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LindaR

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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  1. Thanks
    LindaR got a reaction from Heir of Salvation in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    The animal tithe was not 10%, it was every 10th animal which passed under the rod:
    Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
    Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.
    Animals could not be redeemed.
  2. Thanks
    LindaR got a reaction from Standing Firm In Christ in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    The animal tithe was not 10%, it was every 10th animal which passed under the rod:
    Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
    Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.
    Animals could not be redeemed.
  3. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    Actually, it was 20%.  "A fifth part".  A fifth part is 20% of a whole number.
     
    If they wanted a bushel of barley back, they paid the assessed value of that bushel plus an additional 20% of the assessed value.
     
    The crop tithe, whether in part or in whole, was redeemable.  However, verse 33 shows the animal tithe could not be redeemed.
  4. Thanks
    LindaR got a reaction from Heir of Salvation in Law and Grace   
     
    The Relationship of the Christian to the Law and Grace
    Before the Mosaic Law was instituted at Mt. Sinai, there were people who lived righteous lives in conformity to God's moral absolutes.
    Abel - Hebrews 11:4
    Enoch -  Genesis 5:22, 24; Hebrews 11:5
    Noah - Genesis 6:9; Ezekiel 14:14, 20
    Job - Job 1:8; 2:3; Ezekiel 14:14, 20
    The fact that some people lived righteous lives in conformity to God's moral absolutes before the Mosaic Law was instituted indicates two things:
    People can be related to the eternal, unchangeable, moral absolutes of God without being under the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law; and it is possible to be free from the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law without being lawless.
    Prior to Mount Sinai, God administered His moral absolutes over all mankind in ways other than through the Mosaic Law.  From Mount Sinai to the cross of Jesus Christ, He administered His moral absolutes over Israel through the Mosaic Law.  Since the time of the cross, God has been administering His eternal absolutes over all of mankind in a way which is different from and superior to the Mosaic Law.  The moral absolutes have not changed, but the way of God's  administering those absolutes has changed.  For example, idolatry and adultery have been just as wrong in God's sight since the time of the cross as they were when the Mosaic Law was in effect, but since the cross, God has not required the death penalty for those sins (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) as He did when the Mosaic Law was in effect (Exodus 22:20; Leviticus 20:10).  The new, superior way of God's administering His moral absolutes is called grace.
    Freedom from the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law does not involve freedom from the eternal, unchangeable moral absolutes of God.  It only involves freedom from one way of God's administering His absolutes--namely through the Mosaic Law.  If one is under God's grace, in administering His eternal, unchangeable, moral absolutes, one will not be lawless.
    Although the Mosaic Law had three aspects (civil, ceremonial, and moral), it functioned as an indivisible unit.  Thus, to place oneself under one aspect of the Mosaic Law is to obligate oneself to be under the entire Law.  James declared "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" (James 2:10).  James was asserting that the breaking of only one part of the Mosaic Law made a person guilty of breaking the entire Law.  The only way this could be true was if the Mosaic Law were an indivisible unit.
    The fact that the Mosaic Law was indivisible by nature has a strong implication concerning the relationship of the Christian to the Mosaic Law.  The implication is that since the Mosaic Law as indivisible by nature, the Christian who places himself under its moral aspect obligates himself to keep every aspect of the Law (the civil, ceremonial and moral). (Galatians 3:10) 
    Source: There Really Is A Difference: A Comparison of Covenant and Dispensational Theology by Renald E. Showers (excerpts from chapter 16, The Relationship of the Christian to Law and Grace, pg. 187-190)
  5. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Ronda in Law and Grace   
    Romans 3:
    19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
    So my answer is...by the law is the knowledge of sin (and God's laws are written on our hearts, we are without excuse). But Jesus justified us (saved/bride/church) by HIS grace through redemption in Himself... the perfect sinless sacrifice to pay for our sins (all who accept His gift). 
  6. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to trapperhoney in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    Christ and the widow were still under the Law.
    2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
    If we are truly free from the Law then we are free from every aspect of it, otherwise we are not under grace.  Paul is pretty clear about that in his writings.  It is my personal conviction that it is between each individual and God as to what they are to give.  Some are convicted to give 10% of their income which is often referred to as tithing.  Some are convicted to give more.  But sometimes giving, especially "tithing" can be a cop out.  People think because they give their 10% then they have done their duty.  God really doesn't need our money, He wants our service.  Christ got his tax money from a fish's mouth.  God will provide for his faithful servants.  I also think that by harping on the 10% it also gives people excuses to ignore the Holy Spirit when he is convicting them to give more.  We need to quit trying to play the Holy Spirit, get out of his way and let Him work.  The point it, pray about it and what God convicts you to do, follow it.
  7. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    The passage does not say anything about Jesus conmmending the widow.
    1 Timothy 5 says that if  man provides not for his own household he has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel.
    I highly doubt Jesus was commending the widow for denying her own household needs.
     
    He was demonstrating how a spiritually bankrupt system was physically bankrupting widows, devouring their houses by taking their provision.
     
  8. Thanks
    LindaR got a reaction from trapperhoney in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    Amen Bro John! 
    The Biblical tithe was never money....it was always agricultural and God gave that command to tithe only to the children of Israel (Leviticus 27:30-34; Psalms 147:19-20).  The Levites (sons of Levi) were the only people who were authorized to receive/take the Levitical tithes because they (the sons of Levi) had no inheritance ....the tithe was their inheritance (Numbers 18:20-26).

    So when did God change the Levitical tithe from agricultural to monetary?  Our biblical guideline for giving is grace, not compulsion or coercion.
    2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
     
  9. Thanks
    LindaR got a reaction from Standing Firm In Christ in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    Amen Bro John! 
    The Biblical tithe was never money....it was always agricultural and God gave that command to tithe only to the children of Israel (Leviticus 27:30-34; Psalms 147:19-20).  The Levites (sons of Levi) were the only people who were authorized to receive/take the Levitical tithes because they (the sons of Levi) had no inheritance ....the tithe was their inheritance (Numbers 18:20-26).

    So when did God change the Levitical tithe from agricultural to monetary?  Our biblical guideline for giving is grace, not compulsion or coercion.
    2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
     
  10. Thanks
    LindaR got a reaction from John81 in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    Amen Bro John! 
    The Biblical tithe was never money....it was always agricultural and God gave that command to tithe only to the children of Israel (Leviticus 27:30-34; Psalms 147:19-20).  The Levites (sons of Levi) were the only people who were authorized to receive/take the Levitical tithes because they (the sons of Levi) had no inheritance ....the tithe was their inheritance (Numbers 18:20-26).

    So when did God change the Levitical tithe from agricultural to monetary?  Our biblical guideline for giving is grace, not compulsion or coercion.
    2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
     
  11. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    HoS,
     
    Spot on, except for one line....
    Actually, they had to surrender the tithe.  Then they had the option of buying it back if they so chose to do.
     
     Leviticus 27:31 states, "And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add a fifth part thereto."
    The word "redeem" means "to buy back".  The farmer could not buy back something he had not first surrendered.  He tithed first. Then, he redeemed the tithe if he so chose to do.  
  12. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to John81 in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    If a person studies Christian giving, as put forth in the New Testament which is for Christian living, it's very clear there is no tithe requirement.
    Tithe commandments were under the Old Testament (Covenant) for Israel. Unless a person believes in replacement theology, that the church has replaced Israel and therefore the commands to Israel apply to the church, there is no basis anywhere in Scripture to command a Christian to tithe.
  13. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Heir of Salvation in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    1.) It is unlikely he "tithed" by "grace".
    Many Bible Dictionaries, commentaries and historical documents will tell you  that he "tithed" under compulsion as was a generally accepted tax owed on spoils of war in the Canaanite region of his day.  It was common practice to render a 10 percentile to the local ruling Priest-king.
    The Old Testament Law did not require 10% from spoils of war.  It required ( I believe) 1% of spoils of war.
    2.) He did  not "tithe" in the sense you mean (as 10% of his income).  He ONE TIME rendered exactly 10% of certain spoils to 1 person at one time.  And he kept nothing else of the spoils.  Scripture nowhere records him doing anything else Nothing suggests it was a lifelong habit off of his income and regular......
    To assume as much is CLEARLY adding to the text.
    to say that only a tithe is from agricultural is adding to the scriptures.
    Absolutely not..........Every time the tithe is commanded or spoken of it is in reference to Agricultural products ONLY.....To suggest money even could be used is an assumption at best or eisegesis at worst.
    B.T.W......................You couldn't even bring Agricultural products from outside the land of Israel either........They wouldn't have accepted it.  
    One could even BUY BACK their tithe at a 5% mark-up with money if they needed the agricultural products (probably for the next years' seed-crop).......ONLY agricultural products could be bought-back with money.  And one ws permitted to not surrender their tithe if they wished to pay the mark-up on it..... No one would do that with money.
    Nobody coerced him to tithe, he titihed on his own volition.
    A tithe is, and always is, compulsory...    It's a law which must be obeyed whether one does it willingly, lovingly, or under absolute compulsion....
    "Tithing" is a LAW.....Period.  Whether it is incumbent upon Christians or only Old-Testament Jews, one must obey it.  I assure you though, nothing suggests in the Old Testament that "grace" is anywhere in view.
    God loves the "cheerful" giver..............He demanded the absolutely obedient tither.  Tithing was a tax levied upon a Theocratic society.  If you didn't render it....the O.T. equivalent of the IRS would be knocking at your door.  Nothing grace about it.
    Nowhere in Leviticus 27:30-33 does God say, "only agricultural products."
    That's exactly what it says.  It explains it in detail...and the part where you could NOT pay  in Agricultural produce.....is explained in literally the very verse you quoted.....read VS. 31 please:
    "And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof "
    Question:  Would a person wish to "redeem" any of his monetary "tithe" of 10% by adding a 5% markup????????
    I want to be that guy's banker............Clearly, it was for Agricultural products and a tither could take back some of his produce at a 5% mark-up (of money) in order to preserve seed-crop.
    Not everybody was a farmer in the land of Israel
    Most weren't.....they didn't tithe either.  They gave offerings and paid a Temple tax. (which was monetary)...when Jesus and his disciples couldn't come up with it....Jesus put the coinage in a fish's mouth.  That wasn't a tithe.
    Abraham, by grace tithed, before the Law
    Wrong.  "ABRAM"  as a still un-circumcised Canaanite rendered the commonly required 10% tax/tithe of war spoils to the local Priest-king..........That is not "TITHING" off of his regular income.  To say he rendered 10% of his income off of his own flocks and herds as a habit is nowhere suggested..... that is "adding" to Scripture and an unwarranted assumption.  It's not in the text.
    And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram
    said unto Abram,
    I have made Abram rich:
    The point at which "Abram" was re-named "Abraham" is incredibly critical to understanding Scripture.  Jews understand this.
    There is not onle word in hebrews 7 that even mentions the word 'agricultural.'
    Of course not....It was written to Hebrews......none of whom would have thought for 1/1billionth of one second that a "tithe" included money. 
    Only Gentiles of the last 200 years would have suggested as much.  The writer of Hebrews was addressing Jews.  ALL Hebrews knew what the tithe was.  And they know it isn't money.................They still know that actually. Ask any Orthodox Jew or any Messianic Jew today.  It floors them that Gentile Christians teach that we should "tithe" to the local Church.
    That Abraham only tithed one time is a undue assumption nowhere proven by any scripture.
    That's desperate.....................You can't prove a negative assertion.
    ABRAM (not Abraham) "tithed" one time.......and one time only.  To suggest that someone somehow "show" that he DIDN'T do it at other points is fallacious and question-begging.  He didn't do it.  He did one time...off of spoils of war and didn't keep anything else for himself, to even suggest otherwise is to invent more occurrences out of whole-cloth.  That's not in the text.
     
     
  14. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    Malachi’s instruction to prove God by bringing the tithes into the storehouse was not speaking of a monetary tithe. It was speaking of an agricultural tithe; the tithe required of the children of Israel at the time. (see Leviticus 27:30-33)
    It had nothing to do with the New Testament Church whatsoever. The Priests of Israel were the ones God was speaking to. They had robbed God, and God wanted His tithes brought back to the storehouse from which they were removed. (cross reference Nehemiah 13:1-12)
    Pastors have misused Malachi 3:8-10 and abused the flock over which God had made them overseers (see 1Peter 5:1-4) with a command that is totally foreign to Scripture… the command to tithe money to the New Testament Church.
    In Mark 12:39-44, Jesus warned of Scribes, religious leaders in the Temple who were robbing widow’s houses. Today, many religious leaders around the world continue not only to rob widows houses through the monetary tithe requirement lie, but they also rob every other household that believes their teaching that God requires monetary tithes of New Testament Church congregations.
    In the Bible, tithes were never commanded for the New Testament Church, never carried to the New Testament Church, never collected in the New Testament Church, and never controlled by the New Testament Church. They were the property of Levites, widows, orphans and foreigners in Israel.
    Psalm 147:19-20 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.
    In the last place that tithing is seen as a command in the Word of God, Hebrews 7, it is still the sons of Levi to whom the tithe belongs, and the tithes are still according to the Law, i.e.; agricultural.
    Pastors and Church Leadership need to repent of twisting the Word of God into a lie and begin teaching the Word as it is written.  God’s commanded holy tithe was never monetary… it was agricultural.  They need to repent of teaching for doctrine the man-made commendment of monetary tithing.
    Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.
    Matthew 15:9  But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.
     
    Many, in an attempt to justify the taking of monetary tithes from congregant's incomes, use Abram's tithe to Melchizedek as a crutch.  The claim is Abram tithed from what he gained in Battle.  However, the Genesis 14 text reveals that Abram did not gain any of those war spoils at all.  He promised God that he would not claim any as his own.  So, he did not gain those spoils at all.
     
    Besides that, Abram's tithe nowhere resembles the tithe that these preachers teach today.
     
    Abram's tithe - war spoils 
    Tithes taught today - household income
     
    Abram's tithe - one time event 
    Tithes taught today - week after week
     
    Abram's tithe - included articles of clothing
    Tithes taught today - strictly money
     
    Easy to see that the "Abraham tithed before the Law" crutch Is extremely weak when compared with the Biblical facts.
     
    And that's my position.
  15. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Tithe, for the Church or not?   
    Doesn't say "honor him with double," it says "give him double honor".  
     
    The honor is doubled.
    Paul was not telling the Church to tithe.  Else, he would have used the word for tithe, 'apodekatoo' in his instructions to Timothy.
  16. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Widow's Mites   
    Of the congregation, only landowners who had gardens, orchards, or livestock were required to tithe.  The Levites were required to tithe a tithe of the tithe.  Those who owned no land on which to farm could not tithe.  
    The poor received tithes every third and sixth year in a seven year cycle.  Years  one, two, four and five in the cycle, they more than likely survived from the corners of farms, from begging alms, and from purchasing food with those alms.  According to Exodus, both rich and poor alike had money.  They were not necessarily considered to be poor because of lack of money, but because of lack of a provider and lack of property on which they could farm.
    There were no cases where "money could be tithed."  Leviticus 27:31 makes provision for the crops tithe to be bought back if a farmer so chose to do.  However, that money he bought the tithe back with was not a tithe.  It was redemption money.  Deuteronomy 14:24-26 allowed the children of Israel to sell their Feast tithe if there was a chance of it spoiling on the journey to Jerusalem.  However, once they arrived in Jerusalem, they were to buy food and drink with that money and eat it themselves.   The Feast tithe did not go to the House of God.
    According to Numbers 18:27-28 & Nehemiah 10:37-38, the children of Israel could not even tithe to the House of God even if they wanted to.  They tithed to the Levites in the farming communities instead.  Then, in turn, the Levites took a tithe of the tithe to the lHouse of God.  
    Again, the widow's house was being robbed.  It was being robbed through the unjust scribes, who were demanding money that God never authorized.  Yes, the poor were required to give a half-shekel to the House of God yearly.  However, it was only certain of the poor that God said were required to observe this law,... males twenty years old or older..  (Exodus 30:13-15)
     
  17. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Widow's Mites   
    There is nothing in the text to infer that the widow was giving either willingly or cheerfully.  There is evidence that she was being robbed.
  18. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to No Nicolaitans in The Widow's Mites   
    We also get upset about Replacement Theology; however, much of today's church practices a form of Replacement Theology (without even realizing it). Today's church has replaced Israel in tithing...
    They have replaced who is to tithe. They have replaced what is to be tithed. They have replaced where to tithe. They have replaced why they tithe. They have replaced when they tithe. So, without even realizing what they're doing, they are practicing Replacement Theology by replacing Israel with the church in this regard.
    Bro. John...I won't go into the whole story, but that was me and my family. I take responsibility for not having studied the truth myself, but I followed that teaching for a long time and never received the promised "blessings" or the "safety from the Devourer". I'm ashamed to say it now, but I put our family through a lot because we were "supposed to tithe no matter what".
    I tithed willingly and with a good spirit. However, we just kept getting deeper and deeper in debt. Every time we turned around, we had problems arising that needed money. I kept thinking that it was a test...to see if I would trust God and continue to tithe. I'd keep tithing, and we'd just keep getting worse off. This wasn't a short-term thing either...it was over the course of years.
    We never received that "miracle check in the mail", the "God will make your car last longer", and there was no reprieve from the medical problems in our family. It finally reached a breaking point. Either God lied about tithing, or something was wrong elsewhere. I finally decided to study about tithing...from God's word...not from what I'd been told. It took a while for me to accept what I found.
    At one point, even after I had discovered what God's word says, I was still struggling. Tithing had become so ingrained into my belief. My wife asked me if we were still going to tithe the upcoming Sunday. We had again been slammed by several things needing money that week. I sat there...thinking about it...and though I had discovered the truth, I said, "We're still going to tithe." So, my family went without needs, and bills weren't paid. Even after discovering the truth, it took me a while to accept that what I had been told for so long, what had been preached as truth for so long, and what I had believed for so long...wasn't biblical.
  19. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to No Nicolaitans in The Widow's Mites   
    While I'm thankful for Bro. Alan's testimony that he has never used Malachi 3:10 as a proof text for Christian tithing...and his testimony that he agrees that Christians aren't commanded to tithe...such a testimonial is few and far between. At least it is in my area.
    In my area (and MANY other areas that I know of), pastors and teachers use any and every "tithing" passage to say that we are to tithe today. Not only that, they pull out God's command to Israel for "firstfruits" as proof that Christians are to tithe on their gross income. Their justification is that God wants your firstfruits. They haven't even studied enough to know that Israel's command for their firstfruits was completely seperate from the command(s) to tithe. God wanted Israel to offer their firstfruits AND their tithes.
    Why do we get so upset when someone uses scripture to justify a false doctrine? Such as, Hagee's false doctrine about salvation for the Jews. We get upset about the false doctrine concerning losing salvation. We get upset about SDA's false doctrine about keeping the sabbath and other commands. We get upset about women pastors. We get upset about people who deny the Trinity. We get upset about the prosperity gospel. We get upset about people who promote hyper-grace. We get upset about people who put down the KJV. We get upset about every false doctrine out there (and rightly so)...but tithing gets a pass...even though it's a false doctrine for today's church.
    If you want to see whether Christians are supposed to tithe today, it requires a little study...but it's very simple. Look for this...who, what, where, why, and when.
    Who was to tithe? What was to be tithed? Where were they to tithe? Why were they to tithe? (In other words, what were their tithes to be used for?) When were they to tithe? You'll have to read more than just the verse where tithing is mentioned. Such as, Malachi 3:10...you'll need to read the entire book of Malachi to find out who God was saying was robbing him of tithes.
    After you have discovered the answers to the who, what, where, why and when of tithing, look to see where God ever changed who, what, where, why, and when. I'll go ahead and give the answer. The who, what, where, why, and when has been changed...but not by God or his word.
    Now look to see what the New Testament says about our giving...using the same who, what, where, why, and when. Also, don't be shocked when you realize the answers. Today's church has added a lot to what God's word says and "requires" about New Testament giving.
    Now...with all of that said...I also believe that if a person desires to give 10% (or more) of their income, that's wonderful...as long as it comes from THEIR heart instead of a pastor or teacher saying we are supposed to, or God will send the Devourer to get his tithe anyway.
    Which brings up another false doctrine often promoted about church members "tithing"...used to scare people into tithing.
    God's gonna get his tithe one way or another!
    Such as...
    You might end up in the hospital, and you'll have to pay your tithe then! Your car might break down, and you'll have to pay your tithe then! Your children might get sick, and you'll have to pay your tithe then! It preaches really good! Except for the fact that God's not getting "your tithe" in such scenarios. The hospital is getting your money. The mechanic or parts store is getting your money. The doctor and pharmacy are getting your money...not God.
     
  20. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to John81 in The Widow's Mites   
    In fact, excellent post NN! The only thing I would add is that a persons heart needs to be led by the Lord after prayer regarding their giving. While some recognize this, many are very haphazard in their giving. Some give whatever they happen to grab out of their pocket with no thought (let alone prayer) at all. Others give based upon whatever formula they are working with at the time. Some out of a sense of guilt. Some hoping to receive extra financial blessings based upon how much they give. Etc.
    The point about "God's going to get His tithe one way or another" and similar arguments along the lines of "don't worry about your bills, just pay your tithe even if you can't afford it and God will take care of those bills" are some of the most egregious teachings. I know of folks who have gone into great debt trying to follow these teachings; those who have lost their homes, marriages and other things due to poor money management based upon their preachers teaching (which is so very similar to some of the prosperity preachers they are quick to call false teachers!).
    Yes, even Baptists have problems with men's traditions having become "doctrine" that is fought to preserve. I've heard preachers say if they didn't constantly preach on the tithe and push their congregation to tithe their church wouldn't have any money at all. If such were true, then it would be better to preach on salvation and growth in Christ because when a congregation is living for the Lord the church will have its needs met.
  21. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Widow's Mites   
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnOlJHTpEV8
  22. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Widow's Mites   
    I've been studying the topic of tithing both from a Biblical perspective and a historical perspective for nearly three decades now.  How about you?
    Likewise, I've been teaching stewardship for nearly three decades.
     
    in the last 27 1/2 years, I have challenged pastors on the tithe issus, even offering $1,000 and a Nissan
    Pathfinder to the one who could present any verse in the KJV that states money is to be tithed to the church.
     
    to date, none have presented that verse.
  23. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to John81 in The Widow's Mites   
    That's because there is absolutely no command for Christians to tithe anything to the church. Such isn't even suggested. Unfortunately many Baptist pastors preach otherwise.
  24. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Widow's Mites   
    You are correct, John.  
     
    What's sad is, they will pull all kind of Scripture out of context in an attempt to prove their man-made doctrine is Biblical fact.
     
    I have even heard the "Render unto God that which is God's as proof-text.  Of course, that verse had nothing to do with tithing.
     
     
  25. Thanks
    LindaR reacted to Standing Firm In Christ in The Widow's Mites   
    There is no indication in the text that the widow had a desire to give.  Nor do Jesus' words infer what you claim.
     
    no fear, guilt or intimidation from preachers?  You are incorrect.  Preachers use Malachi 3 every Sunday to guilt and manipulate congregant's giving.  Every time they use Malachi 3 to prove people should tithe to the church, they do so in error.
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