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JJJ4given

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Posts posted by JJJ4given

  1. Hello InTruth. Thanks for joining the discussion. Just wanted to elaborate a little more on what the Holy Ghost has revealed to me on these verses.

    There are certainly consequences for all of our actions, some temporary, some permanent. Good rewards for a life of faith, and no reward for a life of carnality. I'll give you a bit of the background on Hebrews that might help to expand the understanding of this book.

    Imagine you are part of a congregation in the first century that consists mostly of Hebrews. You are also a Hebrew. You remember how before the new covenant came(the new testament assembly) you would meet at the synagogue where the priests performed the sacrifices. There was elaborate furniture and nice food at the feasts. You remember how you were taught as a child that taking part in the (old) covenant how there were promises of Israel inheriting and ruling the earth. There were other promises too. But you could only get in on those promises if you kept the feasts and performed the Mosaic sacrifices and laws.

    Also, early on in your life as a Jew, you had repented and trusted that God would provide a sacrifice for your sins. Later in your life when you heard about how Jesus the Christ had died on the cross and rose again, your heart had leaped for joy and the Spirit in you bare witness that it was the will of God.

    However, now you are no longer part of that old covenant since you haven't been to the synagogue in several years. So those promises no longer apply to you. But in the new covenant you are now meeting in caves and attics. You are meeting in discretion because the sanhedron in concord with the Roman government has declared Christianity to be illegal. In fact, there have been several of the sisters and brethren in your assembly who have been executed. There are also many who have quit and left for a more comfortable life. In fact, there are many complaining and talking about how things used to be in the synagogue worship. There is also fear that has crept in. There are some who are bitter because it was their own family members who were executed. So things aren't going too well. But you recall those who met with Jesus and how he told them that they could inherit the kingdom of God if they kept Christ's commandments. Christ commanded them in all things and in the new covenant worship: the New Testament church. So desiring to please God and Christ, you made sure to get baptized and take part in serving the congregation the Lord has placed you in.

    But even now they are talking about disbanding and going back to the synagogue. With this background, now read Hebrews and you may be able to better appreciate what the Holy Ghost was dealing with. All the references to the Old Testament are intended for a well-learned Hebrew audience.

    God bless!



  2. Sorry, I believe, no Holy Spirit- no salvation. The Spirit did not permently reside with the O.T. saint. Not until Christ's promise of the Comforter did this occur. When David committed his gross sins he prayed that God would not take his holy spirit away from him. In the context of Pslam 51 it refers to salvation. I will say though that I don't believe you can prove definitively either way whether Saul was saved or not. But God's spirit departing from him, an evil spirit in it's place, going to the witch of Endor (death under the law), his being cremated (a bad sign in the OT), his corpse being hung up (a sign of being cursed of God),his rebellion against God, his hatred of David all points to his LOSING his salvation.



    Don't know why you're sorry, seeing we agree on this point(no Holy Spirit- no salvation). If you read carefully what I said, I was making the point that Saul was saved before and after the Holy Ghost came onto him and, in the same fashion, departed from him.

    The Holy Ghost coming on someone to grant them the ability to perform an otherwise impossible task is very different from the Holy Ghost indwelling the believer. Like you, I would agree that the Holy Ghost isn't going to come onto a non-believer. If you wish to examine this more, read about the guy who made the ark of the covenant(Exodus 31). The Spirit of God filled him for the purpose of having the supernatural ability to make all of the furniture and the ark of the covenant exactly as God would have them do.

    However, I would disagree with you that Saul lost his eternal life just because the Holy Spirit departed from him, taking away his ability to prophesy. He may have done some bad things that have other temporary and permanent consequences; but what kind of eternal life is not eternal? The scriptures did not make any indication that his eternity would be with the non-believer, so why make such supposition?
  3. 'Tis very simple-Hebrews 6:4-6 stands on its own. When the verses are "taken" at their literal face value, their meaning is very clear. they need no other Scriptures to augment them.

    Once again, are unsaved people made partakers of the Holy Spirit?

    Does recovering from backsliding crucify Christ afresh?


    Robycop,

    Let's try this again.

    -We both agree that Hebrews 6 is dealing with believers. It is dealing with people who are saved.

    -However, you are contending that it is implying a loss of eternal life. You have yet to provide any scriptural backing with the verses surrounding Hebrews 6 to prove your case.

    -I am contending that Hebrews 6, is to be taken in context with the whole book(Hebrews). Since the whole book is dealing again and again with a walk of faith in the new covenant, and brings up examples that deal with a loss of inheritance as the consequence for not doing so, then I am expounding that Hebrews 6 maintains the general theme of the book and does not go off on some tangent. I have gone on to give just a small fraction of the evidence backing my position found all throughout Hebrews. Not only does Hebrews not mention eternal life through the whole book; it also goes on to mention several examples of inheritance being lost(Esau losing the birthright, fathers correcting their children: Hebrews 12:9 and 10 "but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.") as well as using the word inheritance speaking of Abraham and his walk of faith(Hebrews 11:8) and furthermore a much more direct assertion of this point in Hebrews 9:15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which were called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."

    Not eternal life, brother: eternal inheritance. The Holy Ghost didn't make any mistake in his usage of words.
  4. I believe JI was a prime example of what Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about. He let GREED take over in his life, despite having seen Jesus in action & heard mosta His sermons. I believe some of his motivation was that he believed jesus was gonna use His power to overthrow the Roman rule over the Jews. When He didn't do it, Judas was deeply disappointed. Judas threw away his salvation! JESUS didn't let him go; JUDAS let go of JESUS!

    And NO, "keeping the faith" is NOT 'working" for one's salvation, any more than one's coming to Christ in the first place is. It is keeping one's focus upon JESUS, seeking to obey and emulate Him as much as possible. OF COURSE it takes some work, but it CERTAINLY is NOT salvation based upon how "good" one is! It's salvation based upon one's BELIEF AND FAITH IN CHRIST as Lord, Savior, Son of God, and being himself God with His father & the Holy Spirit. he calls upon us to REPENT OF OUR SINS, which could be called a 'work' by some. And He said thru His bro James that FAITH WITHOUT WORX IS DEAD. Again, this is NOT "working to keep one's salvation"! It is CONTINUING IN THE FAITH one orifinally had to have come to Christ to begin with.

    Hebrews 6-4-6 isn't speaking of the 'backslider' who's become lax in his focus on Christ & who doesn't think of Him as often as he should-it's about those who totally and deliberately TURN THEIR BAX ON HIM, rejecting Him completely, after they were saved. Big difference in the saved backslider who's become indifferent towards God & the person who, after being saved, SPURNS Him, not believing in Jesus any more.


    Robycop,

    That's just peachy that you believe all those things. However, if you wish to have others believe the same as you, then please provide some sort of evidence in the scriptures to make a case for what you believe. I have provided Hebrews 12 dealing with Esau as clear evidence that Hebrews 6 is contextually dealing with inheritance and not eternal life. Can you find something in Hebrews closer to Hebrews 6 that would show to the contrariwise? If not, then I believe this discussion is pretty well come to a finale. As always, I invite you or anyone else for that matter to prove me wrong with scriptural evidence and I will reconsider my position.


  5. Judas Iscariot had power to cast out devils. Jesus said this could only be done "by the finger of God." So Judas must of had the Holy Ghost to perform this.(luke 11:20)

    As far as Saul,

    I Samuel 16:14- But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

    The Holy Ghost doesn't depart from the Christian but abides in him until the day of redemption. David prayed that God wouldn't take the holy spirit from him and God didn't. This is why our salvation is called "the sure mercies of David" in the book of Acts. David's salvation was a foreshadow of ours. Saul didn't have the any sure mercies from God.


    Concerning Saul, that verse needs to be understood contextually with 1 Samuel 10:6-10. Samuel told Saul that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon him and he would prophesy as the prophets. Nothing to do with salvation, brother. If it wasn't referring to salvation in 1 Samuel 10:6-10, then it certainly wasn't referring to a loss of salvation in 1 Samuel 16:14. Context is important. Suppose you would say 1 Samuel 10 was referring to salvation. This would make you a Calvinist also since Samuel would then be telling Saul that he's going to get saved and how it's going to happen. What choice does Saul have in the matter then? However, if he was already saved, and if this is referring to some special abilities being conferred upon him by the Spirit of the Lord being upon him, and later departing from him, then this is certainly not dealing with salvation.

    Concerning Judas, it was Christ who gave them all the ability to cast out devils. He told them to do so in his name. Luke 11:20 is not saying someone needs the Holy Ghost in them to cast out devils. That would be a far stretch from that verse. Also, having the authority to cast out devils is no indication of one's own heart condition. I see no verse that would support that.
  6. Missionary Baptists are not necessarily Calvinists, though there are some that call themselves such that are Calvinist. To prove my point, I will take a website of a Missionary Baptist church and quote them. This is not one I know or belong to by the way, just did a google and clicked the first one:

    http://pluto.matrix49.com/15361/?subpag ... aith.shtml

    VIII-THE GRACE OF REGENERATION

    We believe that in order to be saved, sinners must be regenerated or born again (John 3:3, 6-7; I Cor. 2:14; II Cor. 5:17; Tit. 3:5); that regeneration consists in giving a holy disposition to the mind (Deut. 30:6; Jer. 24:7; Ezek. 36:26; Gal 5:6; I John 4:7); that it is effected in a manner above our comprehension by the power of the Holy Spirit, in connection with divine truth (Ps. 119:50; Prov. 1:23; John 17:20; I Cor. 4:15; James 1:16; I Peter 1:23-25), so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the gospel (Ps. 110:3; John6:44-45, 65; II Cor. 10:5; Eph 1:17-20; I Peter 1:22-25); and that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance (Acts 5:31; II Tim. 2:24-25), faith (John 6:29; Acts 18:27; Phil. 1:29; Col. 2:12; I Peter 1:21) and newness of life (Rom 6:4; I Cor. 6:9-11; I Peter 4:1-4).

    (Highlights are mine)

    Some people I know involved with the ABA have told me that it is approximately 70% of those who are part of the ABA that are calvinist. So certainly not sweeping rule.

  7. King Saul was a partaker of the Holy Ghost and still went to hell as did Judas Iscariot. They just didn't have the abiding Comforter.


    King Saul went to hell? Can you validate that theory with scriptures?

    Also, can you confirm for me that Judas Iscariot was a partaker of the Holy Ghost? Thanks!
  8. You are going under the assumption that Hebrews 6:4-6 is referring to eternal life. However, there is no indication of that. Your view of this passage especially loses ground when taking into consideration that Hebrews does not even talk about eternal life, not just in chapter 6, but through the whole book!

    Secondly, the pronouns are plural(i.e. they, them, their, etc.). That is significant since the book of Hebrews is addressing Hebrews in Christ's New Testament church who are considering going back to the old covenant worship instead. If they had fallen away and returned to the old, how could they continue to take part in the new covenant that Christ started? If that church that consisted of Hebrews went back to the synagogue, to the old, how could they receive the blessings of the new and reform as a church after disbanding to return to the old?



    Let me be more clear. I believe fully that eternal life is ETERNAL. However, I do not believe Hebrews 6:4-6, or the book of Hebrews, for that matter, is dealing with eternal life. I believe it is addressed to those who ALREADY have eternal life. Furthermore, this is not signifying a loss of eternal life, but a loss of INHERITANCE. Let's look further in the book to see if this holds true. We go on to read in chapter 12 about Esau who "for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears."
    Did it say Esau lost his eternal life? IT WASN'T TALKING ABOUT ETERNAL LIFE!!! It's talking about inheritance. You can lose what God would have for you as an inheritance, and not be able to gain that back. This does not mean you lost your eternal life. There will be plenty who will get no reward/inheritance when they get to the Bema seat. Their walk of faith here will determine whether they do or not. And at that time don't plan on God just changing his mind("renewed unto repentance").
  9. You are going under the assumption that Hebrews 6:4-6 is referring to eternal life. However, there is no indication of that. Your view of this passage especially loses ground when taking into consideration that Hebrews does not even talk about eternal life, not just in chapter 6, but through the whole book!

    Secondly, the pronouns are plural(i.e. they, them, their, etc.). That is significant since the book of Hebrews is addressing Hebrews in Christ's New Testament church who are considering going back to the old covenant worship instead. If they had fallen away and returned to the old, how could they continue to take part in the new covenant that Christ started? If that church that consisted of Hebrews went back to the synagogue, to the old, how could they receive the blessings of the new and reform as a church after disbanding to return to the old?

  10. Communion is the celebration of the Lord's last supper which was, of course the Passover supper. Acts 3 is slightly after the feast of Pentecost which is 50 days after Passover. In short, the breaking of bread in Acts 3 has nothing to do with Passover, and therefore nothing to do with communion.

    Love,
    Madeline


    We weren't talking about Acts 3. We were talking about Acts 2. Also, Acts 3 makes no mention of breaking of bread.

    However, in Acts 2 it says they continued in those things. Not just had a feast on some holiday as you would infer:

    Acts 2:42
  11. Why would you think that "breaking of bread" is referring to the practice of the Lord's supper?

    I think that may be an assumption (though I haven't really looked at it... which is why I am asking :ooops )


    All the times this phrasing is used in the four gospels, is with the bread in the Lord's hands and he is doing the breaking of it. In fact, that is how Cleopas and the disciple with him recognized who Jesus was after he was resurrected. The breaking of bread is symbolic of the breaking of his body.

    Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

    1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

    Pretty evident.


  12. He's never mentioned baptism with regards to the Lord's Supper.


    The scriptures gives the proper order:
    Acts 2
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
    41 (1st)Then they that gladly received his word
    (2nd)were baptized: and the same day there were
    (3rd)added unto them about three thousand souls.
    42
  13. [quote="BobOwen"]
    Pastor Mitch,

    Where in the Bible does sin get a degree with being "public"?

    Do the ten commandments become "public"? If adultery is a public sin then so is "bearing false witness" and "coveting" and so on and so on?
    [/quote]

    The issue here is not about "public" sin. The issue is about qualifications for a certain position of serving in the church. Pastor is a position in the church. God said the "man of one wife". Laid it out pretty simple. The man may be forgiven. But that still doesn't change the qualifications for being a pastor. He doesn't meet the qualifications. This has nothing to do with forgiveness or sin. It has to do with qualifications set forth by God.

  14. [quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
    [color=#a30000]What is so deadly about the gap theory is that it is a compromise for Christians who try to reconcile what the Bible says with what evolutionists say. Evolution is a false religion; it is not science.

    The gap theory is 100% wrong. God says He created everything in 6 literal days. Period.[/color]
    [/quote]

    You beat me to it. :lol: I type too slow.

  15. [quote="BobOwen"]
    JJJ,
    do you read my posts?

    Here is what I said:
    Pastor Ron Robinson was my Pastor in Oregon long ago. I heard about the gap theory from him first. Matter of fact I even after the sermon that he mention it he showed it to me. He is a good friend of our family I've watch his kids grow up. I was introduced to him after I heard a message from Pastor Steve Stergeon about the King James Bible.

    Pastor Ron was Pastored under Lester Roloff not Dr. Ruckman.

    Did I say I heard the gap theory from Dr. Ruckman? Nope!!
    Did I say I beleieved the gap theory? Nope!!

    I've not seen in scripture any thing to say it is not true either. I don't think it is poison to hear from the list of Pastors I listed earlier??
    [/quote]

    I did not say you believed in it. Just said if you do we can discuss it in another post. I am glad to know you do not believe this.

    What is the gap theory? It is an attempt to unite the worse heresy schemed by man: evolution; with the only written truth we have from God: the Bible.

    Compromise. Plain and simple.

    What is devastating about it? The Bible says:

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    According to the gap theory, death is not a result from sin. If millions or billions of years happened between the verses in Genesis, and many animals died during that time and placed fossils, then death is something natural and not a punishment from God. Therefore sin is not the cause of death. Therefore no need for a Saviour.

    Also, according to gap theory, God didn't mean it when he said, Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. [b]And the evening and the morning were the first day[/b]." Nor did he mean that "And the evening and the morning were the second day." and each other time it says this.

    So much for God being honest. I don't know how you could get anything else out of, "And the evening and the morning were the first day."

    Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

    The Jews seemed to understand what he meant pretty well with the sabbath. It didn't mean some abstract thing such as "a long time period".

    Compromise is how the catholic church got started.

    Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

    You take out the first precepts and all the rest fall out. I wouldn't be surprised if they soon stop teaching salvation by grace through faith (assuming they still do).

  16. Did you know that rat poisoning is 98% corn meal? 98% of it is good stuff. It's just the 2% poison that makes it bad. You may agree with most of the things he says, but if he's teaching the gap theory, that makes him a heretic. If you agree with it and wish to discuss the validity of the theory we can do that in another post. However, most everyone on this board is not deluded by it.

  17. [quote="BobOwen"]
    Did any of you cut out Psalms 51 yet out of your Bible?

    Nope. ... [b]King David had a man killed had adultery with a married women and still was king. Why did God allow any more Psalms in the Bible after all his sins. Why did not God take Song of Solomon out too. Why did he let Solomon stay king? God is not us and He his more mercy than all of us combined.[/b]
    [/quote]

    Hw can you compare a king to a pastor? God established the role of the pastor. God didn't establish the role of a earthly king (nor approve of it). A king is a dictator. A pastor is a shepherd that is to feed the flock spiritual food. If you believe pastors are kings on earth, do you also believe that Mary is the queen of heaven? Both ideas are ludicrous. Let me quote some verses.
    Luke 22:25-27
    25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
    26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
    27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

    Jesus Christ gave us the perfect example of a pastor. He was the pastor of the church at that time. Before he ascended back to heaven he said to Peter:

    John 21:15-17
    15 ¶ So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
    16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
    17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

    Now what does forgiveness have anything to do with him being able to stay in the pastorate? It doesn't matter if his wife left him or not, he remarried. Two wrongs don't make a right. He can serve God in a different way but not as a pastor.

    Besides that, anyone that teaches the gap theory is not teaching this from God's word. His word is plain and simple. 6 days.

  18. [quote="BobOwen"]
    [b]Have anyone one here ever MET Dr. Ruckman??
    Have you ever called him and ask him a question??
    Have you ever heard his complete testimony from him in his own words???

    Have anyone here had a parent divorce another parent??

    Has anyone here read your Bible in your life time over 200 times cover to cover??

    Has anyone here tithed over 25%?

    Has anyone here heard of the following:
    James Modlish
    Steve Stergeon
    Doug Fisher
    Rick DeMichele
    Rick Sowell
    Brad Frisen
    Paul Huddlestun
    Ken Blue
    John Paisley
    Tim Shanks
    John Haveman
    Chuck Schlink
    Nick Serino
    Ron Robinson
    and on and on and on ....

    Did any of you cut out Psalms 51 yet out of your Bible?

    Bro Bob Owen[/b]
    [/quote]

    Have anyone one here ever MET Dr. Ruckman??

    Nope

    Have you ever called him and ask him a question??

    Nope

    Have you ever heard his complete testimony from him in his own words???

    Nope

    Have anyone here had a parent divorce another parent??

    1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, [b]the husband of one wife[/b], vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

    Has anyone here read your Bible in your life time over 200 times cover to cover??

    Satan knows the scriptures pretty well too. So what does this prove?

    Has anyone here tithed over 25%?

    What I tithe is between God and I, but it usually is more then what you are asking.

    Has anyone here heard of the following:
    James Modlish
    Steve Stergeon
    Doug Fisher
    Rick DeMichele
    Rick Sowell
    Brad Frisen
    Paul Huddlestun
    Ken Blue
    John Paisley
    Tim Shanks
    John Haveman
    Chuck Schlink
    Nick Serino
    Ron Robinson
    and on and on and on ....

    Nope, are those country singers? Don't listen to that kind of music...

    Did any of you cut out Psalms 51 yet out of your Bible?

    Nope.

    2 Timothy 3:16 [b]All[/b] scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Bro Bob Owen

    There is a forum just for polls. :D You might want to try your questions there! Just a thought! :idea:

  19. [quote="nodnarb"]
    To be honest I have never cared much for Pensecola. It is more of a college with a church then a church with a college. I know that probably makes no sense but to me it means a deal.
    [/quote]

    That makes perfect sense and I absolutely agree. Amen to that! It is sad that most Baptist colleges are that way. :(

  20. Quote

    I want to know what everyones views are on this college.i plan on going next year.right now my two cousins,brother,and sister and her fiance are going there and honestly i can hardly wait to go because i love to study the Bible.theres alot of truth in Dr. Ruckmans stuff but there are some things that arent true(no ones perfect)such as they teach a gap theory which i do not believe in. right now im going to north star bible institute.which teaches the exact same stuff but not as many classes.so im also wondering what you alls think i should do.stay home and keep going to NSBI or go to PBI? i couldnt stand to be away from home. but i want to learn!

    sincerely,
    Amie Jo

    if you ain't got a KJV you ain't got the truth kiddos
     



    I think the best thing you could do is pray about it and also look into other alternatives. Make sure you go where God wants you to go. He's got the answers. 😃

    Now I would say that the KJV is definitely the translation for the english speaking people, I would also say there are other good translations in other languages that are good for that language. (The chinese bible is definitely not, though, as my wife and I have learned!!! Just another off shoot of the revised version. Someone needs to do a good chinese translation from the textus receptus.) There is my 2 cents. 😃

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