MatthewDiscipleOfGod

So, you say if something that is the truth comes from a less than ideal source that somehow makes it no longer the truth? Your wrong. Balaam was a false teacher that is most likely in hell, yet he spoke the word of God on several occasions. Caiaphas the high priest spoke the word of God in John 11:49-52 though he was a major player in the crucifiction of Christ. The truth remains the truth unless something is added to it or taken away from it that changes it. At what point do you draw the line? If someone was to secretly write "Jesus was a liar" in the back of your copy of the KJV without you knowing would that false statement now written in your bible mean someone couldn't get saved from reading your copy of the KJV? Silly I know, but not much more silly than you claiming the source one hears the gospel from determines whether or not a person is saved rather than simply repentance and faith toward God in the heart through the truth of the gospel itself regardless of the source.

Although I've never seen "The Message" version of the Bible, nor have I any desire to, I know that it's popular with many today.

Anyway, here's just a small comparison of the King James compared to "The Message"...prepare to be blessed...


Matthew 9:34
KJV - “But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.”

THE MESSAGE - “The Pharisees were left sputtering, ‘Hocus Pocus. It’s nothing but Hocus Pocus.’”

Hocus Pocus! Are you serious? HOCUS POCUS!


__________________________________________________________________________


Matt. 11:28-30
KJV - “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

THE MESSAGE - “Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you’ll recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me -- watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you.”

What!?!? Learn the "unforced rhythms of grace". Hey, at least this "Cool Jesus" won't lay anything heavy on us!


__________________________________________________________________________


John 1:18
KJV - “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

THE MESSAGE - “No one has ever seen God, not so much of a glimpse. This one-of-a-kind God-expression, who exists at the very heart of the Father, has made him plain as day.”

WOW! So Jesus, the only begotten Son has now become..."this one-of-a-kind God-expression"!


__________________________________________________________________________


John 3:5
KJV - “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

THE MESSAGE - “Jesus said, You’re not listening. Let me say it again. Unless a person submits to this original creation--the ‘wind hovering over the water’ creation, the invisible moving the visible, a baptism into a new life--it’s not possible to enter God’s kingdom.”

All I can say here is...


__________________________________________________________________________


Acts 8:20
KJV - “But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee...”

THE MESSAGE - “Peter said, ‘To (deleted by No Nicolaitans!) with your money!’”

Gee, I guess Peter never was able to repent of his cursing!


__________________________________________________________________________


1 Corinthians 13:12-13
KJV - “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”

THE MESSAGE - “We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears, and the sun shines bright! ... Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.”

How does seeing through a glass translate over into "squinting in a fog and peering through a mist? And we are to love extravagantly? I'm sure the Prosperity preachers love that!



__________________________________________________________________________


Philippians 2:12
KJV - “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

THE MESSAGE - “Be energetic in your life of salvation, reverent and sensitive before God. That energy is God’s energy, an energy deep within you, God himself willing and working at what will give him the most pleasure.”

Psycho-babble "energy" talk!



__________________________________________________________________________


Colossians 2:10
KJV - “And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”

THE MESSAGE - “You don’t need a telescope, a microscope, or a horoscope to realize the fullness of Christ, and the emptiness of the universe without him...”

Telescope, microscope, or HOROSCOPE!?!? I'm sure that was taken directly from the Greek! Give me a break!!!
_____________________________________________________________________________

Matthew 5:3
KJV - “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

THE MESSAGE - “You’re blessed when you’re at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule.”

What? The end of my rope!?!
_____________________________________________________________________________

Matthew 5:8
KJV - “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”

THE MESSAGE - “You’re blessed when you get your inside world, your mind and heart, put right. Then you can see God in the outside world.”

What? My "inside world"...what's that supposed to mean?!?
_____________________________________________________________________________

Matthew 5:14
KJV - “Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.”

THE MESSAGE - “Here’s another way to put it: You’re here to be light, bringing out the God-colors in the world.”

What? What are "God-colors"!?!
_____________________________________________________________________________

This sounds like psycho-babble to me! Psycho-babble is rampant in churches today. You hear plenty of sermons about...

How to reach your full potential How to have a happy life


But you never hear the psycho-babble preachers even touch on sin, hell, or judgment...probably because they don't believe in hell.
It's no wonder they like "The Message"...it promotes the same psycho-babble that they preach and teach!

Yes, Paul and Peter warned about false teachers and heresies way back then. I don't care if Augustine, Spurgeon or George Washington taught or believed your "Reformation" "doctrines of grace" or whatever you want to call it.. You can trust any famous man you want to. I'm going to base my belief on what's written on the pages of the King James Bible and the Bible says that "for God so loved THE WORLD.....How big is His LOVE? Did it extend to a fraction of the world or the whole thing? It completely covered and filled every crack and crevice of this planet my friend....and it says that HE GAVE.....God is a GIVER, my friend, not a TAKER. He gave His only begotten son that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH. When all the sinners stand at the Great White Throne they will have no excuse whatsoever.because God's love was extended and made known and was freely given for EVERY PERSON who ever lived on this planet from Genesis to Revelation, from Alpha to Omega from the beginning to the end. His love is powerful and it is unlimited. He is FAR bigger and far more EFFECTIVE and THOROUGH in what He does than you credit Him. He is JUST and FAIR and He is altogether Lovely...He's not a selfish monster.. You can serve and preach your selfish limited atonement idol of your own making if you want to. I serve the Jesus who said come unto me ALL ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest take my yoke upon you and learn of me for I AM MEEK and LOWLY of heart and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

You mention "imagine" and "creator"
Carl, God made man "in his own image". We, like God, also possess creativity. As you mentioned, we have imaginations. Sadly, we have used our imaginations for evil, as Genesis 6 affirms. The first recorded act of man's creativity was during God's creation in Genesis 2:

Using Imagination for Good
Genesis 2:19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.Good

Using Imagination for Evil
Genesis6:5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

If God causes, (ordains, plans....whatever you want to call it) everything that happens, Why would He be grieved about wickedness the HE planned to begin with? He wouldn't because he did not cause man to be evil. Man used his own God-given creative ability to devise evil and man uses his God given will to go his own way and do what he wants. God is not going to punish you for something that's HIS fault to begin with. He provides the remedy for your wicked imagination and mine. It;s up to you to decide.....Just like God let Adam name the animals whatever Adam wanted to name them. He's letting you use your imagination and your will to do whatever you please also....just remember, there are always consequences for our choices. You are not an electrochemical reaction or a robot. You are a creative being with a will of your own.

Knowing something doesn't mean you are making it happen. I can know for a fact Jesus is returning but it isn't me doing it. I can know that if I drop a rock it will fall. That doesn't mean I am causing the actual falling to happen (that would be gravity). I'm not sure why Calvinists always get hung up on the faulty logic that knowing = causing.

I believe in predestination too. It's a corporate predestination based on being in Christ or not. You get in Christ you're predestinated for Heaven, you remain outside you are not. God doesn't choose who goes to Hell and who doesn't, that is contrary to His nature and the very clear teachings of Scripture. It's not until you start muddying around in stuff and start interpreting clear passages by unclear ones that you get a different result.

He said He's not willing that any should perish, it's that simple. The passages on predestination need to be interpreted in that light. If you do, you understand the idea of corporate predestination. Get in the plane, you're predestinated to land in DC; get in Christ, you're predestinated to go to Heaven.

Why is this so hard to get?

I won't read a book by John Piper because he's a 7 point charismatic that has no problems with CCM music, Rick Warren and infant baptism.

I won't read Hugh Ross because he is an old earth scientist that believes nature is the 67th book of the Bible.

I won't read a lot of junk out there. There is a lot of good material by people like David Cloud, John Van Gelderen and John Rice that I can spend my time and money on instead. Sure, I may give Spurgeon a break and read him and I might read some "church fathers" to find out what they believed. Use your time and money wisely. To many Christians spend more time reading books than they do reading The Book.

Is there a different church your family could attend?

Those are some good points swathdiver. I use to be big into CCM. I have gone to hundreds of CCM concerts and have owned hundreds of CCM CDs. I then started to realize that many of these artists consider Catholics as their Christian brothers. With that and the weak to out right bad theology I knew I had to do away with CCM.

God invented dispensationalism. Sorry bud. :icon_mrgreen:

There is no reason not to take the flames literally. Do I want the unrepentant to burn in eternal hellfire? Yes. That is God's will and I must align my will with his. Is that something easy to do? No. Only through Christ living through me is that possible.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

A Christian, by very definition of the word, is a Christ follower. Christ's will is that all that die in sin suffer in everlasting hell. That is why I am quick to share the gospel with the living unrepentant. You on the other hand are fighting against the will of God in this very thread.

I always appreciate it when the women around me dress modest. It's frustrating when women, especially in a church, are showing to much below the neck, above the knee or have clothes so tight they might well be wearing nothing at all. Having people approach you about dressing modest can be a great way to share the gospel. No one is going to be turned off from the gospel because you wear a dress. There are bigger problems in play instead.

There is a lot compromising going on in Baptist circles. When they are approached about it they resort to all sorts of attacks and never address the issue at hand. It is really a shame that it is nearly impossible to find a church that still practices solid separation and has not given in to the world's music. We need more people like David Cloud to stand up and point out these issues to the public.

The problem is that you assume God's principles are being violated. You need to establish that as fact before you assume it.

They are not worth the time to respond. Many of the things on the list are strawmen. I have much better things to do with my time than to debate with people that use logical fallacies in their tactics.