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Everything posted by Calvary

  1. Hello. 46 people have read this request and not one can offer any advice?
  2. Can I have my thread John Calvin had it all wrong moved over to an area that is open to everyone? God bless, calvary
  3. C. Rom_8:29 - The Elements of "Foreknowledge" & "Predestination" "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." The statement is heard many times, "You cannot reconcile the sovereignty of God and the free will of man." This is not true--one can understand both. The confusion exists when one does not properly understand the meaning of foreknowledge and predestination. Foreknowledge is an attribute of God's omniscience. Primarily, foreknowledge had to do with persons and places, and predestination is centered in God's purposes. Foreknowledge contains ONE element, that is, knowing what is going to happen before it takes place. In relation to people and places, it does not contain the element of bringing it to pass or making it happen. Predestination, on the other hand, is different from fore-knowledge in that it contains TWO elements: One is the prediction (His omniscience) and the other is the act of God (His omnipotence) to bring it to pass. The confusion begins when one inserts meanings into a word which it does not con-tain. Remember, keep these two words separated as to their meaning. Foreknowledge has ONE element, that of foreknowing what is going to happen. Do not add any other meanings to this word, it contains one element only! Predestination has TWO elements; one is predicting, the other fulfilling. Again, predestination is related to God's purposes, foreknowledge is related to persons and places. In Rom_8:29 we are told: "For whom he (Christ) did foreknow..." This simply states that Christ knew ahead of time every person who would trust Him as their Savior. The word carries no other element which would impede the free will of a person to make their own choice. Every Christian who would be saved is foreknown of God. We also see that every Christian is going to be the recipient of what God is going to predestinate. "For whom he did foreknow (every Christian) He also did predestinate." He foreknew every person who would be saved. His purpose is seen in predestination as we are predestinated to what? "To be conformed to the image of his son." When will we be conformed to the image of God's Son? At the Rapture, of course! In Php_3:20-21 we are told: "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body." This is being conformed to the image of His Son. In 1Jn_3:2 we read: "Beloved, now are we the sons (Greek, TEKNON, children) of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that, when he shall appear (Rapture) , WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see him as he is." Predestination becomes very clear if we do two things: One, take exactly what the Scripture says and believe it. Two, know the difference between foreknowledge and predestination and add no other elements of meaning to them. Foreknowledge has one element while predestination has two. In summary: Rom_8:29 teaches the following according to predestination: WHO: Only the saved are predestinated, not the lost. WHAT: Christians are predestinated at some future time to "be conformed to the image of His Son." WHEN: At the Rapture. Php_3:20-21, and 1Jn_3:2. - Max Younce Clear, simple and irrefutable scripture to demonstrate that Calvinism, classic or any modern hybrids are just babble and nonsense. God bless, calvary
  4. Author Max Younce continues in his concise and direct exposé of Calvinism as a false belief system. B. Eph_1:11-12.- This Is Not Our Testimony "In whom also we have OBtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Notice the use of the word "we", a plural pronoun. Paul is including himself and all Christians. They have OBtained an inheritance. This identifies those who are predestinated for something as being already saved. We can see in Eph_1:12 what the Christian is predestinated to receive. What is predestinated is according to the Lord's purpose. He will also bring it to pass "after the counsel of his own will." "His own will" lets us know that God does not leave what He predestinated to be brought to pass by the volition or faithfulness of man. Therefore, we can rest assured... what God predestinated will come to pass! In summary: The saved are the recipients of being predes-tinated. It was God's purpose to do so and He will bring it to pass Himself. We are told in Eph_1:12 what is predestinated: "That we (Christians) should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." At first glance one may think this means it is God's will that every Christian should lead a separated life, which would be to the praise of His glory. This is certainly God's will for every believer (Rom_12:1-2). However, this cannot be the meaning of this verse, if taken in context, as the fulfillment of what was predestinated. If this were true, then it has not come to pass in every Christian's life. Remember, what God predestinates will, without exception, come to pass. The reason being, every Christian is the recipient of what is predestinated. Not every Christian leads a separated life. In fact, some Christians never lead a separated life from the time they are saved until they leave this earth! To what is this referring? It has reference to the event of the Rapture when, without exception, every Christian will be to the praise of His glory. The Bridegroom (Christ) is looking in expectation for His Bride (the Church). The Church (every believer) is looking for the Bridegroom to return and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This meeting is the fulfillment of what Christ predestinated for every believer. Remember--what is predestinated must come to pass. If "to the praise of his glory" meant leading a separated life, it may not come to pass, for all Christians are not yielding their lives to God's will. Christ never leaves what He predestinates to be fulfilled by the volition of man. By the determined will and power of God, the Rapture will fulfill every qualifying aspect of His predestination, "that we should be to the praise of His glory." Good stuff folks and I hope this is a help to many of you. God bless, calvary
  5. Dave Reese is prOBably one of the few men who have a true grasp of the BIG picture of right dividing. One truly awesome Bible teacher. God bless, calvary
  6. A. Eph_1:5 - Redemption Of The Body At The Rapture Let us begin with Eph_1:5… "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." Notice who is predestinated. It can only be one of two groups: the saved or the lost. Paul identifies the children of God as the OBject of being predestinated, "Having predestinated us (plural pronoun)." This is Paul and every saved person. God did not predestinate anyone to be saved, but this teaches He predestinated something for those who are already saved. What did God predestinate for the Christian? The Scriptures are pure and simple. The Christian is predestinated unto the adoption of children (Greek, HUIOTHESIA, meaning son ship). When we trust Christ as our Savior, we become His children: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons (Greek, TEKNON, meaning-a child.) of God, even to them that believeth on his name." - Joh_1:12 We are positioned in Heaven as a son now, but we do not come to the realization of our son ship until the Rapture. The Jewish Bar Mitzvah may aid in understanding adoption and son ship. Bar Mitzvah means "a son of the commandments, or the placing of a son." When a Jewish boy reaches the age of 13, he is then considered as a adult. He is expected to accept adult religious responsibilities. It is a joyful occasion accompanied by gifts from friends and family. He is no longer considered a child, but an adult son. The word "adoption" is derived from the Greek word "huiothesia," from "huios", meaning "a son" and "thesis" "a placing." Therefore, "the placing of a son." Just as a Jewish boy is placed as an adult son on the day he reaches 13, we Christians also experience our son ship when we are placed in Heaven at the day of the Rapture. This is when we have our physical bodies redeemed for a new glorified body. It could be no clearer than stated in Rom_8:23 : "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION, TO WIT, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY." In summary: WHO: Negative: Nowhere are the lost said to be predestinated to be saved. Positive: The saved are predestinated to receive something. WHAT: The Adoption. Rom_8:23, "the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." WHEN: At the Rapture. 1Th_4:17, 1Co_15:50-54. - Max Younce God bless, calvary That´s as clear as one could want. John Calvin´s theology is a blatantly false.
  7. Seems to me folks want to debate a bunch of things here, it also seemed to me a few months ago that I lamented the fact several posters here push an agenda of their false teachings and are not open to any other opinion about it. You can see them as being manifest by always trying to post the last word. I sort of miss the forum I signed onto several years ago. We would disagree, but over all, the postings were baptistic in heir stand, the fellowship was a lot better. Now it seems to me there are only factions. Calvinism is a blight upon the faith. It is a system of twisted scriptures, out of context surmising and a complicated maze of un-biblical words like SUPRALAPSARIANISM, INFRALAPSARIANISM, and who knows what else. I can´t even pronounce that clap trap let alone find it in the Bible. I´m gonna post a few chapters from a book I´ve had for some time. Simple, scriptural and I am not looking for responses, although feel free to write whatever you want, I am not debating, I am posting scriptural truth. I for one cannot suffer the utterly false system of doctrine known as Calvinism. I personally believe that its´s adherents are unsaved. You can argue that all you want. I´m trusting Christ and His finished work on Calvary. I have never trusted in any election to be saved. The Bible never asked me to put my faith in any election, be it foreknown or predestined. The word "predestination" comes from the Greek verb "proorizo." It means, according to Vine's Expository Words on the Greek New Testament, to "mark out beforehand, to determine before, foreordain." In essence, "predestination" means that something has been predicted by God and it must and will come to pass. The word "predestinate" as translated in the KJV is found only twice; that being in Rom_8:29-30. "Predestinated" is found only twice and that is in Ephesians; once in Eph_1:5 and once in Eph_1:11. These two words do not appear in the Old Testament. We shall examine who is predestinated, what event is predestinated and when it will take place. - Max Younce
  8. Romans 3 the word propitiation is a noun - it is not an action, it is a payment, a satisfaction. Christ PAID for our sins, he did not propitiate our sins, he was the propitiation, according to Romans 3
  9. Invigorating, educational, practical, motivational and just plain great Conference. If you have never been to one of these Leadership Conf, I would encourage you to go. Not only is it pretty good preaching, but the sessions all day and afternoon are just invaluable to the full time worker. Many dozens of real life full time workers who are sharing what has worked for them, why and what has and why. No puffed up shirts (at least I didn´t see it that way) but just genuine, sincere men of service trying to be a help to others get ahead in the ministry and do something for the Lord. Steve Chappel was to me the bright light. His church planters luncheon talk was spot on and really helped me. There were only about 70 of us in there and he was answered about a dozen hand written questions submitted by the men in that room. Really personal, genuine and practical. Pastor Navarette, the Spanish pastor had me into his office and over coffee gave me some great counsel as we are no longer going to serve in Mexico but start a Spanish ministry in California. One thing that really helped me to let me put my guard down was that I sensed the men who were speaking there truly had a desire to just be helpful to us. They were simply put "real". I´m going back next year Lord willing. God bless, calvary
  10. Dr Edward Hills, The King James Version Defended John Dean Burgon,The Revision Revised Dr Peter S Ruckman, Manuscript Evidence These 3 and you´ll be good to go. God bless, calvary
  11. I just mean that most times the fruit of the jail ministry doesn´t see its fullness in the church house on Sundays. Many say it´s a waste of time because the "saved convicts" never come to church. But not all ministry should find it´s fulfillment in the local church. You will mature, grow and bear fruit there, and you take that experience into life everywhere you go. That´s all I´m saying. Street preaching is the same. After preaching on streets in downtown for over 10 years, I can´t recall one person who ever came to our church. But I do know that many were saved, the gospel was planted in hearts and Christ was exalted in the public square. In addition, I have to say that in my own life it made me bolder for Christ, kept me sensitive to the needs of people, and gave me a compassion for souls that most Christians in the states never have. God bless, calvary
  12. I worked the jail ministry while a member of Open Door Baptist in the Seattle area. We worked the Snohomish County Jail, where we were able to preach to groups, many inmates sign up for church hour to hang out with their friends in other parts of the Jail. (I heard the gospel that way in California Youth Authority - that´s another story) We also worked the King County Jail where it was a one on one format. You could choose "pods" where you were allowed into the main area and could sit at a table until an inmate approached you. The chaplains are mostly ecumenical, but their jOB forces them to be due to laws made by reprOBate politicians. Even and IFB chaplain has to abide by all kinds of limitations. The key is to keep focused on the BIG picture, and with all due respect to my brethren here, the KJB is NOT the BIG picture in a Jail ministry. I liked the one on one. After a while if you are regular, you can influence a few men and teach them sound doctrine. They will be waiting for you to show up, your table will grow, other men will come around and check it out. Perhaps my own "street cred" made me a little more popular. If you bash other religions, they will weed you out. Jail ministry is rewarding, but it does not grow a church, neither does street preaching, but we should do it anyways. It will do more for you by sharpening your edge, giving you a heart fro people, give you compassion for lost folks that make stupid choices, teach you gratefulness for what you have, M;y friend in Battlecreek has a great Jail ministry, Pastor Randy Stewart. God bless, calvary
  13. Is that any where around Warren? There is the Antioch Baptist Church. On Dequindre Street if I remember. I visited there many years ago, George Crabb was the pastor then, I think he retired now. Praying you find a great church where you can glorify the Lord! God bless, calvary
  14. What part of Michigan are you in? I have several pastor friends scattered about the state. Nice to meet you, God bless, calvary
  15. Lots of twists and a major loss of consistency, which is what usually happens after 3 or 4 pages on a thread. It gets too demanding to follow as one wades through. In addition what you have is 1 or a couple of posters that dominate (nothing wrong with that, just saying) the conversation but they take on 2 or 3 other posters and it´s 1 guy arguing with 3 or 4 other guys over 2 or 3 other rabbit trails and the entirety continuity of the thread falls apart. 7 pages ago I asked you Mike where does the JCOC fit. You sort of played the importance of that down as if it really doesn´t matter. But i does. It matters so much that I have yet to receive an answer form any pre wrath, post trib position to date. You can´t place it in your scheme as it will demonstrate the fallacy of your position. So, I still would like an answer. Or at least encourage you to try to find it for yourself. If you did and do, you will dump the untenable potion you hold. When does the JCOC occur? In addition, I have not questioned your Christianity or salvation and neither has any one else here. You suggested that we question your IFB status, your faith etc. None of which is true. In fact I mad eit a point to say that I don´t question your integrity or character as I do not know you personally and that is and never has been an issue. I do wonder however why you seek to moderate a board that you are not in agreement with? Pre trib is the stated doctrinal position of this board. I also question why Matt has not weighed in on this OBvious conflict of interest. Pre trib, pre wrath, post trib are by no means tests of fellowship, or a true test of one´s relationship with the Lord. As a missionary I plant churches, then as they grow, mature and become autonomous I seek God´s will for a replacement of myself to lead the flock. Mike, I don´t care how faithful you might have been to the Lord, how active in the work and what a grand testimony you might have before the brethren. I would not however consider you as a candidate to any church that I have personally planted. How could I? What would that convey to the church I have pastored for x amount of years? Would that not necessarily be a major contradiction of myself before the flock? Your position by my way of understanding is dead wrong, you haven´t been able to prove anything other than the fact that your ability to distinguish between the church, the Jew and the gentile is faulty. That seems to me to be the major failing of all Rosenthal induced positions, (Yes,... he is the gran daddy of your eschatology boy and girls). Any one who confuses Matthew 24 with 1 Thess is not a very thorough Bible student., God bless, calvary
  16. Actually there is very little real debate on this forum. There is a lot of arguing but very little debate. A few years ago the Admin of this site asked for a few volunteers to debate the pre trib rapture doctrine with the stated web sites position as being PRE TRIB. i guess that has taken a back seat nowadays with post trib moderators and all. Debate is listening to a point, then responding to the point made. By saying, I think what you said may have certain failing this is why-.... Arguing is not responding to a point made and just continuing with one´s opinion. By saying__________________ and not making any real reply to the point made beforehand. '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> Notice that the opening comments state that the position of this board is PRE TRIB. pastorj and I entered into a debate that was civil, considerate and to my way of thinking, very thorough and of course I believe that pastorj and I did "win" the debate. Not much debating going on around here any more. Just a bunch of shouting each other down and snarky nonsense.
  17. Hahahahhahaha can u beleive it?? Throw a brick down a dark alley and the dog you hit is the one who yelps. Why would this miser even comment unless he´s guilty? Why would you think I am speaking of you? Wow, what pride. hahahhahahahhahha you are a complete joke
  18. You did that which most do when confronted with an opposing view. You continue to argue your point, completes ignoring the post on why the Rapture cannot be after the Trib. You just blindly went on debating yourself and espousing your view. I figured as much. God bless, calvary
  19. By no means. I am speaking to doctrine on a BAPTIST forum, not to any issues of character. I don´t know Mike. His morality or integrity are not in question by me. I signed on here because this site purported to be a BAPTIST web site for IFB like minded folks could have fellowship. I never thought I would have to wade through the nonsense of 7th Day Adventists heresies, anti mission minded tight fisted misers who won´t pay a pastor, KJB "preferred" instead of only¨¨, and now a Moderator no less comes out in opposition to a long held sound doctrine of the IFB position, Pre Trib, which can be found in the articles of faith all over the IFB world, so yes I feel a little bit disappointing in this site. It´s not what it was when I signed on. God bless, calvary
  20. Well that is pretty vague. lol I am one that believes that the Bible does in fact place the JSOC and by such placement, we can determine several other facts about end times chronology. Let me give you a few facts. I personally think this is major flaw in the Post trib or mid trib rapture position. The SINS of the Christian were judged on the cross at Calvary. Therefore, the purpose of the JSOC is not to judge SIN, but rather to judge the faithful or unfaithful SERVICE of the believer AFTER his or her conversion. Paul mentions this event not once, but twice in his letters. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Romans 14:10-12) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. (2 Corinthians 5:10, 11) So, the question that is fair and deserves an answer in place of vagaries, is If the church is to pass through the Tribulation Period or more the Biblical nomenclature, JACOBS trouble, When does the JSOC take place? I only wish to give a few thoughts as this post could ramble on for a bit. Please read, please think about the conclusion one makes as one tries to come to Biblical truth. IFB positions aside, I am only interested in what the Bible says, not what men think it teaches. 1. WHY IT CANNOT BE AFTER THE TRIB This would be impossible in light of the fact that the judgment of the beast (antichrist) takes place at the second advent, as well as the judgment of the nations. Neither of these judgments involve born again believers. First, the judgment of the beast. John wrote, And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Revelation 19:19-21) The first thing the Lord Jesus Christ does after his literal and physical return to the earth is to judge the man of sin, the son of perdition. Paul said, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (2 Thessalonians 2:8-10) Daniel spoke of this also. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. (Daniel 7:9-12) Some have misunderstood that Daniel’s vision pertains to the White Throne Judgment (WTJ), but this is impossible because the beast is “given to the burning flame, matching John’s account in Revelation 19. Secondly, the Lord Jesus Christ will judge the nations after he judges the beast. Matthew said, When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:31-46) These are the Gentile nations and they will be giving account for how they treated Jesus’ brethren (literal and physical Jews) during the Tribulation. Their salvation and entry into the millennial kingdom is based upon their WORKS and whether they helped the Jews during Daniel’s 70th week or not. This cannot be applied to anyone in the church, the body of Christ, no matter what kind of theological gymnastics are attempted. There isn’t a born again member of the body of Christ within 50 chapters of these verses in either direction. Also, Mike, you stated that non one has ever given you satisfaction on Rev 14:14 and on. Really? You mean that you can´t see the simple differences between Rev 14 and 1 Thess 4? In Rev there are TRUMPETS not a TRUMP, which is the sound of a trumpet. There are no TRUMPETS in 1 Thess 4. Dispensational truth is in its most basic thought, THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ARE NOT THE SAME, no matter how much we desire them to be. So, I posted 1 reason why the rapture cannot be during or after the Trib, gave you several scriptures to think about. If you answer, please address my verses - please do not just simply present your reasoning why you think the Pre Trib position is wrong, but address my post, line by line. Anything other that that is just mere arguing. One thing this board has caused me to shy away from it is too much arguing and posturing, but very little real debate. And the fact the Brother Matt allows fools to run amok here. I mean, with all due respect, a fellow who does not hold the Pre Trib position is a moderator on this site?? (shaking head in disbelief) Seriously Matt? Where do you draw the line brother? God bless. calvary
  21. My question to you Mike would be help me to understand when the Judgment Seat of Christ will take place, in your system? Seems to me that most of the papers I have read about this can´t answer the question without really doing some fancy footwork, loose interpretations and ignoring of some pretty clear passages. So, when does the Judgement Seat of Christ take place in your system of teaching? God bless, calvary (hey..... I asked Mike, so let´s give him a chance to answer me...... I really don´t care to muddle up the threads with seventeen debates going on at once with seventeen folks that I could prOBably care less about what they think.... so a little respect to my request, .....Mike, would love an answer - thank you)
  22. Your opinion the contrary is of no value. I have met folks like you over the years. I just quoted Jesus from the Greek NT who used the word hades and yet you cavil. After having been proved to be error, you yet argue and act more like a fool than before. Pride is an amazing testament to the foolishness of a ma´s heart. You would be entertaining if you weren´t so pathetic. Leave it alone fool, you´re wrong, I presented evidence that is irrefutable that you are, so just bow out like a good little boy and run along.......
  23. So when the TR says, Kagó de ególegó hoti hou ei Petros kai epi houtos ho petra oikodomeó ego ten ekklesía kai pulé hades ou katischuó ego. (Mateo 16:18) What Jesus was trying to convey to us is that a greek god would not be able to harm the church?? Sure, like I said, it really doesn´t matter one iota what you believe the word hades to mean. In the TR it means hell, it means a place and it is a real word that does not even in the slightest bit denote a mythological underworld where some false god sits and rules as far as the word of God in concerned. Like I said, go back and play with the kiddies in the sand box. The 1960 is fine wherever it says hades in place of Infierno, they are one and the same. God bless, calvary
  24. Your statement that I am racists was in the context of translating my Spanish in the post, you did not refer to my gringo or white guy comments. Never heard of ROBert breaker, yet you read the book baout the R1602, which is his baby.... sure....... ok..... whatever..... If all I had was my TR, then I would read hades everywhere you want it to say hell, doesn´t matter what you think about greek mythology, or what greek mythology makes hades out to be. In the word of God the word HADES is used where we translate it as hell. Like it or not, hades is not a 3rd world in my greek Bible. So, your opinion notwithstanding, it makes no difference what you believe hades to be or what any greek myth believes it to be. Hades is a real word, used in a real Bible to designate a real pace of suffering. Why would someone change Infierno to hades? Don´t know, but it changes nothing as far as the doctrine of eternal punishment is concerned, so your straw man about a word being translated incorrectly holds no water, especially when your own mastery of said language appears to be lacking. Run along sonny, go back and play with the kiddies in the sand box, that´s more your speed. There is no error in the 1960´s use of the word hades over infierno. None whatsoever. God bless, calvary
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