service. Also closed during evening services. Everybody understood why and had no problem with it.
Our son is a major coffee drinker, as are two of the other men. But they don't even try to carry it into the sanctuary. And coffee drinking stops at 5 til service time.
All of that said is anecdotal, but it is why we don't have coffee during service times. There was not a reverent attitude and it really did hurt the atmosphere. No, coffee wasn't the culprit, but sitting there drinking it during service time helped create the atmosphere.
 

1. Hard to get out of the carpet
2. Why have it? Is someone that addicted they can’t bear to be without it for an hour? Burden of proof for having it should be on those wanting to bring it in (I say that as someone who sometimes is still drinking my first coffee to wake up as I arrive at church - but I finish it outside the sanctuary or leave it).

Amen to that! Vetting doesn't always work. This makes me want to vomit. And then get a baseball bat.......

Amen to that! Vetting doesn't always work. This makes me want to vomit. And then get a baseball bat.......

We need to find a way to keep these predators from being around our children/wives. 

It really is. Pastor Shiflett is a great guy and they did a great job on the film. It's worth the time to watch on youtube

I'm talking about in a time of a deadly emergency. Some churches are out far from police and the time it would take to get there it's better to be prepared ahead of time. I remember a State Trooper, who attended a church I did, warning us that at times, depending on where they were in the county and how many were on duty, it could take them 45 minutes to get to a call.
I know some of the brethren are dead set against self defense but not me.

Having a strong relationship with police doesn't mean a thing. I'm sure that school in Uvalde, TX had one.
I conceal carry but I don't advertise about it. I'm sure there are other men in church who do also.

If this is what this "preacher" believes is true, I hate to say it, but, I don't believe he has any business in the pulpit until his exegesis of scripture is on track with what the Bible really teaches. He sounds to me like some of the IFB preachers I grew up under...dictators. The Bible nowhere teaches this....he's just flat-out wrong...period. 

Paul had just been to our church a month prior. He looked in wonderful health then. God knows when to take us home.
 

He was a good man. I was his oldest daughter's K-5 school teacher at Freedom Christian School in Belpre. We did "Dimes for Deems" as they were getting ready to go to the Philippines. The whole church got involved, but the kids really loved it. We had cardboard with slots for dimes. I think once filled it was about $10. I was also his sister-in-law's roommate. Paul and Debbie were good people who loved the Lord (Debbie still is).

He was a good man. I was his oldest daughter's K-5 school teacher at Freedom Christian School in Belpre. We did "Dimes for Deems" as they were getting ready to go to the Philippines. The whole church got involved, but the kids really loved it. We had cardboard with slots for dimes. I think once filled it was about $10. I was also his sister-in-law's roommate. Paul and Debbie were good people who loved the Lord (Debbie still is).

I take no offense at what you stated, Brother. For the record, I've been with the North Fork Baptist Church of Shelbyville, Tennessee for over five years. Before that my wife and I were members of a church in our area that split. I was a laypreacher for the church before it split, and then after serving AFTER the split, because of the anymosity towards the split, my wife and I went WiTH the split. As far as "visiting many different Baptist Churches" incorrect. We've belonged to several because of splits in churches, my being involved with other churches ministries, and helping to plant churches. So, no offense taken. You're always welcomed to have the opinion you have about listening to ones own pastor..and I have to say that I agree with that...they ARE the undershepherd for the people whom they have as church members and should take that very seriously. I should clarify that because this IS A BAPTIST board, that's why I specifically mention that I've seen it in many BAPTIST churches...not just over a period of a few years, but for over 50 years. I know it's present in every denomination. 
But, again, I want you to be assured that I take no offense here...just wanted to clarify some things. One last thing, because of health issues, I'm not always able to be in church physically. My own church doesn't put their services online any longer, so I am pretty much resigned to either watching other Baptist preachers, or preachers whom I know are doctrinally sound, and believe me, they are getting to be far a few between. Still, I do have spiritual discernment and know how to compare to Scripture what is being said. That's one reason I brought Jeffress' comments to the news cycle! ? I used to listen to him years ago, but, during the Trump administration, he became far too political in nature for my tastes. My wife still listens to him, but I often hear her sayiing "Um...that's not right, Robert!" She starts pointing out in the Bible what's wrong with what he's said! I've taught her pretty well over the years. ?
Blessings, my friend and Brother! 
BT 

This church is about 30 minutes from us. It is the church that had its pastor jailed for 5 weeks because he couldn’t agree to bail conditions that violated his conscience (ironically, the consequences for his charges would have merited only fines, not imprisonment). Basically, the church chose not to comply with the unscriptural demands of the health services to limit attendance to 15% capacity (which practically means no physical distancing), and they refuse to enforce masking (because it is a personal health decision). The last few weeks, they have had capacity crowds, with more listening from outside. The police came at dawn and put 3 layers of fencing around the building. Multiple RCMP officers and private security are on site 24 hours to keep anyone approaching the building.
Pray for them - and for us! My church is one of about 20 in Alberta that have (very publicly) stated they are open for all who want to attend - no capacity limits. There are more that think the same, but they’re staying under the radar so far (as we were doing for several months). Our church had 50 visitors on Easter Sunday because we were open (for context, our core group through Covid was 60-80). Some came from churches who wouldn’t let them in the doors without a mask, despite legitimate medical issues. Others are coming because they feel convicted by God to meet together together with his people again, and their churches are fully virtual. We have been reported twice by local snitches, once for our Easter Sunday morning service, and we imminently expect a visit from health inspectors and the RCMP.
It’s unreal, you know. Our pastor talked to us at Bible study about what steps we would be taking when (not if) police came to building. I can’t believe we actually had that conversation in Canada - in North America. As treasurer, I’ve taken steps to ensure continuity of the office operations should we be locked out of the building. Today I moved a batch of extra hymnals offsite so we’ll have them if we lose access. I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m scared every time I go to church on Sunday.
Churches are so split over this issue. Many churches believe GraceLife should be following the government, period. Others, like us, believe that God did not grant the government authority over how the church worships, and we furthermore feel that they have not proven the necessity of these rules that override our charter freedoms of religion, assembly, and association. Every time a Covid case comes to court in Alberta, the charges are dropped by the Crown as soon as they are requested to provide the burden of proof (to prove that the restrictions are warranted by circumstances significant that enough to override our Charter of Rights). Many  congregations are split over this issue. The funny thing is that many unbelievers are standing up in support of the churches for this. They see the larger implications of the government’s actions. Many who haven’t been in church for years say they will visit GraceLife in support!

Have to say that the Reformed churches are putting us to shame here. I don’t agree with their doctrine, but their belief in the sovereignty of God has them leading the charge in standing up against these tyrannies. 
If you want a good source to research more about this case, check out rebelnews.com. You should check out their video from the first protest at the Edmonton Remand Centre in support of Pr. Coates when he was first out in jail. Best. Protest. Ever. Speakers were basically  pastors giving five minute sermons, and we sang hymns. The group you hear a couple times on camera singing really well in harmony is actually our church group.  ?
 
Edited to add: this guy is a member of GraceLife. He’s been live-streaming a lot from site. https://m.facebook.com/Devin-Davis-101163168761777/

Governmental Liberalism - The government putting its hand in your pocket to forcibly take your wealth for distribution to those whom they deem the worthy "poor" (after pocketing some themselves).
Biblical Liberality - You putting your own hand in your pocket to willingly and lovingly take your wealth for distribution to those whom the Holy Spirit directs you as the "poor and needy" (not the lazy and immoral).
Our Lord Jesus Christ and God's Holy Word command Biblical Liberality, but do NOT support governmental liberalism.  Those who use the commands of Biblical Liberality as a defense for governmental liberalism demonstrate their Biblical and spiritual ignorance.
(By the way, I am pretty sure that Bouncing Bill is still not using the King James translation for his Bible quotations.)

Christian Charity given willingly and directly to noble causes is not the same as compulsory giving to the government who then chooses for you where and how money is spent. Jesus asks you to do it directly and willingly. The politician seeks forced payment, forces you to give them your money while promising to only give some of it to the poor and even then to things which are appalling and poorly managed, then many squander what you give them to the point there is never enough for the original cause, so then demands more money which they then take by force from you. NOT. THE. SAME.

This is Pastor Trieber's update from this morning:
 
Newsom, CA's governor, said this virus was the opportunity to change society (not his exact words, but his meaning). He is proving it, as is our governor and some others.