Standing Firm In Christ

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Imagine that!  Use money acquired from sales to purchase a sword instead of tithing.  My, my, my.

To insist that money was to be tithed is to make Jesus a transgressor of the Law., and his Him teaching others to transgress the Law

Matthew 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
Matthew 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Matthew 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
Matthew 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Give the coin to the Roman Government instead of tithing it?  Yikes! 

Sorry, but money was not tithed.  Nor was "any increase that came into the hand."  God said His tithe was agricultural, and that it was to be eaten. 

 

1 Corinthians 9, when read in context, is speaking of support through food and lodging for Apostles.

Apostles were separated from the Church and sent to preach to a lost and dying world.  They deserved support for their missionary journeys.

Paul was not speaking of support through monetary income tithing.  Monetary income tithing was never a concept in the word of God.

Not once in the word of God is there a command, or instruction, for one to tithe one's monetary income in the word of God.  One has to add to the word of God to say 1 Corinthians 9 (or any other chapter in the Bible) is speaking of tithing one's monetary income to the House of God.
 

2 hours ago, Alan said:

 

1 Corinthians 9:5-14 says, “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? for it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it together for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.”

 

The Apostle Paul quoted the Old Testament Law as his authority. “Thou shall not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.” Deuteronomy 25:4 The authority for the church receiving the tithes and offerings from the saints in the New Testament is a precept of Melchizedek and the Levites receiving the tithes and offerings from the saints in the Old Testament. “But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.” Deuteronomy 18:24

 

The Apostle Paul, and the other apostles, are examples of men in the ministry in the New Testament church. The apostles had the power, the authority, to receive, as the Levites in the Old Testament, the tithes and offerings to live on and take care of the ministry, and function, of the local New Testament Church, or the local assembly. In a reference to the bishop, or pastor, being the elder of the church, the Apostle Paul reiterated this ordinance in 1 Timothy 5:17, “Let the elders that rule well be counted double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.”

 

Besides quoting the law in Deuteronomy 25:5 Paul the apostle quoted the Lord Jesus, “And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.” Luke 10:7 So, we not only have the precepts of the Old Testament on giving the tithes and offerings for the furtherance of the ministry of the church, but Paul used the words of the Lord Jesus, the founder of the church, as a second authority, in the giving of the tithes and offerings as the means of furthering the ministry of the church.

 

God has ordained that the ministry of the New Testament Church is maintained by the tithes and offerings of the saints as Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham, as Jacob gave tithes, and as the Levites received the tithes and the offerings of the worshipers in the temple in the Old Testament. The word “tithe,” means ten per cent. It can be ten percent of money, animals, grain, or any physical object.

 

Psalm 119:128, “Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.” The precept, not a command, of giving tithes and offerings is seen in the life of Abraham and Jacob before the law. Abraham willingly gave a tithe to Melchizedek. The tithe given to Melchizedek was a tithe and not a tax. Jacob, Genesis 28:20-22, willingly made a vow to tithe.

 

In the law of Moses the precept of giving tithes and offerings was given to the Jews for the service of the Temple by the Levites. In the New Testament church, the precept of giving tithes and offerings for the work of the ministry is an ordinance of God. The giving of the tithes and offerings by God's people, in any age, is a good and right precept. “I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee.” Psalm 119:168

 

This ordinance is a direct command from God to the saints in the New Testament Church. And, this ordinance does not mean in any sense of the word that we are under the law, are to sacrifice animals, nor keep the other commandments of the ceremonial law. According to Hebrews 8:4-13, 9:1-23 and 10:1-11, the ordinances of the temple service and sacrifices are done away in the New Testament church. Therefore, since the New Testament saint is not to offer animal sacrifices, or grain, as an offering, as according to the law of Moses, money is the most common, and appropriate, means of tithing.

 

The precepts, or principals, of tithes and offerings are ordained by God Himself as the means that the carnal, or physical, work of the church is to be maintained as according to the Old Testament. As with the temple in the Old Testament, the carnal, or physical, work off the New Testament church includes: the financial offerings for the minister, the physical upkeep of any church building, the purchase of property for the physical building(s) of the church, missions, evangelism, tract ministries, and those ministries under the direct leadership of the pastor. This precept, or principle, is by the direct ordinance of God.

 

 

 

The context o 1 Corinthians 9 is the right of Apostles for food and lodging.  It's n't speaking of tithes.

But, for the sake of an argument, let's just suppose Paul was speaking of tithes.  He couldn't have been speaking of tithes of one's monetary income, for tithes of  monetary income weren't ever taught in any of the previous chapters of the Bible.

And Paul would have used the Greek "apodekato'o" had he been speaking of tithes. 

Jesus was not telling the Disciples to take tithes in Luke 10:7.  They were not Levites... they had no authority to receive tithes.

Using Luke 10:7 as proof-text that preachers are authorized to receive tithes is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

And again, there is not one verse in the entire Bible that says tithing of monetary income is required... either of ancient Israel... or of the New Covenant Church.



 

Actually, I do not "call" pastors "they handle the word of God deceitfully".  I bring a charge against them for handling the word of God deceitfully. 

And the word of God fully supports the charge I bring against them.

When I answered the call to preach in 1988, I answered the call to preach the word... not man's opinion.  The word of God reveals that those pastors' who use Malachi 3:8-10 or any other Old Testament Scripture or passage that describes tithing as "proof-text" that the saved in Christ today are required to tithe their monetary income in the New Covenant  Church, to be handling the word of God deceitfully.

Not once in the entire Bible is anyone told to tithe their monetary income to the House of God... not once.  And yet, so many pastors continue to deceive with their using Scripture out of context to teach the monetary tithe requirement that is totally foreign to the word of God.

Shame on pastors that deceitfully use passages that speak of an agricultural tithe required of the children of Israel to teach a monetary tithe of their congregations today.  They are not rightly dividing the word of truth.

And shame on pastors that defend the deceitful pastors.

If people are going to meet in a building, then certainly, finances will be needed for the maintenance of the building,... no doubt. 

Interestingly, all of the "giving" seen in the post-crucifixion texts clearly show the giving was for people who lacked, not for building maintenance.  Of course, in the first century A.D., there were no electric bills, telephone bills, et.al..

My stand, as far as utilities for the building are concerned is, when a bill comes in, tell the congregation how much the bill is.  Tell them to consider helping to meet the bill so that the amenities they are enjoying can continue.  Assure them that you do not mean to take away from what is needed for their own families, but that, if they have something they can contribute, it will be most appreciated.

Then, exercise faith that God will move in the hearts of His people.  Sometimes, I believe that the monetary tithe doctrine shows, and often results in, a lack of faith.  People don't have to trust God to move hearts if the know  that certain people are already dedicated to yielding to the lie.  That money is assured each month. 

It is then that the faith is seen in man,... not in God.

On 6/29/2017 at 4:41 PM, Ukulelemike said:

I grew up in churches that taught the 10% tithe as biblical for a believer, but it wasn't until my father wrote a dissertation on it for college and later let me read it, that I began to understand it wasn't the case.

The problems we face when pushing this view, is that A: too often if believers don't feel almost forced to give, they won't. B: Too often, many believe that teaching the tithe is not for believers today, that means we are teaching people NOT to give. When I began to teach this in my church, with the full of scripture behind me, immediately i was told "If people aren't taught to tithe, they won't give!" Sadly, that is borne out to be quite true. But I won't perpetuate something I find to be untrue, for the sake of getting people to give: if they cannot be a cheerful giver, and love the Lord and the wor enough to give freely, then I must place that into God's hands.

While it is true that many who were tithing might give less, as you say, the monetary tithe requirement doctrine is indeed a lie.  And we shouldn't perpetuate a lie just to garner finances.  A church that has to lie to it's congregation in order to get them to give may as well close its doors.  God is not in such a church.

God's church is built upon the truths both written and spoken by the Apostles and the Prophets; neither of which taught a required monetary tithe.

If monetary tithing were required in the Bible, I highly doubt that the Lord Jesus Christ would have allowed a thief (Judas) to be the Treasurer of his band of Disciples.  Yet, John 12:3-4 tells us that Judas was indeed the one that carried the purse. 



 

18 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Trying to change or reason with supposed Christians that believe they must keep the law, or one part of it, is like banging your head against the wall. It does no good, even though it must be refuted.

 

 

Elephants in the circus sideshow tent are chained to a three foot metal stake which is hammered in the ground.  They are exposed to the chain from their youth.  

As as a youth, the elephant pulls constantly on the chain, trying to get away.  As it gets older, the elephant resigns itself to the belief that it can never escape that chain,... even though it could easily snap the chain as an adult and escape captivity if it tried.

Like the elephant in a circus sideshow tent with a chain on its back leg that has come to the conclusion that being held captive by that chain is his fate, many people have been conditioned to believe a lie that they must keep part, or all, of the Law that was never meant for them.

Because they hear the lies from the pulpit so much, and because they have concluded that the man in the pulpit is telling the truth, they have concluded that they must keep The Law in order to obtain Grace.

Here is how I explain the fulfillment of the Law,...

 

Covenant:  A Contract that brings about a relationship of commitment between two parties.

In rhe first part of Matthew 5:17, Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.”  Many will quote this and then will go into a tirade that basically says, “See, the Mosaic Law has not been abolished and must be observed and kept.”

These people fail to understand the last part of Matthew 5:17, which says, “but to fulfil.”

The Law was part of the Old Covenant.  Jesus came to fulfil the Law.  Anyone who has entered into a Covenant knows that once a Covenant is fulfilled, it is no longer binding.

Example: You go to a car dealership in hopes of purchasing a car.  In order to acquire the car, you enter a Covenant with the Dealership to make payments of $259 dollars a month for 5 years.  When you fulfil the Covenant you entered, the Dealership gives you the title to your car.  When the Covenant has been fulfilled and the title is legally in your possession, you do not continue to send the Dealership payments of $259.  Why not?  Because, with the Covenant being fulfilled, you are no longer obligated to make payments to the Dealership.

It is the same with the commands written in the Old Covenant.  The 613 commands, statutes and torts were written in the Old Covenant.  Jesus Himself said that He came to fulfil that unit of commandments.  Was Jesus lying when He said He came to fulfil?

Not at all!  We have many texts that reveal that Jesus completed the task He came to do.  One such example can be found in John 19:30, which records the words of Jesus Christ in His final hour on the cross, saying: “It is finished.”

We also have the words of His servant Paul in Ephesians 2:14-15 & Colossians 2:14.  In these two texts, we read that Jesus took the ordinances and nailed them to His cross.  He abolished the commandments through His flesh.

The Covenant was fulfilled.  There is no more an obligation to keep them.  They are not binding upon the New Covenant Body of Believers in Christ Jesus.

Scripture showing we as Gentiles today are not under any part of the Mosaic Law...

Psalm 147:19 (KJV) 19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psalm 147:20 (KJV) 20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and [as for his] judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

Acts 15:5 (KJV) 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15:10 (KJV) 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Acts 15:19 (KJV) 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:20 (KJV) 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

Galatians 3:24 (KJV) 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 (KJV) 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

The book arrived this morning.  Following is just a sample of what is  in the book:

               But as to the method of execution, we do not endorse the tithe system for the following reasons:

1.  It violates the divine plan laid down in the New Testament Scriptures.

2.  It violates every principle of Church polity upon which all our churches stand.

3.  If the Scriptures require our churches to tithe, we have not a single Scriptural church in our association. 

4.  It changes our giving from the realm of voluntary worship to that of slavish obedience to Law.

5.  It makes our churches tax gatherers.

6.  No Baptist Church has ever adopted it.  Should a church adopt it, they would cease to be Baptist.

7.  So far as History goes, it was never mentioned as a Christian or Church obligation until after the “great apostasy” in 250 A.D., and then only by the apostate church, and not by Baptists.  The agitation among Baptists, of this question, is of recent date.

8.  No Baptist Confession of Faith has ever mentioned it.

9.  It screens the rich, and oppresses the poor.

10.  Not one syllable in all the Bible that connects the tithe system with the churches of Jesus Christ.  When Baptists leave the Bible, they get into trouble.
-- John Harvey Grime; The Bible and History on the Tithe System, p.4; ©1934

I haveordered a book by a minister named John Harvey Grime published 1934, copyright Library of Congress, Washington DC. (Should be here toward the end of the week)  

 

The book is very interesting from what I was able to read online, and relates the History of the Tennessee Baptist Church.  At the time of its printing, Grime stated that tithes were not a Baptist Doctrine, and that should the Baptist Church begin teaching tithing, it would cease being Baptist.

Since I use Scripture to point out the fact that Melchizedek was not Jesus Christ, I hardly fit the description of a Pharisee.

Melchizedek is not Jesus Christ.  Nor was he ever Jesus Christ.  Melchizedek was a man who lived on this Earth during the time of Abram.  He was a king and priest of the Most High God.  That was not Jesus Christ.  Only a type and shadow.

Learn what types and shadows are before you falsely accuse again.

Hebrews 7 states that Melchizedek was made "LIKE UNTO" the Son of God.  He wasn't made the Son of God.  He wasn't the Son of God.  He was made "LIKE UNTO" the Son of God.

LIKE UNTO does not mean IS.

Someone needs to learn how to rightly divide the Word of Truth. When they do, they will realize that Jesus was not Melchizedek Until God removes the scales of religion, they will not see, nor will they receive that Truth. 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

"The person whom Abraham met in the preceding scripture served as the Priest of the Most High God. There cannot be two High Priests, Melchezedek and Aaron, both holding the same office. Jesus must have been the person who met Abraham, since the only interaction between God and man has been through Jesus."

Another mishandling of the Word of God.  You have taken a verse out of the epistle to Timothy and attempted to prove that Melchizedek was Jesus because Jesus was the only interaction between God and man

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

I utter the same words of Michael the archangel because of your mishandling of the Word of God... "The Lord rebuke thee."



 

You conveniently omitted Hebrews 7:4, which describes the "all" of verse 2.  Abram gave Melchizedek the "spoils". 

Abram did not tithe his own property to Melchizedek.  He tithed spoils... just as the Scripture declares.

Matthew 23:23 is not speaking of money at all.  Jesus said the scribes and Pharisees were tithing that which grew in gardens; i.e., not money.

Why do you add to God's Word to justify the false teaching of the monetary tithe requirement?  Adding to God's Word is not wise at all.

Jesus was not King of Jerusalem. His Kingdom is not of this world. Your message is faulty from the start. If one rightly divides the Word of Truth, there is no way one can conclude that Melchizedek was Jesus.

Tithes by Abram/abraham were not his own property, he lifted his hands to God that he would not claim any of the spoils as his own.

God did not give Abram the spoils. Rather, He gave Abram the victory in battle. Abram did not claim the spoils as his own. He saw them as the rightful property of Sodom, and returned them to their rightful owners.

If a thief broke into your home and stole valuables, what would you do? Would you call the police and fill out a report of the stolen items? Or would you just say, they now belong to the thief? Or how about your car? If it were stolen? Or Patriot's motorcycle?

When police are called, they set out on a mission to catch the thief in any way possible.

If they catch the thieves, and recover the stolen property, does it automatically belong to them? Do you now say it is the property of the police since they took it in battle?

I would hope not!

Abram set out on a police mission. He went to rescue his nephew Lot. In the process he recovered stolen goods. He was in the process of returning those goods to their rightful owner when he met the owner and Melchizedek in Shaveh.

It is interesting that Abram promised God that he would not keep any of Sodom's property for himself. What do you suppose would have happened if by chance Melchizedek had not been in that valley. Since Abram had promised God he would not take any of the spoils as his own, no doubt, he would have given all 100% back to their rightful owner.

Abram did not want the property. He didn't claim it. He sought no reward from the king of Sodom for returning it.

What tithes are mentioned in the Gospels? Tithes of money? Nope. Tithes of that which grows in gardens. Tithing of garden herbs and vegetables should have been tithed, as that is what the Law required. Jesus told the Pharisees not to neglect the tithing of garden produce.

Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

When one rightly divides (interprets) the Word of Truth, one cannot justify the monetary tithe requirement that is being taught in sanctuaries today.

That everyone had money is easily seen when one reads the following verses that were spoken to the children of Israel...

Numbers 18:15-16 Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs.

The firstborn child in every Israelite household had to be redeemed with five shekels of money.

So much for the theory that "Israel was mostly poor."

Acts 15 destroys this sermon. Gentile converts are not to be put under any part of the Mosaic/Levitic Law. The one who teaches Gentile converts that they are to keep the Law is tempting God.

Tithing was not one of the necessary things required of the Gentile converts in Acts, nor is it taught in the pastoral epistles.

Surely, if tithing were to be done in the Church, it would have been brought up in the pastoral epistles. But it was not. Silence speaks volumes.

Sorry Martin, but the tithe was given to Israel, not the Gentile nations.

The argument that Israel was mostly poor is foolish. Israel had a lot of money money is mentioned more than forty times before the Law was established. And in the Law, rich and poor alike had, and were required to give, money.

Farmers had money to buy back the tithe if they so chose to do. They could sell tithe for money. Slaves were bought and sold for money. Land was bought with money. Burial plots were bought with money.

Do some homework. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth. You have totally dismissed rightly dividing altogether for a doctrine that was never taught by the Church the first five centuries after the cross.

• paying tribute. http://luke 20:22-25 so if you can pay it to god.

Tribute was not tithes.

As the passage in Luke's Gospel reveals, tribute was money owed to the government.

Tithes, as revealed by several passages in the Old Testament, was food and livestock in national Israel