IM4given

Well, as one who has been accused of being too "legalistic" let's take a look at the context of that verse. The difference between what I believe and what some others believe, is that I believe the Word is speaking to ALL Christians past, present, and future, and there are others who think that this is just something that referred to those particular people who lived in Ephesas at that particular time in history. Either the Holy Bible is the living breathing Word of God, or it is just a dusty old history book, it just depends on your point of view. Either you love the Lord and you want to do what is pleasing to Him, or you don't love the Lord, and you do what pleases yourself or the world. That is what it means to grieve the Holy Spirit. It is as simple as that.

Ephesians 4 (I added the emphasis on parts I think are especially important to this issue)
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth

WOW! Talk about a "Dear John" letter - that one was the pits! :verymad:

:clap: :amen:

Yes, I saw that video also, linked from the first web site I mentioned. Crazy.

Also, Seth told me that a link I added had some bad adds on the side. My apologies, I didn't really notice them.

God bless,

Calvary

:pray

This is what is happening in our state - it makes me physically sick!

First of all, welcome to OB!

I am strictly a lay-person and as such I cannot offer much advice about how you ought to conduct your church, except to offer you some insight from my perspective. I am also divorced, and unemployed - I would never DREAM of going to my church and asking them to loan me $20,000! A church is NOT a financial institution, IMHO, nor is it obligated to become one. I think you did the right thing to help her as you did, including your prayers, etc. If members feel compelled to take up a collection to assist her to buy a sack of groceries, or perhaps assist her with making a electric bill payment, then they should do so, but only out of the goodness of their hearts, with no thought of repayment. To me this is how members show their love for one another. No church member should go hungry or homeless, (if anyone has a spare room that can be used for a few days, etc.) - but no one should expect the church to make loans for large sums of money like that.

As for the Amway, Mary Kay, Avon stuff etc. I agree that this should not be done at church. If church members want to do this on their own time in their own homes, then that is okay, but it should not be done at church in God's house on God's time. If you need scriptural reference, just go to Jesus and the money changers on the church steps. That was the angriest he ever became, so it was quite significant.

That is just my own personal opinion for whatever it's worth. :wave:

Please pray for me' date=' I have a lot of fear inside me. I always ask God to take this away but it seems that it always come back over and over. I hope this will go away this 2009 as I am really struggling with it this 2008. Please pray also for the salvation of my whole family. I hope God will save them as I know that life is so short. I really hope that God will have mercy on them just like He had mercy on me...Thanks![/quote']

Psalm 23 always helps me when I am afraid and 2008 has been an especially trying year! I will pray for you and for the salvation of your lost family members! May you shine as a beacon of hope that God meant you to be! :pray

Well he was a good governor compared to the one that is now there in that postion

I think that what I object to the very most about Rick Warren is the way he has "mass-marketed" American religion like he was one of those Madison Avenue ad men. Give the people what they want and they will come in droves - and they do. He has diluted the Word of God so much that very often the people in his churches walk away feeling very good about themselves, and yet leave their salvation in some serious doubt. He does not teach the Gospel of Sin, Repentance and Salvation, or even Heaven and Hell - those words are forbidden in his mini-lessons. Not only has he done this with his own church at Saddleback, but then he writes books and has seminars and teaches other churches how to mass-market religion too - and church after church drops by the wayside of this apostate teaching. How many souls of lost people will Rick Warren have on his hands when time of Judgement comes? He may have the best of intentions, but he is going about his ministry all wrong and completely contrary to scriptures.

It is not that I do not think he is not "conservative enough" it is that I think he has completely sold-out Christianity to the evils of making a fast buck.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

When I was a kid we used to skip rope to "first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes (name of jumper) with a baby carriage" - even as children we knew the correct order of things.

It seems now that couples in this world want nothing better than to co-habitate for awhile (we used to call it shacking up), and then they might have two or three out of wedlock children along the way (we used to call them illegitaimate and worse), and sometimes something will cause them to decide to go ahead and "make it official" - with their children as the flower girls and ring bearer ad what have you! Or maybe they will just live together in sin for the rest of their lives and the law calls this a common-law marriage for some strange reason. Welcome to the 21st century. People are so crazy and mixed up that they have no idea about what is right or wrong, what is moral or immoral, what is perverse and what is not perverse. Co-habitating same sex couples now are trying to impose their perversness on the sanctity of marriage!

Christians see the world living this way, and wonder why they can't live this way too? :loco

I believe marraige is a religious institution founded by God, and the first wedding was between Adam and Eve and that was supposed to provide the "blueprint" of what sort of earthly relationship that God intended between men and women. Sure humans have shacked up, slept together without ceremony for centuries,even practiced polygamy, engaged themselves in wild orgies, and all other sorts of sexual sins, but that does not mean that was what God ordained for marriage. When two people come together without any formalities, it seems that the relationship is not "bonded" together or blessed by God. It is like the difference between having a sack full of wool yarn, or having a knitted sweater. They both consist of the same stuff, but one is just a loose mess of wool, while the other is neat and orderly and has a purpose.

The Bible tells us in 4 different passages to "fret not"

Psalm 37:1 A Psalm of David. Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

Psalm 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

Psalm 37:8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

Proverbs 24:19 Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked;

...and Proverbs 24 is one of those times....

I am going to take the Lord's advice and "fret not" - I am just going to rest in the Lord and wait patiently for his Second Coming! :amen:

:pray

:pray

Praying that God's Angels will watch over and protect ALL the children in this situation and that His will be done in all of your lives. :pray :pray :pray

Nope - we could probably get 100 pages of comments out of each one of those! :Green

Stage Three 3. b. is worth at least 40 or 50 pages all by itself around here!

This would be a great "watch night" sermon to preach in the New Year! :amen:

Istanbul was Constantinople :Green

[tube]vsQrKZcYtqg[/tube]

Here is an outline for the New Year maybe there is someone out there that can use it.
Let me know if it is a help and I will be glad to put more of them on this message board.

Getting It Right in the New Year
[bible]Kings 18[/bible]; [bible]2 Chronicles 29-32[/bible]

Intro: Traditional New Years? resolutions. What do they tell us about people?s expectations for the coming year? What can we do to realize these expectations? From the life of King Hezekiah, we discover a three-stage process that can help us ?get it right? in the New Year.

Stage One: Starting Right

1. A popular New Year?s tradition?with a catch!
2. Hezekiah?s resolution was to do right ([bible]2 Kings 18:3[/bible])
a. The time of his resolution ([bible]2 Chronicles 29:3[/bible])
b. The motivation behind his resolution ([bible]2 Kings 18:3[/bible]; see also 2 Chronicles 31:20).
3. A fact of life: most people are unable to keep their resolutions; why do you think this is so? (Hint: see [bible]Romans 7:15-25[/bible])
4. Hezekiah?s resolve to do right is all the more amazing in light of some of the obstacles he faced including:
a. His age/youthfulness (but remember [bible]1 Timothy 4:12[/bible])
b. His power and position
c. His family background (see [bible]2 Kings 17:1-2[/bible])
5. What are some of the obstacles we might face that would hinder our resolve? What can we do about them?
6. Hezekiah did not only resolve to do right: ?He trusted in (or relied on) the Lord God of Israel . . .? ([bible]2 Kings 18:7[/bible])
a. What?s the significance of this phrase in this context?
b. What is the problem with ?resolving? only?
i. See: [bible]Galatians 3:1-3[/bible] (note especially v. 3)
ii. A transforming insight from [bible]Galatians 5:22-23[/bible]regarding the fruit of the Spirit.

Stage Two: Stepping Right

1. Resolving to start the New Year right is only just that: a good start.
a. Eventually one must move beyond starting/resolving stage and into the stepping/action stage
b. An illustration: see [bible]Joshua 3:14-17[/bible]
2. Hezekiah?s right start was followed by his taking some right steps including:
a. Moving away from/eliminating that which was evil and wrong ([bible]Joshua 18:4[/bible])
i. Recognition and confession of past wrongs (see [bible]2 Chronicles 29:6[/bible])
ii. Cleaning house (see [bible]2 Chronicles 29:15-16[/bible])
b. Moving towards/following after that which was good and right ([bible]2 Chronicles 18:6[/bible]; [bible]2 Chronicles 18:29-31[/bible])
i. He re-opened the house of God?[bible]2 Chronicles 29:3[/bible]
ii. He set a good example?[bible]2 Chronicles 29-30[/bible]
iii. Overall, Hezekiah did what was good, right, and true?[bible]2 Chronicles 31:20[/bible]
3. The ?push/pull? principle
a. Stepping away/stepping towards (here)
b. Cast off/put on ([bible]Romans 13:12-14[/bible])
c. Flee/follow ([bible]2 Timothy 2:22[/bible])
d. Lay aside/be doers ([bible]James 1:21-22[/bible])
e. Resist/draw near ([bible]James 4:8[/bible])

Stage Three: Staying Right

1. Starting and stepping right are only half the battle; the real challenge comes with staying right long term.
2. Hezekiah?s epitaph: ([bible]2 Chronicles 18:3[/bible]) and ([bible]2 Chronicles 18:5[/bible]; see also [bible]2 Chronicles 32:32-33[/bible]).
3. How is it possible that Hezekiah could ?stay right? his entire life? Our texts give us some indication as to how he accomplished this:
a. He held fast (or clung to) the Lord ([bible]2 Kings 18:6[/bible])
b. He was committed to knowing and obeying God?s commands ([bible]2 Kings 18:6[/bible])
c. He knew that the Lord was with him ([bible]2 Kings 18:7[/bible])
d. He knew that doing right was ultimately the path to blessing ([bible]2 Kings 18:7[/bible])
e. He was committed to worship ( see[bible]2 Chronicles 29:3[/bible],[bible]2 Chronicles 29-30[/bible])

I would not be the least bit surprised if something like this does live in the deepest jungles!

After all, there are many "living fossils" that were once thought extinct for millions of years, only to be found in remote parts of the planet: http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008 ... is-ne.html

Teenagers can be a true sorce of discouragement in a family. Because when a teenager starts spouting off their words of "wisdom" they can cause parents to question God and themsleves - where did we go wrong with this child? we did everything we were supposed to do - we trained her up to love the Lord and now she rejects and questions evrything! Teenagers doubt everything - they doubt the existence of God, they doubt Gods power. My once upon a time teenage daughter (who now has two little girls of her own!) believed that she could tell lies and sneak out of the house and since God didn't strike her with a bolt of lightening or something, she "got away with it." I fixed her though - I put that age old curse on her...I told her that one day she would grow up and have children of her own and they were going to act just like her! Well now she has two - let's see how she handles them in ten or fifteen years! :lol:

I do not think that teenagers are naturally rebellious, but once Satan gets their attention they often become a source for destruction within the family. There is nothing on this planet that is worse than a teenager who thinks they know everything there is to know, and Satan uses that pride and vanity against them!

Amen PE - Preach it Brother :amen: :goodpost: These babies need to hear the MEAT of the Word - let's hope they have not bitten off more than they can chew!!!

Here is how it SHOULD have been done:

[tube]bM5AGCexFK4[/tube]

Ok Seth,

I'll spell it all out for you.

From Mirriam Webster's dictionary:::::::::::::::::::

Main Entry: di

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Satan can make himself look like a little green man from mars, a big giant bug eyed space alien, or even the "Queen of Heaven" if he wants to - it is all part of his tricks to get humans distracted from their true purpose in life, which is to glorify God!