Calvary

That video is much edited. I mostly agree with Mr Reidhead. Today the teaching is often "Come to Jesus if you want to go to heaven" or alternatively, "Come to Jesus if you don't want to go to hell." That is false teaching. We come to Jesus and repent, because we have sinned against a Holy and awesome God who cannot abide sin.

Full transcript of Ten Shekels and a shirt. here http://www.parisreid...org/paris.shtml

The essence of the entire message of Ten Shekels and a Shirt, is the 7 minutes or so on the audio clip. But you nailed it, say a prayer and everything will be great! The message was more an indictment upon the preaching establishment that had shifted the purpose of preaching the gospel to satisfy men rather than God. I don't think it was meant so much as a rebuke for anyone who came to Christ under that styled preaching. The "soul winners fundamentalism" style of preaching. At least that is how I've understood that message all these years.

God bless,
calvary

@ Seth:

Good post. Concerning the OP God did not send his son to die for mankind in order to get glory.

I think that is a completely provable false statement. You might want to rethink that one.
What do we do with John12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

or John17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

To think that the end goal of God is to make you happy is just what the short sound clip was talking about. It's humanism.

Christ DID die for the "happiness" of man. That is not humanism it is bible. John 3:16 should prove that as do many other scriptures.

I am interested in hearing how John 3:16 is speaking of my happiness in a more direct way instead of some derivative way. I thought that John 3:16 would speak more directly to the way in which God has loved us, through the death of His Son, who by His death has glorified the Father.

The audio clip did not deny that men can have peace, joy, love, and all other things that men desire. It simply stated that the goals of preaching the gospel has changed much over the generations, from lifting up the greatness of God to appealing to the satisfaction of man's basic needs, which is of course man centered. Interesting repsonses.

God bless.
calvary

The premise of what this holiness preacher of old is speaking. He is Paris Reidhead, and was a Missionary and Christian Alliance preacher/missionary to Africa.

God bless,
calvary

Lev 10:3; Is 26:15; Is 44:23; Is 49:3; Is 60:20; Is 61:3; Is 66:5; Ez 28:22; Ez 39:13; Hag 1:8; Mat 9:8; Mat 15:31; Mark 2:12; Lk 4:15; Lk 5:26; Lk 7:16; Lk 23:47; Jn 7:39; Jn 11:4; Jn 12:16; Jn 12:28; Jn 15:8; Jn 17:14; Jn 17:10; Acts 3:13; Acts 4:21; Acts 21:20; Gal 1:24; 2 Th 1:10; 2 Th 1:12; 1 Pet 4:11; 1 Pet 4:14

Gee I don't know. I guess out of thin air.

Wow. Some folks will defend their foolishness to the extreme. God's glorification in our lives, in the world, in the universe and in eternity. That's what it's all about ultimately. In the end there is nothing else worth doing. If it isn't glorfying God, then what is it?

God bless

Smelled calvinistic to me. If you're not a calvinst, my appologies. I set up no 'straw man', sir.

Smells calvinistic? The glory of God is a calvinistic doctrine? Since when?

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


That's up in eternity. God being glorified by every class of person.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.


That's up in eternity. God being glorified by all. He is to be glorified. That ain't calvinism my friend, that's simple BIble.

Your supposed heretic hunting falls flat. Calvinsim smalvinism, the BIble is clear that God eternal desires are to be glorified by His creation. That''s not baptist dogma or reformed theology, that is simply quoting the BIble. Wow, and you somehow found fault with it? Takes all kinds to make a world.

God bless,
calvary

Calvary,
Because a self serving god is the god of the "reformed" calvinistic agenda. It'sthe same thing they push. "God seeking His own glory" may appear to be innocent, appears to be right, may sound good but it's part of a false gospel of a false Christ with a false glory, and those who propagate it may seem right as well. but they are false teachers. 2 corinthians 11: 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.Romans 1: 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. ''Another Jesus" is worse than idolatry. The next step. after they convince you that "God is only interested in glory" is that his predetermining of some folks to go to Hell for the glory of it is righteous and good but our finite minds are incapable of comprehending that. Liars! I suppose the aztec priests taught their devotees that Huizilopchitli was righteous and good right before they ripped their hearts out, huh? The Bible says that man KNOWS what's good and what's evil.

I don't know why you would take my post and then make it a rant against Calvinism. I never inidcated anything about the tenants of John Calvin. I posted over 20 verses however that clearly state that God is in fact concerned about His glory. I never offered any singular purpose as to why, that is your conjecture and caviling.
I am convinced that God is passionate about His glory. I am convinced of that because that is what the Bible tells me, not what some "they" convinced me of.

To me your statements appear as if God is as one dimensional as you are. There are a myriad of things the Lord care about. His glory being one of them. My joy? Sure. But I am not convinced that that is His principle purpose. I am at a loss over your argument. No one even suggested that God doesn't care for our joy, our lives, our fellowship... etc. You made it a straw man and then argued against your own construct. Wow.

God bless.
calvary

Word Origin & History

fame

late 13c., "celebrity,renown," from O.Fr. fame, from L. fama "talk, rumor, report,reputation," from PIE base *bha- "to speak, tell, say" (cf. Skt. bhanati "speaks;" L. fari "to say;" Arm. ban, bay "word, term;" O.C.S. bajati "to talk, tell;" O.E. boian "to boast," ben "prayer, request;" Gk. pheme "talk,"

If you or I went around our region raising the dead, and healing the sick, we would be on the six O'clock news the very first day. But that isn't the reason I highlighted the word. Jesus didn't come for that; he came to "seek and to save that which was lost".and He went to the cross "for the Joy set before Him". he wants to fellowship with us; if that were'nt the case, He would not live IN our hearts. His "pleasure" is to "give us the kingdom" and that "kingdom" is "peace and joy in the Holy Ghost".

And your point is? Is reknown something other than make known? Are you saying I am at fault in something I said? What is the point of taking issue with what has been said on this thread thus far? What exactly are taking issue with? Did someone say that God is not interested in having communion with His creation? Was it suggested that the Lord is one dimensional and can only have one purpose above all others? What is the real problem with God desiring worship? What is it that is bothering you about the scriptural fact that the Lord desires the fame of His glory be declared amongst the nations?

God bless,
Calvary

I've had these same questions. Calvary, I didn't *quite* understand what you meant, but it sounded good, I think. haha. Part of it, I have always just figured, has to do with our finite, sinful mind as opposed to God's mind. God says that the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God. So, down here, we are automatically turned off by someone who lifts themselves up and demands attention. However...that "wisdom" is foolishness...so many times in the Bible God does things or desires things against human logic. I've heard nonbelievers use the Old Testament and things God did as proof that Christianity is a violent religion. Again...God did a lot of things that we don't understand outside of just faith, and understanding the symbolism.

I think in a way, there is just something about God being eternal, the I AM, that is so great and wonderful that we can't really even grasp it...we have absolutely no earthly experience with anyone we respect enough to worship, so its hard to get our minds wrapped around God, I think.

Well, that's how I've explained it to myself, anyway. I will say it is difficult to worship God, as a sinful being.

The OP asked about God and His desire to be worshipped. I think that God has tailored a system that lends to His being worshipped because He is merciful. We praise HIm for His mercy, His goodness, whether it is through the direct action of God or through His administration (the church, the brethren, circumstances turned to our favor...)
I recalled reading the quote (apologies to heart for not offering it) and I thought it was Dr Charles Keen, not Piper. The issue is this. Does God recieve worship and in what forms? Does He arrange the affairs of men that no matter what, He is worshipped? That is fatalism, and I don't know about that. But I do know that the scriptures declare that God does in fact desire worship of His person. God does in fact intervene in the history of man to in fact be worshipped. He does so by demostrating His mercy. I find that to be a facinating dynamic. God's glory is manifested through His mercy to sinful men. Mind boggling stuff for me at least.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was culled from a message from Dr Charles Keen. Founder of Bearing Precious Seed, former pastor of 1st Baptist in MIlford OH, and now founder and global evangelist of First Missions International.

God bless,
Calvary

Hebrews 12
¹Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
²Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the fame? that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
³For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.


Is that what your Bible says?
That sounds strangely similar to the stuff they were pushing at the the IFB church we left a few months back. They were also reading the works of John Piper from the pulpit and passing them off as sermons, saying things like "God's main goal is His glory" and "Paul was chosen before he was born",

The whole theme of the Bible is Christ and His work on Calvary where He manifested Himself and His true glory. It does say that he despised the shame (opposite of glory), but His main purpose for going to that cross was "for the joy". Psalm 51 says ¹²Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.¹³Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. When the woman of Samaria was filled with the living water, it was joy bubbling over in her soul that made her tell others, the same with the wild man of Gadara and many others. Jesus and the Father already had glory 'before the world was".

Is there something wrong with the verses I cited? Are they not in the BIble?

How about these?

And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.

At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus,

And immediately his fame spread abroad throughout all the region round about Galilee.

And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

You shouldn't place modern defintions over KJB words. Fame simply means knowledge. And yes, the Bible clearly states that God does desire that his fame be spread amongst the nations.

The OP asked about the glory of God, I stated nothing that would detract from Jesus Christ as you seem toi intimate. Fame. A good Bible word.

God bless,
Calvary

God is passionately committed to his fame. God's ultimate goal is that his name be known and praised by all the peoples of the earth.
In Romans 9:17, Paul says that God's goal in redeeming Israel that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. In Isaiah 66:19, God promised that he would send messengers, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. I believe that the central command of world missions can be seen in Isaiah 12:4, "Make known his deeds among the peoples, proclaim that his name is exalted." And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.
The apostle Paul said that his ministry as a missionary was for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Romans 1:5
The apostle John said that missionaries are those who that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles. 3 John 7
James, the Lord's brother, described missions as how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. Act 15:14
Jesus described missionaries as those who leave houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake. Matthew 19:29.

God's passion to be known and praised by all the peoples of the earth is not selfish, but loving.
God is the one being in the universe for which self-exaltation is the ultimate loving act. And the reason is easy to see. The one and only truth in the universe that can fully and eternally satisfy the human heart is the glory of God -- the beauty of all that God is for us in Jesus. Perhaps the best way to see that God's passion for his fame is an expression of his love is to notice that God's mercy is the pinnacle of his glory. This is what he wants to be honored for above all else. You can see this in Romans 15:9 where Paul says that the reason Christ came into the world was so that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
Do you see how conviction #1 and #2 come together in that little phrase: "glorify God for his mercy"? God gets the glory, we get the mercy. God is praised, we are saved. God gets the honor, we get the joy. God is glorified for his fullness; we are satisfied with his mercy.
So to sum up there are two basic problems in the universe: God is profaned and people are perishing. Conviction #1 says that God will not suffer his name to be dishonored indefinitely, but will act to vindicate his name and glorify himself among the nations. Conviction #2 says that God has planned a way to do this by saving the perishing through the death of his Son, Jesus, and making them a worshipping people who enjoy his glory. In the sacrifice of his own Son for the sake of the nations, God reveals the pinnacle of his glory -- his mercy. So the salvation of the nations and the glorification of God happen together in missions. They are not at odds. It is a loving thing for God to pursue his glory like this.

God bless,
Calvary

can someone help me define biblical worldview, thanks

A Biblical world view is a philosophy of ministry. Your world view will be derived from your philosophy of ministry or you "outlook" on why you do what you do. Just substitute Biblical world view for philosophy of ministry.

A PHILOSPHY OF MINISTRY:

Introduction: The church’s philosophy of ministry gives the reason why ministry is done in the church. It doesn’t tell us specifically what we are to do, rather why we do what we do. The philosophy of ministry, which is based on Biblical truths, principles and commands, spells out God’s ways and means of doing His work in the church. Contrary to man’s ways, which are man centered, pragmatic, and doomed to fail, God’s ways will always lead to true spiritual growth in the church, and will be that which gives God the greatest glory. This paper was developed from many sources several years ago. It has served me in soliciting support as a missionary and I have forwarded this as a means of measuring how we have made the Bible the basis for all we do for the Lord.


A successful philosophy of ministry will always start with God.

Based on the Character of God

A biblical philosophy of ministry must be based on the moral character or attributes of God.

A Biblical philosophy of ministry is based upon the character of God’s goodness is demonstrated in a church that proclaims and practices his love, mercy and grace. God’s love deals primarily with the whole creation. This love is demonstrated in the provision of life and the means to enjoy it (Psalms 104:21-24). More prominently, though, is His love for the Elect. This is a special kind of love wherein He commits Himself to the object of His love to the fullest and richest sense (Ephesians 1:4-8). God’s mercy is revealed in His compassion and pity for those who are in misery and distress. The idea of withholding wrath from the deserving is pictured. A biblical philosophy of ministry directs the local church to see their relationship to God from this perspective of love, out of which they are to relate to one another and to the lost outside of the church.
A Biblical philosophy of ministry is based on the holiness of God. When a church is preaching and practicing the holiness of God it will repulse or attract people (2 Corinthians 2:14-17). The local church consists of people redeemed and set apart for Christ and from the world and is called to be holy (1 Peter 3:15-16). The local church, therefore, must see herself as being in the world but not of the world.
Thirdly, a biblical philosophy of ministry demonstrates the righteousness of God. All the manifestations of the holy character of God are righteous. The former furthers sanctification and the latter leads to repentance and confession of sin. This implies just judgment upon all wrong doers, thus, striking fear in the heart of men, both believers and unbelievers (Psalms 89:4). Within the local church this means fairness and discipline (James 2:1-7), while outside of the church it means to stand against the injustices of society (Matthew 14:4).






Based on the Authority of Scripture

A biblical philosophy of ministry is based and founded on the authority of Scripture.

The character of God can only be known through His self-disclosure (Hebrews 1:3). Only through God’s revelation, the Bible, can He and His will be known (Deuteronomy 29:29). The Bible as the Word of God is both authoritative and relevant to the church.
There is no other authority for the life of the church outside of the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is the ultimate guide for planning, strategizing, the methodology, the theology and conceptualization of the ministries of the local church. The Bible is also relevant today. Although the Bible was written in time past it is not archaic and obsolete. Rather the universal principle truths found in it are eternal and transcends time, culture, language, and race and thus practical for the church today.

Based on a Proper View of Man

A biblical philosophy of ministry must have a proper and balanced view of man.

Humanity must be seen for what it is. The balanced and proper view is to see man as having a dual nature, one spirit and the other physical. In this dichotomy, each nature has its own need that a biblical church should and must meet. The spiritual nature of man is sometimes called the soul or heart which reflects its value as the image bearer of God and secondly as a fallen creature. Men are valued above the rest of Creation for he is created in God’s image (Genesis 9:6). This means the ability to reason, decide and act. These abilities go beyond the animal instinct to make decisions for survival rather on moral choices. The local church must see the value of humanity through the eyes of God. This image must be understood as now being corrupt (Ephesians 2:1-3). With Adam’s fall in the Garden this corrupted image has been passed on to all men (Romans 5:12). Man’s instinctive and natural response to God is rebellion.
Nevertheless, the Bible tells us of God’s love in redeeming men to Himself. It is the church’s duty to preach and proclaim the only truth that can remedy the fallen nature of man (Matthew 28:18-20). This truth is a reminder to the church not to be swayed by the interest of the general public or societal trends when it plans or strategize for ministry.
The church’s philosophy must also deal with the physical nature of man. This means meeting his physical needs (Matthew 25:35-36, also James 1:27). But one must be wise to discern the difference between a felt needs and real needs. There are needs that seem necessary but can be done without, needs like self fulfillment, peer acceptance and even companionship. Though good and beneficial they do not give hope, total fulfillment or develop a person’s well being. On the other hand, there are needs that must be met to bring well-being and maturity to a person (Colossians 1:28). Needs of the emotional and educational kind, must be met with capable counseling and training ministries within the church (1 Thessalonians 5:15).






Based on a Proper Purpose of the Church

The means to meeting the church’s purpose of glorifying God is by exalting Him, evangelizing the lost, exemplifying His values and edifying the believers.


Exalt God
The first purpose of the church is to glorify God.

Jesus said, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind” (Matthew 22:37). Our love for God is revealed in our obedience to Him (John 14:15). We exalt God by fully committing our lives to Him in obedience (1 Peter 2:12). Our personal or corporate time of worship is merely the sum and culmination of our whole life being committed to loving God with all of our hearts, mind and soul.
A biblical worship service meets the criteria for a God-centered worship, which also reveals the local church’s spiritual health. First, biblical worship is theo-centric and not anthropo-centric. The doctrines, songs, practices centers on and around the elevation of God, His character and work. Secondly, worship is Christ Centered. The head of the church is Jesus Christ. He is the only mediator between man and God.
Every message, song and activity done in a worship service continually points to the primacy of Jesus Christ. Thirdly, it is worship that edifies the saints (1 Corinthians 14). The church gathers primarily for the edifying of the believers. The worship service must meet the need of the body to be edified. This is met through systematic expository preaching, songs that uplift the spirit and the soul and fellowship that reveals God’s love through the members (Act 2:42).
Thirdly, biblical worship is relevant. Worship must be flexible to its culture and time.

God bless,
calvary

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

I am an individual and I am the elect. I am to put on the bowels of mercies, be kind., humble in mind, be meek, and longsuffering. To state these characteristics are indicative of groups only is to make nonsense of the passages.
I am the elect. I am in Christ.

I know my election of God. It was individually applied to me the moment I believed, not as a group, but personnaly.

God bless,
Calvary

Wrong. the only individuals referred to as "elect" (in the NT at least) are Christ and "the Elect Lady", whoever that is.

Uhmm...

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Paul went to great lengths to demostrate that the position of the Christian in Christ is on the same level as that of the Jew in God's plans. Where either of you (SFIC or Heart) can't see that Christians in the Body of Christ are as well elect is beyond me.

God bless,
Calvary

Not very good. Thank you for asking. He retired in 2008 (don't know if you knew that) He has great difficulty in speaking these days due to the ALS. He does have a blog. Ken Blue's Blog.

God bless,
Calvary

Ohh. Thanks. I was wondering.

God bless,
Calvary

Sorry, I didn't tag this postt for follow up. Nope. I guess we didn't need it.

God bless,
Calvary

May the Lord enrich your ministry for your willingness to be used for His glory. Thank you for the hearing aides. God's timing is always an amazing thing! We just had a door of opportunity open here that I have never seen in the 14 yrs we have worked in Mexico. An Casa de Ancianos (Old Persons Home) has just come under our care. Hearing Aides anyone!? Sure, ...

God bless
Calvary

Lesson One gave a brief overview of some major Bible themes and how true Christianity is not the same as vain religion. Lesson Two declared WHAT each person must have— Jesus Christ—and the need to move from the ‘have not’ group to the ‘have’ group. This lesson gives 10 proofs WHY a person needs Jesus.

Why you need Jesus: THE CREATOR

Scripture declares: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God…” (Old Testament, Psalm 14:1; Psalm 53:1). Only a fool would say that God does not exist! Not only does He exist, but all other ‘gods’ are false: “…The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.” (Old Testament, Jeremiah 10:11)

The Bible describes the Creator:

“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting[eternity past to eternity future], thou art God.” (Old Testament, Psalm 90:2)

“Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.” (Old Testament, Psalm 106:48)

Here is an interesting Scripture passage found in Deuteronomy:

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD”
(Old Testament, Deuteronomy 6:4)

“God [‘Elohiym’—plural of the Supreme God] is one [‘echad’—united] LORD[‘Yehovah’—Self-existent, eternal].” As the words of the original Hebrew language reveal, the true God is self-existent, eternal and ‘one.’ His is not a singular oneness, but rather a plural oneness. He is three inone. This is borne out in numerous passages. Here are just a few:

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word(‘the Word’ is Jesus: John 1:1-14, pg. 127), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” (1^st John 5:7, pg. 332)

Jesus said: “I and my Father are one.” (John 10:30, pg. 145; See also John 8:19, pg. 141)

Jesus said: “…he that seeth me seeth ________ [the Father] that sent me.” (John 12:45, pg.150)

“For in him [Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead [God’s three-in-oneness] ___________.” (Colossians 2:9, pg. 280)

“But to us there is but ______ God, the Father, of whom are _____ things, and we in him; and _____ Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are _____ things, and we by him.” (1^st Corinthians 8:6, pg.239)

Jesus “…is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were _____ things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: _____ things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him _____ things ____________ [are set or held together].” (Colossians 1:15-17, pg. 279)

Lesson One showed that God is the ‘first cause’ of all things. The above passages confirm that Jesus Christ was the physical manifestation of the unseen God—“God manifest [shown forth] in the flesh.” (1^st Timothy 3:16, pg. 291)

Why you need Jesus: THE CREATION

Just as there can be no painting without a painter, or no design without a designer, there can be no creation without a Creator! And, just like a painter puts his signature in the corner of the canvas, God put His ‘signature’ on the whole of His creation! The three-in-one God made a three-in-one universe [‘uni’ means ‘one’].A simple example is the book you hold in your hand. It is matter, existing in time and taking up an amount of space. If time or space ceased to exist, so would the book! You cannot have one without the other:

“In the beginning [time] God created the heaven [space] and the earth [matter].” (Old Testament, Genesis 1:1)

“Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being ________________ by the things that are made, even his eternal power and ___________; so that they are without excuse:” (Romans 1:19-20, pg. 213)

No one will be able to stand before God someday and say, “I never knew you existed.” The clearly seen evidence of His amazing creation will leave them without excuse.

Why you need Jesus: THE FIRST CREATURE

As a representative figure of God’s tri-unity, the first human was also tri-une—one man, comprised of spirit, soul and body:

“And God [singular] said, Let us [The Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit spoke with one another] make man[singular] in our [plural] image, after our likeness:So God created man in his ownimage, in the image of God created he him;” (Old Testament, Genesis 1:26-27)

“For the word of God [the Bible] is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow[body], and is a discerner of the ____________ and ___________ of the ___________.” (Hebrews 4:12, pg. 303)

Why you need Jesus: THE INHERITANCE

You may know the story of the first man, Adam. God created aperfect world and a particular dwelling place for Adam and his wife—the Garden of Eden. God willingly loved them and they willingly loved God. If you truly love someone you will prove your love by doing right by that person, because “actionsspeak louder than words.” God proved His love by providing for them, giving them purposeful things to do, and communing with them. He gave them one simple command to keep:

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely [‘very suddenly’] die.” (Old Testament, Genesis 2:16-17)

You may know the rest of the story: “…she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat” (Genesis 3:6). When they ate, they ‘very suddenly’ died. Their body didn’t die that day—they physically lived many more years and had numerous children. Their soul didn’t die thatday (the body is just the ‘tent’ in which the soul resides). It was their spirit—their ‘God connector’—that died that day:

“Wherefore, as by one man [Adam] ______ entered into the world, and _________ by sin; and so death ___________ upon ______ men, for that all have sinned:” (Romans 5:12, pg. 218)

“…the body without the spirit is dead...” (James 2:26, pg.317)

“And you, being dead in your sins…” (Colossians 2:13, pg. 280)

Each descendant of Adam is composed of body, soul and spirit:

You are conscious of the material world with your body through sight,smell, hearing, taste and touch. You are conscious of self and others with your soul, throughimagination, conscience, memory,reason and affections. You werecreatedto be conscious of God with the spirit through faith, hope, reverence, prayer and worship.However, because of the inheritancefrom Adam,the spirit does not function properly on its own—it is dead, and the connection with God broken. This is proven by the fact that we expend our energies living for wrong purposes or goals; we worship or place our faith in wrong things; we pray to someone or something that cannot save us. This spiritual disconnection from God explains why there are so many and varied religions in the world. Through them people search in vain for their greatest need.

One writer said it this way: “In his unfallen state the ‘spirit’ of man was illuminated from Heaven, but when the human race fell in Adam, sin closed the window of the spirit, and pulled down the curtain, and the ‘chamber of the spirit’ became a death chamber, and remains so in every unregenerate heart, until the Holy Spirit floods that chamber with the ‘Life’ and ‘Light’ giving power of the NEW LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. We see then why the ‘natural’ man cannot understand ‘spiritual’ things. He cannot understand them until his spiritual nature has been renewed.”(From “Rightly Dividing the Word” by Clarence Larkin, pg. 88)

It was not God’s will for the human race to remain in that spiritual deadness and darkness:

Jesus said: “…I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” (John 8:12, pg.141)

Jesus said: “I am come a light into the world, that whosoeverbelieveth on me should not abide in darkness.” (John 12:46, pg.150)

God desires to deliver every person from the:

“…power of darkness…into the kingdom of his dear Son” and “…from the wrath to come.” (Colossians 1:13, pg. 279; 1^st Thessalonians 1:10, pg. 283)

As descendants of Adam and Eve, we all have a spirit which is “…dead in trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1, pg. 269). Missing the spiritual life of God, we are two-in-one, just body and soul, with a dead spirit. This incomplete image is revealed by a frequently overlooked Bible passage:

“And Adam…begat a son in his own likeness, afterhisimage; andcalled his name Seth:” (Old Testament, Genesis 5:3)

Adam was originally in God’s image, but then he disobeyed. As a result, all of us are born—no longer in God’s image, but like Seth—“after his [Adam’s] image.” If you pass into eternity without obtaining Jesus Christ as your very own, you will forever be lacking that spiritual life and connection to God:

“…if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”(Romans 8:9, pg. 221)

Why you need Jesus: THE CURSE ON THE EARTH

Something else happened the day Adam sinned. You may know that ‘act of God’ is a legal term used for disastrous events outside of human control, for which no one can be held responsible.But in reality, the earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis and other ‘natural’ disasters which occur are the responsibility of one man, Adam. Not only did sin and death become the inheritance of the entire human race, the whole earth was also cursed because of his disobedience:

“And unto Adam he [God] said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;” (Old Testament, Genesis 3:17-18)

“The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed [crossed over, overrun] the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”(Old Testament, Isaiah 24:4-6; See also Romans 8:20-22, pg. 221.)

These and other evidences of sin and the curse will become more frequent andintense as Jesus’ 2^nd coming draws nearer.

“For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers [various] places. All these are the beginning of sorrows [birth pangs].” Matthew 24:7-8, pg. 37)

Why you need Jesus: THE EVIDENCE

Because it is hidden deep within, no one but God can see that your spirit is dead. But God—in His grace—provided further proof of the inherited sin-sickness, spiritual death and need for Jesus Christ. This spiritual need might be compared to the physical. Suppose you are not feeling well, so you go for a check-up. A few days later the doctor shows you test results revealing ten clear indications of a deadly disease. Once you see the horrible evidence, you greatly desire the healing treatment, and you appreciate the doctor for bringing your condition to light. Although the bad news may have been ‘hard to swallow,’ it was necessary to understand the seriousness of the problem, which then caused you to yearn for a cure. In the same way, God, bygiving the Ten Commandments, gave clear evidence of the inheritance of sin anddeath from Adam:

“Whosoever committeth _______ transgresseth also the law: for _______ is the ___________________ [overrunning] of the law.” (1^st John 3:4, pg. 330)

Every mentally aware person knows the difference between right and wrong. This is because the God of the Bible, Who created us, put His Ten Commandments in ourhearts:

“Which shew the work of the law written in their ___________, their ________________ also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)” (Romans 2:15, pg.215)

Carefully review the Ten Commandments to see which ones you have broken. Since God knows all things (1^st John 3:20, pg. 331), He sees not only the act but also “…the thoughts and intents of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12, pg. 303).

Exodus 20:3-17

1. THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment” (Matthew 22:37-38)
2. THOU SHALT NOT MAKE UNTO THEE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE
“…these men have set up their idols in their heart…” (Ezekiel 14:3) “…covetousness, which is idolatry:” (Colossians 3:5)
3. THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORDTHY GOD IN VAIN
“…how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.” (Matthew 12:34)
4. REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY
[sabbath: “rest”] “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.” (Hebrews 4:10-11) “…an evil heart of unbelief…” (Hebrews 3:12)
5. HONOUR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER
“…He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4)
6.THOU SHALT NOT KILL
“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer…” (1^st John 3:15)
7. THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
“…whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” (Matthew 5:28)
8. THOU SHALT NOT STEAL
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within…” (Mark 7:21-23)
9. THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS [LIE] AGAINST THY NEIGHBOUR
“…why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie…?” (Acts 5:3) “…all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)
10. THOU SHALT NOT COVET ANY THING THAT IS THY NEIGHBOUR'S
“…for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.” (Ezekiel 33:31)

Foolishly, religion tells you to “do the best you can” to keep the Commandments. But again, compare the spiritual to the physical. Suppose you worked hard outside all day, and then came inside to look in the mirror. The mirror’s purpose would only be to reveal that you are dirty and need cleansing. You might then take a bath. But to “do the best you can” would be like taking the mirror off the wall and attempting to clean yourself with it! Contrary to religion, God’s purpose for the Law was simply to show the need for cleansing by the Messiah, Jesus Christ (see Galatians 3:24-26, pg. 265).

Religion also treats the Commandments like a ten-rung ladder you must climb in an attempt to get to God. But again, that is not their purpose. Rather, God gave the Ten Commandments to reveal that the whole ‘ladder’ is broken:

“For whosoever shall keep the whole _______, and yet offend in_______ point, he is guilty of _______.” (James 2:10, pg. 316)

Why you need Jesus: SIN AND DEATH

“As it is written, There is ________ righteous, no, not _______:”(Romans 3:10, pg. 216)

“They are _______ gone out of the way, they are ______________ become unprofitable; there is _________ that doeth good, no, _______ one.” (Romans 3:12, pg. 216; See also Old Testament, Psalm 14:1-3; Psalm 53:1.)

“For _______ have sinned, and come short of the _________ ofGod;” (Romans 3:23, pg. 216; See also Romans 3:9, pg. 216.)

Sin is breaking the Commandments which isevil, and evil could not dwell with God:

“For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.” (Old Testament, Psalm 5:4)

Sin separated us from God because God is holy, perfect, and morally pure in character:

“But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, andyour sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” (OldTestament, Isaiah 59:2)

One of the signs of Jesus’ 2^nd coming is that sin (including false Bible teaching) will increase greatly:

“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;” (2^nd Timothy 3:1-4, pg. 296)

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers [promoters of falseBible teaching] among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” (2^nd Peter 2:1, pg. 326; See also 2^nd Timothy 4:1-3, pg. 296; 2^nd Peter 3:3,pg. 327; 1^st John 2:18, pg. 329; Jude 1:18, pg. 335.)

Why you need Jesus: THE PENALTY DESERVED

God instilled two moral principles within each one of us: the principle of ‘sowing and reaping’ and the principle of ‘law and justice.’ When you do well, you expect a good result. When you do wrong, you expect punishment. But when you do well and the result is negative, you sense an injustice has been done. Conversely, when evildoers are not punished, you perceive an injustice has been done. But God is always just, and always does what is right. He required a punishment for breaking His Commandments:

“For the wages of _______ is _________; but the ________ of God is eternal _______ through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23, pg. 219)

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
(Old Testament, Ezekiel 18:4)

According to God, death is the only satisfactory payment for sin. That is why any religious effort is offensive to God:

“…all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags…”
(Old Testament, Isaiah 64:6)

In other words, sacrifices, trying harder, going to church, getting water baptized, sacraments, praying prayers, asking for forgiveness, denying yourself, giving

money, and all other ‘religious righteousness’ offends God.

The death God demanded for sin was not only the death of the spirit in the Garden of Eden, but will also be a never-ending death of the body and soul—if you pass away without Jesus:

“And fear not them which kill the _________, but are not able to kill the _________: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28, pg. 14)

The end of earthly life is just the beginning of an unending existence! To the person without Jesus Christ, his or her eternal problems have just started:

“And I saw the ________, small and great, _________ before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the ________ were ___________ out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” (Revelation 20:12, pg. 356)

“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was _______ [thrown down] into the lake of fire.”
(Revelation 20:15, pg. 356)

“The Son of man shall send forth his __________, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall _______ them into a furnace of fire: there shall be ___________ and ____________ of teeth.”
(Matthew 13:41-42, pg. 20)

“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for _______ and _______: and they have no ________ day nor night, who worship the beast [anti-Christ] and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark [666] of his name.” (Revelation 14:11, pg. 349)

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the ___________ death.” (Revelation 21:8, pg. 356)

The Bible declares that everyone deserves to go to hell. The ‘second death’ is the death of the body and soul—eternal suffering and pain which will never end.

Why you need Jesus: THE PENALTY PAID

Although the sin of Adam and Eve passed upon each one of us, God is love. “Actions speak louder than words,” and He proved that love by taking action. In the most amazing act of love the world has ever known, God came to earth and took on a body. God, in the person of Jesus Christ, died for all sins as your substitute. The prophet Isaiah foretold the event more than 700 years before it happened:

“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORDhath laid on him the iniquity of us all.” (Old Testament, Isaiah 53:5-6)

The following Psalm was written hundredsof years before crucifixion was inventedby the Romans:

“For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.” (Old Testament, Psalm 22:16-18. See also John 19:23-24, pg. 160.)

Before his conversion to Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul was a religious zealot andmurderer of those who had Jesus. He records the fulfillment of these prophecies:

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our ________ according to the scriptures; And that he was _________, and that he ________ again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1^st Corinthians 15:3-4, pg.246)

“For he [God] hath made ______ [Jesus]to be sin for us, who knew _____ sin; that _____ [sinners] might be made the ____________________ of God in him.”
(2^nd Corinthians 5:21, pg. 254)

The Apostle Peter also:

“For Christ also hath once suffered for ________, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to __________ in the flesh, but quickened [made alive again] by the Spirit:” (1^st Peter 3:18, pg. 323)

Religions require their followers to keep trying until they’ve done enough. But Jesussaid, “It is finished:” (John 19:30, pg. 160)

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ­________ for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can _________ take away sins: But this man [Jesus], after he had offered ______ sacrifice for sins for ________, sat down on the right hand of God… (14) For by _____ offering he hath ___________________ for ______ them that are sanctified [made holy, through faith in Jesus].” (Hebrews 10:10, 11, 12, 14, pg. 309)


Why you need Jesus: HIS LIFE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS

The problem is not a lack ofreligion, but rather a lack of life and righteousness!

In him [Jesus] was ________; and the life was the light of men. (John 1:4, pg. 127)

He [any person] that believeth on the Son hath everlasting _______: and he that believeth not the Son shall ______ see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36, pg. 131)

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have _________ it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal ________, which was with the Father, and was _____________ unto us;)”(1^stJohn 1:1-2, pg. 328)

“For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the _____________ of God in him.”(2^ndCorinthians 5:21, pg. 254; See also Romans 3:22; 2^nd Peter 1:1, pg. 325)

A nation that has a negative financial balance is considered ‘in the red.’ If the account is not reconciled, the following generation inherits that burden of debt. In the same way, we inherited a negative balance of sin and death from Adam and were ‘in the red’ of sin. The whole world needed Jesus. But God foretold of a clearing of the ‘balance sheet’:

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as whiteas snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”
(Old Testament, Isaiah 1:18)

The only way to be justified (found ‘not guilty’ of sin) and have the debt forgiven would be through Jesus’ blood:

“But God commendeth [exhibited] his __________ toward us, in that, while we were yet ____________, _________ ________ for us. Much more then, being now justified [found innocent] by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the _________ of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his _________.” (Romans 5:8-10, pg. 218)

“In whom we have ________________ [ransom in full] through his __________, the _________________ of sins, according to the riches of his __________;”(Ephesians 1:7, pg. 268; See also Colossians 1:14, pg. 279.)

“And, having made _________ through the ­­__________ of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.” (Colossians 1:20, pg. 279)

“And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and _________ us from our _______ in his own __________,”
(Revelation 1:5, pg. 336; See also Revelation 7:14, pg. 343.)

A blood sacrifice to temporarily cover sin has always been required (Old Testament: Exodus 30:10, Leviticus 17:11; 2^nd Chronicles 29:24; See also Hebrews 9:11-16, pg. 308; Hebrews 10:1-5, pg. 309). Remember the mirror? It only showed you needed cleansing. The onlything that could ultimately cleanseaway sin would be an eternally acceptable blood sacrifice. That is why God shed His blood (Acts 20:28, pg. 198) and died in your place. Rising from the dead, Jesus proved who He is and proved that He accomplished what He came to do:

“And ______________ to be the Son of God with power, accordingto the spirit of holiness, by the __________________ from the _________:” (Romans 1:4, pg. 213)

“But for us also, to whom it shall be _____________ [credited to your personal account], if we ___________ on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was ___________ again for our _____________________ [acquittal for Christ's sake].” (Romans 4:24-25, pg.218)

Your sin debt has been fully paid by God. But to be with God when earthly existence ends, you must also have a ‘positive balance’ in your ‘account’—the eternal life of God and the righteousness (sinless perfection) of God. If you do not have Jesus, you do not yet have these two gifts that God offers:

“For if by one man's [Adam’s] offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of _______________________ shall reign in _________ by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgmentcame upon all men to condemnation; even so by the __________________________ of one the ________ gift came upon all men unto justification of _______.”(Romans 5:17-18, pg. 218)

“That as _______ hath reigned unto __________, even so might grace reign through ____________________ unto eternal ________ by Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 5:21, pg. 218)

“And therefore it was _____________ [credited] to him for __________________. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, ___ we _____________ on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;” (Romans 4:22-24, pg. 217; See also Romans 4:7-8, pg. 217)

“…Jesus Christ the ____________________:” (1^st John 2:1, pg. 328)

Some false teachers say that Jesus died for only a select few. But Jesus died foreveryone including you:

“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which ____________ away the _______ of the __________.” (John 1:29, pg. 128; See also John 4:42, pg. 133, John 11:51-52, pg. 148, and 1^st John 4:14, pg. 331.)

“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the ___________ unto himself, ______ imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” (2^nd Corinthians 5:19, pg. 254)

“And he is the propitiation [satisfaction of a payment due] for our ________: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the ____________ world.” (1^st John 2:2, pg. 328)

SO WHY DO YOU NEED JESUS? Because once you have Him, the inherited spiritually dead image of Adam will be no more and you will be made spiritually alive; once again in the image of God and accounted with His righteousness:

“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [God in the flesh—Jesus Christ] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit.” (1^st Corinthians 15:45, pg. 248)

“Even as Abraham ____________God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” (Galatians 3:6, pg. 264)

“And you hath he [Jesus Christ] quickened [made spiritually alive again], who were dead [spiritually] in trespasses and sins;” (Ephesians 2:1, pg. 269)

“And have put on the ______ ______, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:[3 in 1]” (Colossians 3:10, pg. 281)

“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1^st Thessalonians 5:23, pg. 286)

Jesus Christ is WHAT you need. Sin and death is WHY you need Him. In Lesson 4 you will learn HOW to have Jesus for yourself.

For further study: WHY you need Jesus is also taught in the 13 New Testament Bible books written by the Apostle Paul, Romans through Philemon. You also need Jesus because of future events—revealed in the New Testament Bible book of Revelation.

I've read much about this over the years and there seems to be no actual proof Paul ever went to Spain or Britain. The idea that Paul actually went to one or both of these countries seems to have come about later and has been passed down as tradition by some.

If we go strictly by Scripture, there is no evidence Paul ever made it to Spain.

My question would be, Why do some think it important that Paul went to Spain or not? Would it prove any assertions that would further a doctrine be it false or true?

God bless,
Calvary

I could. If you would like tos end them to me, I will give you my personal info in a PM.

God bless,
Calvary

One good thing that comes form a long and twisted debate over a biblical topic is that many sides are heard. Pro, con, a few rabbit trails. My purpose is not to convince this heretic he is wrong, but to convince others that he is wrong in order to turn them away from a false teacher. This man is unrepentent when he is found to be a liar. In truth I could care less if he wanted to deprive a church of their duty to the minister. That is a personal choice. My desire is to teach the whole counsle of the word of God, not just snippets and out of context verses to those that seek God's leading in serving Him as a full time vocation. Dear brother or sister in Christ, care not for the railings of this fool who cares nothing for truth. If the Lord has called you, He has a great plan to provide for you. It's called the local church. He has established clearly in His word that local churches will and should colabor with you in your calling. Fear not! His provision is timely and always in abundance. He has said you are worth DOUBLE HONOR and He will take care of your needs. Though, sadly, he will probably not be able to use this prattling fool who has deemed any pastor who recieves a stipend as a beggar.

This thread which I thjink Ill lock now stands as a treatise to any one interested about what the BIble says over the provision and care of the full time worker.

Thank you all for a good and lively debate, thank you to those who contributed sound and logical scriptural arguements along the way. Iron sharpens iron and I am glad that we had this discussion.

SFIC, I am ashamed of you and for you as you would deny the brethren their due and like Judas who held the bag, refused to allow the Lord's generosity be seen as a blessing.

God bless,
Calvary

Sorry Calvary. But Paul clearly reveals it Acts and in Thessalonians that the elders are not supported by the Church.

He wouldn't tell Timothy the opposite. Honour in Timothy does not mean a salary no matter how much you wish it was.

Your argument isn't with me. It's with James Strong who said you are a liar telling us that the word "time" does not mean wages. Then there is the evidence of context. Honor for the widow is not respect but physical care. Double honor for the pastor is not double respect, it is double care. You continue as complete and total hack. You should just stop because every time you open your mouth on this thread you are proven to be a liar who twists passages and ignores clear evidence. You completey ignore your previous statement that the word "time" means honor and when faced with the Strong's definition of the word you prattle on as if you never read my post.

Sorry Standing Firm in Pride, you posted a false statement as fact, I called you on it and you admit no wrong. You have no integrity at all.

God bless,
Calvary

Had Paul meant the elders were worthy of a salary, he would have used the work "opsonion" in 1 Timothy 5:17. "Opsonion" is the Greek word for wages. Paul did not use that word, he used the word "time", which means honor, respect.

It may or may not be my business how other Churches handle their pastors, but it is the pastor's responsibility to support himself and the weak, not the other way around according to the Word of God.

More slecetive authorities. You failed to present any evidence for the word "time". Any one reading this thread can open E-sword, use the KJV+ module and see that the word means the following:

G5092
τιμή
timē
tee-may'
From G5099; a value, that is, money paid, or (concretely and collectively) valuables; by analogy esteem (especially of the highest degree), or the dignity itself: - honour, precious, price, some.

Again SFIC, the scriptures do not support you false teaching that full time pastors are to all work their own secular jobs. You are reading into Acts 20 what you want it to say. It could just as easily be taken to mean that I should work like every one in the flock, cleaning the church, building the church, knocking the doors of my community. It simply means do not live a life of do as I say but not as I do.

1 Timothy 5 is a chapter that is absolutley about how to treat the people in the church. If a widow is worthy of HONOR and the context is about CARING for her PHYSICAL needs, then how can DOUBLE HONOR in the same passage, same chapter, same context be only esteem? You are a rank hypocrite and a false teacher and should be shunned by all on this board for your crooked paths that you teach. You deal dishonestly with passages, apply false conclusions, quote men instead of the Bible and everything else instead of simply saying, ya know, I guess I could be wrong on this.You have been proved wrong on this issue so many ways it is getting boring reading your cavils.

God bless,
Calvary

I have read it, and disagree. Especially in light of the fact that Paul instructed the elders/overseers of the Church to work with their hands so that they are chargeable to no man.

Calvary has taken those verses he used out of context. Paul was consistent in his teaching that the overseers of the Church were to work with their hands.

That application was line upon line. There was more context there than you can handle. I have said repeatedly, if you feel that you should deprive the church of what your own pet commentaries say is their duty to the pastor so be it. If you want to follow Paul's patten in the Corinthian church, fine. So be it. But do not hold up Paul's dealing with that church as a biblical norm. You sir, do great damage to sound exegesis. In fact, I wonder that you can even read with any comprehension at all after reading your posts. You are unstable in your demands for context. You quote Matthew 10 and demand the man of God go forth, taking no script, yet you wear shoes. You do not heal lepers, raise the dead or cast out demons yet you stand and declare that we should take no script. Typical cultish behaviour. Quote partial verses, build doctrines upon snippets of the word of God and then dig in your heels when called on it by citing extra biblical authorities. You are no better than a false Jehovah's Witness. You are a grade A hack. And I say that with charity.

Double honor is exactly what millions of christians for centuries have thought it is - more than fair treatment of the pastor. Your pet theories will not change that. In 1 Ti 5:3 Paul says that widows are worthy of honor. The context is in fact about how to treat people in the church. A widow who is a widow in truth will be cared for by the church. The word HONOR there is talking of nothing less than the financial care for her. Following the context of how to treat people in the church, Paul gets to the pastor. DOUBLE HONOR. If a widow is worthy of hepl, the apstor DOUBLE. Too bad SFIC that you cannot read in context or you would have seen that 1 Timothy 5 is talking about the care of a pastor.

God bless,
Calvary