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Standing Firm In Christ

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  1. I ain't worried about enemies. The Lord is on my side. Lookng through the 613 Levitical laws, I find very few dealing with tithes, and all that dealt with tithes had to do with produce or livestock. None had any to do with money except to sell tithes for silver if tithes for silver if they were too heavy and repurchase tithes once at the place God sent one. Also tithes were not taken anywhere on 3rd and 6th year (wonder how pastors get by with telling congregation to break that one?). Also that tithes were to be eaten by the priest and the tither. How come the pro-tithers don't preach or adhere to that one too? Looks like they throw out the Biblical principles of tithing and write their own rules. That can make one enemies with God which is far worse than being enemy of man.
  2. I am referring to any pastor that preaches tithing of money is demanded.
  3. Nasty? not nasty in the least. It is truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. And why do you think I have not already taken it to the Lord in prayer?? It is He who has been revealing the truth to me of tithing not being money. Much study of His Holy Word and prayer has shown me this truth.
  4. true. But it is quite evident that money is not the firstfruits that God desires. My mother gave 10% of her income the 48 years I have been living, and she remains poor. Contrary to Scripture stating her barns would be full. Proves firstfruits is not money. Pastors fleece the poor and get richer while the poor get poorer.
  5. I am unable to care for my mother. I am drawing disability myself due to blood problems and blindness. So don't try to put the guilt of caring for my mother on me. I do what I am able to do. One must take care of family first; which I do my best at. If one is taking money to the Church and letting his family go hungry, or bills unpaid, Paul declares that one to be worse than an infidel. 1 Timothy 5:8 That again shows the firstfruits the Lord requires is not one's money.
  6. Yer making too many errors. In your zeal to be right, you reprimand me for something that you should not have. Above, I posted at 8:17 and you edited your prior post at 8:29 from 1 Corinthians 8 to say 1 Corinthians 9 admitting a typo. But then, you blast me for not reading that it had been changed directly after my 8:17 post. Is it that important to you to be right that you must falsely accuse me?
  7. While 1 Corinthians 9 is referring to the minister being provided for, it is not speaking monetarily. It was not monetarily in the OT... and the OT was what Paul was referring to. Verse 10 shows clearly what that provision is: 1 Corinthians 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. What is the one plowing for? A crop! What is the one threshing hoping for? Good grain! Tithing was not money. To make that refer to money is simply to disregard the Old Testament.
  8. Hebrews does speak of tithing... to the Levitical priesthood. The Levitical priesthood is no more. There is no command to give to other priesthood. As to Solomon's mention of honoring the Lord with our substance and our increase, he was speaking of grain, not money. So shall thy barns be filled with plenty. Plenty of what? Plenty to eat. Bring the tithes (grain) into the storehouse (silo or barn) that there may be meat (food) in my house. And if Proverbs 3:9,10 included money as tithe, then God has lied. My mother tithed money all her life. I figured out last night in the last 10 years alone, she has given the Church more than 15,000 dollars. She does not own a house, nor land. She lives in her sister's house. She is living on a monthly Social Security check because the church she tithes to does not even follow biblical principal to take care of the widows. Sounds like her barns are full, right? I read what you wrote. and at the time I was responding, it still said Chapter 8 talked about tithes. later you mentioned chapter 9, but again you are wrong. Chapter 9 is not about tithes of money either.
  9. how in the world do you get tithing out of 1 Corinthians 8. It is speaking about the eating of meat offered to idols. You are grasping for something that is not there, Jerry.
  10. 1 Corinthians 8 does not refer to OT tithing. Tithing is only mentioned in the NT by Jesus Christ... and that of herbs, no mention of money for tithes at all. Tithing money is not Biblical As to Jacob, Jacob vowed a vow, it was not a command of God. The Word of God never says money was included. There were conditions set forth before Jacob would give that tenth he promised. Apparently 20 years later the conditions were met, for Jacob returned 20 years later and built an altar. There is no indication God even had any kind of sect in operation where Jacob could give that tithe - much less a weekly tithe. After building the promised ?house of God,? who stood at the pulpit? There was no Levitical priesthood (only Melchizedek?s), or any other God-ordained religious group in operation that we are made aware of. If Jacob built that house of God on that altar of stone (which he probably did), and did support it with a continual tenth (which we do not know if he did), who populated ?the pulpit?? Was it some peoples God did not tell us about? Was it a people God was pleased with? Did this become ?the church? from which Balaam arose hundreds of years later? But, if Balaam was the long term fruit of Jacob?s church ... well, you get the picture. What I am trying to say is this, there really is no grounds for using Jacob's vow and fulfillment of that vow as some kind of set principle for us to ?tithe? every week to a local church. A conditional vow? Get real.!
  11. just wondering if you are afraid to admit that money was not tithes for fear that someone from your church might stop bringing in their demanded of the pastor and not God 10%?
  12. all are Gods, but you still have not proven that money was used for tithes. you only chasing rabbit trails to evade the truth
  13. Funny, I can take my wife's silver ring and trade it for guess what??? You guessed it... Money. the so called paper that is worthless. BTW, if the dollar is not backed by anything as you think, why do you insist any amount of something that is not worth anything belongs to God.?
  14. you are right, your post is silly. The FRN is money and is equal to an amount of silver which is also money. And as you said the FRN is paper and a promise. A promise is a backing. What do you think that promise is backed with? For our country, it may be more paper, or silver (coins), for other countrys, the same.
  15. The produce argument is Biblical. Deuteronomy 14 clearly shows that tithes were paid with produce. You are right, your last post was silly.
  16. When you telll the people they must tithe 10% of their finances, you are putting a yoke of bondage on the people. You are also lying to them, as God's Word never requires 10% of their money. 2 Corinthians 9 says one should give as he purposes in his heart. That can be 10%, or it could be more or even less. And if it is even 1% and given cheerfully, it is accepted of God.
  17. Again, none of this in the New Testament is tithes. As to if they gave according to the New Testament they would give more than 10%, I disagree. Paul said "let every man give as he purposeth in his own heart.' That does not sound like give more than 10%. Some did give more, some gave all. But once Salvation was opened to the Gentiles, Paul preached a different message. Give as you wish... cheerfully!. Don't put a yoke of bondage on the necks of the people. Preach that which Scripture declares for the Believer.
  18. FRN are money, which Scripture declares to be used for offering. You really are grasping.
  19. Money in Hebrew meant silver. but in Greek, it was oft relating to a coin... a drachma, a stander, etc. New Testament offerings were often coins. Zeal, You cannot bring the money in verse 19 of Leviticus which is speaking about offerings into verse 31 and forward. Those are tithes. and it is clear from Deuteronomy that if tithes were changed to money form, the money was to be changed back to tithes form later. Money was not tithes.
  20. 2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. I believe it is quite clear. There is no set amount. It is as a man purposes to give, not what someone demands he give. As I said previously... if one feels he needs to give 10%, fine. no, great! But don't claim that 10% is tithes. Biblical tithes was never money.
  21. Things to think about: Only one Bible author wrote commands about the tithe - its purpose, amount and procedures. That person was Moses. In Malachi, God was speaking and only stating the commands of the Law. The third and sixth year tithe was not for the Congregation, nor for the priests. It was for the widows, the orphans, and the Levites who came to your property for the tithes... and they ate it there. Did they eat money? The first, second, fourth and fifth year tithes were taken to a designated place, which eventually became Jerusalem. There was no seventh year tithe. There was no fiftieth year tithe either as that was the year of Jubilee. Abram's tithe to Melchisadek was 10% of the choicest of spoils that Abram did not even want to keep himself. He did not tithe any of his own possessions. There are many other truths concerning tithes of Old Testament times that I could post, but these alone show that the tithe preaching done in most Churches today is not lining up with God's Word at all. Seth, Those verses are speaking of offerings, not tithes.
  22. Not one New Testament saint... not even the Lord Jesus Christ Himself taught or preached a tithe of money. That speaks volumes in itself. Jesus commended the Pharisees for tithing cummim, rue, herbs. Yet He never mentioned that they tithed money. He could have added that five-letter word in there, but he didn't. Why did Peter not rebuke those who were selling their lands and bringing the price to him by telling them, 'Now you know 10% of this money goes to the Lord'? Tithing was not money. And as I pointed out earlier... Every third year, the tithing was not taken anywhere. It went to widows, orphans and the Levites. And they came to your property for it, you did not take it to them. Yet the churches will try to put you on a guilt trip if you tell them you decided to give the money to a poor couple or a orphanage instead of bringing it to them. Be honest folks.
  23. Many times I have given more than 10%, I give what God lays on my heart to give. God loveth a cheerful giver. He does not want your money if you are giving it because you feel you have to (I gotta tithe 10%), or if you are upset at even giving a penny. Not of compulsion, or grudgingly. Tithing was never money. If tithes were exchanged for money, the money was to be used to buy produce (corn, wheat, oil, etc.) back to tithe with. When you hound your people and put them under a burden to tithe 10% of their money, do you tell them to obey the other 612 Levitical laws of the Old Testament? He that is guilty of one is guilty of all. Do you have a battlement on your roof? Do all your congregants? What about clothing? is it all of one material? You know that is Levitical law as well. If you are going to put them under the bondage of tithing, stand in your pulpits and demand they build battlements, wear clothing according to Levitical standards, etc. All 612 must be demanded if you are going to insist on one. But even if you can get them to obey the 612, if you are telling them the tithe is of their money, you are causing them to break the tithe law... it was never money.
  24. If any twisting is being done, it is by the preachers who say God demands our money for tithes. Scripture nowhere declares such idiocy... nowhere! Money is mentioned for offerings, btw, not just silver and gold.
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